correlation between med school ranking and earning power

[drstrangelove]

---

Members don't see this ad.

probably not that high I'm guessing?

in fact, i'm pretty sure AOA status or percentile in class has greater correlation.

this is medicine, come on.

 

[chef]

i'm more interested in finding out if grads from top ranked schools enter academia more (%wise) than grads from lower tier schools. any info?

 

[INeedAdvice]

Originally posted by drstrangelove
probably not that high I'm guessing?

in fact, i'm pretty sure AOA status or percentile in class has greater correlation.

this is medicine, come on.

I just saw the list for Law school graduates' earning power. There seemed to be high correlation between their rank and salary.

Harvard was #1 (from what I recall). Georgetown was #3. Yale was up there. The top ten seemed to be the top Law schools in the nation.

However...with that being said, medicine might be totally different. The medical field isn't saturated, so there might not be as much of a variation between the top medical schools and the others regarding earning power.

 

[surge]

I don't think there's a high correlation at all. This is anecdotal, however.

On the other hand, rank/reputation of the med school does go a long way, and in fact matters a lot, if you are interested in academic medicine. There are always exceptions, but, generally speaking, it's true. I don't think it matters as much for anything else.

 

[yosemitesam]

Law is a totally different animal than health professions. Compensation for doctors is relatively stable within any given field. On the other hand, law students from big schools get jobs with top name (and top grossing) firms while mediocre law students are relegated to processing probates and $50 divorces.

 

[Olanzapine]

Almost all physicians are paid by insurance companies that don't care if the MD performing the surgery went to Harvard or the University of the Carribean. Even when you talk about out-of-pocket procedures (cosmetics), nobody/few shop by where the doc went to school.
Lawyers, on the other hand, bill customers directly. A law firm can bill rich clients a lot more money if the client believes that he is getting a group of all stars (harvard grads) vs a group of law school drop outs (University of Mexico grads).

 

[Bonds756]

I agree that an MD is an MD and your salary isn't going to significantly be impacted by where you go to school. However, there may be some confounding in that certain types of schools produce more specialists that tend to make more money than general practitioners.

 

[Nirvana]

However, there may be some confounding in that certain types of schools produce more specialists that tend to make more money than general practitioners.

Good point. Some schools that match at hard/competitive residencies have grads with higher earning power .. like g'town. Their rankings have hovered in the 40's, but their match list is one of the best in the country for competitive residencies such as ortho, neurosurgery, etc.

 

[Street Philosopher]

it might be the case that those graduating from highly ranked schools can have lower average income, assuming that many of them go into academia which pays a lot less. probably balanced out by the dudes going into ortho or ophthal or derm though 😉

 

[antoniop]

Just my opinion ... if worried about "earning power" or potential in your choice of school, then you're probably entering the medical profession for all the wrong reasons. No offense, but if you're interested in making money, why not hit up another profession?

 

[surge]

Originally posted by antoniop
No offense, but if you're interested in making money, why not hit up another profession?

Prestige and power 🙄

Seriously, though, it's sad.

 

[antoniop]

But at least you're honest with yourself ... I know plenty of people who say they wanna be a doctor for humanitarian reasons, but underneath are probably in it for the money.

Originally posted by surge
Prestige and power 🙄

Seriously, though, it's sad.

 

[Dynastar]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by antoniop
No offense, but if you're interested in making money, why not hit up another profession?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seriously, not to sound rude, but that's just ridiculous.

I get kind of tired sometimes of people thinking that people who want to make good money as a physician have faulty thinking. Medicine is a business. If you enjoy it, want to pursue it, and want to be the best at it, then you should get paid well for your time and training.

I applaud anyone who wants to get the best residency, to be the best doctor, to make the best money he/she can for themselves.

 

[surge]

Damn it, I guess I don't get the applause since I'm only in it to become the best healer I can be. What an idiot I am. 🙄

 

[tms]

I applaud thee for wanting to be a healer. But lets face it...there is nothing wrong with making money. We do live in a capitalistic society...and the last time I checked, we will need money to pay back loans, eat, provide a place to sleep, wine and dine the ladies (or gents), etc. etc. Besides, natural selection can only occur in our society if you're double Y or if you are financially successful (amongst other contributing factors so close the flood gates).

And in reality, I highly doubt that there would be such competition for med school slots if starting salaries weren't 120K. Additonally, some very intelligent and apt individuals are motivated by money. And if they make great doctors...terrific. Not every doctor has to pat your backside and tell you how special of a love-child you are. Sheesh.

 

[Dr.Tong]

Damn it, I guess I don't get the applause since I'm only in it to become the best healer I can be. What an idiot I am.

The moral high ground...good job. but i gotta go with tms on this one...there's nothing wrong with doing what you love and being payed well to do it. if you wanna say that you'd do it for free, then you're a saint, fine, but have fun supporting yourself and a family. It's simple, med school will leave you in debt, maybe more than 150 grand, then you get paid **** for residency. Then after that, you need to be well compensated.

 

[drstrangelove]

That's an interesting point, I wonder if there is a correlation between graduation from a top school and entry into academic medicine. I would think so, but I wonder how much so.
Academic medicine is probably lower in terms of earning power though. Bonds brings up an excellent point of the counfounding variable academic medicine.

Yeah of course there's bound to be a decent correlation for law, but that's law. Law's not medicine.

Insurance companies don't care where you graduate from, that's true.

I don't really want to turn this into a "doctors shouldnt be in it for the money" forum but it's true we do live in a capitalistic society, for better or for worse.

 

[antoniop]

That's why I love SDN ... the sharing of personal opinion! 🙂

I got no beef with those who want to make good money ... hey, I wouldn't mind earning some descent cash when I'm a doctor. It's like someone earlier said, if you love what you're doing, why not make good money at it. I totally agree, but it's just a little weird for me if someone chooses a med school based on the earning potential a person would have if they graduate from there. For me, if I had such options, I would honestly pick USC or UC Irvine over schools like Harvard and Yale because of the cultural populations I want to work with. But if you're able to equalize your happiness and personal/professional development potential across several schools, why not pick the most prestigious and the one with the most earning potential. I just feel this last ranking of schools should be secondary to happiness and development evaluation.

Unless money outweighs all other factors on your happiness scale ... for which this discussion gets even harrier 🙂

 

[sweetfynesse]

Medicine is extremely complicated in terms of compensation or earning potential. For instance with emergency medicine, if i practice in saturated NYC, average income is around $160/170, 000, academics being slightly less. However, if I were to practice in a rural area in the south where only 10% of ER docs are residency trained, I could pull in $270/300,000. Hey, and it won't matter which med school or residency program I completed.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

There is a correlation..but is complex.

If one goes to a higher ranked school, usually, it is associated with good law and biz schools. With that said, the money making potential will not come from your medical career, but with the contacts you make. These contacts are not easy to make: You have to be wise enough to know how to make them. Also, it can have an impact on a political career, which opens up another can of worms as far as earning potential goes.

This point is null on two accounts, and you can go to a non-top med school on these conditions:

a) you dont know how to make contacts or you dont care
b) you already have the best contacts in the world, and dont need the top med school


this is a very short, "free" version of how it works. For a premium version.... 😀

 

[drstrangelove]

i agree with sweetfyness that your earning power won't come from your choice of medical school but from other factors such as geography.

blitzkrieg, you're saying top schools are associated with better contacts--what will this allow you in terms of earning potential? better jobs with more income?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

drstrangelove:

opportunities. Believe me.

 

[DrCarin]

Originally posted by tms
I applaud thee for wanting to be a healer. But lets face it...there is nothing wrong with making money. We do live in a capitalistic society...and the last time I checked, we will need money to pay back loans, eat, provide a place to sleep, wine and dine the ladies (or gents), etc. etc. Besides, natural selection can only occur in our society if you're double Y or if you are financially successful (amongst other contributing factors so close the flood gates).

And in reality, I highly doubt that there would be such competition for med school slots if starting salaries weren't 120K. Additonally, some very intelligent and apt individuals are motivated by money. And if they make great doctors...terrific. Not every doctor has to pat your backside and tell you how special of a love-child you are. Sheesh.

I'm with Troy!! C'mon people, there is NOTHING wrong with wanting to make a decent living to support our family in the manner that you desire. We are all going to work our asses off as doctors, and I think we deserve to be compensated as such. Though don't get me wrong- I don't think anyone should go into medicine for the money. And I don't think very many people do honestly. You have to LOVE medicine to want to work this much!! We're all bright individuals here for the most case I assume; if we were REALLY only after money, we could all find another way to make it that would require far less work and dedication.

 

[drstrangelove]

Originally posted by Blitzkrieg
drstrangelove:

opportunities. Believe me.

I'd love to "believe you", but if I went around believing every unsubstantiated claim I'd think that dinosaurs and men walked together too.

 

[vm26]

Someone please explain how "contacts" improve earning potential. Last time I checked, docs are reimbursed according to the procedure they perform, there's an established fee schedule. A TKR performed at HSS should be reimbursed similiarly to a TKR performed at any generic community hospital. Insurance companies dont shell out more cash simply because a doc is a top twenty grad. I think "contacts" would only be significant if they somehow increased patient volume, specifically with patients who would pay out of pocket.

 

[MSTP boy]

Originally posted by drstrangelove
..but if I went around believing every unsubstantiated claim I'd think that dinosaurs and men walked together too.

hey man, haven't you ever seen the "Flintstones"? They've found plenty dino footprints embedded with squashed cave men anyway. 😀

seriously though, i think the effect of your school's rank really depends on what you do. An internist or intensivist at a big hospital will be compensated based on case load, etc. not his alma mater. But pay-first specialities in which the patient selects his/her own physician( ie a plastics practice) may benefit from having associations with well-known schools, because they instill trust in consumers.

 

[drstrangelove]

Originally posted by MSTP boy
seriously though, i think the effect of your school's rank really depends on what you do. An internist or intensivist at a big hospital will be compensated based on case load, etc. not his alma mater. But pay-first specialities in which the patient selects his/her own physician( ie a plastics practice) may benefit from having associations with well-known schools, because they instill trust in consumers.

that might be true, since plastics isnt reimbursed (right?). so consumers would be willing to pay more for these doctors maybe.

 

[vm26]

that might be true, since plastics isnt reimbursed (right?). so consumers would be willing to pay more for these doctors maybe.

plastics in general are reimbursed, cosmetic procedures on the other hand are out-of-pocket.

 

[JlazyMD]

I generally agree there in little correlation between reputation and earning power. However, at the very top of the scale you probably find more docs from top schools- i.e. chiefs of transplant surgury earning over a mil are mostly from good schools.