Continuing Education Requirements/PhD/PsyD/MA/MS

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Psyclops

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I'm interested instartinga dialogue about continuing education requirements for practitioners in the mental health field. I think that it can be argued that our field is still developing, and developing rapidly at that. Given that the field is advancing at a rapid rate, I think that practioners have a responsibility to keep up with the most current empiricaly supported treatments. My concern is that providers who have not been given a thorough training in research (i.e., Mid-level providers, and PsyDs) might not accord new research the adequate amount of respect. They might even resent it and rebel against it.

I readily admit that I don't know what the continuing ed. requirements are, are they sufficient? Are all levels of providers held to similar standards? Should they be?
 
🙄


OF COURSE there should be continuing education requirements for ALL in the field. It is even mandatory to remain on par with licensure requirements. Is it not? Or did you not know this? Wait, maybe this is yet another ploy to start a debate about PsyDs vs. PHDs vs. Masters level practioners. 😉 😱 :idea:


Let me lay it out for you....

PHDs WILL almost ALWAYS value research more than PsyDs and masters level (depending on if it is a clinical or research focused degree) folks. They have CHOSEN that area within clinical psychology to focus on. PsyDs are trained to to value the content of supported empirical research and incorporate that into their work. MA level practioners depend on reserach I would hope to shape their work, whatever it is. PHDs produce it and the rest adhere and/or incorprate it into their practice. Just because it isnt their focus doesnt mean they value it any less than others.

As for your comment/supposition that PsyDs and MAs would be resentful-its a weak attempt to start another debate which has been done AD NAUSEUM on this forum. Its not needed. We have been there. Dont that. No need to do it again.


Please?

and

Thank you

🙂
 
Well Anna,
That is one way to take my post. If you bring (or progect) teh PhD/PsyD argument to this post and only see it going that way you are free to not participate. Nevertheless, I would appreciate a dialogue that would inform me and others about what requirements are generally, and if anyone ses any problems with them or not. Or is htere room for improvement? Or, maybe since the original requirements for training and licensure are not the same for all of the degrees maybe continuing ed should be different?
 
No projecting here. Ive just seen the original post before, you just gave it a different color. 🙂

I'll participate. This should be good.

I'll entertain your sincere intentions.

Let's take a go at it shall we?

*CERs are state specific.

*They are required of all licensed individuals practicing psychology, counseling and social work.

They all have different governing bodies which dictate what requirements need to be met on a yearly basis and for license renewal. Now being that clinical, counseling and social work all have varying focuses, there are some aspects of the field that will be more important than the others.

PHD--mostly research focused. They conduct and produce research.

PsyDs--practice focused but taught to value the research used in their practice and applications. Empirically supported research supports their practice.

MAs/MSWs-can be practice OR research focused.

Research is the basis by which all practioners base their treatment. Some value it enough to conduct and produce it while others simply choose to be consumers and apply the research. Choosing the latter doesnt make you "resentful or rebellious", therefore your error in assuming or proposing that anything other than a PHD would detest reesarch. 🙂
 
Psyclops said:
I'm interested instartinga dialogue about continuing education requirements for practitioners in the mental health field. I think that it can be argued that our field is still developing, and developing rapidly at that. Given that the field is advancing at a rapid rate, I think that practioners have a responsibility to keep up with the most current empiricaly supported treatments. My concern is that providers who have not been given a thorough training in research (i.e., Mid-level providers, and PsyDs) might not accord new research the adequate amount of respect. They might even resent it and rebel against it.

I readily admit that I don't know what the continuing ed. requirements are, are they sufficient? Are all levels of providers held to similar standards? Should they be?


Just to add:

I understand your INTENT (giving you the benefit here) but you colored it with the resentful comment...lol.

I dont know that ALL levels can be held to the same requirements because they are all governed differently-LPC/LICSW/Licensed psychologist.

I dont see how you are making that comparison because if research inherently isnt your focus/you arent "taught" that in school then how/why should you be held responsible outside of adhering to license/continuing ed requirements?
 
How are or should clinical skills evaluated for the continuance of licensure? I've heard that some MD specialties have to be tested from time to time, and perform certain procedures on cadavers for example to remain licensed. Should there be similar requirements set in place for mental health practitioners? Do clinicians have to submit a record of some sorts detailing how many ours etc. they have spent over the last year?

Which brings me to another point, I've heard that their is a certain amount of misdiagnosis taht clinicians engage in to get 3rd party reimbursement. I could see how this could begin to deteriorate the fields credibility. Should practitioners begin to stand up o managed health care, or should there be a massive overhaul to the DSM system of clasification. That is assuming practioners are right all along.
 
Psyclops said:
How are or should clinical skills evaluated for the continuance of licensure?

You have to remember that folks usually have peer supervision whether it is on the student or professional/licensed level. This in and of itself is a way of having your peers/supervisor evaluate you in your work, whatever aspect of it you choose. I was surprised to learn of this from my professor who works in private practice but she says it continues even into retirement.


I've heard that some MD specialties have to be tested from time to time, and perform certain procedures on cadavers for example to remain licensed.

Should there be similar requirements set in place for mental health practitioners?

You can't compare what an MD to a psychologist/therapist. There are more inherent liabilities for an MD then there is for a psychologist/therapist. I would expect them to be held to higher standards because they literally have someone's life in their hands on the surgical table. How would you propose they do this for clinicians? What we do is so subjective whereas MDs have clearcut guidelines for every area of practice. As clinicians there are a variety of modalities that can be used to treat someone whereas in medicine the its often clear what to do.

Do clinicians have to submit a record of some sorts detailing how many ours etc. they have spent over the last year?

Yes, they do. They have to submit/prove that they completed a certain number of units each year. Its often called CEUs-Continuing education Units-lawyers and psychologists do this inaddition to social workers and profesional counselors.

Which brings me to another point, I've heard that their is a certain amount of misdiagnosis taht clinicians engage in to get 3rd party reimbursement. I could see how this could begin to deteriorate the fields credibility. Should practitioners begin to stand up o managed health care, or should there be a massive overhaul to the DSM system of clasification. That is assuming practioners are right all along.

I think I know what you are getting at. Axis II disorders are often NOT/if at all billed to insurance companies because of the dismal outlook for treatment. From what I undertand insurance companies will not reimburse for Axis II treatment. There are some clients who only have an axis II and there are some that have diagnoses on both. The diagnosis given typically is Adjustment disorder if the clinician doesnt want to hurt the clients chances of receiving treatment OR getting insurance or a job down the line.

Ive worked at a CMHA and they are also reluctant to diagnose on the Axis II for similar reasons, however there are times that they did.

I dont think that clinicians are being malicious is writing in Deferred-Axis II and/or Adjustment D/O on Axis I. Until the managed care system changes, this is what we have got to work with. It matters not WHAT we diagnose for but HOW the treatment is carried out.

HTH!!!!!!!
 
Some states like NY and a handfull of other require no continuing education.
 
That's surprising. From what I understand NY has some of the more stringent requirements for licensure. Maybe they think that if you can pass them you shouldn't have to keep it up.

Something I was hoping to target with this post is the rift, perceived or actual, between practitioners and researchers. Asuming this rift does exist (this is not PhD v. PsyD, its researcher v. practitioner) why has it come about?
 
actually that assumption isn't far off if you operationally define "pure clinician" as one who purports to use and/or develop intervention protocols that aren't rooted in empirical findings.
 
ever watch a tennis match on tv? then you've done EMDR.
 
If you do not know EMDR then you are not a psychologist or anywhere near becoming one. I had asked you state your position in the field earlier, but you did not want to. A simple google search would have given you all the info you needed.
 
Oohhhh, Egotistical Moderator Doesn't Reveal?? That EMDR? I appreciate the anonimity of this forum, sorry, I enter a PhD program this fall.
 
Psici-

"egotistical ed" :laugh:

Sit.Down.

This is a forum.

None of us really care for the egotistical nonsense that tends to surface from you at times. Especially those that are used to it like myself. Some do choose to remain anonymous and not blast their credentials on a public forum--ITS OKAY- Relax, its not that serious. We're here to disemminate information right? The tone in your post was rather irritating. Fall.back. Regroup. Try.again. :meanie:
 
I believe I have revealed what I do many times over. Anonymity is fine but if you are going to make statements you had better be ready to support them with something.......... Otherwise we are on MYSpace, and that is not what I wish this to be.
 
psisci said:
I believe I have revealed what I do many times over.

And most of us dont care. Its a forum You're a moderator of a public psychology forum woopee!! WE create the atmosphere, as without us you are simply a MOD with an empty forum. As long as we are abiding by general SDN rules then we should be ok. Cmon now...loosen up those shoulders :laugh: That put things in perspective?

Sweets I am also a moderator of another forum. Again, its not that serious. You will live if someone deviates from your proposed vision. This is the studentdoctor.net forum-PsyD/PHD section, not PsiciSpace. Leave that website for the little ones shall we?


Anonymity is fine but if you are going to make statements you had better be ready to support them with something.......... Otherwise we are on MYSpace, and that is not what I wish this to be.


HTH!!!!!!
 
And I agree with you on the OP not supporting his statements with ANY facts or research done on his part. We have merely given answers while he makes suppositions.

Just so we have that clear. 🙂
 
I really like the way this post is going, really, I like the antagonism and being attacked for no reason. I appreciate those of you who've stuck up for me. I also appreciate that it could be frustrating if I don't properly prepare for an arguemnt (Annakei, 2006). But, I have to say, I would appreciate a little more patience, or maybe the benefit of the doubt. If I wanted to look things up on google I would, I prefer to hear it from some peers (more or less).
 
Back to the topic....
I agree with Jon, the distinction of researcher/clinician is often drawn down the PhD/PsyD lines, and it shouldn't be, and he makes a very good point that PhDs are more likely to go into practice than not. So the mix of those practicing, and the ammount of training, reasearch and otherwise, that they receive differs greatly. I'd imagine that there is an ideal to be pursued, in balancing practical and research training for those planning on hanging up a shingle, but in actuality I don't think that the field has acheived that ideal. And to the extent that people will dontinue to practice from differning training models the field will have to reconcile what it wants with what the pragmatics are. One way of dictating what type of clinicians will be produced is to set licensing requirements (or continuing ed requirements) that will get at that.
 
Annakei called me sweets 😍 !!!

Sorry for snapping at you psyclops. I have a bit of a low tolerance for certain things and misread your point. Even though Ann wants to keep me to herself and not let anyone else know what I do I will say. I am clinical psychologist, with a PsyD (no name school) in Ca. I work in medical settings, and have RxP training (NMSU and Alliant). These are the facts. I was not wanting to know what street you live on, but just where you are in the process so I can better regulate my responses....... No problem if you don't want to share.
 
Jon Snow said:
No, it's not clear. The OP asked a question as an incoming Ph.D. student that has a certain logic to it. . . the idea being that some non-research oriented programs may not afford the best platform or attract the right kind of students to address advances in the field of psychology over time. With the proliferation of unsupported "treatments" like EMDR and thought field therapy, I think it's an interesting question.

Also, your Ph.D. = research and Psy.D. = practice mantra is as wrong today as it has ever been. There is substantial variability across programs (both Ph.D. and Psy.D.). Moreover, most Ph.D.s do not go into academia. They are clinicians. Throwing the researcher/clinician distinction as a way of parsing PhD from PsyD really mucks things up. What would be more useful in my opinion would be this line of questions. How do clinicians trained from a Boulder model approach differ from clinicians trained from a Vail model approach? Which training model produces better clinicians? How does training influence the effectiveness of CEUs?

The OP question flows nicely into this line of inquiry. I argue that the Boulder model in general trains clinicians to better appreciate and comprehend research, to be able to understand the difference between good and bad research and how to apply it. It's a different emphasis.





Don't you think that's a little bit of an overreaction? Did he say anything about stopping anyone from posting? Define "should be ok." He gave an opinion and you jumped down his throat for no apparent reason. . . Typical woman 🙂


:laugh:

I think you're wrong and I will leave it at that. You're whole commentary is loaded. 🙂
 
psisci said:
Annakei called me sweets 😍 !!!

Sorry for snapping at you psyclops. I have a bit of a low tolerance for certain things and misread your point. Even though Ann wants to keep me to herself and not let anyone else know what I do I will say. I am clinical psychologist, with a PsyD (no name school) in Ca. I work in medical settings, and have RxP training (NMSU and Alliant). These are the facts. I was not wanting to know what street you live on, but just where you are in the process so I can better regulate my responses....... No problem if you don't want to share.


:laugh: :laugh:

You're a riot! :laugh: I laughed out loud for that one! Gosh do I ever know what you do!

Im running out but will comment later. Truly, I am interested in the PHD v. PsyD debate for various reasons and always open to hear/read opinions on the matter as I have recently decided that the PHD route (albeit Im interested in ONE school) is best for me.


JonSnow-yes I am a woman and if you understood my intentions and dynamics with Psici you'd know that I enjoy ripping him a new one every now and then. No harm intended. :laugh:
 
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