Consistently outstanding students

[Newyawk]

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How common is the consistently outstanding student? Ive found that some attendings like me more than others sometimes despite poor or great performance so it made me wonder about this.

 

[Goro]

Have faith in yourself, Yawkie, and don't indulge in imposter syndrome.

 

[getdown]

How common is the consistently outstanding student? Ive found that some attendings like me more than others sometimes despite poor or great performance so it made me wonder about this.

Because having a good personality and being an interesting person is much better to work with than the lame workaholic with the perfect board scores and multiple publications. Remember you're entering a JOB. At some basic level it's assumed you have the necessary competencies to perform your job. It's all the other soft factors that make you successful at your job. Oh you can quote most recent studies on colloid vs crystalloid? EEEEHHHH BORING ... next. That stuff only impresses your ivory tower attendings, none of your PP colleagues give a **** as long as your outcomes are fine.

 

[deleted87051]

Because having a good personality and being an interesting person is much better to work with than the lame workaholic with the perfect board scores and multiple publications. Remember you're entering a JOB. At some basic level it's assumed you have the necessary competencies to perform your job. It's all the other soft factors that make you successful at your job. Oh you can quote most recent studies on colloid vs crystalloid? EEEEHHHH BORING ... next. That stuff only impresses your ivory tower attendings, none of your PP colleagues give a **** as long as your outcomes are fine.

But don’t get me started on normal saline😉

 

[getdown]

But don’t get me started on normal saline😉

lol. I'll see your NS and raise you plasmalyte. Only real anesthesiologists resuscitate with plasmalyte 😛

 

[libertyyne]

Because having a good personality and being an interesting person is much better to work with than the lame workaholic with the perfect board scores and multiple publications. Remember you're entering a JOB. At some basic level it's assumed you have the necessary competencies to perform your job. It's all the other soft factors that make you successful at your job. Oh you can quote most recent studies on colloid vs crystalloid? EEEEHHHH BORING ... next. That stuff only impresses your ivory tower attendings, none of your PP colleagues give a **** as long as your outcomes are fine.

Why can't I be good around people and love nerding out?

 

[getdown]

Why can't I be good around people and love nerding out?

Lol, of course you can be both. We're all nerds and I enjoy a hearty medical discussion as much as the next guy but if that's the only thing you want to discuss, it's super boring. Just now, I finished watching a quick review on intraoperative WPW tachycardia managements.

 

[Psai]

Figure out what you're supposed to do and do it. It sounds easy but there are so many people who can't do it.

If you're told to do something, do it. Don't waste my time with bull**** questions or ask me about things you can look up on wikipedia.

 

[Newyawk]

Because having a good personality and being an interesting person is much better to work with than the lame workaholic with the perfect board scores and multiple publications. Remember you're entering a JOB. At some basic level it's assumed you have the necessary competencies to perform your job. It's all the other soft factors that make you successful at your job. Oh you can quote most recent studies on colloid vs crystalloid? EEEEHHHH BORING ... next. That stuff only impresses your ivory tower attendings, none of your PP colleagues give a **** as long as your outcomes are fine.

I dont really understand what your point is. Are you saying thats why theres variation in grading? Or thats why there are students who are consistently outstanding?
The former would make sense bc it relies more on matching personalities (some seniors are gunners and expect the same from students and hate seeing laid back students). The latter doesnt make sense for the very same reason.
Elaborate please

 

[spartan25]

Because having a good personality and being an interesting person is much better to work with than the lame workaholic with the perfect board scores and multiple publications. Remember you're entering a JOB. At some basic level it's assumed you have the necessary competencies to perform your job. It's all the other soft factors that make you successful at your job. Oh you can quote most recent studies on colloid vs crystalloid? EEEEHHHH BORING ... next. That stuff only impresses your ivory tower attendings, none of your PP colleagues give a **** as long as your outcomes are fine.

You’d be shocked how far being a halfway decent person who can hold a conversation will take you during rotations

 

[afib123]

I think 3rd year is a mix of intelligence, hard work + personality. If all you have is charming personality but are not able to answer most questions on rounds, people will have to give you average to below average even if they like you as a person.
If you are intelligent, look prepared, ask good questions, answer "pimp questions" most people will give you good ratings. But, I have come across a few that have given me average ratings because I didn't completely gel with their personality even though they rated my fund of knowledge being really good.
I think that's where the variation in my grades comes in. Two-thirds have been giving me "excellent" ratings and I suspect these are the ones that don't really care about having a charismatic personalty as long as you're nice and polite. The other 1/3rds have been giving me "average" and I suspect most of those are based on the fact that I wasn't able to impress them with my personality.
I suspect the best of the best 3rd year students have both a charismatic personality and outstanding fund of knowledge, but these students have been very rare in my rotations.

 

[Lawpy]

I suspect the best of the best 3rd year students have both a charismatic personality and outstanding fund of knowledge, but these students have been very rare in my rotations.

This makes sense and explains how some people are able to get straight honors across M3 rotations.

 

[getdown]

I dont really understand what your point is. Are you saying thats why theres variation in grading? Or thats why there are students who are consistently outstanding?
The former would make sense bc it relies more on matching personalities (some seniors are gunners and expect the same from students and hate seeing laid back students). The latter doesnt make sense for the very same reason.
Elaborate please

Quite simple. MS3 grading is very subjective. Those who are well liked gets better grades than the kids who are annoying. You don't have to be a superstar in a rotation to get good evals as long as you have a good personality. Although actually knowing your **** also helps.

 

[Newyawk]

Quite simple. MS3 grading is very subjective. Those who are well liked gets better grades than the kids who are annoying. You don't have to be a superstar in a rotation to get good evals as long as you have a good personality. Although actually knowing your **** also helps.

Your logic would make sense if not for the obvious variation in personalities of attendings. Like i said, some attendings prefer laid back students who dont seem overconfident. Others like gunners. Others only care about your knowledgebase, etc...
And then of course you have seniors who ignore med students existence, making sociability irrelevant

 

[Raney Schauer]

Why can't I be good around people and love nerding out?

We're all nerds for something.

Remember: Fantasy leagues are the Dungeons and Dragons session of sports.

 

[mistafab]

So far i’ve honored every rotation.

Things I do to consistently get good evals:
1. Not look sloppy
2. Never EVER complain
3. Always said “yes” to doing something
4. ALWAYS had my other student’s back (team looks good, you look good)
5. Show up 5-15 minutes early
6. Give a rat’s ***

If you do that, then they will atleast see that you care. That’s more than half the battle. Number 5 is probably the highest yield point on the list.

 

[Newyawk]

So far i’ve honored every rotation.

Things I do to consistently get good evals:
1. Not look sloppy
2. Never EVER complain
3. Always said “yes” to doing something
4. ALWAYS had my other student’s back (team looks good, you look good)
5. Show up 5-15 minutes early
6. Give a rat’s ***

If you do that, then they will atleast see that you care. That’s more than half the battle. Number 5 is probably the highest yield point on the list.

Ive also honored most rotations. i was talking about comments

 

[mistafab]

Then i’m not sure what you’re talking about. Good comments spawn from good performance. If you want better comments then do better.

Ive also honored most rotations. i was talking about comments

 

[bananafish94]

I think the first thing to recognize is that every school has wildly different criteria for determining honors, and also wildly different definitions for what honors is. I have heard of schools where at least half the class is getting some kind of "honors" designation (e.g. Honors with distinction, high honors, honors, high pass, etc.) so that a lot of people are getting something with "honors" in the name, and some schools where honors is legitimately reserved to the very top portion of the class. The grading is also very different. Some schools might base a huge proportion of the grade (50%+) on the shelf grade, in which case the path to success is weighted heavily towards doing well on the shelf.

My school places most of the weight on clinical evaluations. Now, I happen to believe that clinical evaluations are problematic simply because in my experience most people are going to grade how they always grade, and it ultimately doesn't have that much to do with how you perform. For example, I have had multiple attendings who are known for giving everyone the exact same grade. It doesn't matter if you are an average student or a star student, everyone gets the exact same score, even the most impressive students in my class who I most try to emulate. There's nothing you can do about that. On the flip side, some people will give you the highest possible score in every category even if you objectively didn't deserve it. I've been lucky in that regard as well. Thus far in 3rd year, I've been lucky enough to get honors but I've also gotten passes. My motto basically boils down to "control what you can control."

-The shelf is the biggest thing that you can control. Study for it like it's the most important test of your life, every single time. Going ham on UWorld and other quality review materials has yielded me mostly very good results.
-Put forth enormous effort on every single little miscellaneous assignment, even if it's only worth a tiny percent of your grade. If you can control it, it might be the difference.
-On the floors, just do absolutely everything you can. Show up everyday eager to learn and work. Wear nice, professional clothes. Put a good faith effort into everything you do, and be known as someone who is good to worth with from every single person involved. Always try to be a good classmate to the other medical students on your team. Stay out of your residents' way when they are clearly busy.

I think that's basically it. I just try to do my best. Sometimes it will be enough, sometimes it won't. But that's life.

 

[afib123]

I think the first thing to recognize is that every school has wildly different criteria for determining honors, and also wildly different definitions for what honors is. I have heard of schools where at least half the class is getting some kind of "honors" designation (e.g. Honors with distinction, high honors, honors, high pass, etc.) so that a lot of people are getting something with "honors" in the name, and some schools where honors is legitimately reserved to the very top portion of the class. The grading is also very different. Some schools might base a huge proportion of the grade (50%+) on the shelf grade, in which case the path to success is weighted heavily towards doing well on the shelf.

My school places most of the weight on clinical evaluations. Now, I happen to believe that clinical evaluations are problematic simply because in my experience most people are going to grade how they always grade, and it ultimately doesn't have that much to do with how you perform. For example, I have had multiple attendings who are known for giving everyone the exact same grade. It doesn't matter if you are an average student or a star student, everyone gets the exact same score, even the most impressive students in my class who I most try to emulate. There's nothing you can do about that. On the flip side, some people will give you the highest possible score in every category even if you objectively didn't deserve it. I've been lucky in that regard as well. Thus far in 3rd year, I've been lucky enough to get honors but I've also gotten passes. My motto basically boils down to "control what you can control."

-The shelf is the biggest thing that you can control. Study for it like it's the most important test of your life, every single time. Going ham on UWorld and other quality review materials has yielded me mostly very good results.
-Put forth enormous effort on every single little miscellaneous assignment, even if it's only worth a tiny percent of your grade. If you can control it, it might be the difference.
-On the floors, just do absolutely everything you can. Show up everyday eager to learn and work. Wear nice, professional clothes. Put a good faith effort into everything you do, and be known as someone who is good to worth with from every single person involved. Always try to be a good classmate to the other medical students on your team. Stay out of your residents' way when they are clearly busy.

I think that's basically it. I just try to do my best. Sometimes it will be enough, sometimes it won't. But that's life.

Agree. I think the clinical evaluation component of the grade should be removed. The comments should remain and should be emphasized that each evaluator has to write detailed evaluations than generic "hard worker" "pleasant to work with".
I think clinical evaluations component of the final grade should be pass or fail. The final grade should be determined by the shelf, OSCEs, being evaluated on real patients ( 1 to 2 graders watching these patient interviews to standardize them). Although I have also gotten mostly honors, I think it's stupid how clinical grades can give you honors or take away your honors purely by luck, especially in rotations like family medicine when only 1 person evaluates you.

 

[Newyawk]

Agree. I think the clinical evaluation component of the grade should be removed. The comments should remain and should be emphasized that each evaluator has to write detailed evaluations than generic "hard worker" "pleasant to work with".
I think clinical evaluations component of the final grade should be pass or fail. The final grade should be determined by the shelf, OSCEs, being evaluated on real patients ( 1 to 2 graders watching these patient interviews to standardize them) is the way to go. Although I have also gotten mostly honors, I think it's stupid how clinical grades can give you honors or take away your honors purely by luck, especially in rotations like family medicine when only 1 person evaluates you.

So true family med was the most ridiculous of all

 

[Newyawk]

Then i’m not sure what you’re talking about. Good comments spawn from good performance. If you want better comments then do better.

Oh! thanks for clearing that up for me, bro.