CPMC Residency Program closure

[CPMC Radiation Oncology]

Hi everyone, this post is being made collectively by the CPMC Radiation Oncology residents.

We are sad to announce that CPMC is voluntarily closing our residency program at the end of this year. We were given this news two days ago, and it is related to multiple imminent changes at CPMC. Our department’s radiobiology lab is closing along with CPMC California Campus, multiple older faculty members are simultaneously retiring, and our program director is stepping down from his role at the end of this year in order to join the ACR Board of Chancellors. Our department has already informed the ACGME of the intention to close the program.

We want to emphasize that this decision was made unilaterally by CPMC without direction from the ACGME. We have had no citations or warnings, and have never been placed on probation. Our program will remain fully accredited until it closes at the end of June.

As a result, we will not be matching a new resident this year. We are deeply sorry on behalf of our entire department for those of you who made the investment of time, effort, and money to come interview with us. It was wonderful to meet so many talented applicants, and we’re sure you’ll all go on to be fantastic radiation oncologists.

Those of us in years PGY-1 through PGY-4 are in the process of looking for new programs to continue our training, but at this time it is still too early to say what’s next for us.

We don’t have many details beyond what we already shared here, but If there are any questions, we’ll do our best to answer them.

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[Gfunk6]

Well, this is certainly terrible news for the residents there.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Damn.

Disappointing that they didn't have some method of ensuring their residents would be OK first.

Wonder if these residents were funded through Medicare or sponsored by the department. Hopefully all 4 of them can land on their feet somewhere.

 

[deleted18755]

Damn.

Disappointing that they didn't have some method of ensuring their residents would be OK first.

Wait so multiple older attendings just decided in January that they would all retire in June? Assuming it wasn’t for coincidental sudden health reasons that obviously was not the case (I don’t know anybody from this department and not even sure what CP is an abbreviation for until I looked it up but have met plenty of very selfish old academic attendings who always do what’s absolutely most convenient for themselves with no regard for trainees or even the department let alone field).

I wish you guys luck and as much as I hate the residency expansion I hope it allows all you guys to find a quality place to continue your training (I can’t even imagine being a PGY-4 starting to freak out about the physics/radiobiology boards right now and finding a job in 18 months then out of nowhere in f’in January being told that he is being kicked out of residency at the end of June through no fault of his own!?!).

Somebody please help these guys out!

 

[thecarbonionangle]

I remember when i interviewed there. Not surprised. Multiple advisors warned me against it. Sad that people need to find something. Will you be able to take your funding to another department so they can take you? Hope it works out. Best of luck.

 

[Neuronix]

Wait so multiple older attendings just decided in January that they would all retire in June?

Yeah sounds like the department disintegrated for whatever reasons. Too bad for the residents though.

 

[deleted947887]

I suggest you wait until after the match. You'll have plenty of options.

 

[deleted18755]

I suggest you wait until after the match. You'll have plenty of options.

Are match spots per program per year or just per program as a whole?

In other words does program x get y residents per year or just z residents total (so if a program doesn’t match a PGY-2 this year do they have to scramble a PGY-2 or can they take any one of these residents?).

I bet some crappy residency director in a bottom tier department that couldn’t match a PGY-2 would be happy to take the PGY-5 so the chair could work him like a junior attending at resident pay vs scrambling a random PGY-2 who couldn’t match.

 

[seper]

Is it effective at the end of calendar year and not academic year? If so, this is particularly cruel.

 

[medgator]

Is it effective at the end of calendar year and not academic year? If so, this is particularly cruel.

Per the OP the program will remain open and accredited through June (i.e end of this academic year)

 

[nkmiami]

When I was in training a residency closed, and the residents were picked up by nearby programs. I was under the impression that they could transfer their funding with them, so there was somewhat of an incentive to take them.

 

[medgator]

When I was in training a residency closed, and the residents were picked up by nearby programs. I was under the impression that they could transfer their funding with them, so there was somewhat of an incentive to take them.

I've heard the same thing, assuming they aren't doing a second residency or something (acgme only funds one I've heard)

 

[fiji128]

Funding follows the residents from the federal government. If you sign up for Rad Onc you will get five years of funding to complete the residency (IM is 3 years and Neurosurgery is 7 years of funding ect..). It doesn't matter what physical location you do training but once you have used your five years of funding its gone. For example if you did 3 years of residency with PGY 1 in prelim IM and PGY 2 and 3 in rad onc and then decide to switch back to IM you will need to find independent funding as you have already used up federally allotted PGY 2 and PGY 3 funding.

When I've seen this residency closing issue before it seems that local programs typically will take on the residents and programs can more easily get a temporary expansion through the RCC to accommodate a resident in this situation if they are willing to do the paper work.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Not all residents are paid for through Medicare funding I thought. I thought some places foot the bill themselves for their residents, as that's how all these programs are expanding (not through additional Medicare money which is minimal, but through departmental funds). I think this is especially more common in specialist residencies, given the push to shift Medicare-funded positions to more primary care residencies.

My concern is that if there isn't Medicare funding then the departmental funding may stay in the department so to speak. Hope all the orphaned residents can find new homes (ideally ones in SF - how excited will UCSF and Stanford be to have even more residents)

 

[deleted18755]

Funding follows the residents from the federal government. If you sign up for Rad Onc you will get five years of funding to complete the residency (IM is 3 years and Neurosurgery is 7 years of funding ect..). It doesn't matter what physical location you do training but once you have used your five years of funding its gone. For example if you did 3 years of residency with PGY 1 in prelim IM and PGY 2 and 3 in rad onc and then decide to switch back to IM you will need to find independent funding as you have already used up federally allotted PGY 2 and PGY 3 funding.

When I've seen this residency closing issue before it seems that local programs typically will take on the residents and programs can more easily get a temporary expansion through the RCC to accommodate a resident in this situation if they are willing to do the paper work.

I really hope a local program steps up. Can’t imagine the baseline stress of being a resident plus the boards fiasco and jobs outlook then out of nowhere residency shutdown and scramble (plus I’m sure many of these residents have significant others and/or kids who had every reason to believe that they would be living in town until the end of PGY-5 year and now scrambling too).

 

[CPMC Radiation Oncology]

Hi Everyone,

I am the PGY-4 and greatly appreciate the sympathy and support that is emerging from this community. I am here to support and advocate for my junior residents who are victims in this whole debacle. Nima, Sam, and Will are incredibly bright, loyal, self motivated, and (most importantly to me) fun to be around. We have supported each other through thick and thin and I could not imagine a better group of guys to go through this stressful time with. My daughter calls them "uncles" and they are family to me. We are a very tight-knit group but we all understand that staying together may not be realistic. Oldking is right in that this is a very stressful time for all of us: One of us has kids, two of us have bought (small) homes here, two of us are married, and we each feel very rooted in San Francisco through family and friends.

In my opinion we are good residents. We come from good medical schools (Duke, UC Davis, UCSF, Wake Forest), our average Step 1 is 255 (range 250-262), average number of full journal publications/book chapters is 13 (range 4-26), average ACR in-service percentile for the clinical portion is 91st (range 84-97th), and each of us has unique experiences such as patent ownership, web and app development, and leadership positions.

To answer the issue about funding, it is a little confusing but here is what we understand: we are currently funded through Medicare and if a hospital has open "Medicare Cap Slots" the new hospital can use us to fill those slots and get an additional funds from Medicare. The leadership at our institution will not temporarily transfer any cap slots. From the ACGME side, the ACGME has said that they will immediately allow for a temporary expansion of accredited residency positions for us, and there is some hint that they look very favorably upon on institutions who take in displaced residents when they are later applying for expansion. We are NOT competing with current applicants and hope that our entry to any of your programs will only make existing residents' call schedules (and double coverage) easier.

We are so grateful for all the positive responses from program directors and fellow residents thus-far. We appreciate more than ever how close this community is and hope that one day we can pay forward the kindness.

 

[nkmiami]

"In my opinion we are good residents. We come from good medical schools (Duke, UC Davis, UCSF, Wake Forest), our average Step 1 is 256 (range 250-262), average number of full journal publications/book chapters is 13 (range 4-26), average ACR in-service percentile for the clinical portion is 91st (range 84-97th), and each of us has unique experiences such as patent ownership, web and app development, and leadership positions."

kind of make me feel inadequate -I would never have made it into this field today.. until maybe this year.

 

[Radiator20]

Guys, just want to say:
1) What’s happened to you is terrible and I genuinely feel for you. I wish I were in a position to help directly.
2) I am so impressed by the way you all are reacting to this situation: proactive, 100% professional, and you clearly have each other’s backs. I hope those who are in a position to help will take note. If this is how you are in terrible circumstances, I can only imagine how great you’d be to have as residents in normal circumstances.

 

[medgator]

KO with the "deets"?

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

KO with the "deets"?

I saw this and was super curious as well - I doubt he'll share it publicly though maybe we can dig them up as time goes on.

I know questionable programs exist for all specialties, but RadOnc is unique for the high caliber residents stuck in low caliber programs. Well, it used to be the case. Now the metric is "does your heart rate generally run between 60-80 beats per minute"?

 

[RickyScott]

All the patents and research of cpmc residents would have placed them at Harvard when I applied.

 

[Neuronix]

It was basically all of the best and brightest medical students taking rad onc positions in top tier locations a decade ago.

Now that CPMC closed, now we can all say "they should have never had a program." Ok, so what was said publicly about CPMC in 2010 when CPMC shouldn't have existed? Nothing.

So let's take that a step forward to take action. What programs exist NOW in 2020 that really shouldn't? Because we all know there are several. Let's point them out instead of just saying "well in hindsight" whenever one closes.

And what residency program training requirements are specifically being changed to prevent bad programs from opening, expanding, or continuing to exist? For all the discussion about this issue of increasing training requirements for years now, every time a change in requirements is proposed it ends up being so weak and/or diluted that I don't think anything is actually being done.

 

[RickyScott]

Yeah people would practically kill for a rad onc residency in a good location a decade ago. It was basically all of the best and bright medical students taking those sorts of positions.

Now that CPMC closed, now we can all say "they should have never had a program." Ok, so what was KO saying publicly in 2010 when CPMC shouldn't have existed? Great KO, what programs exist in 2020 that really shouldn't? Because we all know there are several.

And what residency program training requirements are specifically being significantly changed to prevent this from being changed? For all the discussion about this issue for years now, every change in requirements has been so weak and diluted down that I don't think that's done anything.

Mayo Phoenix and Jacksonville?

 

[Haybrant]

Mayo Phoenix and Jacksonville?

mayo Phoenix has residents? How many?

 

[medgator]

Mayo Phoenix and Jacksonville?

mayo Phoenix has residents? How many?

Scottsdale was the most recent McMayo residency to open iirc.

Could close some of the ny progs while we are it... Columbia, NY Methodist and LIJ

 

[CptCrunch]

mayo Phoenix has residents? How many?

Opened 2013, 4 spots.

 

[RickyScott]

Opened 2013, 4 spots.

ko is a real hypocriste

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

ko is a real hypocriste

Is he a hypocrite? He seems to be true to his recent tweet that we shouldn't worry about, or even talk about, doctor's lives.

 

[Haybrant]

Opened 2013, 4 spots.

wtf for reals? Mayo Phoenix has 4 residency spots? thats amazing,I’m guessing they are doing all physics and bio learning remotely to the main center, that’s the kind of thing that needs to go