"Country Club" OMFS Residences?

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Are there any 4yr programs that are known for being for private practice oriented and dont take crazy trauma call meaning a slighlty better work life balance? I believe the term is a country club program but it seems that had a negative connotation associated with it. I am asking for two reasons. One, if the average work week is even 70-80 hours a week that will be a lot lighter on my body than 100 hour work weeks which I can handle, but givien my medical history why shorten my life span if I can avoid it? The second reason is that I know long term I only plan to work private practise and maybe 1 day in the hospital a week max. Again its not from a source of "what is the easiest way to make my way through residence", I am looking at it from a realistic point of view.

I've heard rutgers and temple are good examples. Any others?
 
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Are there any 4yr programs that are known for being for private practice oriented and dont take crazy trauma call meaning a slighlty better work life balance? I believe the term is a country club program but it seems that had a negative connotation associated with it. I am asking for two reasons. One, if the average work week is even 70-80 hours a week that will be a lot lighter on my body than 100 hour work weeks which I can handle, but givien my medical history why shorten my life span if I can avoid it? The second reason is that I know long term I only plan to work private practise and maybe 1 day in the hospital a week max. Again its not from a source of "what is the easiest way to make my way through residence", I am looking at it from a realistic point of view.

I've heard rutgers and temple are good examples. Any others?
40 hours work week will be even lot lighter on your body. Even a desk job.

This is the funniest **** I’ve ever read
 
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Country club or not will have the same impact as far as physical toll, neck and back issues are somewhat common so keep good posture.

I don't think any OMFS program is truly a country club. Look for programs with better call schedules (usually they will have more residents and non-cats), avoid 24/7 trauma, and avoid cancer. Externships will be helpful in figuring these out, and talking to the residents.

Also just be subtle about looking for these things. Even when talking with residents, approach it cautiously lol. The truth is (as you can see with the comments above), OMFS is about the grind. Programs really don't like laziness, it's a big red flag. The reality is, a lot of applicants are looking for country clubs. It is what it is. But just be subtle when asking, and also keep in mind there is no true country club, and if that is a big issue you may want to consider another specialty (perio).

Monte and Loyola seemed better with work life balance and just seemed like good programs (more dentoalveolar focused too). Check them out, but I really don't know on their hours. All programs will be busy.
 
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Just do OMS if you're interested in it. Being successful in dentistry is hard work even if you don't do OMS. As a general dentist, I log 60-70 hrs each week. It's not the same as going in "on call", but I am also fielding calls over the weekend. Each hour, I typically see 4 patients. Have you externed or spent time with your school's program? They are not. From my experience, the typical day of an OMS resident is not too bad. There was a lot of water-cooler and academic enrichment time. Enjoy the ride.
 
Just do OMS if you're interested in it. Being successful in dentistry is hard work even if you don't do OMS. As a general dentist, I log 60-70 hrs each week. It's not the same as going in "on call", but I am also fielding calls over the weekend. Each hour, I typically see 4 patients. Have you externed or spent time with your school's program? They are not. From my experience, the typical day of an OMS resident is not too bad. There was a lot of water-cooler and academic enrichment time. Enjoy the ride.
Yeah man 4 hygiene patients every hour sounds like a crazy brutal grind🤣
 
Yeah man 4 hygiene patients every hour sounds like a crazy brutal grind🤣
Does your dental office schedule four dental hygiene patients with the dentist? Genuinely curious. My message to the OP is that they're going to work hard either way if they want to make the most of their degree. They might as well go into the field that they find most interesting.
 
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Does your dental office schedule four dental hygiene patients with the dentist? Genuinely curious. My message to the OP is that they're going to work hard either way if they want to make the most of their degree. They might as well go into the field that they find most interesting.
I agree with you people on here are just salty
 
Just do OMS if you're interested in it. Being successful in dentistry is hard work even if you don't do OMS. As a general dentist, I log 60-70 hrs each week. It's not the same as going in "on call", but I am also fielding calls over the weekend. Each hour, I typically see 4 patients. Have you externed or spent time with your school's program? They are not. From my experience, the typical day of an OMS resident is not too bad. There was a lot of water-cooler and academic enrichment time. Enjoy the ride.

Agree 100%. Glad I didn't go through what you're going through right now.
 

Sounds like a star in making here
He may have started out with good intentions. Who knows. He should be made an example of and completely thrown under the bus at every level by every dental organization. There needs to be a “sacrificial lamb.” That’s really not the right word. He deserves severe reprimand and likely revocation of his license permanently.
 
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Yeah man 4 hygiene patients every hour sounds like a crazy brutal grind🤣

4 hygiene patients an hour... I guess it depends on how productive you are and time spent per patient. If you're doing 100/pt-hour, but your actual time is 1-2 mins of actual chair time, then that's a lot more reasonable than 100/pt-hour but take10-15 mins of chair time per pt. Take away what your actual productivity would be from the hygiene patient (cost of exam vs radiographs vs outsourced labor of hygiene and that will get you closer to your true productivity).
 
Agree with some of the posters
There is no free lunch
Do a good four yr where you can max out your OS months. Learn literally as much as you can. Try to be in the OR even if it’s holding stick when your off service. This is your time to absorb as much as you can.

Continuing Ed is EXPENSIVE. just immerse yourself. Forget how cush your years are. You’ll sleep when you’re dead.
 
Go to a program where you're going to learn the most possible and make the most of it...only thing worse than not matching to OMFS would be lack of competence at graduation from taking it easy.

Be a sponge, "no" shouldn't be a word in your vocabulary. It's a good gig after, but 4 years flies by so keep your head down and grind.
 
My question would be, what's wrong with having an easy residency that focuses on the relatively easier aspects of OMFS (such as 3rds, implants and dentoalveolar) and less of the more intensive and possibly less profitable procedures?
Because learning how to take out thirds and place implants isn’t what makes you a surgeon
 
We already got perio for that.

Some may see that as the smart choice by focusing on the bread and butter as long as the pay is the same for procedures.

Because learning how to take out thirds and place implants isn’t what makes you a surgeon

That's true, the OMFS scope should be more than thirds and implants, but in private practice, it seems like a lot of OMFS limit it to that (they don't want to see TMJ, path, trauma, etc...).
 
I believe what the posters above are saying is that advertising yourself as an OMFS requires you to actually be a competent surgeon and not just a super GP pulling thirds and placing implants. You need to be able to handle pathology and complications in private practice. There's nothing wrong with limiting yourself to that scope or focusing on profit but it's the same reason we don't skip cleanings and fillings and spend all of dental school learning just crowns.
 
Opposite end question. What OMFS residencies are considered the most intense/give the best experience?
 
Completely my opinion but as a current resident this is what I think:

6 years: NOLA, UAB, Parkland, Baylor
4 years: Miami, VCU, Minnesota, Christiana.

Completely my opinion but as a current resident this is what I think:

6 years: NOLA, UAB, Parkland, Baylor
4 years: Miami, VCU, Minnesota, Christiana.
Consistently strong 4 years: Oklahoma, cinncinati, Rutgers, Gainesville
 
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My list of programs 4+6 years that I have noticed to be popular from externships, interviews, and directly from applicants over the years. This is based on my view of overall experience, surgical competency, scope of practice, and resident/faculty culture. Not comprehensive by any means if I left some programs out because I am not familiar with all of them.

4 years: Christiana, Medstar, UF Gainesville, Miami, Loyola, Cook County, Iowa, Indiana, NOLA, Minnesota, Rutgers, Montefiore, Cincinnati, MUSC, VCU, Augusta

6 years: UCLA, UF Gainesville, Kentucky, Louisville, NOLA, Mayo, Michigan, Nebraska, Rutgers, Penn, Parkland, Baylor/Texas A&M
 
My list of programs 4+6 years that I have noticed to be popular from externships, interviews, and directly from applicants over the years. This is based on my view of overall experience, surgical competency, scope of practice, and resident/faculty culture. Not comprehensive by any means if I left some programs out because I am not familiar with all of them.

4 years: Christiana, Medstar, UF Gainesville, Miami, Loyola, Cook County, Iowa, Indiana, NOLA, Minnesota, Rutgers, Montefiore, Cincinnati, MUSC, VCU, Augusta

6 years: UCLA, UF Gainesville, Kentucky, Louisville, NOLA, Mayo, Michigan, Nebraska, Rutgers, Penn, Parkland, Baylor/Texas A&M
Loyola, Augusta, Minnesota, Louisville not as strong as the others listed. Not saying they are bad but just to narrow it down.
 
As someone at Baylor, I agree with the us being strong; however, just curious how applicants these days are coming up with their assessment of programs? Word of mouth? SDN? Externships? Reddit?

Just good to know for the future.
The relative dearth of recent information on this website is frustrating….even word of mouth is hard simply because I’m only really hearing things from D4s and D3s above me who obviously have their own priorities and things they’re looking for in programs.
 
The relative dearth of recent information on this website is frustrating….even word of mouth is hard simply because I’m only really hearing things from D4s and D3s above me who obviously have their own priorities and things they’re looking for in programs.
Let’s see if I can help out a bit. Do yourself a favor…disregard people on here throwing out lists of good or bad. Over and over someone will make a list for another person to only add or remove names in a follow up thread but they never provide any specific information why…none! Honestly, even as a resident, for the most part we mostly can only speak about our own experience at our residency. We might hear something here and there from a friend from dental school at another program but other than that rarely anything concrete. Call it lucky or whatever but I landed in the exact program that I wanted and I’m very satisfied! This is what I did.

Here are some real avenues you can take:
1. Speak to current residents (but be careful what you ask about and how that might come across)
2. Speak to OMFS folks at your dental school (they can provide some insight)
3. Externships
4. In person interviews (can give you a “gut feeling” about a program…listen to it).
5. Location matters…high population…no other OMFS programs that are serving that same population…I think that’s important. You do want a program that is very busy.
6. Trauma 1
7. How is the work being divided between OMFS/ENT/plastics
8. Scope of work…places that have fellows or OMFS attending who had a fellowship just make sure you want to do that scope of work because you will do a lot of it.
9. Does the program service a VA hospital (this can indicate heavy implant cases) although many that are not associated with the VA have more than enough cases.
10. How long has the PD/chair/attendings been at the program and what training and reputation they have in the field (reputation can be somewhat difficult to determine for most programs).
11. Is it a resident run program.
12. Do you see yourself being ok living in the area.
13. For 6 year programs, do they pay for tuition or pay for most of the tuition…do they offer a full stipend while in medical school or partial stipend. This is not only important for cost saving but I think it says something about the program itself.
14. I guess looking at programs that lose residents can mean something…but we are talking about a handful of programs we hear about out of 100.

Final thought…not trying to sound too optimistic…LOL, but seriously, I think by doing your due diligence you will get into a program that suits what your career goals are in OMFS. The bottom line is that OMFS, by far, is one of the best medical fields to be in. At the end of the day, I guess there can a be an exception to this, you will get out of the program what you put into it!

Good Luck!!! It will turn out ok!
 
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Let’s see if I can help out a bit. Do yourself a favor…disregard people on here throwing out lists of good or bad. Over and over someone will make a list for another person to only add or remove names in a follow up thread but they never provide any specific information why…none! Honestly, even as a resident, for the most part we mostly can only speak about our own experience at our residency. We might hear something here and there from a friend from dental school at another program but other than that rarely anything concrete. Call it lucky or whatever but I landed in the exact program that I wanted and I’m very satisfied! This is what I did.

Here are some real avenues you can take:
1. Speak to current residents (but be careful what you ask about and how that might come across)
2. Speak to OMFS folks at your dental school (they can provide some insight)
3. Externships
4. In person interviews (can give you a “gut feeling” about a program…listen to it).
5. Location matters…high population…no other OMFS programs that are serving that same population…I think that’s important. You do want a program that is very busy.
6. Trauma 1
7. How is the work being divided between OMFS/ENT/plastics
8. Scope of work…places that have fellows or OMFS attending who had a fellowship just make sure you want to do that scope of work because you will do a lot of it.
9. Does the program service a VA hospital (this can indicate heavy implant cases) although many that are not associated with the VA have more than enough cases.
10. How long has the PD/chair/attendings been at the program and what training and reputation they have in the field (reputation can be somewhat difficult to determine for most programs).
11. Is it a resident run program.
12. Do you see yourself being ok living in the area.
13. For 6 year programs, do they pay for tuition or pay for most of the tuition…do they offer a full stipend while in medical school or partial stipend. This is not only important for cost saving but I think it says something about the program itself.
14. I guess looking at programs that lose residents can mean something…but we are talking about a handful of programs we here about out of 100.

Final thought…not trying to sound too optimistic…LOL, but seriously, I think by doing your due diligence you will get into a program that suits what your career goals are in OMFS. The bottom line is that OMFS, by far, is one of the best medical fields to be in. At the end of the day, I guess there can a be an exception to this, you will get out of the program what you put into it!

Good Luck!!! It will turn out ok!
Thank you, great summation. I feel like I have 2-3 locations where I absolutely want to extent/am scheduled, but that 3rd & 4th spot is where I’m pretty torn.
 
after 15+ years of practice, 3rds and implants can become very monotonous. No joke. I went to Michigan and lament the amount of skills I lost once I entered into bread and butter private practice.

Now at the ripe age of almost 51 I realize I miss those bigger cases. I started reading again. A lot. Attending courses. Hanging out with buddies who do broad scope. And now I’m applying for privileges to get back into the local hospital system so I can get back into the game and tackle more challenging stuff.

Don’t waste your residency years or the hereafter. You will make plenty when you get out. Those ortho, TMJ, pathology cases have their own great rewards. And they’re fun as hell to boot. So while you have the opportunity, grind away!!