COVID: Omicron and other topics

[thegenius]

You just wrote

More and more studies are coming out showing the value of natural immunity.

What is the value of natural immunity? That is not a claim in the paper. You made this assertion.

Were vaccines wasted on those who were already immune during the many months they were in short supply?

No, and even you have written time and time again that natural immunity WITH vaccine immunity is the best kind of immunity to get.

Did people who posed no greater risk than those who were vaccinated get fired, disparaged and humiliated, for no good reason?

Who is making the assertion about "no greater risk?" This is not a conclusion drawn by the paper. I think you came up with that conclusion. The paper makes no claim about whether the existence of antibodies can defend someone against future SARS-COV2 infections. It's right there in the discussion:

"Although evidence of natural immunity in unvaccinated healthy US adults up to 20 months after confirmed COVID-19 infection is encouraging, it is unclear how these antibody levels correlate with protection against future SARS-CoV-2 infections, particularly with emerging variants."


All this paper shows is that people have more than one serum antibody up to 20 months after an infection. It's not that surprising.

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[Birdstrike]

I'm vaccinated, boosted and post-COVID and happy to know naturally acquired immunity bolsters my vaccine acquired immunity (hybrid immunity is the best).

Naturally immunity is good, just like vaccine-acquired. There's no way in which it's bad. It helps the vaccinated and unvaccinated. Yet bizarrely, its as if an Anti-Natural Immunity Tribe has formed, cheering like savages at the Coliseum, for it to be vanquished in defeat. Why?! Any form of immunity that limits this virus' spread, is a good thing!

As the virus mutates and outpaces our ability to develop vaccines targeted to the latest variant, natural immunity is the only thing to bridge the gap. Yet certain people are cheering for it to not exist. It's quite amazing.

 

[Janders]

Right but it doesn’t show naturally acquired immunity has persistence, or any outcome-based metric. It shows an anti-body lasts a long time. Interesting, but not prime time data.

 

[Birdstrike]

NEJM

Efficacy of Natural Immunity against SARS-CoV-2 Reinfection with the Beta Variant​

"Protection by previous SARS-CoV-2 infection against reinfection with the beta variant was observed, even 1 year after the primary infection..."

 

[Birdstrike]

Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections

"This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant."

 

[Birdstrike]

Lancet

Protective immunity after recovery from SARS-CoV-2 infection​

"We reviewed studies published in PubMed from inception to Sept 28, 2021, and found well conducted biological studies showing protective immunity after infection (panel). Furthermore, multiple epidemiological and clinical studies, including studies during the recent period of predominantly delta (B.1.617.2) variant transmission, found that the risk of repeat SARS-CoV-2 infection decreased by 80·5–100% among those who had had COVID-19 previously"

 

[Birdstrike]

CDC

"Multiple studies in different settings have consistently shown that infection with SARS-CoV-2 and vaccination each result in a low risk of subsequent infection with antigenically similar variants for at least 6 months. Numerous immunologic studies and a growing number of epidemiologic studies have shown that vaccinating previously infected individuals significantly enhances their immune response and effectively reduces the risk of subsequent infection, including in the setting of increased circulation of more infectious variants."

 

[nimbus]

Yep.
He's a better comedian than he is anything else.

I prefer @ayypatrick on TikTok.

 

[nimbus]

Then is it also possible to curse God for the poor outcomes; especially when the medicine was done well and correctly?

“I don’t believe in an interventionist God”—-Nick Cave


I know a few people who are angry at God, but for the most part, he has a pretty good gig. Gets the credit when things go well. Rarely gets blamed and has no liability.

 

[Birdstrike]

“I don’t believe in an interventionist God”—-Nick Cave


I know a few people who are angry at God, but for the most part, he has a pretty good gig. Gets the credit when things go well. Rarely gets blamed and has no liability.

Lol. That's a really funny way to look at it.

 

[WilcoWorld]

“I don’t believe in an interventionist God”—-Nick Cave


I know a few people who are angry at God, but for the most part, he has a pretty good gig. Gets the credit when things go well. Rarely gets blamed and has no liability.

GREAT song

 

[Siggy]

Listing of people who attempted to obtain natural immunity to COVID...

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Cheering on natural immunity is like cheering on mumps (assuming natural mumps immunity is better than vaccine immunity) and ignoring the boys who became sterile as acceptable losses.

 

[nimbus]

Fox Hosts Lionized an Ex-State Trooper for His Anti-Vax Stance. Then He Died of COVID-19. — Vanity Fair

Robert LaMay was portrayed by Fox as a martyr for defying vaccine mandates, but its hosts haven’t yet acknowledged the rest of the story.

apple.news

 

[Birdstrike]

Get vaccinated.

If you're fully vaccinated and boosted (as I am) and you still get covid despite all precautions (which I did) any additional immunity you get from that infection, i.e. 'natural immunity,' is a good thing. I don't see how that is so hard to understand. That is also fully compatible with being pro-vaccine, which I am. Yet some fully vaccinated people are desperately hoping that they don't get any additional immunity from their breakthrough infections. It boggles my mind. Read about hybrid immunity. You're going to need it, because the virus works faster than the vaccine makers.

Get vaccinated.

 

[turkeyjerky]

Get vaccinated.

If you're fully vaccinated and boosted (as I am) and you still get covid despite all precautions (which I did) any additional immunity you get from that infection, is a good thing. I don't see how that is so hard to understand. That is also fully compatible with being pro-vaccine, which I am. Yet some fully vaccinated people are desperately hoping that they don't get any additional immunity from their breakthrough infections. It boggles my mind. Read about hybrid immunity. You're going to need it, because the virus works faster than the vaccine makers.

Get vaccinated.

I haven’t come across that (very illogical) attitude. Granted, I think that this has brought out the latent crazy in a lot of people, so I’m not completely dubious.

 

[Birdstrike]

I haven’t come across that (very illogical) attitude.

You're lucky.

I think it was a big mistake to make such strong denials early on about the existence of natural immunity in any form (John Snow Memorandum – signed by CDC Director, Rochelle Wolensky – “there is no evidence for lasting protective immunity to SARS-CoV-2 following natural infection.”)

I understand they didn't want it to be used as a reason to skip the vaccine. But it was risky, because all it's done is increase the level of distrust, now that more and more research is showing there's a significant contribution from natural immunity, which was inevitable. They easily could have said, "It's risky to rely on natural immunity alone," that "it's not enough," or "you still need the vaccine," or something more honest. But to outright lie about something not existing, that we knew was going to eventually be shown to exist, was a big mistake in my opinion. It just strengthens the anti-vaxxers' resistance. "See, they lied to me. They said it didn't exist! It does, we have proof! Ignored everything the CDC says, because we're smarter than them."

You can convince people to get vaccinated without having to tell obviously disprovable lies.

 

[Lawpy]

Meta-analysis from researchers at Johns Hopkins, Sweden and Denmark:

"This meta-analysis concludes that lockdowns have had little to no public health effects, they have imposed enormous economic and social costs where they have been adopted. In consequence, lockdown policies are ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy instrument."

https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature-Review-and-Meta-Analysis-of-the-Effects-of-Lockdowns-on-COVID-19-Mortality.pdf

Lockdowns are dumb.

I’ve been slamming lockdowns since the start of the pandemic so this doesn’t surprise me.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I’ve been slamming lockdowns since the start of the pandemic so this doesn’t surprise me.

Before you strain your arm patting yourself on the back: Here's What We Know About 'Johns Hopkins Study' on Lockdowns

 

[turkeyjerky]

Looks like the Paxlovid data is finally published. Seems to check out, but hopefully others can point out the statistical chicanery.

Oral Nirmatrelvir for High-Risk, Nonhospitalized Adults with Covid-19

Importantly:

"Key exclusion criteria were previous confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection or hospitalization for Covid-19, anticipated need for hospitalization within 48 hours after randomization, and prior receipt of convalescent Covid-19 plasma or SARS-CoV-2 vaccine."

 

[thegenius]

Is that for real? The exclusion criteria?
So they excluded everybody who either had covid, had the vaccine, or convalescent plasma?

That's going to be like 90% of people

 

[lucid_leprechaun]

Is that for real? The exclusion criteria?
So they excluded everybody who either had covid, had the vaccine, or convalescent plasma?

That's going to be like 90% of people

I like the “anticipated admission within 48 hrs.” They have a crystal ball? I’ll have to get one. Most of my patients are admitted now or discharged home 😄

 

[Birdstrike]

New Zealand's going to have to change its "Zero COVID" policy to "Two Hundred Thousand COVID Policy?"