Cost as a factor for choosing a school

[oregonian19]

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Hello again, everyone.

After going to some more interviews, learning more about the programs I have interviewed with, and doing more number crunching, I have a question about the cost of pharmacy school.

Based on my interview, what I have learned, and the experience at the interview, I really fell in love with the University of Colorado's program. However, when one thinks about cost in comparison to my state school, Oregon State University, I wonder if the difference is worth going to a school I liked more versus saving money.

I did my best to factor in cost of living, tuition, and compounding interest for the school loans over the four years of school. Though, I did NOT factor in any wages that may be made from internships or scholarships I may earn. This analysis came up with:
Colorado - $198k
Oregon - $158k
Difference = $40k

So my question is whether or not $40k is worth going to a school that I liked more? I would like your guys' opinions.

Please, no comments about how I should abandon pharmacy or switch to another profession. I would like a legitimate answer and opinions for my question.

Thank you.

 

[zelman]

Hello again, everyone.

After going to some more interviews, learning more about the programs I have interviewed with, and doing more number crunching, I have a question about the cost of pharmacy school.

Based on my interview, what I have learned, and the experience at the interview, I really fell in love with the University of Colorado's program. However, when one thinks about cost in comparison to my state school, Oregon State University, I wonder if the difference is worth going to a school I liked more versus saving money.

I did my best to factor in cost of living, tuition, and compounding interest for the school loans over the four years of school. Though, I did NOT factor in any wages that may be made from internships or scholarships I may earn. This analysis came up with:
Colorado - $198k
Oregon - $158k
Difference = $40k

So my question is whether or not $40k is worth going to a school that I liked more? I would like your guys' opinions.

Please, no comments about how I should abandon pharmacy or switch to another profession. I would like a legitimate answer and opinions for my question.

Thank you.

Go to the cheapest school possible.

 

[oregonian19]

Can you please qualify that opinion?

 

[Rouelle]

Where do you want to practice in the end? Will one school do anything whatsoever to get you in your target job vs the other?

How much money do you foresee banking yearly post-graduation, after taxes and living expenses? Be realistic, factoring in the fact that unexpected expenses regularly arise. Consider the difference in student loan interest for several years as you pay it off. $40k can grow to significantly more than that.

What did you love about Colorado? Is it something quantifiable and measurable, or just a good feeling? Try to be objective and remove your feelings from the equation.

 

[BidingMyTime]

The only reason not to go to a cheap school, is if it is unaccredited. Otherwise, go with the cheapest, $40,000 is ALOT Of money, it's not like you are talking about just a couple of thousand dollar difference in price.

 

[oregonian19]

Where do you want to practice in the end? Will one school do anything whatsoever to get you in your target job vs the other?

How much money do you foresee banking yearly post-graduation, after taxes and living expenses? Be realistic, factoring in the fact that unexpected expenses regularly arise. Consider the difference in student loan interest for several years as you pay it off. $40k can grow to significantly more than that.

What did you love about Colorado? Is it something quantifiable and measurable, or just a good feeling? Try to be objective and remove your feelings from the equation.

I'm unsure as to where I want to practice. I love Oregon, but I was hoping for a bit of adventure and to escape the ever-worsening traffic and cost of housing.

Post-grad, I want to do a PGY1 residency and maybe a PGY2. I have been sending emails and asking questions toschools considering their historical match rates. In comparison to the national match rate of 65%, Colorado's 5-year average is 75%; I'm waiting to hear back from Oregon about this same metric because their website only reports their 2015 stat of 87%. Though, I also gathered from the interviews that Colorado is more geared towards clinical settings (someone please correct me if I'm wrong!).

I did take repayment into account for these schools. I plugged the values I reported above for each school (initial principal and 4 years of compounding interest) into a repayment calculator of a 10 year repayment at the current 6% interest rate. It came to be $1800/month for Oregon and $22000/month for Colorado. I don't know what I'll net monthly, so I don't really know whether or not one is really any more feasible over the other.

I did like Colorado a bit more based on a feeling, but I do think they have some other more objective things on their side:
-Though somewhat subjective, Colorado is consistently ranked higher than Oregon
-Colorado seems to be more clinically-oriented
-Colorado has much newer facilities
-Being in a health professions campus, Colorado stresses interdisciplinary relationships
-Colorado seems to have a lot of IPPE offerings and connections
-Though it will be more money, Colorado is offering a dual-degree with MPH that I may be interested in, Oregon does not offer this

 

[Son_Goku]

Nobody lives in Colorado by choice.

 

[spacecowgirl]

OSU. Rankings don't matter. Your personality, drive and ability to make connections/network matter far more than anything else you listed. It's 4 years, only 3 of which you spend in the facility. You're not choosing a life partner or even a house to buy, no need to get starry eyed about "fit".

People spend too much time trying to make the One Best Decision. There is almost never one best decision. There are multiple decisions that will all lead somewhere good. Don't stress yourself out about the "perfect" decision.

 

[grizzlesgrizzlies]

That 40k could mean a year of your working life paying that additional debt load.

Go with the cheaper option.

 

[owlegrad]

Nobody lives in Colorado by choice.

Really I had a friend who moved there and loved it.

 

[297point1]

Nobody lives in Colorado by choice.

Dude, you could not be more wrong about this...10,000 people are moving to Colorado EVERY MONTH!!
Denver is reaching capacity...I barely recognized the place when I was there this spring.

Colorado’s population jumped by 101,000 in 12 months – The Denver Post
Denver population boom slows down -- a little -- as the city nears 700,000 residents

 

[Son_Goku]

Dude, you could not be more wrong about this...10,000 people are moving to Colorado EVERY MONTH!!
Denver is reaching capacity...I barely recognized the place when I was there this spring.

Colorado’s population jumped by 101,000 in 12 months – The Denver Post
Denver population boom slows down -- a little -- as the city nears 700,000 residents

Really I had a friend who moved there and loved it.

My bad, I forgot about the weed.

 

[Rouelle]

My bad, I forgot about the weed.

Yeah, and you also have the outdoor scene for anyone wanting hiking/kayaking/canoeing/skiing/cycling/hunting/fishing or virtually anything else outdoors.

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

I'm unsure as to where I want to practice. I love Oregon, but I was hoping for a bit of adventure and to escape the ever-worsening traffic and cost of housing.

Post-grad, I want to do a PGY1 residency and maybe a PGY2. I have been sending emails and asking questions toschools considering their historical match rates. In comparison to the national match rate of 65%, Colorado's 5-year average is 75%; I'm waiting to hear back from Oregon about this same metric because their website only reports their 2015 stat of 87%. Though, I also gathered from the interviews that Colorado is more geared towards clinical settings (someone please correct me if I'm wrong!).

I did take repayment into account for these schools. I plugged the values I reported above for each school (initial principal and 4 years of compounding interest) into a repayment calculator of a 10 year repayment at the current 6% interest rate. It came to be $1800/month for Oregon and $22000/month for Colorado. I don't know what I'll net monthly, so I don't really know whether or not one is really any more feasible over the other.

I did like Colorado a bit more based on a feeling, but I do think they have some other more objective things on their side:
-Though somewhat subjective, Colorado is consistently ranked higher than Oregon
-Colorado seems to be more clinically-oriented
-Colorado has much newer facilities
-Being in a health professions campus, Colorado stresses interdisciplinary relationships
-Colorado seems to have a lot of IPPE offerings and connections
-Though it will be more money, Colorado is offering a dual-degree with MPH that I may be interested in, Oregon does not offer this

Go with cheaper option. Oregon is the smart choice. Student debt burden is no joke especially if you spend 2 years in residency building more interest load.
Having an extra $400 to 500/month will be handy to have, especially with that high debt load.

 

[Sine Cura]

If you are forced to travel to far-flung locations for APPEs that would be kind of relevant especially if you won't have a car

 

[oregonian19]

If you are forced to travel to far-flung locations for APPEs that would be kind of relevant especially if you won't have a car

Both school locations kinda warrant having a car to survive, so that isn't a major concern for picking a school.

 

[spacecowgirl]

I don't know what the COL in Oregon is but it's pretty awful in Denver.

 

[oregonian19]

I don't know what the COL in Oregon is but it's pretty awful in Denver.

Well, for Oregon it depends. Corvallis, where OSU's pharmacy school is, has artificially inflated rent because of the university. Like you pay $600/month to share a dumpy duplex with three other people. That would be two years and you spend six months at OHSU in Portland where rent is prohibitive.

Based on what I saw from Denver, it is more affordable in comparison. I was mostly looking in western Aurora, Stapleton, and Lowry areas.

 

[quickpic007]

go to denver all the way if its only 40k and you like the program and city. its 10k/yr. In my opinion rx is a gamble anyway so enjoy all denver has to offer. a bigger city like denver should have ample intern opportunity as well...

 

[Jbrl]

What are the pros of choosing Oregon besides cost?

If you can't think of anything substantial, then it's just ask yourself whether trading 0.5-1 year's worth of salary is worth the change of scenery, the culture difference of the institution and state, and local opportunities for residency/FT job. That's really what you're paying for. If you're good, you'll get a residency somewhere either way.

What I would do if I were you:
1. Ask the admissions offices if you could speak to current students, under- and upperclassmen, to get their take on various areas of interest - curriculum, opportunities, rotations, student life, etc. Chances they'll refer you to a yes-man kind of student but I'm sure you know to read between the lines. Or just reach out to them via LinkedIn.

2. Ask the financial aid office whether they'd be able to provide any assistance to cover some of the cost differential. They may bend a bit and give you scholarships.

 

[PolarPop]

Isn't in state tuition at OSU like 15k a year? How is the difference only 40k? You'd be crazy to pass that up if so. Yes you may want to leave the state but now is not the time. Apply broadly for residency and leave then. If you get a job early on in pharmacy school you can easily graduate with <100k in loans if you stay in state and it doesn't get much better than that these days.

Maybe if PSLF was available to you it would make sense to leave, but since it won't and your starting salary in 2023 after residency may not even break 100k you should definitely pick the cheaper option.

 

[oregonian19]

What are the pros of choosing Oregon besides cost?

Other than cost, I'm honestly not that sure. Definitely connections and resources within the state. I could be closer to my family, though that isn't a huge factor for me. There's probably more, but I'm not sure. They didn't "wow" me nearly as much. That's kind of significant because I walked into the Colorado with them low on my preference list, Oregon far above them. But after the interviews, kinda switched.

Isn't in state tuition at OSU like 15k a year? How is the difference only 40k? You'd be crazy to pass that up if so. Yes you may want to leave the state but now is not the time. Apply broadly for residency and leave then. If you get a job early on in pharmacy school you can easily graduate with <100k in loans if you stay in state and it doesn't get much better than that these days.

Maybe if PSLF was available to you it would make sense to leave, but since it won't and your starting salary in 2023 after residency may not even break 100k you should definitely pick the cheaper option.

Annual tuition at OSU is $24k. If it were $15k, I wouldn't have as hard of a time picking.

I know PSLF is at a hue risk of being taken away, if that hasn't already happened. Hopefully it will come back with the next administration? Crossing fingers....

 

[Jbrl]

Other than cost, I'm honestly not that sure. Definitely connections and resources within the state. I could be closer to my family, though that isn't a huge factor for me. There's probably more, but I'm not sure. They didn't "wow" me nearly as much. That's kind of significant because I walked into the Colorado with them low on my preference list, Oregon far above them. But after the interviews, kinda switched.

Seems like your heart's set on Colorado. Just confirm your intuition by speaking with several students from each school for more sober opinions and try to negotiate something with financial aid before revisiting the cards on the table. In today's pharmacy student market you might have some leverage if you have a good profile.

 

[oregonian19]

Seems like your heart's set on Colorado. Just confirm your intuition by speaking with several students from each school for more sober opinions and try to negotiate something with financial aid before revisiting the cards on the table. In today's pharmacy student market you might have some leverage if you have a good profile.

Well, I've gotten interview offers with every school I applied to and accepted (so far) with every one I interviewed with. All of them were established public institutions. Does that suggest I do have a good profile without describing all the details here?

Also, how would I go about negotiating with the school?

 

[deleted462159]

Knowing nothing else about what draws you to each school, I'd go with the cheaper one. For the most part, nobody cares where you got your degree.

It's up to you to consider whether location, living situation, and other factors are worth the extra $$ and stress down the line. Remember it's not $40k when you're paying back those loans.

 

[Jbrl]

Well, I've gotten interview offers with every school I applied to and accepted (so far) with every one I interviewed with. All of them were established public institutions. Does that suggest I do have a good profile without describing all the details here?

Also, how would I go about negotiating with the school?

Without any other info, I'd say yes.

Give them a call or drop an email stating your situation - you were accepted to numerous schools, and although thrilled to be accepted to your first choice, you have concerns regarding finances. Other schools are $X-Y cheaper and you were hoping you could speak with someone to see if anything could be done as you really want to attend.

 

[oregonian19]

Well, it wouldn't be much more than $40k. That's the difference in the principal and interest after four years, not just the difference in the principle. Obviously it will grow after those four years, but that's when I will start paying it back.

 

[oregonian19]

Without any other info, I'd say yes.

Give them a call or drop an email stating your situation - you were accepted to numerous schools, and although thrilled to be accepted to your first choice, you have concerns regarding finances. Other schools are $X-Y cheaper and you were hoping you could speak with someone to see if anything could be done as you really want to attend.

Would this actually be possible? Colorado already gave me a $3000 scholarship. Not much, but it's something. They'd probably encourage me to apply for their diversity scholarship (even though I am a white male and not the first in my family to attend college, undergraduate or post-graduate) or seek outside scholarships.

If you think it's possible, I am willing to give it a try.

 

[Rouelle]

This seems a bit iffy to me. I negotiate the purchase price of a car, not tuition...

 

[owlegrad]

I expect a lot of empty promises but I guess it couldn't hurt to try.

 

[Jbrl]

Would this actually be possible? Colorado already gave me a $3000 scholarship. Not much, but it's something. They'd probably encourage me to apply for their diversity scholarship (even though I am a white male and not the first in my family to attend college, undergraduate or post-graduate) or seek outside scholarships.

If you think it's possible, I am willing to give it a try.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Put another way - you don't get anything you don't ask for.

A similar scenario occurred when I chose to attend one undergrad over another. School #2 called me up and asked how they could sweeten the deal. And I'm not the only person this happens to, whether due to need or to competition. MBA schools negotiate with candidates they want to come if those candidates have competing acceptances. Schools can be quite opaque as to what they can do for you, because it's in their best interests to do so.

And I'd bet my money that if a pharmacy school wants you to come and knows you have optionality, they'll reel you in. Give it a shot.

 

[Apotheker2015]

Hello again, everyone.

After going to some more interviews, learning more about the programs I have interviewed with, and doing more number crunching, I have a question about the cost of pharmacy school.

Based on my interview, what I have learned, and the experience at the interview, I really fell in love with the University of Colorado's program. However, when one thinks about cost in comparison to my state school, Oregon State University, I wonder if the difference is worth going to a school I liked more versus saving money.

I did my best to factor in cost of living, tuition, and compounding interest for the school loans over the four years of school. Though, I did NOT factor in any wages that may be made from internships or scholarships I may earn. This analysis came up with:
Colorado - $198k
Oregon - $158k
Difference = $40k

So my question is whether or not $40k is worth going to a school that I liked more? I would like your guys' opinions.

Please, no comments about how I should abandon pharmacy or switch to another profession. I would like a legitimate answer and opinions for my question.

Thank you.

If getting your PharmD in Oregon means you’re saving $40K, then that is your best bet.
Forget about rankings. No one cares where you went. What matters is how well you do, and what else you do outside of academics to set yourself apart. I wasn’t part of the residency band wagon. Thus, I can’t help you there.
Do take into consideration your learning style. There are a lot of schools revamping their curricula. Most of those are putting all their eggs on “flipped classroom” models (Professor does not lecture and students pass the mic around discussing the material) and TBL (team based learning) and PBL (Problem Based Learning).
When executed by truly committed faculty, the flipped classroom model can be very engaging. The same goes for TBL and PBL. However, that is rarely ever the rule. Instead, you will find yourself being forced to attend all these sessions for 8+ hours a day, 5 days a week. You will still be expected to go home and somehow digest everything and do additional readings, homework and prepare for exams.
My humble advice is to stay away from those. You’re an adult now. You’re not there to make friends or socialize. Find out if attendance is required and whether lectures are recorded.
Some schools break up the curriculum in modules. They teach in blocks; e.g., cardiovascular module- then you learn all
Physiology, pharmacology, pharmacitherapy, pharmacokinetics, Patient assessment, related to cardio. That’s nice because it makes it easier to connect the dots and for all that info to become part of your working knowledge.
Hopefully, I’m still under 4500 characters here. My point is that you want to go to the least expensive school possible where you are most likely to succeed. If the school does not fit your learning style, it will be rough. Pharmacy school has this herd mentality... kindda like high school but worse. So make sure you consider all variables.
I almost went to a school that offered me a spot right at the end of the interview. They said “this is off the record but the spot is yours if you want it”. It would have been a lot less expensive for me to go there BUT they had mandatory attendance and assigned seats. They recorded lectures but who would even have time to watch them after a full day of sharing the air I breathe with kindergarteners. No way.
“Do you” - that’s the best advice I’ve ever gotten and my 2 humble cents for you.

Best,

Apotheker2015

 

[GypsyHummus]

40K becomes 60K quickly after 4 years of interest. That is almost a year of take home salary as a pharmacist.

Go to cheap school

 

[oregonian19]

For being members of a detail-oriented profession, a lot of people are failing to notice that I said the $40k difference was including interest after four years of school.

 

[Rouelle]

For being members of a detail-oriented profession, a lot of people are failing to notice that I said the $40k difference was including interest after four years of school.

I may be completely wrong, but I didn’t think interest accumulated while you were in school.

 

[oregonian19]

I may be completely wrong, but I didn’t think interest accumulated while you were in school.

There's subsidized and unsubsidized loans. You don't accrue interest with the subsidized loans, but I don't think FAFSA offers that for the graduate/professional level.

 

[wucool33]

There's subsidized and unsubsidized loans. You don't accrue interest with the subsidized loans, but I don't think FAFSA offers that for the graduate/professional level.

They do... to a certain extent. It won't be enough to cover all of your tuitions, so you would still need to take out some unsubsidized loans.

 

[owlegrad]

They do... to a certain extent. It won't be enough to cover all of your tuitions, so you would still need to take out some unsubsidized loans.

Subsized loans for professional students went the way of the dodo bird, under president Obama (Thanks Obama!).

 

[wucool33]

Subsized loans for professional students went the way of the dodo bird, under president Obama (Thanks Obama!).

Well I’ll be... did not know this. Finally something legit to get mad at Obama about.

 

[owlegrad]

Well I’ll be... did not know this. Finally something legit to get mad at Obama about.

https://www.usnews.com/education/be...13/grad-students-to-lose-federal-loan-subsidy

Yup, I was a student at the time and did not exactly love that decision, LOL

 

[radio frequency]

I chose the cheap school. Luckily, it was also highly regarded.

My colleagues who went out of state or to private schools envy me to this day because they are still stuck paying on loans that seem to have no end in sight. Basically, go to Oregon State and be happy! You can do a residency in Colorado or find your first job there if you’re so enamored.