Consulting--- residency or not?

[vdawg2010]

I am pretty interested in not practicing medicine after completing my M.D. I am currently near the end of my 3rd year but have to decide very fast if I want to pursue a residency. I have been told that if I go straight to a consulting job, I would be offered around $120k or so but if I did a few years residency that I could be offered something more along the lines of $250k. Does anyone know anything about this? Is there really that big of a difference in potential for other opportunities if I do a residency or just bail after the M.D.?

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[DrJosephKim]

Short and simple answer: Go for a residency and be patient. There are so many more opportunities if you go through clinical training.

 

[LADoc00]

I carefully weighed my options as well as a med student and as a 1st year resident..and decided to complete my training. And that was when the economy was good and people were actually hiring consultants. I really think the age of specialized consulting is past and will not return for some time.

 

[StevenRF]

A few of the MD/MBA students graduating this year at my school are going straight into consulting as associates, all top 3 firms. It seems like you can still do it, but I don't know what it's going to be in a couple years. A friend of my at McKinsey says they are doing some upper level cleaning, and the up or out policy is getting a little more stringent.

http://www.mckinsey.com/careers/is_...rounds_like_yours/other_advanced_degrees.aspx
From what I hear, if you do go through residency, you can get put in as a manager straight in, although I still think you lose out a few years. On the other hand it's a pyramid so very few stay long term. From job postings I've seen, if you actually have the residency complete more upper level positions and things like VC open up that require the practical experience.

So who knows... It's something I'm watching closely as I try to find a relatively short term solution to my 250k pit of despair without suffering through residency. BTW, only an MS3 about to start B school, so my knowledge is mostly hearsay.

 

[arrhythmia7]

When you finish medical school, you have M.D. behind your name, but as anyone that has survived the first week of internship will attest, you are not a doctor.
1. I would submit that if you are not going to complete residency, you wasted 200k in medical school and should have just gotten an MBA. As an MD/MBA, your added value and competitive advantage comes in your medical expertise.
2. Further, if you are working on deals in the healthcare industry, you will be interacting with doctors that have completed training or are practicing. Doctors are very credential-oriented, everybody wants to known where you trained and what you do. People will view you as a medical student, period. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but as I can attest, people barely respect you if you "just" do internal medicine and don't specialize, or if you pursue community practice as opposed to academics.
3. I know several people from med school and residency that have done stints at McKinsey or other strategy consulting firms. Almost all of them either return to practice or continue to practice while they consult on at least a part-time basis. Medicine is like exercising, if you go too long without doing it, you quickly become flabby.
4. It's great to be able to fall back on your income as a practicing physician - the career stability is pretty much unparalleled.

 

[civic4982]

I decided to go to residency. I've gone to school too long not to really know how to treat patients. Regardless of giving up the possibility of 4 years or more of income I wanted to walk away from my medical career with skills and knowledge on how to be a healer.

Of course I also don't come from a known MBA program or even medical school so my earning potential is greatly decreased. Regardless I don't tihnk a 150K-ish salary would take me away from medicine since I still feel like I'm at such a young stage in it.

 

[Xardas]

hear that whooshing sound? its the economy going into runs of v. tach.

I just cannot see consulting firms throwing around the kind of money they did in the past.. That and you are competing with ever growing numbers of people who have lost their job AND have specialized financial training.

At least doing a residency can give you a hedge if the finance thing doesn't work out..

 

[DrJosephKim]

Everyone should give residency a chance before making a decision. It's very hard to "go back" to the clinical world.

 

[dragonfly99]

I think drkim is right, unless you are 100% certain that you have no desire to ever do clinical medicine. There was a woman in the class ahead of me in med school who opted to go straight to consulting, and did get hired by a big firm. She didn't have an MBA. I don't know what her undergrad degree was in, but we were in a very well known med school and a lot of the students had ivy league undergrad degrees, etc. You can likely bail on clinical medicine before you try if you really want to do that, particularly if you also have an MBA. I'm no expert on the business world, but I think the MD with no residency likely only gives you marginal benefit over an MBA (in the job market), for the reasons posted above.

 

[StevenRF]

I wonder if there are any people who left for the business world in whatever aspect either before or after residency who could comment. I'm guessing they don't frequent this forum any more. I know 5 people who have left prior to residency and been successful, and our chancellor actually did as well. As of now we have only disgruntled medical students and residents/attendings who decided to stay the course in the discussion.

I guess what I'm saying is like the poster I'm trying to weigh doing 8+ years of surgical training vs shifting to business. From everything I've read, the future of medicine does not look that bright, with the coming health care bubble to pop. On the other hand the current recession has caused hiring freezes in most places. It doesn't help either that most of the fellows and attendings I talk to in person are telling me to run like hell, while I've never heard the same from people who switched. Everyone here who stayed says stay.

So in essence I'm lost. Hopefully an internship will tell me if I'll like it more. I wish more residencies were flexible about starting late. Then I could go out and work for a few years to be debt free before coming back. Anyway, thanks for everyone contributing. This forum is kind of dead usually.

 

[dragonfly99]

If you can't decide between
a) quitting clinical medicine altogether and
b) doing a surgical residency
I think you are going to hate surgical residency and bail out. I'm not trying to be hateful at all, but I just want to point out that surgical residencies are among the hardest residencies around, and if you don't love it and aren't absolutely committed, I don't see how you'll make it through. I did IM, but I'm just saying...

I'm not disgruntled, by the way. I like taking care of patients. Keep in mind there will be paperwork/hassles in whatever line of work you get into. Also keep in mind that many docs lay it on thick that you should "Get out now!" but 1/2 of it is just hype. Also, many conservatives right now are freaking out due to Obama getting elected and the proposed health care reforms. It remains to be seen how much he'll actually push through, and what effects it will have on medical practice, so take it all with a grain of salt.

 

[Xardas]

If you can't decide between
a) quitting clinical medicine altogether and
b) doing a surgical residency
I think you are going to hate surgical residency and bail out. I'm not trying to be hateful at all, but I just want to point out that surgical residencies are among the hardest residencies around, and if you don't love it and aren't absolutely committed, I don't see how you'll make it through. I did IM, but I'm just saying...

I'm not disgruntled, by the way. I like taking care of patients. Keep in mind there will be paperwork/hassles in whatever line of work you get into. Also keep in mind that many docs lay it on thick that you should "Get out now!" but 1/2 of it is just hype. Also, many conservatives right now are freaking out due to Obama getting elected and the proposed health care reforms. It remains to be seen how much he'll actually push through, and what effects it will have on medical practice, so take it all with a grain of salt.

Its been my experience that the 'Get out now Doc's' are usually the ones who lack any sort of plan to actually get out of clinical medicine. They also are the ones who are the loudest complainers at various hospital committee meetings.

Getting opinions is one thing, actually getting opinions from those who have successfully crossed over is another.

The doc's I know who end up being doing something non-direct patient care related often have a very healthy respect for their patient care counterparts. They are often the ones that just realized they had other interests.

 

[paintballdoc]

I would complete the residency first. It is about impossible to restart clinical medicine once you have been out. Also, the M.D. degree is one of the most useless degrees without a residency--I put it right up there with a basket weaving degree.

In terms of residency, if you absolutely are going to leave clinical medicine and never return, I would consider Internal Medicine. You could focus on diabetes or other conditions, which will be invaluable with any business direction you choose. I have read that Medtronic is basing its future on diabetes pumps, etc in the future. That is one example. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Anyways, you definitely have to do what you believe is best for you. The good thing for most people who have gotten through medicine is that they are bright and work hard. If you get along with people, you will probably do well no matter what path you choose. I still would complete a residency in something you can be happy in, if you decide to stay in clinical medicine.