Continue on to Ochem II?

[kernel]

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I apologize if something similar to this has already been asked, but I couldn't find anything related when I searched:

I got a C+ in orgo I. It was quite the struggle; I put a solid effort into it (more so than my other classes, in which I go A's) but the teacher was a complete waste of breath. I felt as though I had to teach myself completely on my own. I managed an A on two of the tests and a C- on the third. What killed me was the ACS. The material on that exam was vastly more complex than what we saw in class, and I flopped hard.

Given this information, my question is, despite the fact that I DO intend to retake orgo I next fall, should I take orgo II next term, or wait until I do better in orgo I? I wouldn't be asking this if I didn't know we would have a different (and supposedly better) professor for orgo II.

Thanks for any advice. I'm super bummed 🙁

 

[nordicat]

I got a C in both Orgo I AND Orgo II (my only C's! Boooo!), and I'm pretty sure it was due to some "fuzzy math" on my professor's behalf 🙂 I would recommend continuing and finishing the 2-course series, because there are some schools that require both. It will look better on your application if you have taken both, even at the schools that only require Orgo I.

I have 3 interviews so far this application cycle, so it doesn't seem to have hurt me!

 

[Chebanse]

I also had a not so great Ochem prof. I managed a B (I think because everyone else in the class did so poorly as well) and decided to go onto Ochem II with a different prof. BIG mistake. The class picked up exactly where Ochem I left off with no review and I was completely lost because I didn't remember or understand at least the last quarter of the Ochem I material. I dropped it after the first exam (there was no way I was pulling that one out of the hole) because I was transfering to a school that does not require Ochem II as a prereq for Biochem and because the 3 vet schools I applied to this year do not require Ochem II. I decided that I if I didn't get into vet school this go-around that I would retake both I and II to open more options for me. Luckily it doesn't matter because I got into vet school without Ochem II 😎

Anyway, sorry that was a bit of a ramble.... That was all to say, I personally don't think it is a great idea to take Ochem II if you do not feel like you learned the material well in Ochem I. Others may have different opinions.

 

[Megascops Asio]

Is there such thing as a good (and/or even just a decent) orgo teacher? I just finished orgo 1 this past semester with an extremely less than stellar teacher also. After speaking to a number of my friends in med school, I just don't believe there's such a thing as a good orgo teacher!

As for continuing on to orgo 2, I believe that's up to you. If I had tried and tried and tried and wasn't able to pull my grade up, I wouldn't take another class with the same teacher.

 

[Trematode]

It all depends on whether you felt you learned something in orgo I or not. I barely passed orgo I (horrible prof, could not get a tutor, should have dropped the course) and for my vet school, I have to take orgo II in order to replace tt orgo I mark on my transcript. Before going onto orgo II, I took orgo I again in the summer. I felt it prepared me well for orgo II and it raised my GPA a little bit. I ended up dropping orgo II due to health reasons so I am taking it in the winter. Because I did the first half or orgo II, I hope I am set.

Good luck!

 

[StartingoverVet]

Is there such thing as a good (and/or even just a decent) orgo teacher?.

Well for some students .....no.
The thing about Orgo is a large part of it is on the students to learn the material. Like vet/med school there is an awful lot of memorization involved.

Unlike vet school at least there are also some difficult concepts that a good teacher can make easier to digest. But again, for some, the best teacher in the world will not help them visualize stereochemistry etc.

So the answer to your questions is a qualified yes.

 

[Emiloo4]

Is there such thing as a good (and/or even just a decent) orgo teacher? I just finished orgo 1 this past semester with an extremely less than stellar teacher also. After speaking to a number of my friends in med school, I just don't believe there's such a thing as a good orgo teacher!

As for continuing on to orgo 2, I believe that's up to you. If I had tried and tried and tried and wasn't able to pull my grade up, I wouldn't take another class with the same teacher.

I was lucky to have awesome Orgo 1 and 2 professors (different profs)... and I even had the added bonus of my OrgoII prof being absolutely hot! 😍
In all serious though, Orgo is less about your profs and more about what you put into it. It's just a lot of material. Yes, I've had "bad professors" but in the end, you have to earn your own grade and not make excuses. Best of luck!

 

[nordicat]

All good points...I guess if you think you have no chance of passing the class with a C or better, you'd be better off not taking Orgo II and risking a D or F counting against your GPA.

*shudder* Orgo...

 

[CorporateFatCat]

I loved my OChem Professor. Maybe it was his sweet, old Georgian ways...but I digress.

My question is why you took the ACS after just one semester, since I thought that was a test for students who have completed the series.

 

[kakurubird]

My question is why you took the ACS after just one semester, since I thought that was a test for students who have completed the series.

I'm guessing the OP's prof took out questions they hadn't covered yet?
When my class took the ACS exam (at the end of two semesters), we were told there are x, y, and z topics that we haven't covered, so do your best, and the exam will be graded out of fewer questions than there are.

I wouldn't say I loved my orgo prof, but definitely respected him and found him more helpful outside of class than in lecture. He was on sabbatical for first semester the year before I took orgo and everyone did miserable in terms of learning material, even if there grade was okay, and felt very behind when they got to orgo II with a prof who assumed they had learned everything. Point is, if you don't feel you learned everything well and found orgo I challenging, the next semester is going to be even worse as you try to catch up while learning new material.

 

[Bisbee]

My organic chem professors seemed to really love their subject matter and were able to excite us students about it, too. They were definitely more than good...they were great! I learned a lot, became a lover of organic chemistry myself and did well to boot. I'm sorry everyone didn't have similar experiences a their own universities. I hope that retaking it with a better prof will make all the difference for you.

 

[Trematode]

Speaking of orgo II, I just received my first assignment. Fml.

 

[ky261682]

Speaking of orgo II, I just received my first assignment. Fml.

Seriously? He is cracking the whip this semester!

 

[Whyevernot55]

Oh the joys of Orgo. I took Orgo 1, squeaked by with a C or C+ I think, and ended up with another C in Orgo 2. I didn't really learn squat in orgo 1, had miserable professors all around.

When I had my file review last year with Tufts, I specifically asked about retaking classes to improve a grade vs moving forward with upper level classes. I was told NOT to retake most things, that it would look better to move on and do well in harder classes; however, if I wanted to retake a class, I should retake OChem 2 and do well. Basically to prove that I don't stink at chemistry. I retook it as a 6 week summer course, busted my freaking butt, and pulled a hard-earned B+ with the worst professor I've ever had. At least 2 years after I'd taken ochem 1, which I didn't remember any of.

Moral: If you are confident that you can teach yourself well enough to do well in orgo 2, go do it. You WILL have to bust your rear. I lived and breathed it for 6 weeks. Also: buy the ACS review handbook. That test is ABSURD.

 

[skittles12]

I had a really bad teacher for Organic I. I made a C in the class and felt like I learned next to nothing. I had a different teacher for Organic II, who ended up being just as bad. I had no clue what was going on throughout the semester. (Looking back now, I should have asked for more help.) I did pretty horribly on all of the exams, but I made it out with a C. Those two classes were the only C's I had, and my overall GPA was a 3.65.

If you feel like you have a decent understanding of the major concepts, then I would say to go ahead and try organic II. If it looks like it's going badly, can you drop the class? I know that UTK lets you drop a class within a certain time frame, with no effect on your GPA.

 

[flyhi]

I had an incredibly awesome Orgo teacher. I don't know if your school offers it, but i had zero chem prior to college and took a one semester chemistry and one semester organic class that was dumbed down and did not count for my bio major. I had the same prof for both and then took the 'real' gen chem (diff't prof) and /real' organic (same prof).

I busted my tail in Organic and pulled A's. I attribute it to: a great prof, me pouring my soul into it and having taken those Intro classes. If you had the time, I would highly recommend it because I pulled A's in the Intro's also, so it ended up looking pretty stout. We won't talk about Gen Chem though 🙁

I would lean towards taking Org I over before you take II.

 

[squirrelsrule]

I too had an awesome O. Chem professor. O. Chem was actually my favorite class ever! We had a blast (literally sometimes lol ). My O. Chem professor has been teaching O. Chem over 30 years and loves it. He teaches just O. Chem and an intro. to Chemistry class. I still miss my O. Chem class, if there had been an O. Chem 3 class I would have signed up even if I didn't need it for anything. I had a great group of classmates too, so I think the combo. of the awesome professor and awesome class really made the difference for me into that being my favorite class ever, but I really did get into the subject more than gen chem too. I think it would have been my favorite non bio. science class even with a bad professor.

 

[kakurubird]

I still miss my O. Chem class, if there had been an O. Chem 3 class I would have signed up even if I didn't need it for anything.

I really liked organic lecture as well (figuring out mechanisms and products and such feels really satisfying to me), though lab was basically the four most stressful hours of every week. My undergrad had an advanced organic class (lecture only) that I totally would have taken--even though I'm sure it would have been my worst class grade-wise in undergrad--but it was only offered the semester I took organic I and the semester after I graduated. Boo.

 

[bandierose]

With the help of a tutor I got a B in orgo I. I went on to Orgo II (with the same tutor) and put in an even greater effort to only get a C. If it were me, and I was already planning to retake orgo I, I would wait. Biochem is based a lot off orgo II and you won't even begin to understand II without a good base in I. So, I feel like you are setting yourself up for more C's in orgo and biochem if you rush orgo II. I would know since I also got C's in biochem following my poor orgo II performance. Good luck whichever way you go!

 

[NStarz]

With the help of a tutor I got a B in orgo I. I went on to Orgo II (with the same tutor) and put in an even greater effort to only get a C. If it were me, and I was already planning to retake orgo I, I would wait. Biochem is based a lot off orgo II and you won't even begin to understand II without a good base in I. So, I feel like you are setting yourself up for more C's in orgo and biochem if you rush orgo II. I would know since I also got C's in biochem following my poor orgo II performance. Good luck whichever way you go!

Though, I will say also, that I took biochem before I took orgo II (weird scheduling problem). So it is possible. Orgo II probably would have helped a bit, but I don't think it was completely necessary for biochem.

 

[scb44f]

Though, I will say also, that I took biochem before I took orgo II (weird scheduling problem). So it is possible. Orgo II probably would have helped a bit, but I don't think it was completely necessary for biochem.

Yep, definitely possible. I took them at the same time, and I don't think organic II was even necessary for what my biochem professor wanted us to learn. We ended up talking about the only topic directly applicable to biochem in the last lecture of organic II.

I should add I got a C in organic I, but took organic II with another professor and got an A. It is up to you if you want to retake it, but check your school's retake policy. My undergrad wouldn't allow retakes of a class unless you got a D or F the first time.

 

[pooter]

Well, if you're absolutely certain that you'll retake Orgo I next year, I would reccommend waiting and making sure your grasp of the material is as solid as you can make it before going on to Orgo II. Be aware, though, that getting a C+ doesn't automatically mean you have to retake it--it will help your GPA, but vet schools will accept it as is, especially if you show improvement in Orgo II. So, if you decide not to retake or if you think there's a chance you won't get into Orgo I next year, definitely take the second half now, while it's fresh in your mind.

And don't feel bad--that ACS exam is terrible even for those of us who took it after 2 semesters.

 

[bandierose]

At my university Orgo I and II were pre-reqs for biochem I and II because the only biochem was a masters level biochem. I forgot that not all schools structure it that way... If you only need to take a 200 or 300 level biochem then you can probably do without orgo II...

 

[WelshCob]

I had a really horrible Orgo 1 professor and an excellent Orgo 2 professor.

I had to teach myself 1, how I made it through I have no idea. My Orgo 2 professor is known to be really really hard and a brutal tester but I went to him on day one of class and basically flat out told him I had no idea how I got through the first one and he went over all I had to know to begin Orgo 2. It was a blessing I dont care how hard the tests are if someone knows how to teach I can pass a class no problem. Needless to say I did WAY better in Orgo 2 then in Orgo 1.

 

[scb44f]

At my university Orgo I and II were pre-reqs for biochem I and II because the only biochem was a masters level biochem. I forgot that not all schools structure it that way... If you only need to take a 200 or 300 level biochem then you can probably do without orgo II...

They were both prerequisite classes at my school too, and it was the same biochem class the grad students took.

 

[katsmiaow]

In all serious though, Orgo is less about your profs and more about what you put into it. It's just a lot of material. Yes, I've had "bad professors" but in the end, you have to earn your own grade and not make excuses.

I think this is an important point, Emiloo. Having a great professor certainly makes things easier -- and it would be nice if all professors were enthusiastic and able to make material accessible to their students -- but unfortunately that's just not the case. It is possible to do well, however, despite any shortcomings of professors. After vet school, there will still be the requirement to learn new things, in order to keep up with advances in the field, so self-teaching is an important skill to have.

Organic chemistry is one of those classes that is mentally challenging, and requires a LOT of work and a sustained interest in a subject that you might not care much about. For that reason, it's considered a "filter" class by a lot of pre-professional programs: if you can do well with this type of course, you will probably be able to handle other such courses that you will inevitably come across in professional programs.

There was a paper published a few years ago suggesting that organic chemistry grades are linked to ability to succeed in vet school. (Sorry, cant find the link just now). We can argue about the statistical significance of this -- and certainly there are arguments for and against -- but ultimately a lot of schools view this as being true.

Kernel, I might look into why you are doing poorly in OChem I before proceeding with OChem II. Are you having problems with concepts? Is there a professor you could get some tutoring from? It's probably a good idea to sort out any problems you are having before you proceed. It is possible to do very poorly in OChem I, only to recover and get an A in OChem II, but it takes a lot of work.

 

[breenie]

I had two great orgo professors. You know, as good as they get. I got A's...

But like everyone else who was really successful, I was practically mumbling mechanisms in my sleep. I put 3x as much effort into those classes as my normal ones.

My boyfriend is an organic chem grad student and TA. His advice? Do the problems. All of them. Do them again. Ask someone if you can't do them. Do the problems until you cry.

Also "come to class", but he's biased. I didn't do that one as much. 😉

 

[scb44f]

Do the problems until you cry.

True story. I took I and II three years apart. The first class sucked because the professor did not go in any specific order, but I did poorly because I didn't put in the necessary time to figure it al out. When I finally took II, I approached it much differently, rewriting each day's notes, doing every problem, making a sheet before each test of all the types of reactions we had learned, and then the day before each test, I redid all the homeworks and problems and the sheet I had made. I put in a lot of time for that class and it showed in my grade.

Also, I didn't mean to suggest that it's a smart idea to just jump into biochem without having organic II if it is a prereq. Definitely talk to others and the professor first to get an idea of how the class is.

 

[dvmdreamer]

I managed a B (I think because everyone else in the class did so poorly as well) and decided to go onto Ochem II with a different prof. BIG mistake. The class picked up exactly where Ochem I left off with no review and I was completely lost because I didn't remember or understand at least the last quarter of the Ochem I material. I dropped it after the first exam (there was no way I was pulling that one out of the hole

I had the same experience. I went ahead and took Biochem without OChem II also. I passed with a C+, but definitely did not understand things as much as I should have. I would recommend retaking OchemI if you feel weak.

I am actually retaking OChemI this next semester with a teacher who has a reputation for being excellent. I got a B+ in lecture and an A in lab the first time around, but the lecture didn't cover what is needed for subsequent classes. We basically learned how to draw structures and name things. No mechanisms what-so-ever. I want to make sure I'm solid on the basics and not continue to struggle with them as I learn new material. I'm trying to decide if I want to take it as an audit or for a grade. I am taking a heavy semester, and would like to not have to worry about my grade in the class since I got acceptable grades the first time. Does anyone think it will be weird to have it as an audit on my transcript?