Cornell vs. Columbia

[mbadoc]

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I just got into Cornell and I am waitlisted at Columbia. Trying to decide how much I want to pursue Columbia. Does anyone else in a similar situation? Or is anyone else trying to decide between Cornell and Columbia?
I like Columbia in everyway to Cornell (traditional curriculum, larger class size, better reputation) except for location. I would imagine that Cornell students utilize the city much much more than Columbia students. Is this true? I have friends in the City and I love going out. Is there anyone choosing Cornell over Columbia? and if so, why? Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[FloridaMadame]

I just got into Cornell and I am waitlisted at Columbia. Trying to decide how much I want to pursue Columbia. Does anyone else in a similar situation? Or is anyone else trying to decide between Cornell and Columbia?
I like Columbia in everyway to Cornell (traditional curriculum, larger class size, better reputation) except for location. I would imagine that Cornell students utilize the city much much more than Columbia students. Is this true? I have friends in the City and I love going out. Is there anyone choosing Cornell over Columbia? and if so, why? Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated, thanks.

Check out the useful links sticky and find Columbia vs. Cornell. This debate has been going on for years. There is a great post there that details the pros of Cornell and illuminates the reasons why the majority of the students love it there. Hope this helps

 

[Bfriccia1]

As far as reputation goes, you should see Cornell's match list this year...It's pretty sick.

 

[FloridaMadame]

As far as reputation goes, you should see Cornell's match list this year...It's pretty sick.

Sick in what way? Over 80 percent of the class matched in one of their top 3 choices, and 100 percent of the class matched---no scramble

 

[tkdusb]

Sick in what way? Over 80 percent of the class matched in one of their top 3 choices, and 100 percent of the class matched---no scramble

Saying something is "sick" is paying it a compliment.

Why would any future doctor think otherwise? 😉

 

[Mr. Tee]

Sick in what way? Over 80 percent of the class matched in one of their top 3 choices, and 100 percent of the class matched---no scramble

Yeah, that match list was pretty disgusting.

🙂

 

[mbadoc]

yo, everyone on SDN seems to think Cornell is the SH($*^%T. How about Columbia, I hear its match list is crazy...

 

[badlydrawnvik]

aren't most top school's match lists incredible? my opinion is that cornell does have a sweet location, but unfortunately i didn't get an interview there to check it out. i think the pro of columbia's location is that it's somewhat quiet and because there isn't that much to do you probably don't get distracted as easily. at the same time the A express and a 20 minute ride to midtown is right around the corner.

 

[huknows00]

Columbia is old school... with dorms authentically preserved with original details such as no-air-conditioning and pipe-heating... the decor really brings you back the memories of concrete/brick cubicle that we all miss from freshman year. Along with their vintage med school building and newly repaired collapsed ceiling in the lecture hall, you'll feel like you're back to the glory days...


Haha, just kidding, Columbia'll def give you an exellent education and I highly respect their research, but the conditions there really leave a lot to be desired, especially for a school with a name like Columbia.

 

[mbadoc]

bump

 

[gafft]

Columbis 2006 Surgery Matches:

Total Surgery Matches: 50
Orthopedic Surger: 11
General Surgery: 18
Neurosurgery: 9
Plastic Surgery 4
(the rest is Urology Sugery, Opthalmology Surgery, etc.)

Cornell 2006 Surgery Matches:

Total Surgery Matches: 20
Orthopedic Surgery: 4
General Surgery: 9
Neurosurgery: 1
Plastic Surgery: 0

For Surgery, the "College of Surgeons and Surgeons" wins hands down.
(and yes, Columbia wins in terms of the institutions matched to as well...)

 

[abcehmu]

Columbis 2006 Surgery Matches:

Total Surgery Matches: 50
Orthopedic Surger: 11
General Surgery: 18
Neurosurgery: 9
Plastic Surgery 4
(the rest is Urology Sugery, Opthalmology Surgery, etc.)

Cornell 2006 Surgery Matches:

Total Surgery Matches: 20
Orthopedic Surgery: 4
General Surgery: 9
Neurosurgery: 1
Plastic Surgery: 0

For Surgery, the "College of Surgeons and Surgeons" wins hands down.
(and yes, Columbia wins in terms of the institutions matched to as well...)

Thanks for these numbers. They are of interest to me.

I am someone who will most probably be choosing between Cornell and Columbia and am really conflicted about it. I prefer Cornell to Columbia for location (generally speaking and for personal reasons, i have many close friends and some family near Cornell) and in terms of curriculum. The big but is that I am leaning heavily towards surgery, and Columbia strikes me as the hands down winner for this.

that said, people looking at your numbers should realize that they are slightly misleading in that the class at P & S is much larger than at Cornell. If you reported this as percent of class matching in x, the difference would be considerably less, although still clearly favoring P & S.

 

[kasha]

Thanks for these numbers. They are of interest to me.

I am someone who will most probably be choosing between Cornell and Columbia and am really conflicted about it. I prefer Cornell to Columbia for location (generally speaking and for personal reasons, i have many close friends and some family near Cornell) and in terms of curriculum. The big but is that I am leaning heavily towards surgery, and Columbia strikes me as the hands down winner for this.

that said, people looking at your numbers should realize that they are slightly misleading in that the class at P & S is much larger than at Cornell. If you reported this as percent of class matching in x, the difference would be considerably less, although still clearly favoring P & S.

dont forget that columbia's class size is much larger!

 

[gafft]

Percent of Columbia students matching to surgery residencies: 31%
Perdent of Columbia students matching to neurosurgery: 6%
Percent of Columbia for plastic surgery: 3%

Percent of Cornell students matching to surgery residencies: 20%
Percent of Cornell students matching to neurosurgery: <1%
Percent of Cornell students matching to plastic surgery: 0%

Personally, I'm interested in neurosurgery and neuroscience and I'd much rather try to be one of the 9 at the Columbia then THE one at Cornell. Not to mention that yesterday Columbia announced receiving $200 million for a neuroscience center.

For neuro there's hardley any comparison.

 

[gafft]

On top of this, it's important to remember the sheer numbers, regardless of class size, speak a great deal to the high opinion of residency of directors for Columbia. It doesn't matter how large the class size is, there are a limited number of residency slots (this year only one General Surgery remained unfilled nationwide and 0 neurosurgery slots). There may be more Columbia students but that doesn't mean it's any easier to match. Both schools are good for Surgery compared to all other schools but Columbia may be the strongest school for surgery period. Columbia actually goes out of their way to recruit their own students into surgery unlike, say..Brown, where surgery is a four letter word.

 

[infiniti]

It is called College of Physicians and Surgeons for a reason. LOL

 

[thatslife]

On top of this, it's important to remember the sheer numbers, regardless of class size, speak a great deal to the high opinion of residency of directors for Columbia. It doesn't matter how large the class size is, there are a limited number of residency slots (this year only one General Surgery remained unfilled nationwide and 0 neurosurgery slots). There may be more Columbia students but that doesn't mean it's any easier to match. Both schools are good for Surgery compared to all other schools but Columbia may be the strongest school for surgery period. Columbia actually goes out of their way to recruit their own students into surgery unlike, say..Brown, where surgery is a four letter word.

Percent of Columbia students matching to surgery residencies: 31%
Perdent of Columbia students matching to neurosurgery: 6%
Percent of Columbia for plastic surgery: 3%

Percent of Cornell students matching to surgery residencies: 20%
Percent of Cornell students matching to neurosurgery: <1%
Percent of Cornell students matching to plastic surgery: 0%

Percent of Brown students matching to surgery residencies: 25.9% (21/81)
Percent of Brown students matching to neurosrugery: 1.2% (1/81)
Percent of Brown students matching to plastics: 0
Percent of Brown students matching to ortho: 5.6% (4/81)

Granted its not Columbia's list especially with regards to neuro, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that surgery is a four letter word at Brown

Edit:
sorry I didnt mean to hijack the cornell/columbia discussion

 

[abcehmu]

On top of this, it's important to remember the sheer numbers, regardless of class size, speak a great deal to the high opinion of residency of directors for Columbia. It doesn't matter how large the class size is, there are a limited number of residency slots (this year only one General Surgery remained unfilled nationwide and 0 neurosurgery slots). There may be more Columbia students but that doesn't mean it's any easier to match. Both schools are good for Surgery compared to all other schools but Columbia may be the strongest school for surgery period. Columbia actually goes out of their way to recruit their own students into surgery unlike, say..Brown, where surgery is a four letter word.

On the whole I am agreeing with what you are saying. Columbia is great for surgery and amazing for neurosurgery.

Another things to consider though. The student populations at Cornell and Columbia are not a random sample. They are self selected individuals that chose to go to those schools for particular reasons. It's quite likely that Columbia, having such a great reputation for surgery, was the choice for the vast majority of students choosing between the two and considering surgery after medical school.

So maybe four + years ago there were 12 "gafft"s going into Columbia P & S knowing they wanted neurosurgery, while this number was considerably lower at Cornell. It would be interesting to know what percentage of students with aspirations in surgery (or neurosurgery or any other surgical subspeciality) got what the wanted at each school.

Just something to think about.

 

[el chivo]

I don't understand why people's opinion of Columbia's location is so bad. Washington Heights is definitely not the Upper East Side, but it's cheaper, more diverse, and it's populated by people who need the services of an elite institution (like Columbia or Cornell) way more than on the UES. If your idea of a good location is one where you can forget people like that exist, then why are you going into medicine? Not to say there aren't good reasons for preferring the UES to Washington Heights, but, IMO, "niceness" of the neighborhood isn't one of them.

Aside from all that, the schools struck me as really different. I interviewed both places (accepted at Cornell, waitlist at Col.). The curriculum is an obvious difference: One negative impression I got from Columbia on this front was the lecture I attended, where not a single person asked a single question during an hour and a half. This is probably OK for some, but I do way better in a more interactive setting, and PBL, while flawed, would definitely provide that. I guess it depends on what you're looking for. The stats posted on people going into surgery were interesting.

 

[Trr4]

I don't understand why people's opinion of Columbia's location is so bad. Washington Heights is definitely not the Upper East Side, but it's cheaper, more diverse, and it's populated by people who need the services of an elite institution (like Columbia or Cornell) way more than on the UES. If your idea of a good location is one where you can forget people like that exist, then why are you going into medicine? Not to say there aren't good reasons for preferring the UES to Washington Heights, but, IMO, "niceness" of the neighborhood isn't one of them.

Best thing I've ever read on this debate - very true. 👍

 

[gafft]

I don't understand why people's opinion of Columbia's location is so bad. Washington Heights is definitely not the Upper East Side, but it's cheaper, more diverse, and it's populated by people who need the services of an elite institution (like Columbia or Cornell) way more than on the UES. If your idea of a good location is one where you can forget people like that exist, then why are you going into medicine? Not to say there aren't good reasons for preferring the UES to Washington Heights, but, IMO, "niceness" of the neighborhood isn't one of them.

Aside from all that, the schools struck me as really different. I interviewed both places (accepted at Cornell, waitlist at Col.). The curriculum is an obvious difference: One negative impression I got from Columbia on this front was the lecture I attended, where not a single person asked a single question during an hour and a half. This is probably OK for some, but I do way better in a more interactive setting, and PBL, while flawed, would definitely provide that. I guess it depends on what you're looking for. The stats posted on people going into surgery were interesting.

Exactly. In fact, if you're goal is to get to Columbus Circle/59th Street, you can get there faster from Columbia (ONE stop on the A train) than you can from Cornell (10 stops on the bus). And I agree completely with el chivo: I much prefer the company of blue collar Dominicans with strong family values and work ethic than the ultra-rich elitist Mayflower upper-east-siders...I think Cornell is one of the greatest locations on earth, but damnit, those locals are stuck up like you wouldn't believe.

 

[gafft]

Percent of Columbia students matching to surgery residencies: 31%
Perdent of Columbia students matching to neurosurgery: 6%
Percent of Columbia for plastic surgery: 3%

Percent of Cornell students matching to surgery residencies: 20%
Percent of Cornell students matching to neurosurgery: <1%
Percent of Cornell students matching to plastic surgery: 0%

Percent of Brown students matching to surgery residencies: 25.9% (21/81)
Percent of Brown students matching to neurosrugery: 1.2% (1/81)
Percent of Brown students matching to plastics: 0
Percent of Brown students matching to ortho: 5.6% (4/81)

Granted its not Columbia's list especially with regards to neuro, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that surgery is a four letter word at Brown

Edit:
sorry I didnt mean to hijack the cornell/columbia discussion

You're right, this isn't a Broan thread. But anyway, my interviewer at Brown said to me "Don't worry, not everyone here holds it (your surgery interest) against you." Where 4th year Brown students choose to apply and match, has little to do with what the admissions people want...and they want primary care, primary care, primary care, primary care.....

 

[Brainsucker]

On the whole I am agreeing with what you are saying. Columbia is great for surgery and amazing for neurosurgery.

Another things to consider though. The student populations at Cornell and Columbia are not a random sample. They are self selected individuals that chose to go to those schools for particular reasons. It's quite likely that Columbia, having such a great reputation for surgery, was the choice for the vast majority of students choosing between the two and considering surgery after medical school.

So maybe four + years ago there were 12 "gafft"s going into Columbia P & S knowing they wanted neurosurgery, while this number was considerably lower at Cornell. It would be interesting to know what percentage of students with aspirations in surgery (or neurosurgery or any other surgical subspeciality) got what the wanted at each school.

Just something to think about.

In the P&S class of 2006, seven of eight matched in neurosurgery. That's terrific considering that less than half match overall (and people attempting to match are already a self-selected group). The neurosurgery faculty at P&S is quite friendly and very well connected. If you're serious about neurosurgery, it's a no brainer. (Oh, I made a funny.)

 

[FloridaMadame]

1. Location may be a factor, but should be minor when discussing medical educational experiences for these two schools. Both schools have extensive rotation choices where your experiences will be diverse. Cornell's surroundings and living areas are plusher, Columbia's are a little more sketchy. Your mother may think you are "safer" at Cornell, but your mom isn't the one going to school. Where do you feel better? Educational experiences and opportunities are excellent at both.
2. Match lists: Both fabulous BUT, duh, Columbia is known for surgery. It's great that that they are getting money finally for neuro. Go there if that is what you want. It's a wonderful choice. Interested in ortho (Hospital for Special Surgery), cancer (Memorial Sloan Kettering), research (Rockefeller), than Cornell is the place for you. Again, many choices, many options. And don't be fooled by the numbers going in to any one particular residency for any one particular year, because that is all that it is---one year. There may not have been 30 candidates who were interested in a particular specialty that year. Instead, look at the overall match. They were both outstanding. Some people will have to nit-pick to prove that one school is better than the other as far as match goes. This may be true when comparing Ross to Harvard, but not when comparing Cornell to Columbia. Don't be sucked in by penis envy.
3. Going out in NY: That is entirely up to you. How much studying you need to do on weekends is your choice. Med School is not college. The vast volume of work is sometimes unbelieveable so you may have to give up a Friday or Saturday night every now and then. This is probably true at both schools and IMO, is not a reason to pick one school over the other, but that is me.If you want to get really picky, Cornell is decidedly closer to most museums, theaters, clubs, etc., and is an easy walk to most places. But, as many will also point out, Columbia is just a train ride away and closer to a subway stop.
4. PBL vs. lecture. Again, for the 900th time, Cornell is NOT ALL PBL. Never has been, never will be. Some love PBL, some hate it, some are indifferent, but at least, FOR ME, it beats sitting in a boring lecture. Plus, you get out at 1:00 on most days giving you a chance to explore, sleep, study, exercise, do research, etc. What type of person are you and what do you like? Do you want to hear a professor drone on and on or do you want to be a part-time participant in your own education? (One PBL drawback-some classes have really annoying gunner-types that monopolize the profs time as well as the session. They are well-hated by the rest of the class, so don't be one!!!!)
5. Reputation and rankings: Do not pick a school based on this. Really. Please don't. Many in my class gave up higher ranked schools for a variety of reasons and are very happy that they did.
6. The bottom line: Where did you feel good? Where did you like the other students? Where did you feel both mentally and physically comfortable? Where did you like the approach to teaching? Where are the better opportunities FOR YOU. You should not have to be convinced by me or anyone else on SDN that Columbia is the only place to go or that Cornell is better in any # of areas. This debate between the two schools has gone on forever and will probably never reach a conclusion so it is up to you, the accepted student, to pick the school that is best for YOU--and not for anyone else looking around this thread
7. Finally, after my long rant, good luck to you all in making your decision. You are all very fortunate to have this choice. And remember, you will receive an excellent education at either institution, so sometimes, even after weeks of rationalization, you may be better off going with your gut feeling.

 

[abcehmu]

In the P&S class of 2006, seven of eight matched in neurosurgery. That's terrific considering that less than half match overall (and people attempting to match are already a self-selected group). The neurosurgery faculty at P&S is quite friendly and very well connected. If you're serious about neurosurgery, it's a no brainer. (Oh, I made a funny.)

good point. i wonder what the "number matched" of "number tried to match" was at cornell. anybody got this info?

 

[abcehmu]

I don't understand why people's opinion of Columbia's location is so bad. Washington Heights is definitely not the Upper East Side, but it's cheaper, more diverse, and it's populated by people who need the services of an elite institution (like Columbia or Cornell) way more than on the UES. If your idea of a good location is one where you can forget people like that exist, then why are you going into medicine? Not to say there aren't good reasons for preferring the UES to Washington Heights, but, IMO, "niceness" of the neighborhood isn't one of them.

Aside from all that, the schools struck me as really different. I interviewed both places (accepted at Cornell, waitlist at Col.). The curriculum is an obvious difference: One negative impression I got from Columbia on this front was the lecture I attended, where not a single person asked a single question during an hour and a half. This is probably OK for some, but I do way better in a more interactive setting, and PBL, while flawed, would definitely provide that. I guess it depends on what you're looking for. The stats posted on people going into surgery were interesting.

I too prefer the Washington Heights population to that on the Upper East Side. But arguing that the RELATIVE NYC GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION (even when factoring in distance to subway) of Columbia is even remotely comparable to that of Cornell is ridiculous. You have to just give this one up. I'm speaking from experience. I spent a summer living at P&S and have spent considerable time on the UES. It's closer to Grand Central, it's closer to the airports, it's (arguably) closer to Penn Station, it's closer to Chinatown (food and cheap transport), it's closer to museums, it's closer to Central Park, it's closer to Brooklyn, and it's closer to the vast majority of places you would want to go out to. Another thing to consider is that when it's 3:00 AM after a long Saturday night, you're with some girls and at least one person in your group isn't feeling so hot, waiting for infrequent late night subways to Washington Heights is not going to be the way you want to get home. Trust me on this one. Again, from experience.

In an ideal world, I would transplant Columbia and its population to the location on the UES, change the Columbia curriculum so it was less traditional and so lecture heavy (I can guarantee that if I go I will waste many hours sitting in lecture, only to learn the material on my own (the only way I really learn) at some later point). Keep the surgical bada$$ness, the school of public health, the reputation and vwa-la, I've got my ideal NYC med school.

I've been accepted at both and swear that I am torn right down the middle, so I'm not trying to advocate for one or the other, I just feel that some people here have decided on Columbia and are making some stretches in justifying their decision. Columbia has shortcomings compared to Cornell. Cornell has shortcomings compared to Columbia.

 

[Brainsucker]

Another thing to add about P&S is that the curriculum has a ton of anatomy and a ton of neuroscience/neuroanatomy. That said, whoever mentioned HSS has a good point, though I don't know if Cornell students match better in ortho if they don't match at HSS. (I would imagine they have an inside track to HSS, but not every potential Cornell orthopod is going to match there.)

 

[abcehmu]

Another thing to add about P&S is that the curriculum has a ton of anatomy and a ton of neuroscience/neuroanatomy. That said, whoever mentioned HSS has a good point, though I don't know if Cornell students match better in ortho if they don't match at HSS. (I would imagine they have an inside track to HSS, but not every potential Cornell orthopod is going to match there.)

I was told the residency program at HSS takes 8 or so a year and that usually two or three are from Cornell. We were given the impression that Cornell students do have a special inside track to HSS but that the program was hesistant to take more than that number from Cornell a year.

 

[Bfriccia1]

I was told the residency program at HSS takes 8 or so a year and that usually two or three are from Cornell. We were given the impression that Cornell students do have a special inside track to HSS but that the program was hesistant to take more than that number from Cornell a year.

As far as Cornell goes, the reason there are less surgery matches is because Columbia tends to attract people who want to do neurosurgery/surgery (it is a self-fullfilling prophecy year after year. If you know you want to do neurosugery, Columbia is a great place for that...it consistently puts out 5-10 people per year. COrnell is not bad for neurosurgery however, it's just that people who get into med schools in new york who want to be neurosurgeons tend to choose columbia. I think if 10 people wanted to do it at cornell it wouldn't be a problem. As far as ortho goes, people in cornell do have hss as a resource, not just to match into hss but to match into other great programs. In years past, people with well below average board scores still matched into orthopedics from here due to reputation. HSS seems to take one or two per year from cornell (but it also takes one from columbia every year too). Our average board scores are identical so that isn't an advantage/disadvantage in either place. COrnell is great for oncology (surgical, radiation, or medicine), urology, cardiac surgery, orthopedics, and most forms of basic science research. Columbia is known for its neuroscience, neurosurgery, and its surgical subspecialties. THis year at Cornell we had six people (out of 100) match into derm at some very competitive places, 30% of the class stayed at New YOrk-Pres for their residency, and a large number of people went up to MGH (radiology, anesthesia, ect.). Basically, I think both schools are very strong and comparing them solely based on reputation is splitting hairs. If you are SET on being a neurosurgeon at COlumbia pres then Columbia may be a better choice but other than that extreme situation I think that both schools are great and much more similar than they like to admit.

 

[Bfriccia1]

BY the way here's cornell's match list:

EM
Cornell (2)
Newark Beth Israel

Dermatology
Cornell (2)
Penn
Yale
St Lukes

Pathology
MGH
Cornell

Anesthesia
Yale
MGH
Stanford
Penn
UCSF
Einstein
Beth Israel Deaconess (2)
Cornell (2)


Neurosurgery
Columbia

Ortho
HSS
UCLA
UMass
Long Island Jewish

Rads
Mass General
Cornell
Duke

Psychiatry
COlumbia
Cornell (3)
NYU

Ophthalmology
COrnell
Tufts

ENT
Columbia
Stanford
Pittsburgh
Vanderbilt
Loma Linda

Peds
UCLA (2)
UCSF
Yale
COrnell
Stanford
Baylor
Einstein
NYU
Case Western

Urology
Cornell (2)
Sinai
Jefferson

Radiation Oncology
Memorial SLoan Ketering (Cornell)

Neurology
COrnell

General surgery
Penn
Cornell (3)
Michigan
Northwestern
SUNY-Buffalo
UMDNJ
Jefferson
St Lukes

OB-GYN
Penn
University of Maryland
University of Texas
Mount Sinai
North Shore
Wayne State

Internal Medicine
Brigham and Womens (2)
Beth Israel Deaconess
Hopkins
Einstein
Dartmouth
Cornell (7)
Columbia
UCLA
WIsconsin
Colorado
UCSF
Vanderbilt

PM and R
UMDNJ (2)

 

[mbadoc]

Is the Cornell matchlist good? All matchlists look good to me...

 

[gafft]

I too prefer the Washington Heights population to that on the Upper East Side. But arguing that the RELATIVE NYC GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION (even when factoring in distance to subway) of Columbia is even remotely comparable to that of Cornell is ridiculous. You have to just give this one up. I'm speaking from experience. I spent a summer living at P&S and have spent considerable time on the UES. It's closer to Grand Central, it's closer to the airports, it's (arguably) closer to Penn Station, it's closer to Chinatown (food and cheap transport), it's closer to museums, it's closer to Central Park, it's closer to Brooklyn, and it's closer to the vast majority of places you would want to go out to. Another thing to consider is that when it's 3:00 AM after a long Saturday night, you're with some girls and at least one person in your group isn't feeling so hot, waiting for infrequent late night subways to Washington Heights is not going to be the way you want to get home. Trust me on this one. Again, from experience.

In an ideal world, I would transplant Columbia and its population to the location on the UES, change the Columbia curriculum so it was less traditional and so lecture heavy (I can guarantee that if I go I will waste many hours sitting in lecture, only to learn the material on my own (the only way I really learn) at some later point). Keep the surgical bada$$ness, the school of public health, the reputation and vwa-la, I've got my ideal NYC med school.

I've been accepted at both and swear that I am torn right down the middle, so I'm not trying to advocate for one or the other, I just feel that some people here have decided on Columbia and are making some stretches in justifying their decision. Columbia has shortcomings compared to Cornell. Cornell has shortcomings compared to Columbia.

Yeah, well, I'm a pilot and P&S is right across the GW bridge from Teterboro airport which means that Columbia wins hands down, no argument, end of discussion in terms of a better location. Over and out.

 

[gafft]

Okay, guys and gals, input this bit of data into your CPUs: Today, a professor at Cornell (you know, the kind that actually teaches classes), told me that Columbia "is a better school." She said quietly and somewhat under her breath...wouldn't want any Cornell students to hear! I've made my decision. Bard Hall, here I come.

 

[ivy91]

Yeah, well, I'm a pilot and P&S is right across the GW bridge from Teterboro airport which means that Columbia wins hands down, no argument, end of discussion in terms of a better location. Over and out.

Class Spring Breaks to the Caribbean via Air Gafft? 😛

 

[badlydrawnvik]

Okay, guys and gals, input this bit of data into your CPUs: Today, a professor at Cornell (you know, the kind that actually teaches classes), told me that Columbia "is a better school." She said quietly and somewhat under her breath...wouldn't want any Cornell students to hear! I've made my decision. Bard Hall, here I come.

wow i would not expect that!

 

[dbhvt]

Okay, guys and gals, input this bit of data into your CPUs: Today, a professor at Cornell (you know, the kind that actually teaches classes), told me that Columbia "is a better school." She said quietly and somewhat under her breath...wouldn't want any Cornell students to hear! I've made my decision. Bard Hall, here I come.

I'm on the wait list at P&S, and haven't heard yet from Cornell (didn't get the email 🙁 ), but I thought I'd join in the discussion anyway.

I take these kinds of comments (prof at school X says X's rival is a better school) with grains of salt. I think they tend to speak more to politics of the profs situation than anything else. That's not to say I would discount what she said, but I wouldn't base a decision on it.

I understand you were vauge for a good reason, but maybe you could clarify, is this a prof at Cornell U in Ithaca, or someone who teaches med students down at WC. Or a prof at Cornell College in Mt. Vernon, IA. 😉

 

[mbadoc]

With the new 2007 US News and World Report rankings coming out April 1, I wonder if it is possible that Columbia will fall out of the top ten and cornell will move ahead into the top ten... Cornell has just partnered with Baylor and so the 2007 rankings will now reflect an increase in research funding. I've been told that this will boost Cornell significantly.

I wonder how drastically this will affect peoples' decisions...

 

[greets fr. nyc]

seriously, what aspect are people comparing Columbia vs. Cornell on and how is that going to MAKE a difference in your life as a med student? More importantly what is the experience of those who are making those comments, anyway?

come on,.. when some of the strongest residents who are teaching on your 3rd year clerkship or 4th year Sub-I are from Columbia, or for that matter from Temple, or NYU, or Cornell, or Wash U, or a Qatari who went to a Russian Med school (this guy was awesome), it gets difficult real fast to remember how any huge med school is better than another. I want a guy who's got my back, who can handle any crap under pressure when our patient's crashing, and who is willing to teach and talk and just chill out with us med students. THere are gems and their are tools at any place.
REMEMBER, the ones who will really be teaching you to become a competent semi-doctor is probably a resident or fellow, and even an attending, all whom almost certainly did at least part of their training somewhere else. i.e. everyone is so inbred at the clinical level, seriously! Don't forget that.

really the question is where do you want to live for the next four years and have the best quality of life (and this means different things for different people). you'll get great training on the medical side pretty much anywhere so long as you are pro-active, work well on a team, and are conscientious. remember, med school is pretty much a general medical education vs. residency, which is much more specialized (the differences can be quite large between residency programs). in the end, pick the place you'll be happiest at. a nice reputation is fine, but if you're miserable, that's a whopping huge amount of sweat, time, and dinero you're spending!

good luck,
i'm serious you are all in for an amazing ride. no matter what school you end up going to.

MS4 and <2 months counting.... oh yeah, baby!

 

[NoSoupforYou13]

With the new 2007 US News and World Report rankings coming out April 1, I wonder if it is possible that Columbia will fall out of the top ten and cornell will move ahead into the top ten... Cornell has just partnered with Baylor and so the 2007 rankings will now reflect an increase in research funding. I've been told that this will boost Cornell significantly.

I wonder how drastically this will affect peoples' decisions...

Cornell and Columbia are already part of the same hospital / medical system.

 

[gafft]

I'm on the wait list at P&S, and haven't heard yet from Cornell (didn't get the email 🙁 ), but I thought I'd join in the discussion anyway.

I take these kinds of comments (prof at school X says X's rival is a better school) with grains of salt. I think they tend to speak more to politics of the profs situation than anything else. That's not to say I would discount what she said, but I wouldn't base a decision on it.

I understand you were vauge for a good reason, but maybe you could clarify, is this a prof at Cornell U in Ithaca, or someone who teaches med students down at WC. Or a prof at Cornell College in Mt. Vernon, IA. 😉

Weill Cornell Professor teaching first year medical students basic science. Yes, take everything with a grain of salt. Cornell is an excellent school and nobody can deny that.

 

[gafft]

With the new 2007 US News and World Report rankings coming out April 1, I wonder if it is possible that Columbia will fall out of the top ten and cornell will move ahead into the top ten... Cornell has just partnered with Baylor and so the 2007 rankings will now reflect an increase in research funding. I've been told that this will boost Cornell significantly.

I wonder how drastically this will affect peoples' decisions...

I suppose it's possible but realize that this year was a historical anomaly - Columbia is traditionally in the top 5 or so and slipped in 2005 because of a dip in NIH funding. Cornell is never in the top 10. Columbia widely regarded as one of the world's most prestigious medical schools on par with Harvard and Hopkins. Cornell is fantastic, my father went to Weill Cornell Medical College. But the fact remains that Columbia is better. Not better for everybody, but better nonetheless.

 

[gafft]

Cornell and Columbia are already part of the same hospital / medical system.

The merger is only at the level of the hospital. The medical schools and their administrations and academics are entirely separate, as they have always been.

 

[gafft]

Class Spring Breaks to the Caribbean via Air Gafft? 😛

Exactly! But unfortunately, there's only enough room for hot nurses 😉

 

[greets fr. nyc]

ok, ok, seems like people are still not satisfied.... *grin*

let's say we added
Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center

The Hospital for Special Surgery

and the

Rockefeller University

into the mix of a Cornell education... as you all know they are all across the street from one another and are literally connected by underground tunnels and sky bridges... an veritable med research megalopolis. of course, students do rotations, sub-I's, electives, and research at these places. The faculty of three of these institutions are on the Cornell faculty, they consult and see patients often in the same hospital (example, HSS guys do the orthopedics cases that come into the NYPH ER, the rheum people are a consult service on the wards, etc, etc) and all 4 institutions teach med students from 1st year to 4th year.

don't forget you get all these institutions in one package! 🙂


P.S., I think P&S is an awesome school too, I just think some medical school applicants might be well served to look beyond magazine ratings and overall NIH dollars.

 

[gafft]

ok, ok, seems like people are still not satisfied.... *grin*

let's say we added
Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center

The Hospital for Special Surgery

and the

Rockefeller University

into the mix of a Cornell education... as you all know they are all across the street from one another and are literally connected by underground tunnels and sky bridges... an veritable med research megalopolis. of course, students do rotations, sub-I's, electives, and research at these places. The faculty of three of these institutions are on the Cornell faculty, they consult and see patients often in the same hospital (example, HSS guys do the orthopedics cases that come into the NYPH ER, the rheum people are a consult service on the wards, etc, etc) and all 4 institutions teach med students from 1st year to 4th year.

don't forget you get all these institutions in one package! 🙂


P.S., I think P&S is an awesome school too, I just think some medical school applicants might be well served to look beyond magazine ratings and overall NIH dollars.

Yeah, I agree. In fact, Weill Cornell was my goal in life for several years until I went to P&S, met Dean Frantz, saw the place, met the students, knocked back some beers with them....talked with profs at both places....and bam! just like that I changed my mind. Medical school choice is an extremely personal decision. And personally - for me - Columbia is the greatest school on earth. I'm outtie....good luck to y'all...

 

[badlydrawnvik]

Yeah, I agree. In fact, Weill Cornell was my goal in life for several years until I went to P&S, met Dean Frantz, saw the place, met the students, knocked back some beers with them....talked with profs at both places....and bam! just like that I changed my mind. Medical school choice is an extremely personal decision. And personally - for me - Columbia is the greatest school on earth. I'm outtie....good luck to y'all...

yeah classmate!!

 

[tkdusb]

Yeah, I agree. In fact, Weill Cornell was my goal in life for several years until I went to P&S, met Dean Frantz, saw the place, met the students, knocked back some beers with them....talked with profs at both places....and bam! just like that I changed my mind. Medical school choice is an extremely personal decision. And personally - for me - Columbia is the greatest school on earth. I'm outtie....good luck to y'all...

So can we expect you to withdraw from Cornell soon?

 

[mbadoc]

it seems that Gafft has been hired by the Columbia admissions office to post here on sdn...Cornell's opportunities, with all of the affilliated clinical/ research centers, positions Cornell over Columbia. The only reason why Cornell is not ranked above Columbia is because the rankings methodology used by U.S. News does not take into account Cornell's affiliations (Memorial Sloan Kettering, HSS, Rockefeller, etc.). These affiiliations, as a previous post noted, directly affect a students training, studies, and research opportunities. Cornell does match less into surgery, but its overall match is better.

 

[Tigerstang]

I suppose it's possible but realize that this year was a historical anomaly - Columbia is traditionally in the top 5 or so and slipped in 2005 because of a dip in NIH funding. Cornell is never in the top 10. Columbia widely regarded as one of the world's most prestigious medical schools on par with Harvard and Hopkins. Cornell is fantastic, my father went to Weill Cornell Medical College. But the fact remains that Columbia is better. Not better for everybody, but better nonetheless.

Eh, I think its important to note that for years (read, 70's, 80's, and even early 90's) Columbia's program was considered dog ****. Only recently have thye become a respectable program, but no physician would ever equate them on part with Harvard or Hopkins. Don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic school, but that's a bit of a stretch.

 

[FloridaMadame]

Weill Cornell Professor teaching first year medical students basic science. Yes, take everything with a grain of salt. Cornell is an excellent school and nobody can deny that.

I would definitely take that with a grain of salt. The exact opposite happened to me when I was applying. A professor at aforementioned P and S told me that Cornell might be lower in the rankings, but it is actually a much better school and enumerated at least a dozens reasons why. Was he disgruntled? Maybe. Was "your" Cornell prof pissed at something? Perhaps. Lets not make this a spitting contest. THEY ARE BOTH GREAT SCHOOLS. Grafft, I wish you all the best at Columbia. Now it is time to give your spot up at Cornell to someone who really would love to be there. I know it is hard for you to believe, but there are actually many students who chose Cornell OVER P&S, and we are happy that we did!