Contacting schools with interest pre-II

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GrumpyGus

GrumpyGus

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Hi all (and specifically adcoms!)

I'm in a very fortunate place with interviews and where I've received them so far. I would be extremely happy to be at most schools I've interviewed at and am very thankful (and hopefully hear good news this weekend/Monday!). However, there are some schools that rank higher on my list for personal and professional reasons that I have not heard back from yet. I know schools are around 50-70% done with offering II and I know some schools (like Jefferson) specifically want to get these types of interest emails.

With that said, what's your opinion? Specifically @LizzyM @Goro @Gonniff @gyngyn and whoever else there is! And if I were to send something, what do you suggest be included?

Thanks!
 
CavsFan2016 said:
What makes you think schools are around 50-70% done offering II's at this point?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
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Oakland is close to 50% (https://wwwp.oakland.edu/medicine/admissions/admissions-events/)

Michigan has scheduled 351 of around 600 they usually schedule ( https://medicine.umich.edu/medschoo...ool/files/field/docs/5YearAdmSnapshot16_1.pdf and https://medicine.umich.edu/medschool/education/md-program/md-admissions)

Tulane's Dean said they've done around 70%

heard Pitt is around 75%

Loyola's dean personally told me middle of September that they've done more than half

Arizona - PHX has offered 189 interviews for around the 300 they usually offer (http://phoenixmed.arizona.edu/admissions)

Wayne state has requested 360 of 670 spots (http://admissions.med.wayne.edu/)

I'm sure some schools have done less and some more, but of all the data I have it seems to be around 50-70 is right.
 
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GrumpyGus said:
Oakland is close to 50% (https://wwwp.oakland.edu/medicine/admissions/admissions-events/)

Michigan has scheduled 351 of around 600 they usually schedule ( https://medicine.umich.edu/medschoo...ool/files/field/docs/5YearAdmSnapshot16_1.pdf and https://medicine.umich.edu/medschool/education/md-program/md-admissions)

Tulane's Dean said they've done around 70%

heard Pitt is around 75%

Loyola's dean personally told me middle of September that they've done more than half

Arizona - PHX has offered 189 interviews for around the 300 they usually offer (http://phoenixmed.arizona.edu/admissions)

Wayne state has requested 360 of 670 spots (http://admissions.med.wayne.edu/)

I'm sure some schools have done less and some more, but of all the data I have it seems to be around 50-70 is right.
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Bruh youre killing dreams rn
 
ChymeofPassion said:
Bruh youre killing dreams rn
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I'm sorry! haha but there is a reason why I am asking this question and I'm so sick of constantly hearing "calm down it's October it's super early." It's not, schools are filling up
 
GrumpyGus said:
I'm sorry! haha but there is a reason why I am asking this question and I'm so sick of constantly hearing "calm down it's October it's super early." It's not, schools are filling up
Click to expand...

Yes, the 3 admissions offers by wayne = class full time to go cancel the interview😍
 
I don't think being in the first 50% is all that important. ~300 more people will get interviews from those schools, which is a lot! Who cares of if there were just as many people ahead of you as there were behind you.

Some of the more aggressive schools are farther ahead, but I haven't heard of any besides the ones you quoted.
 
GrumpyGus said:
Oakland is close to 50% (https://wwwp.oakland.edu/medicine/admissions/admissions-events/)

Michigan has scheduled 351 of around 600 they usually schedule ( https://medicine.umich.edu/medschoo...ool/files/field/docs/5YearAdmSnapshot16_1.pdf and https://medicine.umich.edu/medschool/education/md-program/md-admissions)

Tulane's Dean said they've done around 70%

heard Pitt is around 75%

Loyola's dean personally told me middle of September that they've done more than half

Arizona - PHX has offered 189 interviews for around the 300 they usually offer (http://phoenixmed.arizona.edu/admissions)

Wayne state has requested 360 of 670 spots (http://admissions.med.wayne.edu/)

I'm sure some schools have done less and some more, but of all the data I have it seems to be around 50-70 is right.
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If I wasn't paranoid before, I am now...
@RogueBanana
 
gonnif said:
PREMED and PISS.
Click to expand...
gc.gif
 
gonnif said:
Going back to the original question, why would a letter of interest (see http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/letter-of-interest.1221995/#post-18138097 ) serve any purpose? You have sent a primary and secondary and these are where your arguments should have been made. If you have some reason why these schools should consider you now different then before that is substantive and may carry impact to an adcom, you can considering sending an update (see list http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/is-it-too-early-for-update-letters.1220361/#post-18109525) But frankly in the immortal words of that man from west of St. Louis, @Goro "they are worthless and make you look desperate"

The question you really have to ask is a letter going to help or just put a desperate nail in the coffin or simply have no impact?
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Is this really true though? I know a lot of MDs and previous med students who have done just that and gotten good results / interviews very shortly afterwards. At this point it's more what do I have to lose, you know? An email of interest wouldn't have an interview taken away from me if I had already gotten one but not just notified yet.
 
as a follow on to OP's question, what about the situation where you're over the 90th %ile for stats but still interested in a school? i have 80+ lizzy M and complete at my state school for 2.5 months without hearing a word. I'd be really happy to go there even though I'm numerically a match for higher "prestige" schools. Worth sending them an email expressing interest or would that be presumptuous?
 
james11 said:
as a follow on to OP's question, what about the situation where you're over the 90th %ile for stats but still interested in a school? i have 80+ lizzy M and complete at my state school for 2.5 months without hearing a word. I'd be really happy to go there even though I'm numerically a match for higher "prestige" schools. Worth sending them an email expressing interest or would that be presumptuous?
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Epitome of first world problem.
 
gonnif said:
or you are in the pile for possible second round of potential interview calls. Would this look highly interested or exceedingly desperate?
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Why would this look desperate? Genuine question. If I am legit interested in couple schools why is it desperate to express said interest? I'm not emailing them "omg I'm gonna kill myself if I don't get an II here!" lol
 
Frogger27 said:
Because you should be interested in every school you apply to......
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Some schools more than others. It's almost as if I would have a preference of where I went. Shocker, I know. That's why I said COUPLE schools not ALL schools I applied to.
 
Here's the only time that I think that this strategy could work in your favor:

You have an OFFER of Admission (not just an interview) from a more highly ranked school (or a school with a higher LizzyM score) than your target school and if given a choice, you would choose your target school over all others (even if the other school offered you a free ride), then it might be worth saying, "although I have the good fortune of being admitted to AAA School of Medicine, I am far more interested in attending Smallpotatoes School of Medicine and I hope that I will be afforded the opportunity to interview there sometime in the coming months. My interest in Smallpotatoes stems from my interest in...."

Good luck!
 
LizzyM said:
Here's the only time that I think that this strategy could work in your favor:

You have an OFFER of Admission (not just an interview) from a more highly ranked school (or a school with a higher LizzyM score) than your target school and if given a choice, you would choose your target school over all others (even if the other school offered you a free ride), then it might be worth saying, "although I have the good fortune of being admitted to AAA School of Medicine, I am far more interested in attending Smallpotatoes School of Medicine and I hope that I will be afforded the opportunity to interview there sometime in the coming months. My interest in Smallpotatoes stems from my interest in...."

Good luck!
Click to expand...
Smallpotatoes School of Medicine lol :laugh:
 
gonnif said:
@ChrisMack390 notes that I am mildly cranky. Its this kind of topic from applicants that make me so. Not only is the tone/action of a LOI usually silly and desperate but the herd-mentality is desperate in itself with the only the optimism as a possibility denying any potential downside.
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Only mildly tho 🙂
 
CavsFan2016 said:
Has anyone really given an opinion on this? Seems to me like its going against the Turkey day rule as well.
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How is it going against the turkey rule? Is an II not valid if you're not in the first half of applicants to get it?
The early-or-nothing mentality is really overplayed here
 
gonnif said:
So, what are you going to tell them that you haven't already? and how would you say it? would it just be repeating stuff already in your application? would it be stuff that should have been in your application but wasnt? Would it be asking for an update on your application? Would it be a gentle implication that perhpas you over looked my wonderful, special snow flake application? Would it simply be something along the lines of "I really, really want to attend your school?" Just tell me how any reading by any adcom would be interpreted any other way but desperate?

This is what I dont understand from applicants at all. Do you all not realize that very, very few update letters have any worthwhile updates? And that letters of interest that dont have any significant new information will first and foremost be seen as at least silly and usually desperate? I am baffled as to what applicants think these letters read like? They rarely help and they can hurt or at least put a reader or reviewer off.

For instance, lets suppose your application hasnt been evaluated yet. I dont care you were fully complete by August 1st, application are not fully evaluated and reviewed in chronological order which I am posted dozen of times. Lets suppose you write a LOI and it would be the latest thing in your file meaning its on top. Would you like the first thing I read about you is some usually ill-written, possibly whiny, complete fluff that you really really like our school? Do you not think that may set my unconscious attitude for the rest of my eval of your file? What do you think I will read that letter like as we are reviewing 500 applications?

@ChrisMack390 notes that I am mildly cranky. Its this kind of topic from applicants that make me so. Not only is the tone/action of a LOI usually silly and desperate but the herd-mentality is desperate in itself with the only the optimism as a possibility denying any potential downside.
Click to expand...
What if you have an offer(s) from other schools as @LizzyM mentioned above?
 
Pusheen said:
How is it going against the turkey rule? Is an II not valid if you're not in the first half of applicants to get it?
The early-or-nothing mentality is really overplayed here
Click to expand...

True - but at this rate the interview slots are going to be almost filled by Thanksgiving which seems a bit dramatic considering the interview season still runs through March of next year.
 
CavsFan2016 said:
True - but at this rate the interview slots are going to be almost filled by Thanksgiving
Click to expand...
Which is why Thanksgiving is the time to worry, not right now.
Plus the fact that most superstar applicants already have their apps in and all the top candidates have been invited, so that last 50% will probably go much more slowly than the first 50%
 
Gus, you sent them an app. They KNOW you're interested in them. They also know that you're lying because you yourself admit: " However, there are some schools that rank higher on my list"

Let me put it to you another way: The app process is a negative selecting one. Schools receive 1000s, if not 10s of 1000s of apps from very highly qualified applicants. How to cull the herd? By rejecting those who have more deficits in their apps.

Restating the obvious might work with that hot chick you want to take to the prom, but not med schools. Annoying the Admissions dean and his/her staff is a good way to add more more defect to your app.

So what's the harm in sending an app? See above.

GrumpyGus said:
Hi all (and specifically adcoms!)

I'm in a very fortunate place with interviews and where I've received them so far. I would be extremely happy to be at most schools I've interviewed at and am very thankful (and hopefully hear good news this weekend/Monday!). However, there are some schools that rank higher on my list for personal and professional reasons that I have not heard back from yet. I know schools are around 50-70% done with offering II and I know some schools (like Jefferson) specifically want to get these types of interest emails.

With that said, what's your opinion? Specifically @LizzyM @Goro @Gonniff @gyngyn and whoever else there is! And if I were to send something, what do you suggest be included?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
Edit: accidental double post.
 
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The point I was trying to make is that if an applicant has an offer from a top school early in the season and has not been invited to interview at their local state school it could be because the local school is practicing yield protection and not inviting applicants who they think will throw them over for Harvard, Stamford, Hopkins.

This might be like saying, "The captain of the football team has invited me to prom but I've told him I have to think about it; really, I'm hoping for an invitation from you. Will you ask me?"
 
Pusheen said:
Which is why Thanksgiving is the time to worry, not right now.
Plus the fact that most superstar applicants already have their apps in and all the top candidates have been invited, so that last 50% will probably go much more slowly than the first 50%
Click to expand...

You are very wise


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
LizzyM said:
The point I was trying to make is that if an applicant has an offer from a top school early in the season and has not been invited to interview at their local state school it could be because the local school is practicing yield protection and not inviting applicants who they think will throw them over for Harvard, Stamford, Hopkins.

This might be like saying, "The captain of the football team has invited me to prom but I've told him I have to think about it; really, I'm hoping for an invitation from you. Will you ask me?"
Click to expand...

Why would a local state school practice yield protection when applicants can just reason that they want to be close to family and SO
 
gyngyn said:
Offers of admission.
No MD schools have given offers of admission yet.
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Right. I was referring to offers of admission as well even though no offers have been made. Just asking now so I don't have to bring this topic up again later (although I'm sure it will be by many other people people).

So let's say 10/17 rolls around and an applicant has been lucky enough to get at least one acceptance and maybe even more... then would it be okay to reach out to the other school you'd rather attend but have not yet been invited to interview to express your interest/intent? This is considering the letter is sincerely and professionally crafted and the school(s) you've already been accepted to are equally ranked and/or ranked higher.
 
LizzyM said:
Here's the only time that I think that this strategy could work in your favor:

You have an OFFER of Admission (not just an interview) from a more highly ranked school (or a school with a higher LizzyM score) than your target school and if given a choice, you would choose your target school over all others (even if the other school offered you a free ride), then it might be worth saying, "although I have the good fortune of being admitted to AAA School of Medicine, I am far more interested in attending Smallpotatoes School of Medicine and I hope that I will be afforded the opportunity to interview there sometime in the coming months. My interest in Smallpotatoes stems from my interest in...."

Good luck!
Click to expand...
Thank you for giving me an actual level-headed answer and not being rude / copy pasting the exact same PREMED/PISS thing @gonnif does.

Goro said:
Gus, you sent them an app. They KNOW you're interested in them. They also know that you're lying because you yourself admit: " However, there are some schools that rank higher on my list"

Let me put it to you another way: The app process is a negative selecting one. Schools receive 1000s, if not 10s of 1000s of apps from very highly qualified applicants. How to cull the herd? By rejecting those who have more deficits in their apps.

Restating the obvious might work with that hot chick you want to take to the prom, but not med schools. Annoying the Admissions dean and his/her staff is a good way to add more more defect to your app.

So what's the harm in sending an app? See above.
Click to expand...

I see your point. But it's also selecting for students they think would accept an offer aka if I expressed interest and said "you are in my hometown and are by far one of, if not my single, top choice"

I'm really just trying to have a discussion here and seeing what options are available to students. I'd be perfectly content sitting put and hopefully attending one of the schools I've interviewed at haha. Contrary to popular belief, this isn't me wanting to message Harvard and say "omg love me" it's more contacting my hometown school and expressing my insane interest in them. Thank you for also answering not rudely 🙂
 
gonnif said:
When an applicant starts self expressing paranoia, perhaps a reminder of the PREMED/PISS this process makes all applicants feel paranoid. Its called gallows humor.

As for writing to a school that you would really like to attend because its your hometown, close to SO, etc, I would think, hope, pray that any reasonable intelligent applicant would have included that in their extensive secondary application, if not apparent from the address on your primary. I reiterate, most applicants with Letters of Interest (pre-interview/decision which is where this thread started) have nothing new to say to an adcom that either hasnt been included in an application already or should have been and that Letters of Intent (post decision) where the one can try to make the argument/leverage that even though I have been accepted elsewhere, its you school I love)

@ChrisMack390, I think I am past mild today
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Secondary unfortunately had no room for this. It was one of those quirky ones that never asked "why this school" or asked for anything of the sorts.

I'll wait until I hopefully have acceptances to contact these schools if I choose to do so later. Thanks for the help
 
To follow up my learned colleague, these LOI are love letters and nothing more. Do you really think that the Admission dean is swayed by
this applicant lives here and really wants to go here" logic? They have a seller's market, and can pick among plenty of people. The love letter doesn't add anything.




gonnif said:
When an applicant starts self expressing paranoia, perhaps a reminder of the PREMED/PISS this process makes all applicants feel paranoid. Its called gallows humor.

As for writing to a school that you would really like to attend because its your hometown, close to SO, etc, I would think, hope, pray that any reasonable intelligent applicant would have included that in their extensive secondary application, if not apparent from the address on your primary. I reiterate, most applicants with Letters of Interest (pre-interview/decision which is where this thread started) have nothing new to say to an adcom that either hasnt been included in an application already or should have been and that Letters of Intent (post decision) where the one can try to make the argument/leverage that even though I have been accepted elsewhere, its you school I love)

@ChrisMack390, I think I am past mild today
Click to expand...
 
Goro said:
To follow up my learned colleague, these LOI are love letters and nothing more. Do you really think that the Admission dean is swayed by
this applicant lives here and really wants to go here" logic? They have a seller's market, and can pick among plenty of people. The love letter doesn't add anything.
Click to expand...
Gracias, thanks for your advice 🙂
 
Goro said:
To follow up my learned colleague, these LOI are love letters and nothing more. Do you really think that the Admission dean is swayed by
this applicant lives here and really wants to go here" logic? They have a seller's market, and can pick among plenty of people. The love letter doesn't add anything.
Click to expand...

I think the love letter can help when you already have an offer from a highly desirable suitor but you'd prefer the seemingly less attractive option. The less attractive option may believe that they are only a "safety" and that given a choice you would choose the more attractive offer. Therefore, they won't waste an interview on you unless you say, "I already have an offer (a very fine offer) but don't be discouraged, I'm still more interested in you than in them."

If a school that generally attracts 3.4/510 applicants gets a love letter from a 3.8/518 who already has an offer from a top school, might they jump at the chance to interview the candidate knowing that they are very interested?

Someone with an offer from a top school can't really sound desperate for an interview under those circumstances.
 
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LizzyM said:
I think the love letter can help when you already have an offer from a highly desirable suitor but you'd prefer the seemingly less attractive option. The less attractive option may believe that they are only a "safety" and that given a choice you would choose the more attractive offer. Therefore, they won't waste an interview on you unless you say, "I already have an offer (a very fine offer) but don't be discouraged, I'm still more interested in you than in them."

If a school that generally attracts 3.4/310 applicants gets a love letter from a 3.8/318 who already has an offer from a top school, might they jump at the chance to interview the candidate knowing that they are very interested?

Someone with an offer from a top school can't really sound desperate for an interview under those circumstances.
Click to expand...

Do you think this applies with similarly ranked schools or schools that are only slightly higher? I imagine it wouldn't be desperate if you have an offer from a similarly highly ranked school but contact the other and explain how you prefer them for x, y, and z.
 
No.

GrumpyGus said:
Do you think this applies with similarly ranked schools or schools that are only slightly higher? I imagine it wouldn't be desperate if you have an offer from a similarly highly ranked school but contact the other and explain how you prefer them for x, y, and z.
Click to expand...
 
LizzyM said:
If a school that generally attracts 3.4/310 applicants gets a love letter from a 3.8/318 who already has an offer from a top school
Click to expand...

There is no way this person is a competitive applicant to any US MD school, let alone a top one.
 
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