Considering washing out of doctoral races, but 65k in debt

[sjLando]

Hello, I'm in my early mid 30s now with two years left of undergrad and I'll likely be about 65k in student debt by the end of it (currently at 45k).

I've been in and out of school for a long time and finally coming to realize that I may not be able to handle the stress of doctoral level programs / selection process (MD / PhD).

I have a 3.95 across 80 some credits and am considering master's level work. I've been reading around here a lot but it's hard to get guidance.


Career goals:
- Be an expert psychotherapist with a fairly strong understanding of neuroscience, research methods, and statistical data.
- Be able to work inpatient / outpatient / maybe pp. Options to wind down later in career.
- Be able to save enough for meager retirement / family in case I'm unable to work later in life. (I'm presently single so no immediate concerns).

Current interests:
- (Far and away #1): Suicide prevention / intervention / acute settings (Have been a crisis counselor counselor for 3 years)
- Child and adolescent (Have been a teen / young adult mentor for five years)
- Also interested in substance use disorders, neurodevelopmental disorders, general practice

Concerns:
- May not be able to get out of debt / funding master's. Might be 100k or more by time I'm certified. Would be limited in selecting programs based on tuition, etc.

Military may not be an option for me, PSLF may go defunct, etc.

- Dunning-Kruger issues in my own capabilities without having doctoral level training. Being able to find the right experiences and training at a master's level. Finding the right specialty / patient population and actually being competent.


Questions:
- LCSW seems to be the most recommended, should I switch my bachelor's to SW from Psych?

This could help with getting an advanced standing at a MSW program, but then I'd have even less psychology experience compared to LPC/LMHC.

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[futureapppsy2]

OP, I moved your post to the doctoral forum, as it seems to straddle both options.

 

[R. Matey]

Good questions. There are very few M.A./M.S. counseling programs that provide funding. Two that I know of off hand are Western Washington University and Illinois State University, but I think there are a few others. Search state schools close to you to see if you can find others. Obviously, they're more competitive than your typical unfunded program, but you have a good GPA so you may have a shot. It will likely require relocating for a few years. The advantage to programs like these is that some are embedded in psych departments so you may have access to resources to supplement your training in the manner you desire.

As I'm sure you've read, the disadvantage to training as a counselor is that social workers are still more favored in hospital settings mainly, but like I've said before, I do think the gap is narrowing. That said, it is a risk. Social workers have had better luck with Medicare billing in some states, but the ACA is working hard to change that. You will also need to supplement your master's level training post-degree with training in evidenced based practice as many counseling programs do not emphasize this to a sufficient degree that is necessary for independent practice.

If you choose social work, I do think that switching to a BSW makes sense since graduate tuition is typically more expensive. You can minor in psych and take classes of interest to you at the undergraduate level and then supplement your training post-MSW with training in evidenced based practice. Given your interests, this path probably makes the most sense since social workers are favored in hospitals settings that are more likely to provide these didactic experiences. Social Workers do tend to make slightly more than LMHCs/LPCs because of the historic advantages, but this is largely dependent on the setting.

 

[sjLando]

OP, I moved your post to the doctoral forum, as it seems to straddle both options.

Thanks.

I've never envisioned myself outside of doctoral work, but my own anxiety issues under severe academic load may be more chronic than I thought, and with many of my family nearing end of life / poor health it feels like it could be a grenade that goes off.

 

[Sanman]

You have two years left of undergrad? Are you working your way through or did you start late? Did you mostly complete gen ed or major requirements?

My left field suggestion, change your major to nursing and get an RN. Many mental health nurses working in suicide prevention and making counselor level money. You could also qualify for PSLF or EDRP. Not what you might think of as nursing, but here is a job example:

Registered Nurse BHIP Care Coordinator

Graduate training decisions can always happen after you have some work experience and a bit of money in the bank.

 

[MAClinician]

Good questions. There are very few M.A./M.S. counseling programs that provide funding. Two that I know of off hand are Western Washington University and Illinois State University, but I think there are a few others. Search state schools close to you to see if you can find others. Obviously, they're more competitive than your typical unfunded program, but you have a good GPA so you may have a shot. It will likely require relocating for a few years. The advantage to programs like these is that some are embedded in psych departments so you may have access to resources to supplement your training in the manner you desire.

As I'm sure you've read, the disadvantage to training as a counselor is that social workers are still more favored in hospital settings mainly, but like I've said before, I do think the gap is narrowing. That said, it is a risk. Social workers have had better luck with Medicare billing in some states, but the ACA is working hard to change that. You will also need to supplement your master's level training post-degree with training in evidenced based practice as many counseling programs do not emphasize this to a sufficient degree that is necessary for independent practice.

If you choose social work, I do think that switching to a BSW makes sense since graduate tuition is typically more expensive. You can minor in psych and take classes of interest to you at the undergraduate level and then supplement your training post-MSW with training in evidenced based practice. Given your interests, this path probably makes the most sense since social workers are favored in hospitals settings that are more likely to provide these didactic experiences. Social Workers do tend to make slightly more than LMHCs/LPCs because of the historic advantages, but this is largely dependent on the setting.

Congress passed and Biden signed a bill back in December that now will allow LPC/LMHC be Medicare providers, but it does not take effect until 2024. So opportunities are increasing.

OP, you can also check to see if any masters programs at schools offer some funding. I completed a CAGS program and the school offered up to 2 years of graduate assistantships but I was applying with students from all over the university. I was able to secure the position 2 years in a row and it helped. It also might be worth exploring states that have loan repayment programs for working in underserved or community settings. My state has earmarked funding for loan repayment for MH professionals who agree to work 4 years in a community mental health center. A former coworker got a scholarship in CA for his MSW but he had to agree to work in the CA child welfare system for 2 years post degree. So there are some options out there.

 

[R. Matey]

Congress passed and Biden signed a bill back in December that now will allow LPC/LMHC be Medicare providers, but it does not take effect until 2024. So opportunities are increasing.

Good to know. I'll bet this will go a long way in decreasing the social work/counseling gap.

 

[sjLando]

You have two years left of undergrad? Are you working your way through or did you start late? Did you mostly complete gen ed or major requirements?

I have an associate degree and a bunch of other stuff. I started around ten years ago and was in and out for family and work reasons.

Had finally decided to go back full time this year but I overloaded myself.

Thanks for the suggestion, I had always thought I'd hate nursing since I'd be working under the job I failed out of but I may need to re examine.

 

[singasongofjoy]

I second the idea of taking time to step back and consider wider variety of options. Maybe play around on this website (either with or without completing the interest inventory) to discover related fields / jobs you might not have thought of, along with info on regional pay, projected job outlook, and you can search by level of training required (from none to doctoral level). here's the website: My Next Move for the inventory you can look here: O*NET Interest Profiler at My Next Move

 

[summerbabe]

There's lots of really good advice here. I would emphasize going back to the drawing board since you have at least 2 more years to figure stuff out.

There are many ways to work in mental health and your specific areas of interest. If you have had some good mentors at previous places of employment or volunteering, this could be a perfect time to reconnect and get some advice, which may include both new knowledge and hard truths we may not want to admit to ourselves.

As for helping to fund future education, some public universities have graduate assistantships. Most operate on a work study like basis (do 20 hours of work for an office on campus like the financial aid office and receive a small stipend and full or partial tuition waiver). It would likely outpace a typical part-time job and allow easier scheduling with school.

Here's the page for one such school. Some GAs are department specific (like the psych dept ones are only available to grad students in psych) while others are campus wide and select GAs based on their resumes and fit.

Plus, if you were to pursue another degree, definitely go with a brick and mortar public university if at all possible. Good luck!