Crazy...

[Ollie123]

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Know we're not supposed to cross-post but a lot of folks here don't read the psychiatry board and this gem was too good to pass up.

http://feministing.com/archives/007355.html

If this woman was truly interested in addressing sexism in this country, I'd have to recommend not walking around radiating ignorance. Why do some feminists think trumpeting their idiocy will somehow empower women? I think an empowered woman would know how to use google....

There are some questionable things regarding the handling of this case (most notably the fact that a spanish-speaking therapist was not provided beyond a few weeks). Their view of ECT is hilarious though, the extent of their knowledge clearly does not extend beyond what's up in theaters right now. I'm not even going to bother pointing out all the things wrong with their argument, they do a fine job of that themselves.

This actually made my day. I started laughing when I read it and I'm getting weird looks in the office.

 

[TherapistDave]

Wow, the hilarity ensues. I think you said it perfectly: ignorance.

This kind of literature is nothing more than hate-mongering, against a few groups, I might add.

Well, I have to go perform ECT on some unsuspecting ladies...

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I knew exactly what thread you were talking about after the first sentence.



-t

 

[Ollie123]

In case this interests anyone other than me:

I actually went to their blog and played semi-nice to try and find out what (if any) sources they had.

Its really a very interesting dynamic and a group of people I haven't been exposed to at all. One woman was AGGRESSIVE in her assertion that bad outcomes are more important than good outcomes, case studies are more meaningful than empirical work, to name a few. I've hung out with academics so much that I forgot that much of the world seems to believe that the best way to convince others they are right is by being loud and angry instead of objective and thorough.


I haven't read the sources yet (though I intend to) but given Breggin is a prominent figure in them, I hold little hope. Don't mention you don't trust his work for not being empirical though. Its a sin. Oh, they also quote various papers from the 60's and 70's when asked for empirical work proving their point.

Also, I asked why it was Breggin couldn't back himself up with numbers. Their response is that "insulin shock" doctors backed themselves up with numbers. A few seem close, but the OP can't quite seem to wrap her brain around the idea that other people doing BAD studies isn't an excuse to NOT do studies. I still haven't gotten an answer for why Breggin can't do something empirical to prove his point, they just keep referring me back to past abuses in the medical system and telling me I need to read up on how doctors have abused and controlled women. True. Irrelevant.

In conclusion....they're generally pretty unintelligent individuals (duh). I don't know if the OP has an actual doctorate or just calls herself one online, but I'm terrified of the idea that ANY program out there would graduate someone who believes that angry yelling = coherent argument and that its perfectly reasonable to ignore all premise of examining methodology and selectively cite work to fit a radical viewpoint. I picture someone screaming "BECAUSE I SAID SO, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT ITS LIKE" during their dissertation defense.

Was fun to get exposed to a completely different side of humanity though. I can't remember the last time I spoke to someone like that.

 

[Quynh2007]

sorry, my brains a little fried on this....(been watching ESPN and following Vick's indictment)....not really following what you want us to discuss in this thread? That ECT is good/non-damaging or that the views of it are rather skewed and further proves the average person has no idea what's going on in psych lol

 

[Ollie123]

Have you read any of my other posts? When have I ever had a point? 😉 Basically, people are free to take this thread in any direction they want.

Well, originally it was just a pointer to something that I found kind of entertaining in that it provides such a radically different viewpoint than I'm sure most people here have. Whether or not people agree with ECT, I imagine people here have vastly different reasons for disagreeing than those folks. I'm guessing "Breggin says so" isn't a phrase that gets common use on this board.

My followup post was just to point out the very interesting cultural differences among scientist vs. non-scientist folks. Its possible everyone else here just thinks of these people as the wackos waving signs on street corners and ignores them, but I figured I'd throw this out there in case anyone besides me finds that sort of thing interesting. I'm intrigued by a few different aspects. Namely:
1) The radical feminist views while portraying strictly anti-women stereotypes (namely the absurd notion that women don't/can't understand science). One would think a true feminist would be trying to break the stereotype, not furthering it.
2)The idea that there are people who would ignore a treatment outcome study, but an online "So and so worked for me!" is all they need to jump right in.
3)As you mentioned, general misconceptions on ECT and psychology in general.

Basically, post whatever you feel like. If you do think ECT is a tool of oppression, and I'm an ass for thinking those folks are insane, feel free to tell me that as well🙂

If no one else cares, it wouldn't be the first time I've babbled on about nothing and this thread can slowly work its way off the board.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I think, when used appropriately, ECT can not only be quite effective, but can make a world of difference for the pt. I saw appropriately because I think it should be used after most everything else failed, but from some of the reports/research I've read....it can be effective.

-t

 

[psych00]

I think it would be funny to see how embarassed this person will be whenever she figures out what current ECT involves.

and also, if she realizes that maybe it affects more women than men because the diagnosis or treatment of depression is more common in women?

 

[Ollie123]

Actually, that was brought up.

Apparently the reason women are diagnosed with depression more is because male doctors think all women are "hysterical" (there's a word I don't think has been used in the field in oh, 30 years or so) and we feel the need to keep women in line by punishing them with electroshock when they do things like step out of the kitchen or try to have careers. It doesn't have anything to do with genetics or the societal pressures on women, its just the male hierarchy trying to keep women down.

Who knew?

😉

 

[RayneeDeigh]

Wait, so you mean that women aren't hysterical because the uterus travels around the body causing havoc? Was I asleep while this theory was debunked?

 

[Quynh2007]

Wait, so you mean that women aren't hysterical because the uterus travels around the body causing havoc? Was I asleep while this theory was debunked?

no kidding, and the cure for hysteric was to get her pregnant or a clitorectomy (sp?)