Cook County/Stroger IM malignant residency

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Fazzari

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This post reflects the collective views of a few Cook County/Stroger Internal Medicine residents. The reason for this is to increase awareness given our first hand experience in hopes to enforce change.

I, like many of my fellow foreign resident colleagues, came here looking for a positive American experience. But the culture and intolerant mentality of our Internal medicine department administration makes you regret setting foot here. The reasons for this are your ward attendings, firm ABC attendings, chief residents and program directors. Their primary goal here is to constantly butcher, terrorize and intimidate in order to maintain ownership over the residents. The environment is by default very accusational as everything is “your fault”. This place is strictly resident-run, so do not expect to sit for even a single second. Do not expect any appreciation for those long back-breaking hours you put in. But come morning-report, be ready to literally be fingered up the @$$ for what you did NOT do in the wee hours of your night-call while admitting, cross-covering, running Codes---all while you are functioning as the procedure service, RN, the phlebotomist, transport and sometimes janitor. Given these circumstances, you are going to make mistakes---Why else would you be in training? As expected with such a malignant program, nothing is confidential. A small dispute with a senior resident/attending will be magnified to such an extent that you will be subjected to work with those same abrasive people repeatedly. It is their sick and sadistic approach for some reality show entertainment, so bend over. Three residents did leave this year due to related issues.

Given that there are no research opportunities, one is better off going to any other community program where there is little to no scut work, a supportive environment and a decent work/life balance. Fellowship opportunities are just as limited because of funding and politics. County will boast about their commitments with Rush/UIC, but both of these hospitals have their own qualified IM residents going for these same fellowships. The attendings and directors at County have little to no power outside of this institution, however they will gladly go out of their way to sabotage your fellowship chances internally. Do not be fooled by the lovely smiles of our female directors, this is a very TOXIC program with lots of empty promises and shattered dreams.

Overall, a very hostile program in west Chicago with unhappy residents and faculty. The malignant administration/PDs do very little to improve these areas in order to make resident experiences rewarding. This is a resident-run program with way much time spent doing actual physical work. The didactics are good if you are caught up with your work by noon, however given the time-constraints and pressure to 'get things done' with little help from lazy seniors at times, you will most likely sign in and then page yourself out. Attendings contribute very little to patient care and usually are gone by 1pm. During night-calls, there is no attending coverage---good luck getting a hold of the sleepy specialty fellows. Given that there are limited slots available throughout, i.e. scheduling CTs, MRI, surgery, echo, etc---you are usually fighting like a hungry pitbull just to prioritize your patients. The staff throughout the hospital is unionized, so they have no motivation to work hard at all, meaning YOU must get everything done. This of course leads to very limited personal time outside of work, as you will be too exhausted to study, spend time with family or even go out with buddies to see Chicago.

Counting down the days until graduation! Cheers and good luck in the Match!!

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This post reflects the collective views of a few Cook County/Stroger Internal Medicine residents. The reason for this is to increase awareness given our first hand experience in hopes to enforce change.

I, like many of my fellow foreign resident colleagues, came here looking for a positive American experience. But the culture and intolerant mentality of our Internal medicine department administration makes you regret setting foot here. The reasons for this are your ward attendings, firm ABC attendings, chief residents and program directors. Their primary goal here is to constantly butcher, terrorize and intimidate in order to maintain ownership over the residents. The environment is by default very accusational as everything is “your fault”. This place is strictly resident-run, so do not expect to sit for even a single second. Do not expect any appreciation for those long back-breaking hours you put in. But come morning-report, be ready to literally be fingered up the @$$ for what you did NOT do in the wee hours of your night-call while admitting, cross-covering, running Codes---all while you are functioning as the procedure service, RN, the phlebotomist, transport and sometimes janitor. Given these circumstances, you are going to make mistakes---Why else would you be in training? As expected with such a malignant program, nothing is confidential. A small dispute with a senior resident/attending will be magnified to such an extent that you will be subjected to work with those same abrasive people repeatedly. It is their sick and sadistic approach for some reality show entertainment, so bend over. Three residents did leave this year due to related issues.

Given that there are no research opportunities, one is better off going to any other community program where there is little to no scut work, a supportive environment and a decent work/life balance. Fellowship opportunities are just as limited because of funding and politics. County will boast about their commitments with Rush/UIC, but both of these hospitals have their own qualified IM residents going for these same fellowships. The attendings and directors at County have little to no power outside of this institution, however they will gladly go out of their way to sabotage your fellowship chances internally. Do not be fooled by the lovely smiles of our female directors, this is a very TOXIC program with lots of empty promises and shattered dreams.

Overall, a very hostile program in west Chicago with unhappy residents and faculty. The malignant administration/PDs do very little to improve these areas in order to make resident experiences rewarding. This is a resident-run program with way much time spent doing actual physical work. The didactics are good if you are caught up with your work by noon, however given the time-constraints and pressure to 'get things done' with little help from lazy seniors at times, you will most likely sign in and then page yourself out. Attendings contribute very little to patient care and usually are gone by 1pm. During night-calls, there is no attending coverage---good luck getting a hold of the sleepy specialty fellows. Given that there are limited slots available throughout, i.e. scheduling CTs, MRI, surgery, echo, etc---you are usually fighting like a hungry pitbull just to prioritize your patients. The staff throughout the hospital is unionized, so they have no motivation to work hard at all, meaning YOU must get everything done. This of course leads to very limited personal time outside of work, as you will be too exhausted to study, spend time with family or even go out with buddies to see Chicago.

Counting down the days until graduation! Cheers and good luck in the Match!!

quoted for posterity

bet someone will try to delete this post within 48 hours
 
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I understand the attempt to put the program in a bad light, but your description brings back memories for me like any good ole hard core IM residency program. Harder and more intensity as a resident = better doctor.
 
I totally agree that higher intensity and hard work contributes to being a great doc. I just wanted to make it clear that along with the hard work and intensity, you will deal with plenty of malignant players that will make it a very unhappy and hostile environment. Some people are okay with that, while others are looking for more. I have no issues with hard work, that's a given during training.
 
I understand the attempt to put the program in a bad light, but your description brings back memories for me like any good ole hard core IM residency program. Harder and more intensity as a resident = better doctor.

The graph of "how good a doc you'll be" vs "intensity" isn't linear to infinity but is rather bell shaped and maxes out somewhere in intensity, where if you keep adding intensity past that point you end up making a worse doc for the trouble. Add in malignancy and an unappreciative attitude, and it makes for work often too traumatic to even learn in.
 
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This post reflects the collective views of a few Cook County/Stroger Internal Medicine residents. The reason for this is to increase awareness given our first hand experience in hopes to enforce change.

I, like many of my fellow foreign resident colleagues, came here looking for a positive American experience. But the culture and intolerant mentality of our Internal medicine department administration makes you regret setting foot here. The reasons for this are your ward attendings, firm ABC attendings, chief residents and program directors. Their primary goal here is to constantly butcher, terrorize and intimidate in order to maintain ownership over the residents. The environment is by default very accusational as everything is “your fault”. This place is strictly resident-run, so do not expect to sit for even a single second. Do not expect any appreciation for those long back-breaking hours you put in. But come morning-report, be ready to literally be fingered up the @$$ for what you did NOT do in the wee hours of your night-call while admitting, cross-covering, running Codes---all while you are functioning as the procedure service, RN, the phlebotomist, transport and sometimes janitor. Given these circumstances, you are going to make mistakes---Why else would you be in training? As expected with such a malignant program, nothing is confidential. A small dispute with a senior resident/attending will be magnified to such an extent that you will be subjected to work with those same abrasive people repeatedly. It is their sick and sadistic approach for some reality show entertainment, so bend over. Three residents did leave this year due to related issues.

Given that there are no research opportunities, one is better off going to any other community program where there is little to no scut work, a supportive environment and a decent work/life balance. Fellowship opportunities are just as limited because of funding and politics. County will boast about their commitments with Rush/UIC, but both of these hospitals have their own qualified IM residents going for these same fellowships. The attendings and directors at County have little to no power outside of this institution, however they will gladly go out of their way to sabotage your fellowship chances internally. Do not be fooled by the lovely smiles of our female directors, this is a very TOXIC program with lots of empty promises and shattered dreams.

Overall, a very hostile program in west Chicago with unhappy residents and faculty. The malignant administration/PDs do very little to improve these areas in order to make resident experiences rewarding. This is a resident-run program with way much time spent doing actual physical work. The didactics are good if you are caught up with your work by noon, however given the time-constraints and pressure to 'get things done' with little help from lazy seniors at times, you will most likely sign in and then page yourself out. Attendings contribute very little to patient care and usually are gone by 1pm. During night-calls, there is no attending coverage---good luck getting a hold of the sleepy specialty fellows. Given that there are limited slots available throughout, i.e. scheduling CTs, MRI, surgery, echo, etc---you are usually fighting like a hungry pitbull just to prioritize your patients. The staff throughout the hospital is unionized, so they have no motivation to work hard at all, meaning YOU must get everything done. This of course leads to very limited personal time outside of work, as you will be too exhausted to study, spend time with family or even go out with buddies to see Chicago.

Counting down the days until graduation! Cheers and good luck in the Match!!

Cook county is actually a good program for learning. One of my great friends just finished there and is actually starting his own group medical practice in southern Illinois.

Maybe you should go back to your country or man up and quit the program. You sound like an unhappy sexist turd.
 
I am very sorry to hear that you are having a bad time :-( I offer you my sincere wishes that things should get better for you :)

This post reflects the collective views of a few Cook County/Stroger Internal Medicine residents. The reason for this is to increase awareness given our first hand experience in hopes to enforce change.

I, like many of my fellow foreign resident colleagues, came here looking for a positive American experience. But the culture and intolerant mentality of our Internal medicine department administration makes you regret setting foot here. The reasons for this are your ward attendings, firm ABC attendings, chief residents and program directors. Their primary goal here is to constantly butcher, terrorize and intimidate in order to maintain ownership over the residents. The environment is by default very accusational as everything is “your fault”. This place is strictly resident-run, so do not expect to sit for even a single second. Do not expect any appreciation for those long back-breaking hours you put in. But come morning-report, be ready to literally be fingered up the @$$ for what you did NOT do in the wee hours of your night-call while admitting, cross-covering, running Codes---all while you are functioning as the procedure service, RN, the phlebotomist, transport and sometimes janitor. Given these circumstances, you are going to make mistakes---Why else would you be in training? As expected with such a malignant program, nothing is confidential. A small dispute with a senior resident/attending will be magnified to such an extent that you will be subjected to work with those same abrasive people repeatedly. It is their sick and sadistic approach for some reality show entertainment, so bend over. Three residents did leave this year due to related issues.

Given that there are no research opportunities, one is better off going to any other community program where there is little to no scut work, a supportive environment and a decent work/life balance. Fellowship opportunities are just as limited because of funding and politics. County will boast about their commitments with Rush/UIC, but both of these hospitals have their own qualified IM residents going for these same fellowships. The attendings and directors at County have little to no power outside of this institution, however they will gladly go out of their way to sabotage your fellowship chances internally. Do not be fooled by the lovely smiles of our female directors, this is a very TOXIC program with lots of empty promises and shattered dreams.

Overall, a very hostile program in west Chicago with unhappy residents and faculty. The malignant administration/PDs do very little to improve these areas in order to make resident experiences rewarding. This is a resident-run program with way much time spent doing actual physical work. The didactics are good if you are caught up with your work by noon, however given the time-constraints and pressure to 'get things done' with little help from lazy seniors at times, you will most likely sign in and then page yourself out. Attendings contribute very little to patient care and usually are gone by 1pm. During night-calls, there is no attending coverage---good luck getting a hold of the sleepy specialty fellows. Given that there are limited slots available throughout, i.e. scheduling CTs, MRI, surgery, echo, etc---you are usually fighting like a hungry pitbull just to prioritize your patients. The staff throughout the hospital is unionized, so they have no motivation to work hard at all, meaning YOU must get everything done. This of course leads to very limited personal time outside of work, as you will be too exhausted to study, spend time with family or even go out with buddies to see Chicago.

Counting down the days until graduation! Cheers and good luck in the Match!!
 
Unhappy is true. Sexist turd is uncalled for.

hmm??? why mention female here? I think my comment is partially called for..no need to qualify the directors.

"Do not be fooled by the lovely smiles of our female directors, this is a very TOXIC program with lots of empty promises and shattered dreams."
 
I rotated through CCH a few times as a med student circa 2002-4 and boy does this post bring back memories! Especially the time spent at the old hospital, what a stinking cesspit that was! You'd have to draw your own blood, do your own transport (of patients, blood, whatever), do your own discharges, argue with other services to get their help, etc.

I enjoyed the attendings and found their teaching excellent (for med students anyway), and the variety of pathology was amazing, but the scutwork was not to be believed. It was bad for me, so for the residents who had real responsibility it must have sucked royally.

I remember during my first ever IM rotation my resident asked me to get a patient scheduled for a CTPA and receiving unbelievable pushback from the radiology resident doing scheduling (yes, a resident doing scheduling!).The guy wouldn't cut me the slightest bit of slack being new to medicine, let alone CCH. I literally got my head chewed off. To some degree this was deserved, it was kind of a soft call CYA situation, but anywhere else the study would have been done no questions asked.

I remember morning rounds on "R3", which was I believe the CCU stepdown, and where they send all their ROMIs. The African attending(s) would absolutely skewer the post-call admitting residents. I recall one intern who was being grilled over a K of 6.3 from a hemolyzed blood sample that wasn't redrawn. The attending's first words were unforgettable "WHUT MEDEECAL SKOOL DEED YOU GO TO?" The blood ran out of the Russian intern's face.

The experience did a great job toughening me up for residency though. I'm not sure if my time at CCH is exactly why, but I learned to take responsibility and see every challenge through to completion. I think that made me a very effective anesthesia resident, and now pain specialist. One negative is that I think it made me kind of a hard-ass a-hole in terms of holding others to high standards when it seemed appropriate. I've had to unlearn some of that in residency, fellowship, and practice.

This post reflects the collective views of a few Cook County/Stroger Internal Medicine residents. The reason for this is to increase awareness given our first hand experience in hopes to enforce change.

I, like many of my fellow foreign resident colleagues, came here looking for a positive American experience. But the culture and intolerant mentality of our Internal medicine department administration makes you regret setting foot here. The reasons for this are your ward attendings, firm ABC attendings, chief residents and program directors. Their primary goal here is to constantly butcher, terrorize and intimidate in order to maintain ownership over the residents. The environment is by default very accusational as everything is "your fault". This place is strictly resident-run, so do not expect to sit for even a single second. Do not expect any appreciation for those long back-breaking hours you put in. But come morning-report, be ready to literally be fingered up the @$$ for what you did NOT do in the wee hours of your night-call while admitting, cross-covering, running Codes---all while you are functioning as the procedure service, RN, the phlebotomist, transport and sometimes janitor. Given these circumstances, you are going to make mistakes---Why else would you be in training? As expected with such a malignant program, nothing is confidential. A small dispute with a senior resident/attending will be magnified to such an extent that you will be subjected to work with those same abrasive people repeatedly. It is their sick and sadistic approach for some reality show entertainment, so bend over. Three residents did leave this year due to related issues.

Given that there are no research opportunities, one is better off going to any other community program where there is little to no scut work, a supportive environment and a decent work/life balance. Fellowship opportunities are just as limited because of funding and politics. County will boast about their commitments with Rush/UIC, but both of these hospitals have their own qualified IM residents going for these same fellowships. The attendings and directors at County have little to no power outside of this institution, however they will gladly go out of their way to sabotage your fellowship chances internally. Do not be fooled by the lovely smiles of our female directors, this is a very TOXIC program with lots of empty promises and shattered dreams.

Overall, a very hostile program in west Chicago with unhappy residents and faculty. The malignant administration/PDs do very little to improve these areas in order to make resident experiences rewarding. This is a resident-run program with way much time spent doing actual physical work. The didactics are good if you are caught up with your work by noon, however given the time-constraints and pressure to 'get things done' with little help from lazy seniors at times, you will most likely sign in and then page yourself out. Attendings contribute very little to patient care and usually are gone by 1pm. During night-calls, there is no attending coverage---good luck getting a hold of the sleepy specialty fellows. Given that there are limited slots available throughout, i.e. scheduling CTs, MRI, surgery, echo, etc---you are usually fighting like a hungry pitbull just to prioritize your patients. The staff throughout the hospital is unionized, so they have no motivation to work hard at all, meaning YOU must get everything done. This of course leads to very limited personal time outside of work, as you will be too exhausted to study, spend time with family or even go out with buddies to see Chicago.

Counting down the days until graduation! Cheers and good luck in the Match!!
 
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The attending's first words were unforgettable "WHUT MEDEECAL SKOOL DEED YOU GO TO?" The blood ran out of the Russian intern's face.

HAHAHHAHA!! I enjoyed reading your experience and I think I know which attending you're referring to ;) Everyone at this hospital is way too dramatic.
 
I have heard many, many tales similar to the OPs from the unfortunate residents and medical students that had to deal with that program. One of my classmates decided to interview there because he really wanted to end up in Chicago. Apparently the interviewers were crassly rude and the PD was downright nasty - she asked him what the hell he was doing there since they vastly prefer FMGs, and so on. It's also one of those places where they pimp the interviewees hard.

The pathology is amazing...Stroger and UC are the two hospitals with the highest patient complexity scores in the city of Chicago...but you could get similar exposure at any number of programs with county hospital affiliates. At the end of the day, Stroger is a known malignant FMG farm. Avoid...
 
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the graph of "how good a doc you'll be" vs "intensity" isn't linear to infinity but is rather bell shaped and maxes out somewhere in intensity, where if you keep adding intensity past that point you end up making a worse doc for the trouble. Add in malignancy and an unappreciative attitude, and it makes for work often too traumatic to even learn in.

+100
 
These kinds of posts still make me sad...
I think it is still "better", in terms of training, probably, to go to this type of residency if your choice is between this and some cushy private hospital that is too small to have a decent sized ICU or sufficient number and complexity of patients. But it's still unfair and sad that there are programs around like this. A lot of programs have rotations like this...such as some VA's, county hospital rotations, etc. But when someone is in this type of rotation 11 or 12 months out of a year, that is a total beat-down. And I think this kind of situation comes from a conglomeration of different circumstances...lack of funding at these type hospitals, the fact a lot of them are in popular metropolitan areas (which will attract applicants even if the program is kind of a beat-down in terms of workload and lack of ancillary staff, or treats the house staff in a not-nice way, or both), and the fact that a lot of them are filled with IMG/FMG types who can't really bail/leave and may have had nowhere else to go.
 
Thank you for your input, I agree with the details you pointed out. If one is worried about the ICU/CCU experience here, well---let's break it down. The ICU itself is a step down from full-capacity given they are always limited with beds and will 'hold' beds with dear life. As an intern, my ICU experience was not so rewarding or confidence boosting. The fellows pull the triggers, so you aren't really making many decisions on your own. During your 3 year residency, you will have 2 (yes TWO) total months of ICU: 1 as an intern and 1 as a 3rd year. The CCU is never at full-capacity, you will see more empty beds than occupied beds. It's a joke.
 
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That's not good...although the "not making a lot of decisions in the ICU as an intern" thing is pretty common b/c those patients are really sick and an intern only a few months out of med school isn't necessarily the best person to be making a lot of decisions about them.
IMHO, as someone who trained in IM residency, it's optimal to have at least 3 MICU months during your training, unless perhaps you want to do only outpatient medicine...there is a lot to learn and I don't think 2 months is enough to learn it in.
That is interesting to learn about that particular program...there are some more "academic" programs though that also have this (only 2 MICU months and weak CCU months where there really aren't many ICU-level patients).
 
Thank you for your input, I agree with the details you pointed out. If one is worried about the ICU/CCU experience here, well---let's break it down. The ICU itself is a step down from full-capacity given they are always limited with beds and will 'hold' beds with dear life. As an intern, my ICU experience was not so rewarding or confidence boosting. The fellows pull the triggers, so you aren't really making many decisions on your own. During your 3 year residency, you will have 2 (yes TWO) total months of ICU: 1 as an intern and 1 as a 3rd year. The CCU is never at full-capacity, you will see more empty beds than occupied beds. It's a joke.

That's weird. At our county place in residency, we had too many sick people that "step down" usually had ICU-level patients, and "Floor" had step-down level patients if they were anywhere else. Had quite a tough time adjusting when I started work in a private hospital -- nurses would always call me saying they never handle those kinds of patients on the floor. LOL.
 
I didn't mean step-down in that sense, I should've used different terminology. Its a few beds from being filled at max-capacity I would say, just to give an idea of the ICU experience.
 
This post reflects the collective views of a few Cook County/Stroger Internal Medicine residents. The reason for this is to increase awareness given our first hand experience in hopes to enforce change.

I, like many of my fellow foreign resident colleagues, came here looking for a positive American experience. But the culture and intolerant mentality of our Internal medicine department administration makes you regret setting foot here. The reasons for this are your ward attendings, firm ABC attendings, chief residents and program directors. Their primary goal here is to constantly butcher, terrorize and intimidate in order to maintain ownership over the residents. The environment is by default very accusational as everything is “your fault”. This place is strictly resident-run, so do not expect to sit for even a single second. Do not expect any appreciation for those long back-breaking hours you put in. But come morning-report, be ready to literally be fingered up the @$$ for what you did NOT do in the wee hours of your night-call while admitting, cross-covering, running Codes---all while you are functioning as the procedure service, RN, the phlebotomist, transport and sometimes janitor. Given these circumstances, you are going to make mistakes---Why else would you be in training? As expected with such a malignant program, nothing is confidential. A small dispute with a senior resident/attending will be magnified to such an extent that you will be subjected to work with those same abrasive people repeatedly. It is their sick and sadistic approach for some reality show entertainment, so bend over. Three residents did leave this year due to related issues.

Given that there are no research opportunities, one is better off going to any other community program where there is little to no scut work, a supportive environment and a decent work/life balance. Fellowship opportunities are just as limited because of funding and politics. County will boast about their commitments with Rush/UIC, but both of these hospitals have their own qualified IM residents going for these same fellowships. The attendings and directors at County have little to no power outside of this institution, however they will gladly go out of their way to sabotage your fellowship chances internally. Do not be fooled by the lovely smiles of our female directors, this is a very TOXIC program with lots of empty promises and shattered dreams.

Overall, a very hostile program in west Chicago with unhappy residents and faculty. The malignant administration/PDs do very little to improve these areas in order to make resident experiences rewarding. This is a resident-run program with way much time spent doing actual physical work. The didactics are good if you are caught up with your work by noon, however given the time-constraints and pressure to 'get things done' with little help from lazy seniors at times, you will most likely sign in and then page yourself out. Attendings contribute very little to patient care and usually are gone by 1pm. During night-calls, there is no attending coverage---good luck getting a hold of the sleepy specialty fellows. Given that there are limited slots available throughout, i.e. scheduling CTs, MRI, surgery, echo, etc---you are usually fighting like a hungry pitbull just to prioritize your patients. The staff throughout the hospital is unionized, so they have no motivation to work hard at all, meaning YOU must get everything done. This of course leads to very limited personal time outside of work, as you will be too exhausted to study, spend time with family or even go out with buddies to see Chicago.

Counting down the days until graduation! Cheers and good luck in the Match!!

Holy crap that sounds terrible.
 
I understand the attempt to put the program in a bad light, but your description brings back memories for me like any good ole hard core IM residency program. Harder and more intensity as a resident = better doctor.

So a terrible residency makes a good doc?

Is there any evidence for this?
 
I am an IM resident in Chicago, and I know plenty of people who graduated from CCH or are still in CCH, and I am not surprised to hear what you are saying. And most of the residents there are walking Harrisons.

But everyone one in Chicago knows (IMHO), that CCH trained IM Docs are rock solid, nothing shakes them, they are on point. So there is some benefit to the intense training, the question is how much is too much?

I think it totally sucks that residents do all the scut work, scheduling, discharging, blood draws, transporting ect... It's cuz the Unionized nurse that sit around all day.

But if I recall correctly, there is a Resident Union there, why dont you turn to them??? The residents did go on strike a few years back according to a current resident, and in turn recieved higher pay.

Honestly be happy that you got into a residency, and in a happening place like Chicago, some of the best come from CCH, and it will get better once intern year is over..trust me on that.

Many before have complained, many have tried to change the system...its the nature of the beast, all of Chicago's unwanted and underserved come piling into a tight budgeted system, and I am sure you must of heard about how Notorious CCH is...

I suggest talking to a senior that you can trust and pherhaps get mentoring from, or You can always go to your resident union.

Best of luck.
 
As one of the former graduate of CCH, I know Cook County Hospital very well. I must say I'm very concerned by your trouble and negative experience you had there. It's very unfortunate; however, I humbly disagree with your entire description of Cook County Hospital. I, myself a foreign medical graduate, came to CCH looking for better experience and training. Yes, the program was very busy (taking in to account that it is an inner-city county hospital serving the underserved population in a tight budget). However, the training was very good and it prepared me very well for my future career. And I thought the fellowship-matching rate was also pretty decent. I, myself, got placement in to a competitive university fellowship program. In fact, this gave me the opportunity to reflect back on how well I was prepared at Cook County. Of course, you need to be proactive to do researches, which increases the chance of fellowship placement but I think that hold true to anyone at any institute. As far as I remember, the attendings were approachable. It is very sad that you feel this way. I would recommend that you talk to your seniors or any of the attending you feel at ease with. Best of luck!
 
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I am a resident in this program and I believe I have something to say. I was surprised and shocked to see this post. I came to know about this when a friend who knows I go to Cook County sent me an email with the link.
Dear Fazzari, let me first say that I am surprised that you feel this program has unhappy residents and faculty; to the contrary, there are a bunch of us who are actually happy (almost all of us I may say, except you of course apparently). I would have sworn this is a bit to discourage new applicants from ranking an otherwise competitive program to better your chances (which is also a bad idea BTW) if you didn't mention some things that are peculiar to our program. I would like to congratulate you on your use of words since it describes a place that may come off as hell for the un-suspecting. Let me describe how I see our program. (I'm not naiive and don't think that everything is perfect, but the program is actually on the other end of the spectrum from what you depicited).
First, you can ask any (and I mean any) CCH graduate how they felt when comparing themselves with other graduates in fellowship or work places, and you are likely than not to get a positive response. That shows how good the end-result is. About the method of arriving at that result, well there are different ways of teaching advocated for around the world, and you can actually see the different things that you can learn in the variety of the firms and attendings we have. Even the attendings I thought were not my favourites at first, ended up teaching me a lot of new things. I have never been personally attacked by anyone, nor have I witnessed such events around me. Of a certain individual that you may have pointed out regarding teaching methodology, this person is appreciated in the end by the senior residents in the firm that he/she works with (wait until you are a third year). Otherwise, if you thought people were going to look away when you make mistakes, or treat you like a spa-guest during your training, then my friend, you are not only in the wrong program, but also in the wrong profession; Being responsible for patients lives requires some sense of alertness and feeling of responsibility that is honed by the effective training we get in this program.
In regards to fellowship matches, you mentioned about it not being to your expectations. I don't know if you were here when last year's residents matched, but just in the firm that I am in, i was pleased to see that except one individual, everyone (I mean EVERYONE) went to the felloship of their choice. This is not high-school; You can't sit without doing anything and expect everything on a plate. Quaternary level education requires you to do your part for a result you expect.
I have to admit, being a inner city county hospital, you don't get things at the tip of your fingers (eg. you can't order MRI just to satisfy you urge; You have to have solid/real evidence to do so; BTW, that is another training by itself). There may be one or two departments that are not exactly as friendly as our own attendings (like the interventional radiologists), but the basic stuff always gets done.
So the way I see it, academics is excellent (I wouldn't replace my attendings for any other program's); Case variety is amazing (even you can't deny that); based on experiences from every past year, fellowship match rates are very good; There is a dedicated transport and phlebotomy service (though occasionally, when you want an urgent blood draw, you CAN do it yourself if you can't wait for the STAT phlebotomist to come); There is an excellent system for medical care hierarchy (if an intern can't do it, there is a resident right there; if s/he can't, the attending/CMR is always available; if it passes that, the firm chiefs will take care of it; medical/administrative issues rarely reach program chairman/program director due to the well devised system).
All in all, there is only one thing that I agree with you. I also am looking forward to my graduation, but not because I don't like my program, but because I'm excited to see what my future holds for me. I hope you solve your problems and finish your residency with a better feel for it. The above view is mine only. I intend to talk it over with my co-residents so that they will have their say too. Good luck buddy.
 
As one of the former graduate of CCH, I know Cook County Hospital very well. I must say I’m very concerned by your trouble and negative experience you had there. It’s very unfortunate; however, I humbly disagree with your entire description of Cook County Hospital. I, myself a foreign medical graduate, came to CCH looking for better experience and training. Yes, the program was very busy (taking in to account that it is an inner-city county hospital serving the underserved population in a tight budget). However, the training was very good and it prepared me very well for my future career. And I thought the fellowship-matching rate was also pretty decent. I, myself, got placement in to a competitive university fellowship program. In fact, this gave me the opportunity to reflect back on how well I was prepared at Cook County. Of course, you need to be proactive to do researches, which increases the chance of fellowship placement but I think that hold true to anyone at any institute. As far as I remember, the attendings were approachable. It is very sad that you feel this way. I would recommend that you talk to your seniors or any of the attending you feel at ease with. Best of luck!

I read this in a thick, Nigerian accent. It was awesome. :D
 
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I am currently a resident at County and my experience has been a very positive one. I understand that different people have different expectations going into resident, mine have been exceeded by our program. I have learned a lot, working alongside attendings and residents that have treated me with respect every step of the way. This program places a lot of importance to teaching and it never feels like you are going through the motions, you always need to think about what you’re doing and you have a lot of supervision. There are some attendings that are tougher than others, as expected, but I myself have never felt like their intentions are anything other than teaching the residents. From what I have seen during residency here, most people that applied to fellowships got into the fellowship of their choice, this is an extremely impressive fact considering that (as has been discussed at length above, most of the residents are International medical graduates, and for the most part on H1 visa). I don’t feel like our schedule is any tougher than any other program I have compared it to. Our department makes a great effort to ensure that we are all compliant with ACGME regulations, and we rarely come even close to the hour limit, interns do not have overnight calls and to me, most importantly there is no Night float service. Me and my friends have made the most of our time here, Chicago is an awesome City and I certainly have been able to enjoy it.There are of course a few obstacles in our hospital, but they are not exclusive to the IM program, rather the results of working in a system where resources are limited ( I wouldn’t go as far as calling them “scarce”). I can say that things have gotten better, and hopefuly will continue to, our program works hard to try to improve things but these changes take time. While furstrating for brief moments, these obstacles are never too much to handle and in my case, they have not hindered my learning experience.
My advice, if you will listen to it, is to try to block out whatever comments you see of a program prior to interviewing in it, you will have plenty of opportunities to ask the questions that are important to you and in the end you will have an idea that you create yourself rather than a biased one. We all know that negative experiences are more likely to be shared. If you do worry about these posts, make sure you ask these questions during your interview day.
By no means is this program “malignant”, I think it is excellent, I never for one minute regret coming here and this is a feeling that is shared by most of my co-residents.
Good luck
 
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I'm saddened by the first post in this thread. Let me start by saying I am an American medical graduate from Chicago, and Cook County Hospital is my second home. I couldn't be happier with my choice of residency training. First, the teaching is outstanding. Our attendings are genuinely concerned with the education of the house staff. Evidence based medicine is the rule, however besides teaching the most recent trials, our attendings make a concerted effort to foster our clinical reasoning and sharpen our general approach to all common complaints. Our departmental reports showcase some of the most interesting pathology a doctor in training could ask for, and thats a fact that cannot be refuted. Our Firm chiefs and directors are kind, caring and extremely intelligent individuals, who decide to remain at County because of how much they care for the success of the house staff and the mission of the hospital. Are there graduates from outside the U.S.? Yes. But I argue that this makes our program stronger. I have the privilege of working with great minds from around the world, and we all make each other better physicians. Do we have limited resources? Yes. Cook County is a safety net hospital, serving those who cannot get help elsewhere. Some tests take longer than they would elsewhere, however the essential things always get done. The days of residents doing routine blood draws and transporting patients are long gone, and the only blood we draw are blood cultures (which I prefer to do myself to limit contamination). When we all decide to enter medicine, I would like to think we do so because we want to help others. What greater calling is there for a physician than to help the people who need it the most, regardless of their financial, ethnic or social background? When we graduate from County, we go on to become leaders. For those who pursue fellowship, putting Stoger on your CV is a badge of honor. Program directors from around the nation know that they are getting a solid physician who knows their medicine backward and forward. Our board pass rates speak for themselves. The great majority of the house staff love our institution, and in the course of our time there it becomes a second home to all of us. I'm sad from reading the first post because I consider my co-residents to be family, and its unfortunate that one of my peers has a poor opinion of the place I hold near and dear. I believe no place in Chicago better prepares one to be an exceptional internal medicine physician than CCH.
 
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Looks like the letter-writing campaign has started up over at Cook County.
 
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I'm saddened by the first post in this thread. Let me start by saying I am an American medical graduate from Chicago, and Cook County Hospital is my second home. I couldn't be happier with my choice of residency training. First, the teaching is outstanding. Our attendings are genuinely concerned with the education of the house staff. Evidence based medicine is the rule, however besides teaching the most recent trials, our attendings make a concerted effort to foster our clinical reasoning and sharpen our general approach to all common complaints. Our departmental reports showcase some of the most interesting pathology a doctor in training could ask for, and thats a fact that cannot be refuted. Our Firm chiefs and directors are kind, caring and extremely intelligent individuals, who decide to remain at County because of how much they care for the success of the house staff and the mission of the hospital. Are there graduates from outside the U.S.? Yes. But I argue that this makes our program stronger. I have the privilege of working with great minds from around the world, and we all make each other better physicians. Do we have limited resources? Yes. Cook County is a safety net hospital, serving those who cannot get help elsewhere. Some tests take longer than they would elsewhere, however the essential things always get done. The days of residents doing routine blood draws and transporting patients are long gone, and the only blood we draw are blood cultures (which I prefer to do myself to limit contamination). When we all decide to enter medicine, I would like to think we do so because we want to help others. What greater calling is there for a physician than to help the people who need it the most, regardless of their financial, ethnic or social background? When we graduate from County, we go on to become leaders. For those who pursue fellowship, putting Stoger on your CV is a badge of honor. Program directors from around the nation know that they are getting a solid physician who knows their medicine backward and forward. Our board pass rates speak for themselves. The great majority of the house staff love our institution, and in the course of our time there it becomes a second home to all of us. I'm sad from reading the first post because I consider my co-residents to be family, and its unfortunate that one of my peers has a poor opinion of the place I hold near and dear. I believe no place in Chicago better prepares one to be an exceptional internal medicine physician than CCH.
Whoa easy there. You're praising them so much it almost seems like you're being sarcastic.
 
I rotated through CCH a few times as a med student circa 2002-4 and boy does this post bring back memories! Especially the time spent at the old hospital, what a stinking cesspit that was! You'd have to draw your own blood, do your own transport (of patients, blood, whatever), do your own discharges, argue with other services to get their help, etc.

I enjoyed the attendings and found their teaching excellent (for med students anyway), and the variety of pathology was amazing, but the scutwork was not to be believed. It was bad for me, so for the residents who had real responsibility it must have sucked royally.

I remember during my first ever IM rotation my resident asked me to get a patient scheduled for a CTPA and receiving unbelievable pushback from the radiology resident doing scheduling (yes, a resident doing scheduling!).The guy wouldn't cut me the slightest bit of slack being new to medicine, let alone CCH. I literally got my head chewed off. To some degree this was deserved, it was kind of a soft call CYA situation, but anywhere else the study would have been done no questions asked.

I remember morning rounds on "R3", which was I believe the CCU stepdown, and where they send all their ROMIs. The African attending(s) would absolutely skewer the post-call admitting residents. I recall one intern who was being grilled over a K of 6.3 from a hemolyzed blood sample that wasn't redrawn. The attending's first words were unforgettable "WHUT MEDEECAL SKOOL DEED YOU GO TO?" The blood ran out of the Russian intern's face.

The experience did a great job toughening me up for residency though. I'm not sure if my time at CCH is exactly why, but I learned to take responsibility and see every challenge through to completion. I think that made me a very effective anesthesia resident, and now pain specialist. One negative is that I think it made me kind of a hard-ass a-hole in terms of holding others to high standards when it seemed appropriate. I've had to unlearn some of that in residency, fellowship, and practice.

I also graduated from a malignant residency and the OP's post really resonated with me. Now that I am out in practice, I can definitely say I am a changed person. I really did enter residency as a naive intern, and came out a hardened man. Internship was hard on me, I lost 15 lbs my first year. We were overworked and it was incredibly intense. I remember counting down the days until I was out of that hell hole. Although I am now a strong physician and have nerves of steel, I am full of bitterness and resentment. I look at back at my residency years and there is no fondness, all I remember is a dark time in my life.
 
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Looks like the letter-writing campaign has started up over at Cook County.

Agreed. 3 of those posts look like they were written by the same person from 3 different brand new accounts.

I find that there are certain things people will say to rationalize malignant behavior.

1) We are doing this to maintain a standard of care
2) You owe it to the patients
3) We do this because we want you to be a better physician
4) An intense environment keeps you on your toes and fosters learning
5) With a high case load, you learn so much

So on and so forth..
 
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Wow! I just stumbled upon this today. I am an intern at CCH and I love it. Granted the 1st month freaked me out. But once you get the hang of it, it's really good. So far, my residents and attendings have taken the time to teach me. I have enjoyed morning reports and noon conferences and learnt a lot from them. I have never seen anyone being blamed for anything publicly. You are as an intern, supervised throughout but you do get to put your ideas forward durjng rounds.
I too was initially very annoyed by the fact that we have a 'gate keeper' for MRIs. I used to despice that I had to explain why I needed to get tte MRI and have it approved. But several months into internship, I actually feel like I have read so much more coz I was scared that my MRI request would be rejected. Here, at every step you actually need to think and figure out if there is evidence that doing a test would actually change management or the course of events, not just order it randomly and figure out the next step when you get the results. So you end up reading articles on the go about each patient and each case. And trust me our patients dont come here with just heartvfailure or COPD exacerbation of stroke. You see EVERYTHING and end up having to read everything!!
Am I tired at the end of the day? yes. Do I get 6 to 7 hours of sleep? yes. Do I get time to read? not during my 1st 3 months but after that, yes! Do I have a life outside of the hospital? ofcourse. Am I doing research? yes. Do I wish we had more phlebotomists to help us out? I do. Have I transported a patient? Twice in the last 9 months of internship. Do I feel confident going into second year? yes.
I know the match is over and what I say is not going to help any. But I couldnt just say nothing when the OP said **** about my program

And btw, I have never had an attending leave at 1 pm.
 
Wow! I just stumbled upon this today. I am an intern at CCH and I love it. Granted the 1st month freaked me out. But once you get the hang of it, it's really good. So far, my residents and attendings have taken the time to teach me. I have enjoyed morning reports and noon conferences and learnt a lot from them. I have never seen anyone being blamed for anything publicly. You are as an intern, supervised throughout but you do get to put your ideas forward durjng rounds.
I too was initially very annoyed by the fact that we have a 'gate keeper' for MRIs. I used to despice that I had to explain why I needed to get tte MRI and have it approved. But several months into internship, I actually feel like I have read so much more coz I was scared that my MRI request would be rejected. Here, at every step you actually need to think and figure out if there is evidence that doing a test would actually change management or the course of events, not just order it randomly and figure out the next step when you get the results. So you end up reading articles on the go about each patient and each case. And trust me our patients dont come here with just heartvfailure or COPD exacerbation of stroke. You see EVERYTHING and end up having to read everything!!
Am I tired at the end of the day? yes. Do I get 6 to 7 hours of sleep? yes. Do I get time to read? not during my 1st 3 months but after that, yes! Do I have a life outside of the hospital? ofcourse. Am I doing research? yes. Do I wish we had more phlebotomists to help us out? I do. Have I transported a patient? Twice in the last 9 months of internship. Do I feel confident going into second year? yes.
I know the match is over and what I say is not going to help any. But I couldnt just say nothing when the OP said **** about my program

And btw, I have never had an attending leave at 1 pm.
:lol:
 
Many of the posts in this thread are ridiculous. As a medical student in Chicago, you know if you want to see crazy $h!t you go to county. Yes the personalities are a bit rough around the edges but they have to be. That patient population will walk all over you if you don't stand up for yourself. So I can imagine how some FMGs can find this intimidating.

The other thing people always complain about is the FMGs, however most of them are absolutely brilliant. They may have the quirks of having english as a second language or not knowing how the flow of healthcare in the US works but they will have Harrisons basically memorized.

My roommate is a current IM resident at county, the scutwork is real and it sucks. Fortunately he has medical students he can often unload some of this on, which to the medical student is a gift from god actually being able to DO something.

I can tell you exactly why you go to county, to see things you CANNOT and WILL NOT see anywhere else. I'm talking about leprosy and things that are thought to be nonexistent but somehow creep up out of the south side of Chicago.

Chicago is more or less a war zone, this is no exaggeration, my roommate while on Trauma Surgery at county saw more GSW fatalities in one month than occurred in the ENTIRE country of Japan.

Japan's population = 120 million
Chicago population= 10 million
 
Many of the posts in this thread are ridiculous. As a medical student in Chicago, you know if you want to see crazy $h!t you go to county. Yes the personalities are a bit rough around the edges but they have to be. That patient population will walk all over you if you don't stand up for yourself. So I can imagine how some FMGs can find this intimidating.

The other thing people always complain about is the FMGs, however most of them are absolutely brilliant. They may have the quirks of having english as a second language or not knowing how the flow of healthcare in the US works but they will have Harrisons basically memorized.

My roommate is a current IM resident at county, the scutwork is real and it sucks. Fortunately he has medical students he can often unload some of this on, which to the medical student is a gift from god actually being able to DO something.

I can tell you exactly why you go to county, to see things you CANNOT and WILL NOT see anywhere else. I'm talking about leprosy and things that are thought to be nonexistent but somehow creep up out of the south side of Chicago.

Chicago is more or less a war zone, this is no exaggeration, my roommate while on Trauma Surgery at county saw more GSW fatalities in one month than occurred in the ENTIRE country of Japan.

Japan's population = 120 million
Chicago population= 10 million
:rolleyes::smack:
 
The other thing people always complain about is the FMGs, however most of them are absolutely brilliant.

qft. Many of them did residencies in their home country so your intern can have the knowledge of an attending, which is great for teaching.

I can tell you exactly why you go to county, to see things you CANNOT and WILL NOT see anywhere else.

Had a patient with tuberous sclerosis, which I thought was pretty interesting.
 
Care to respond with your experience as an IM resident at CCH?
The IMG resident "created" an account on SDN for the sole purpose of defending the program. It's no different than the CCF thread.
 
Why is it that all of the residents who like this program don't know how to use a space between paragraphs? That's a rather specific skill for 5 different people to be lacking...
 
Why is it that all of the residents who like this program don't know how to use a space between paragraphs? That's a rather specific skill for 5 different people to be lacking...
It's hard to remember that when you're an IMG resident trying to suck up to your program by going on SDN to tell what a great program it is. English is probably not their first language.
 
How is that sucking up to the program? Does the program director monitor which residents post in SDN and gives them pats on the back? They have the right to defend their program as they see fit. One man's poison is another man's meat. If you've not done a rotation there, let those who have speak of their experiences.
 
It's hard to remember that when you're an IMG resident trying to suck up to your program by going on SDN to tell what a great program it is.
I've noticed you're particularly venomous toward IMGs, often to the point where you're making no sense (such as above). What's your problem with them? Not only would we be down 1000s of residents if IMGs weren't a thing, but statistically loads of them are better than you, so park the superiority complex.
 
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I've noticed you're particularly venomous toward IMGs, often to the point where you're making no sense (such as above). What's your problem with them? Not only would we be down 1000s of residents if IMGs weren't a thing, but statistically loads of them are better than you, so park the superiority complex.

You'd be wrong. Not everyone fits the statistics. I would hope IMGs would be be "better" considering they've likely completed reidency and practice in their home countries vs. your typical MS-4 medical student. I do have a problem with them clearly lying about the program, with all evidence to the contrary and esp. when they just happen to create SDN accounts for the sole purpose of trying to boost the program in the minds of applicants due to ulterior motives.
 
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You'd be wrong. Not everyone fits the statistics. I would hope IMGs would be be "better" considering they've likely completed reidency and practice in their home countries vs. your typical MS-4 medical student. I do have a problem with them clearly lying about the program, with all evidence to the contrary and esp. when they just happen to create SDN accounts for the sole purpose of trying to boost the program in the minds of applicants due to ulterior motives.
Yeah, and to illustrate that point you paint them as illiterate idiots who can't multitask between using paragraphs and sucking up to their imaginary online PD. I'm sure your only gripe is with them defending their program...
 
Yeah, and to illustrate that point you paint them as illiterate idiots who can't multitask between using paragraphs and sucking up to their imaginary online PD. I'm sure your only gripe is with them defending their program...
If you think PDs, or more commonly their administrative assistants, aren't perusing the SDN forums to see what people are saying about their program you are a fool. Just see the Cleveland Clinic IM program thread.
 
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