CPJE board exam breached?

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Curious about this as well...
 
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If you're paying $500+ for an exam you should expect them to develop a deep enough question bank that this doesn't happen.
 
...is anybody really shocked by this? The CPJE isn't a real law exam and doesn't test on competency. It tests on whether you can memorize obscure facts and minute details about pharmacy. So is it really a surprise this drives many students to cheat? Especially considering the abysmal pass rate year after year?
 
BMBiology said:
What happened the last 2 times?
Click to expand...

1. Morris-Cody (2003-2006?): Question banking but actual payoffs to clinical professors who had written question (big scandal and led to negative post-tenure review on many faculty which were swept under the rug).

2. UCSD 2009: One idiot professor gave his lover his NABP password for the question writing time and the entire bank for both NAPLEX and MPJE were disclosed, that's the reason for the recentering around that time. The dean of question writers, a New Yorker, gave him the Yankee treatment for thinking with his other head and costing all of us a special year of service hell rewriting and redoing all those questions. Needless to say, the incoming dean at UCSD went through all the appeals and such to sack him (did not let him resign).

To be fair, the era between 2001 and 2006 had game-show rigged questions that only someone in CA or someone who did the review course would know to cover. The worst one was the year before mine with the ACLS question: which was obscure, a topic that was declared to be elective, and one that had a very particular answer. My year was the HIV question, which I remember having to preface my answer with something about ICSA 2004 standards changing before I answered. I passed handily on first try, but I was pretty angry at the time and even now for how bad the psychometrics and topic coverage were. The CALPLEX to MPJE-California Clinical exam have been progressively made more fair, but I still consider the fairest in terms of balance and psychometrics while still being the most difficult exam for pharmacy that I ever took to be the Canadian PEBC (and I actually consider the BCNP to be also very fair but trivially easy for anyone who did the two years postgrad and had enough hours on the subject).
 
Gombrich12 said:
I'd start calling classmates and see about getting lawyers involved. A lot of financial harm has been done here.
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I wonder if there is anyone the lawyers can squeeze other than the cheating new grads with $200k+ in loans who will never be licensed.
 
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Gombrich12 said:
I'd start calling classmates and see about getting lawyers involved. A lot of financial harm has been done here.
Click to expand...

I wish it worked that way, unfortunately, remember that government sloth on licensing is not contestable as the work is upon credible evaluation, so the Board has sovereign immunity on the matter. I'd be suing the ones who caused the problem, like the year Morris-Cody did (they did have to settle with CVS and Walgreens and went out of business for a time).
 
I'd be suing the CBOP so hard and so fast lol
 
BenJammin said:
I'd be suing the CBOP so hard and so fast lol
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Again, no you can't. It's a sovereign immunity issue, and you and rest of us don't have a "right" to your license. That's literally what a license means, the government grants you the ability to conduct operations according to the license. And, you have to establish that they were the cause, which unless the CBOP breached itself, then you have to go after the actual parties that caused the situation to begin with. The CBOP is acting validly within their ambit to ensure public integrity of the licensing process. Just sucks for all those innocents, but the Board isn't the target, the cheaters and the ring are.
 
My gf graduated early May 2019. I believe she had her school sent all the required documents to CA BOP as soon as she could (possibly around April). They gave her a 2 months waiting period; I guess you are not supposed to contact them during that time. Of course they never answer calls nor emails so she physically went to Sacramento twice to see them after the 2 months period. It turned out they lost her transcript due to moving; and blamed it on the school. She didn't get her ATT until mid August (~4 months). I have talked to a few grad interns and most of them have issues with BOP losing paperworks (1 individual they lost her entire application??). As a result many of them are scheduled to take CPJE around this time and unfortunately this happened. Through all this time hearing complaints from gf I can certainly feel the frustration and desperation of new grads. Sure we can't sue them on this cheating matter, I believe lawyers can find plenty of cases like my gf. She is thinking of NV license in the mean time since it might take a few months to come up with new exams (already 5 months unemployed, student loans and uncertainty of getting license anytime soon)
 
Last edited:
If you read the Reddit thread on this, someone claimed UCSF students were involved

A bunch of students went in and were able to record or digitally compile questions and created a document that was shared. Unfortunately, one of the students recently ended a relationship with a significant other who was upset over the break up and took the evidence to the CA BOP. Hundreds of people affected due to a lover's scorn.
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LOL @ UCSF
LOL @ test security
LOL @ ****ing classmates during school (I only did that AFTER school)

As for jobs in Nevada I saw an opening for part-timer for a Raley's in Elko
 
Sine Cura said:
If you read the Reddit thread on this, someone claimed UCSF students were involved



LOL @ UCSF
LOL @ test security
LOL @ ****ing classmates during school (I only did that AFTER school)

As for jobs in Nevada I saw an opening for part-timer for a Raley's in Elko
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Can someone confirm this? If true..UCSF went from #1 to a school fulled of big mouth cheaters.
 
pharmaland said:
My gf graduated early May 2019. I believe she had her school sent all the required documents to CA BOP as soon as she could (possibly around April). They gave her a 2 months waiting period; I guess you are not supposed to contact them during that time. Of course they never answer calls nor emails so she physically went to Sacramento twice to see them after the 2 months period. It turned out they lost her transcript due to moving; and blamed it on the school. She didn't get her ATT until mid August (~4 months). I have talked to a few grad interns and most of them have issues with BOP losing paperworks (1 individual they lost her entire application??). As a result many of them are scheduled to take CPJE around this time and unfortunately this happened. Through all this time hearing complaints from gf I can certainly feel the frustration and desperation of new grads. Sure we can't sue them on this cheating matter, I believe lawyers can find plenty of cases like my gf. She is thinking of NV license in the mean time since it might take a few months to come up with new exams (already 5 months unemployed, student loans and uncertainty of getting license anytime soon)
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In a very similar position here.
Fiance moved from PA to CA to live with me and all his stuff and application was in by May. They cashed his check on 5/11 and then never got back to him despite multiple calls and emails.
If inally angrily tweeted at the CBoP and had a response within minutes saying he should email them. He sent an email referencing how their twitter response time is exceptionally better than their email response time. They answered in 8 minutes and magically found his application.
It litteraly took public shaming on twitter to get a response.
And now this crap. He was a pharmacist in one of the busiest pharmacies in PA for 5 years and now he can't even work because of all the BS going on. He has some money saved up but who knows how long this is going to take.
So frustratinG!
 
BMBiology said:
Can someone confirm this? If true..UCSF went from #1 to a school fulled of big mouth cheaters.
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The fault and idiocy of a few does not contaminate the hard work and ethics of many. Stop stereotyping. And it's "a school *filled with", not fulled...
 
unicorn93 said:
The fault and idiocy of a few does not contaminate the hard work and ethics of many. Stop stereotyping. And it's "a school *filled with", not fulled...
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This fool sounds so bitter. Tell us what happened. How did your classmates get caught?
 
It’s not like getting a PharmD is hard nowadays. All you need is a pulse and $200k+ in student loans.
 
Even UCSF has some pretty sub-par students but they hide behind the brand name of their school/other graduate programs. You should go listen to their recruiter talk about admissions and how their minimum gpa of 2.8 is a “soft” number and that they consider “the entire application.”
 
Pharmacy is a Scam said:
Even UCSF has some pretty sub-par students but they hide behind the brand name of their school/other graduate programs. You should go listen to their recruiter talk about admissions and how their minimum gpa of 2.8 is a “soft” number and that they consider “the entire application.”
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A 2.8 minimum GPA is a joke in the first place for the so called #1 pharmacy school in the nation. It's really embarrassing what schools are letting walk through their doors these days.
 
BMBiology said:
This fool sounds so bitter. Tell us what happened. How did your classmates get caught?
Click to expand...
Haha, no affiliation. But no I'm being serious. I'm sure you didn't cheat, but if someone lumped you in the group with the cheaters, you wouldn't be too happy either.
 
Pharmacy is a Scam said:
Even UCSF has some pretty sub-par students but they hide behind the brand name of their school/other graduate programs. You should go listen to their recruiter talk about admissions and how their minimum gpa of 2.8 is a “soft” number and that they consider “the entire application.”
Click to expand...
Sounds like someone is unhappy they didn't get accepted.
 
youRCC said:
Research and innovation in the field of pharmacy that gets published into scientific journals.
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What innovation are you talking about?

UCSF is considered number 1 because US News released a ranking based on NIH funding and UCSF was on top. It is also because it is “UCSF” and it was relatively cheap back then.

I am good friends with several UCSF pharmacists and none of them really had good things to say about the school.
 
BMBiology said:
What innovation are you talking about?

UCSF is considered number 1 because US News released a ranking based on NIH funding and UCSF was on top.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the amount of professors at that school that have awards and recognition (e.g. Nobel Prize, etc.), and those professors write proposals for grants, which provide funding for research, then eventually get published and/or get awarded for innovation.
 
Went to pharmacy school with a girl that did undergrad in biochemical engineering and barely got a 2.2 in that. In pharmacy school, she got a perfect 4.0 and was only student able to do so. GPA shouldn't be the only factor considered...
 
UCSF2021 said:
Went to pharmacy school with a girl that did undergrad in biochemical engineering and barely got a 2.2 in that. In pharmacy school, she got a perfect 4.0 and was only student able to do so. GPA shouldn't be the only factor considered...
Click to expand...

I went to high school with a girl who barely passed. She then went to college and failed out after 2 semesters.

Does UCSF post still their class admissions profile? I don’t see it anymore.
 
youRCC said:
Yeah, the amount of professors at that school that have awards and recognition (e.g. Nobel Prize, etc.), and those professors write proposals for grants, which provide funding for research, then eventually get published and/or get awarded for innovation.
Click to expand...

Did any of these Nobel prize winners come from the school of pharmacy? Maybe in research but I would say USC is much more “innovative” in pharmacy practice than UCSF.
 
mentos said:
So school rankings have nothing to do with how well they'll prepare you to get licensed? Gotcha.
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IME, not really. I used to precept and took students from several schools. The ranking of the school was more related to the attitude and entitlement vs performance.
 
UCSF2021 said:
Went to pharmacy school with a girl that did undergrad in biochemical engineering and barely got a 2.2 in that. In pharmacy school, she got a perfect 4.0 and was only student able to do so. GPA shouldn't be the only factor considered...
Click to expand...

Biomedical engineering is a whole different beast so I would have to give them credit even if a 2.2 GPA.

Students these days are getting accepted into pharmacy schools with 2.2 GPAs in their basic prereq courses from community colleges which are a joke compared to hard majors at reputable state schools.
 
It has been an emotional roller coaster dealing with this incompetent board. First they say 30-45 days, a few weeks in, it was extended to 45-60 days. I call a week later and the new wait time is 60-90 days. Now with 3 weeks left until my 90 day mark, this **** drops. This is so unfair, I'm in jeopardy of losing my position because of this wait. I have no words to describe how frustrated I'm with this whole process, I mean at least let me know if I passed or not, is that really too much to ask for. I've struggled with depression and anxiety which has stemmed from all of this. I can't count how many times I've broken down in tears, not knowing what my future entails.
 
stoichiometrist said:
Biomedical engineering is a whole different beast so I would have to give them credit even if a 2.2 GPA.

Students these days are getting accepted into pharmacy schools with 2.2 GPAs in their basic prereq courses from community colleges which are a joke compared to hard majors at reputable state schools.
Click to expand...

I was gonna say, 2.2 in biochemical engineering is a solid effort and a degree at the end. IIRC the average GPA for MIMG at UCLA was 2.8 or so. Lots of programs have held the line on grade inflation quite well.
 
lord999 said:
1. Morris-Cody (2003-2006?): Question banking but actual payoffs to clinical professors who had written question (big scandal and led to negative post-tenure review on many faculty which were swept under the rug).

2. UCSD 2009: One idiot professor gave his lover his NABP password for the question writing time and the entire bank for both NAPLEX and MPJE were disclosed, that's the reason for the recentering around that time. The dean of question writers, a New Yorker, gave him the Yankee treatment for thinking with his other head and costing all of us a special year of service hell rewriting and redoing all those questions. Needless to say, the incoming dean at UCSD went through all the appeals and such to sack him (did not let him resign).

To be fair, the era between 2001 and 2006 had game-show rigged questions that only someone in CA or someone who did the review course would know to cover. The worst one was the year before mine with the ACLS question: which was obscure, a topic that was declared to be elective, and one that had a very particular answer. My year was the HIV question, which I remember having to preface my answer with something about ICSA 2004 standards changing before I answered. I passed handily on first try, but I was pretty angry at the time and even now for how bad the psychometrics and topic coverage were. The CALPLEX to MPJE-California Clinical exam have been progressively made more fair, but I still consider the fairest in terms of balance and psychometrics while still being the most difficult exam for pharmacy that I ever took to be the Canadian PEBC (and I actually consider the BCNP to be also very fair but trivially easy for anyone who did the two years postgrad and had enough hours on the subject).
Click to expand...

But what was the boards reaction those 2 times? Did they withhold scores and cancel tests like they are doing this time?
 
UCSF2021 said:
Went to pharmacy school with a girl that did undergrad in biochemical engineering and barely got a 2.2 in that. In pharmacy school, she got a perfect 4.0 and was only student able to do so. GPA shouldn't be the only factor considered...
Click to expand...

Any passing grade is good for engineering. Only the top 1% get close to a 4.0 unlike other majors.
 
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