Cornell free tuition for all need-based med students?

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Just got an email (forwarded by a graduate student at Cornell) that indicates Cornell will eliminate loans for those on need-based aid. Pasting it below. If so, this is a game changer. Very interesting to see how this plays out.

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Message from the Dean
To: WCM Community
Subject: Elimination of Medical Education Debt for All Qualifying Students
I am thrilled to announce a transformative new scholarship program that will eliminate medical education debt for all students who qualify for financial aid. The game-changing new financial aid program expands Weill Cornell Medicine’s scholarship offerings to provide debt-free education to all medical students with demonstrated financial need beginning with the 2019-2020 academic year and then every year thereafter.
The program is made possible by a lead gift from The Starr Foundation, directed by Weill Cornell Medicine Overseer Maurice R. Greenberg, in partnership with gifts from Joan and Board of Overseers Chairman Emeritus Sanford I. Weill and the Weill Family Foundation. Through these landmark gifts and those from other generous donors that together total $160 million, Weill Cornell Medicine will ensure that the best and brightest aspiring doctors have the financial support and freedom to seek careers in medicine.
The expanded financial aid program is built upon decades of philanthropy from numerous Weill Cornell Medicine benefactors whose gifts have established and strengthened the institution’s existing scholarship endowment—an achievement of more than $150 million, and the foundation on which this new scholarship program is built.
Historically, more than half of Weill Cornell Medicine’s medical students have received need-based scholarships. To help defray the cost of attendance, which averages $90,000 a year, these students have taken out loans to cover the difference. Now, under the new financial aid program, all medical students who qualify for aid will be able to forego that borrowing and have their medical education—including tuition, books, housing, food, and related expenses—covered by scholarships. Students pursuing dual M.D.-Ph.D. degrees, through a separate program, receive full tuition and stipends for living expenses from the National Institutes of Health and Weill Cornell Medicine. Together, these two programs will now enable two-thirds of Weill Cornell Medicine’s medical student body to graduate without debt.
For more information, please see the Newsroom story at:https://news.weill.cornell.edu/news/2019/09/weill-cornell-medicine-eliminates-medical-education-debt-for-all-qualifying-students
Beginning with the current 2019-2020 academic year, all enrolled medical students who have applied for financial aid and demonstrated financial needwill no longer be required to take out loans. Going forward, the Weill Cornell Medicine financial aid program will not offer or require any loans as part of the financial aid package. This process will require current students to complete some paperwork to switch the unit loan to grant funding. The Financial Aid Office has set aside times for students to meet with staff for additional details, so please visit their website at studentservices.weill.cornell.edu/financial-aid to set up an appointment.
This is truly a momentous day for all of us at Weill Cornell Medicine. This new program ensures that all qualifying students—regardless of their financial situation—will have the ability to pursue their medical education at Weill Cornell Medicine, without financial burden, and to ultimately focus their careers on their interests and talents. Please join me in thanking our visionary benefactors for their historic gifts—as well as the hundreds of donors and alumni who have supported our scholarship endowment and made this program possible.
Sincerely,
Augustine M.K. Choi, M.D.
Stephen and Suzanne Weiss Dean
Weill Cornell Medicine
Provost for Medical Affairs
Cornell University

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Just got an email (forwarded by a graduate student at Cornell) that indicates Cornell will eliminate loans for those on need-based aid. Pasting it below. If so, this is a game changer. Very interesting to see how this plays out.

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Good thing. Sinai needs to follow suit or be left in the dust of the other big 3 NYC schools
 
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Maybe in reference to Columbia, Cornell, and NYU all having generous aid policies and attracting the same types of applicants as Sinai. It would just lower their yield significantly for any applicants that got into any of those schools and want to be in NYC.

Sinai announced similar aid policy back in April. Covers almost completely if you qualify
 
Won't complain because it is a great step for those in debt but need based aid doesn't help all in need because it is based on parental income.

This doesn't help students who have parents that disowned them or children of single parents with a parent that started a different family or poor married individuals.
 
Here’s hoping Mayo, Harvard, or UChicago will be next...

I definitely think this may actually become a trend among the top private schools. If one furniture store has a sale, then the one across the street will too.

Edit: Adding Pitt (prolly won’t happen) I like them
 
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Harvard, Yale, and I'm pretty sure most T10-15 schools already cover most/all of tuition as need-based aid.

What sucks is the extreme variation in what is considered “needy” and how they factor parental income. Like Harvard and Stanford expect parental contributions of significant amount above $100,000 income, to the point where to be able to qualify for their need based aid they will only match. Basically the philosophy “if your parents don’t care about your education why should we?” Which absolutely sucks for independents, those with families, those who have been disowned, etc.
 
What sucks is the extreme variation in what is considered “needy” and how they factor parental income. Like Harvard and Stanford expect parental contributions of significant amount above $100,000 income, to the point where to be able to qualify for their need based aid they will only match. Basically the philosophy “if your parents don’t care about your education why should we?” Which absolutely sucks for independents, those with families, those who have been disowned, etc.

Yeah, that's a really valid issue. I don't want to re-hash, but if you're interested in people's thoughts, there have been super long threads on SDN debating the fairness of criteria for need-based financial aid.
 
Yeah, that's a really valid issue. I don't want to re-hash, but if you're interested in people's thoughts, there have been super long threads on SDN debating the fairness of criteria for need-based financial aid.
Oh yah, definitely tons of threads. But you don’t want to engage in a redundant and cyclical debate about the merits of a very widely known problem? How un-SDN of you.
 
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Good thing. Sinai needs to follow suit or be left in the dust of the other big 3 NYC schools
There are med schools charging some $70K in tution ( U ILL > $90K for OOS) and they ALL have no shortage of applicants. Mt Sinai will do fine, free tuition or no.
 
from what i understand.. NYU's policy is still FAR better than the other 3 (actually i dont even know Sinais). but nyu seems to be free for ALL? Cornell only is free for people who NEED it based on cornells criteria.. so if your parents income is 130k, you might not get it?
Not sure how it works, if its graded or just all or nothign
 
Wow, it's based on your parents' incomes even if you're independent and have been paying your own way for years? What if your parents are divorced, does it go by one or both? Because it might be better for me if they go by only my mom's income and not my dad's or mine/my husband's... >.>
 
Wow, it's based on your parents' incomes even if you're independent and have been paying your own way for years? What if your parents are divorced, does it go by one or both? Because it might be better for me if they go by only my mom's income and not my dad's or mine/my husband's... >.>
It will use both. Every medical school need-based aid takes parents into account. Even those of us who have not received a dime for schooling ever, have children, are old(Er) and so on.
 
It will use both. Every medical school need-based aid takes parents into account. Even those of us who have not received a dime for schooling ever, have children, are old(Er) and so on.

Ah well then screw me I guess. My dad makes too much on paper. That sucks that they don't take into account if you've been paying your own way forever.
 
Ah well then screw me I guess. My dad makes too much on paper. That sucks that they don't take into account if you've been paying your own way forever.
Some have different income requirements and work history stuff blah blah but I’m most cases these simply reduce the amount. I am in the same boat. My parents combined are ~$130K, so I don’t look needy on paper...but that all goes towards a mortgage, bills, and like 3 cruises a year for them. So...yah, not my money.
 
This is a great step forward. I've always said that NYU's move was just to grab attention. If they really cared about making med school more affordable, they would've directed more aid, i.e. cost of living, towards the students who needed it most instead of their blanket scholarship. Seems like Cornell did the right thing here.

Obviously there will be specific cases that get screwed over because of their special circumstances. But maybe the financial aid office will work with them to come to a mutually-acceptable arrangement. Still a good step forward.
 
Some have different income requirements and work history stuff blah blah but I’m most cases these simply reduce the amount. I am in the same boat. My parents combined are ~$130K, so I don’t look needy on paper...but that all goes towards a mortgage, bills, and like 3 cruises a year for them. So...yah, not my money.

Yeahhh, my dad makes 6 figures but he's paying mortgages on 2 properties and is an asian man who thinks you don't deserve things if you don't earn it, and my mom just got a new job this week that doubled her salary to a grand total of 45k. I am not getting a cent of help XD
 
Adopted? They got married when I was like 25 lol. I assume they file jointly but I certainly don't take any financial benefit from this person.
 
Adopted? They got married when I was like 25 lol. I assume they file jointly but I certainly don't take any financial benefit from this person.
We’re I you, I would reach out to a few school FA offices to get an idea...but my guess would be that their income is going to be taken into account. Although, how old are you (>35?). You may qualify as an independent due to age at most schools that offer need based aid.
 
from what i understand.. NYU's policy is still FAR better than the other 3 (actually i dont even know Sinais). but nyu seems to be free for ALL? Cornell only is free for people who NEED it based on cornells criteria.. so if your parents income is 130k, you might not get it?
Not sure how it works, if its graded or just all or nothign

NYU - Covers only tuition for ALL students (other cost of living, etc. are not covered)
Columbia - Covers ALL (tuition + COA) for qualified students, no unit loan. Columbia expects ~20% of its student body to receive full amount.
Cornell - Covers ALL (tuition + COA) for qualified students, no unit loan. Cornell expects ~66% of its student body to receive full amount.
Sinai - Covers ALL (tuition + COA) for qualified students, with 18k unit loan (max debt $75k). Sinai expects ~40% of its student body to receive full amount.

Class size - NYU (101) Cornell (106) Sinai (140) Columbia (160)

In a way, Sinai's aid is similar to other schools that charges unit loan (ie. Yale). Does seem to be trailing behind other two, but this news might help them change.

Small thing for international students: NYU doesn't accept them, Cornell's aid won't go to international students (unless they didn't change their website yet), both Columbia and Sinai provides aid to internationals.
 
Won't complain because it is a great step for those in debt but need based aid doesn't help all in need because it is based on parental income.

This doesn't help students who have parents that disowned them or children of single parents with a parent that started a different family or poor married individuals.
I believe their financial aid site says to identify the parent income of the parent who you have lived with most.

Cornell indicates parent income will be used for everyone, unless you are age 40.
 
Some have different income requirements and work history stuff blah blah but I’m most cases these simply reduce the amount. I am in the same boat. My parents combined are ~$130K, so I don’t look needy on paper...but that all goes towards a mortgage, bills, and like 3 cruises a year for them. So...yah, not my money.

My guess is at $130k, after allowances, you might qualify for some aid to get to the $90k COA.
 
Does anyone know how schools determine financial aid if one of your parents is retired? Do they use your other parent's income to determine whether you qualify for financial aid/ the amount of aid you receive?
 
For regular medical school loans, whatever the school does not grant (as a merit award or etc), can you get loans through a bank like Discover or Chase?
Is that how it is normally done?
 
For regular medical school loans, whatever the school does not grant (as a merit award or etc), can you get loans through a bank like Discover or Chase?
Is that how it is normally done?
I think usually people get federal PLUS loans after they have maxed out on federal direct unsubsidized loans.
 
I think usually people get federal PLUS loans after they have maxed out on federal direct unsubsidized loans.

Are private loans out of the question / are their interest rates just too astronomical
 
Are private loans out of the question / are their interest rates just too astronomical
You can, yes. However, interest rates are typically higher (unless your credit score is in the same high percentile as your MCAT), they have stricter repayment plans, typically don’t allow deferment during residency etc. A plan that many people do is full COA on grad plus/stafford, then after residency refinance on a shorter term bank loan at a 3-4% interest rate. A larger payment per month, but much less in the long haul.
 
You can, yes. However, interest rates are typically higher (unless your credit score is in the same high percentile as your MCAT), they have stricter repayment plans, typically don’t allow deferment during residency etc. A plan that many people do is full COA on grad plus/stafford, then after residency refinance on a shorter term bank loan at a 3-4% interest rate. A larger payment per month, but much less in the long haul.

Okay, Thanks 🙂
Bold -> 🤣brb, converting my MCAT into the credit score percentile
 
Okay, Thanks 🙂
Bold -> 🤣brb, converting my MCAT into the credit score percentile
Interestingly, very few people have average credit. People either have excellent or bad credit...
 

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Isn't something like 700+ supposed to be a good score
680+ will typically qualify you for the majority of things that require good credit (a mortgage, business loan, decent credit cards, auto loan w/ <7% interest rate). Up until about 750 there are increasing benefits, then it tapers off around 780. For instance, I refinanced my car from 675 at a 7.2% interest rate to a 2.6% interest rate at 784. But when I went to see if I could get an even lower interest rate at 827, they said I was at the lowest available rate.
 
680+ will typically qualify you for the majority of things that require good credit (a mortgage, business loan, decent credit cards, auto loan w/ <7% interest rate). Up until about 750 there are increasing benefits, then it tapers off around 780. For instance, I refinanced my car from 675 at a 7.2% interest rate to a 2.6% interest rate at 784. But when I went to see if I could get an even lower interest rate at 827, they said I was at the lowest available rate.

HOw long does it take to raise one's credit score? Does it take years or can it be done in a year?
 
HOw long does it take to raise one's credit score? Does it take years or can it be done in a year?
It depends why it is bad. I had zero credit history, then after having nothing but one credit card for 2 years that I used once my “established” history gave me a score of 650 at 18. After routine payments of student loans, like 9 credit cards, auto loans, 3 years with a mortgage then selling that house for a profit blah blah - it shot up to 784 somewhere within a year of starting to adult and gradually inclined up to 827 now with all that. Literally getting excellent or perfect credit is just not overextending your finances, not being sketchy (opening lots at once), and not missing payments. You don’t even need to do anything good to get excellent credit - literally just do what you are supposed to do.
 
It depends why it is bad. I had zero credit history, then after having nothing but one credit card for 2 years that I used once my “established” history gave me a score of 650 at 18. After routine payments of student loans, like 9 credit cards, auto loans, 3 years with a mortgage then selling that house for a profit blah blah - it shot up to 784 somewhere within a year of starting to adult and gradually inclined up to 827 now with all that. Literally getting excellent or perfect credit is just not overextending your finances, not being sketchy (opening lots at once), and not missing payments. You don’t even need to do anything good to get excellent credit - literally just do what you are supposed to do.

perfect, thanks! 🙂
 
perfect, thanks! 🙂
Did that help? I am by no means an expert in finances, I can only really just speak to my personal experiences. There may be other barriers or factors that influence others (such as race or gender).
 
Did that help? I am by no means an expert in finances, I can only really just speak to my personal experiences. There may be other barriers or factors that influence others (such as race or gender).

yep! thanks for sharing
 
Ah well then screw me I guess. My dad makes too much on paper. That sucks that they don't take into account if you've been paying your own way forever.
I'm in a similar boat. My dad makes a lot on paper but in terms of spending power he is very poor.

Well beggars can't be choosers. Not like I applied to Cornell or have been accepted there anyways. I will be 6 figures in debt Cornell or not.
 
Why? Do you think that if Sinai doesnt have free tuition no one will apply?
There are med schools charging some $70K in tution ( U ILL > $90K for OOS) and they ALL have no shortage of applicants. Mt Sinai will do fine, free tuition or no.
Well of course even carib schools have no trouble getting applicants. I'm referring to the rankings race which like it or not is one of the reasons these schools are emphasizing improving aid
 
In any of the discussion I have had with faculty, administrators and trustees of various medical schools over the past two years on this topic I have never heard anyone ever care or refer to rankings.

Because rankings and prestige are distasteful reasons to cite in almost every context.
 
The COA is not factored into rankings.

Yes, on face value it doesn’t directly change rankings. However, placement in primary care and indicators of scholarly activity are considered. IIRC, NYU cited a desire to free students from applying to high-paying specialties and increase interest in primary care / academics.
 
Yes, on face value it doesn’t directly change rankings. However, placement in primary care and indicators of scholarly activity are considered. IIRC, NYU cited a desire to free students from applying to high-paying specialties and increase interest in primary care / academics.

Those things are not considered to my knowledge. Research funding, not output, is what factors into rankings.

Those things are values for med school but they are not related to the ranking

The move to debt free models is an acknowledgement that education costs have become out of control, competition for top students has increased commensurate with competition for seats at top schools, and med schools in general want to increase the number of students pursuing pc and academic careers.
 
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