Criminal record and Ph.D programs
Started by Joepa69
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I think I've managed to maintain relatively neutral in this thread despite my personal views (mostly by only contributing to tangential topics🙂 ), but in response to psychanon I do want to point out that this board is a vastly different setting than a therapy room🙂 I know you are aware of this as well as I am, but I don't necessarily think those who have been...assertive....in their beliefs wouldn't prove empathetic in a true therapeutic setting.
Its entirely possible to find certain actions appalling and still be willing to help that person overcome their difficulties. I agree its important not to show shock and disgust at someone's actions, but I think people are perhaps being more free with their own views on this board than they would in a professional setting.
Though keep in mind this is somewhat that finds cigarette smoke disgusting, and has ended relationships because I can't date someone who smokes, but is now going into tobacco research🙂
I'll step back again now, I just wanted to throw that out there for discussion since your post almost sounds as though you are saying psychologists are not allowed to have personal views on what they consider morally reprehensible. I disagree (though as you said, I do lack experience at this point), I just think its important for psychologists to be able to be professional and not allow their personal views to affect an otherwise objective diagnosis/treatment.
Its entirely possible to find certain actions appalling and still be willing to help that person overcome their difficulties. I agree its important not to show shock and disgust at someone's actions, but I think people are perhaps being more free with their own views on this board than they would in a professional setting.
Though keep in mind this is somewhat that finds cigarette smoke disgusting, and has ended relationships because I can't date someone who smokes, but is now going into tobacco research🙂
I'll step back again now, I just wanted to throw that out there for discussion since your post almost sounds as though you are saying psychologists are not allowed to have personal views on what they consider morally reprehensible. I disagree (though as you said, I do lack experience at this point), I just think its important for psychologists to be able to be professional and not allow their personal views to affect an otherwise objective diagnosis/treatment.
Psychanon,
Don't worry I am not mad but just wanted to clarify. 🙂 See I am smiling! 🙂 Really!
I do not think I made any jumps in logic. I think you just misread or misinterpreted what I wrote as well as what others wrote.
1. Joepa69 is not just "everyone who ever gets a DUI". He is a repeat offender who, as he admits, is facing legal consequences for what he did. So he is beyond the one time it happened/accidents happen stage.
2. Graduate school in psychology makes no pretense of teaching logic. Social scientific methodology yes, but formal logic no. How can you say this? Show me a major psychology department in the U.S. which has formal logic as a requisite course. If you can, we can all go and watch Bertrand Russell and Alfred North Whitehead jumping up out of their graves in excitement! (Maybe, Russell still has T.S. Elliot's wife with him!) As matter of fact, I think I will now follow the lead of the great logician/ philosopher W.V. Quine who when asked if he missed having a question mark on his typewriter (he had to modify it to fit various symbols he needed) replied: "no, I only deal in certainties!".🙂 ????? oh, I can't do it. It reminds me of Batman's enemy the Riddler!
(POW!! BAM!! BOP!!! - Adam West sure knew how to stage a fight)3. As I stated in my first post and again to Joepa69, I was really speaking of people with criminal records in general since the research, not my drawn conclusions, shows a high percentage of criminals (from various research, I saw 65% all the way up to 85% of criminals have APD and there is a positive correlation between substance abuse and APD. And yes, I did already admit that that not everyone with a DUI conviction has a substance abuse problem. Although, I would hypothesize that the as criminal convictions increase for a person so do the chances that they have APD). So I disagree with your statement: "research clearly shows that only a teeny tiny percentage of those who commit crimes are sociopaths.", especially since "sociopath" is a non-recognized term in the mainstream (see my next point). I can guess at a meaning but then I would have to make deductive jumps.
4. Your post, as well as many of the other posts, reveal the problem I was addressing in my post of nomenclature. For you and Joepa69 to be using the terms "Psychopath" and "sociopath" not only clouds the issue but makes use of archaic terminology which the DSM and ICD are fighting against. I pointed out this problem in my post. Courses in modern diagnosis are in fact a requisite in any clinical psychology department that is APA approved. None of you would use the terms neurosis or hysteria (well maybe for diagnosing RayneeDeigh
but not for anyone else). All of these terms are now subsumed under other headings. Although I did point out that some people feel the larger modern diagnoses need to be divided more to make better distinction. Ah not since the days of Lavoisier had there been a need for someone to work on nomenclature!5. I do agree with you that people on SDN should strive to empathize with others. I think people in this case just were worried about Joepa69 and thought some rebuke might prevent him from turning into an unwanted statistic.
6. I am happy to know that Joepa69 drink good beer. If I ever meet him I will be happy to buy him a round (as well as any other SDNer's who want to joing in - assuming they are of age - one of you was waiting to catch me on that
) and refrain from drinking to be his designated driver! How awful that sounds! Joepa69, I prefer to buy you your beer in a city with public transportation so I can drink too.Again, I am still smiling 🙂 but just clarifying things.
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Yes I have already accepted a spot and am going to be a first year clinical psyc grad student beginning in August. I already have my Master's in clinical as well.
"I am happy to know that Joepa69 drink good beer. If I ever meet him I will be happy to buy him a round (as well as any other SDNer's who want to joing in - assuming they are of age - one of you was waiting to catch me on that) and refrain from drinking to be his designated driver! How awful that sounds! Joepa69, I prefer to buy you your beer in a city with public transportation so I can drink too."
You are a good man (or maybe woman...I can never tell by handles)! I would love to take you up on that offer. Where do you live? If you are ever down south, please get in touch with me and we'll get together
) and refrain from drinking to be his designated driver! How awful that sounds! Joepa69, I prefer to buy you your beer in a city with public transportation so I can drink too."You are a good man (or maybe woman...I can never tell by handles)! I would love to take you up on that offer. Where do you live? If you are ever down south, please get in touch with me and we'll get together
If a program doesn't ask, I don't think you're under any obligation, legal or moral, to tell them. Doing so could torpedo your chances at getting into a program (which you've apparently already done 🙄), and I agree that it's not necessarily related to your academic integrity.
But seriously - TWO DUIs? That's worrisome, as is your defensiveness about them and your reluctance to accept responsibility. If your BAC was high enough to be convicted, it was high enough that you shouldn't have been behind the wheel.
But seriously - TWO DUIs? That's worrisome, as is your defensiveness about them and your reluctance to accept responsibility. If your BAC was high enough to be convicted, it was high enough that you shouldn't have been behind the wheel.
"But seriously - TWO DUIs? That's worrisome, as is your defensiveness about them and your reluctance to accept responsibility. If your BAC was high enough to be convicted, it was high enough that you shouldn't have been behind the wheel."
I didn't blow, so it is a hard case to win. Also, I know it is pretty stupid to get two DUIs, but I am telling you both were extremely bad luck.
I didn't blow, so it is a hard case to win. Also, I know it is pretty stupid to get two DUIs, but I am telling you both were extremely bad luck.
I'd just like to point out that I never said anyone was a monster. My first post was telling the OP that he should be in treatment and doing volunteer work to balance out his mistakes. It wasn't until I heard the equivalent of "that's horrible advice, you're all stupid" that I decided he wasn't taking responsibility for his actions.
I also find it interesting that his first post was asking whether this will affect his application, and then out of the blue he's suddenly accepted somewhere.
Do people make mistakes? Absolutely, and I'd never hold that against someone. What I do hold against them is when they refuse to take responsibility and make an act of retribution for their mistakes.
Lastly, someone on here said that we were pretentious for one-upping each other. I just want to say that I don't think that's at ALL what's going on, but if I'm pretentious for not wanting to endanger other lives then so be it.
I'm sure the OP is a very nice person, but in this thread he's been offensive and inflammatory. Though I'm willing to bet these are situational rather than personal traits, that doesn't mean we can't respond to them without calling into question our ability to empathize with clients.
I also find it interesting that his first post was asking whether this will affect his application, and then out of the blue he's suddenly accepted somewhere.
Do people make mistakes? Absolutely, and I'd never hold that against someone. What I do hold against them is when they refuse to take responsibility and make an act of retribution for their mistakes.
Lastly, someone on here said that we were pretentious for one-upping each other. I just want to say that I don't think that's at ALL what's going on, but if I'm pretentious for not wanting to endanger other lives then so be it.
I'm sure the OP is a very nice person, but in this thread he's been offensive and inflammatory. Though I'm willing to bet these are situational rather than personal traits, that doesn't mean we can't respond to them without calling into question our ability to empathize with clients.
Funny, one of the first things I learned while being trained was that it's entirely possible to accept someone as a person while thinking and saying that their behaviour is abhorrent, gross, or whatever. To try to do otherwise is inviting disingenuous.
Please keep this thread on topic. The discussion is about how a criminal record may or may not effect your PhD chances, as well as later in life career implications. This thread is NOT about judging others, personal issues, or personal pot shots back and forth. Please try and keep it professional. If it can't stay on topic and professional, I'll have to close the topic.
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I'm not really getting into this one...but I thought I'd point out a few things.
1. It really depends on where you live to understand what kind of sticky situation you might be in, like the OP. My brother went to school in a small town where all college kids do is party. They also happen to have a police academy across the street from the university. As a result, the town is super-saturated with police officers looking for kids in trouble. You could ask anyone who lived in this town (or one like it) how many people they knew who got a DUI for moving a car in a driveway or falling asleep in a parked car while intoxicated...and they'd easily say 3-5 within recent memory (and perhaps a few people who'd gotten them twice!). It sounds ridiculous, but in a town where the cops are everywhere looking for everything all the time, young people are bound to be caught more often. I went to school in San Francisco where traffic cops are few and far between, and you'd be hard pressed to meet college kids who'd ever been at a party where they busted people for drinking underage or any of that. Usually the cops would come by and tell you turn your music down. I never knew ANYONE in San Francisco who got a DUI, and many fewer people drive there in general. Sometimes it just depends on where you live.
2. Background check are expensive, yo. The whole reason most businesses/insitutions don't follow through with them is because they are ridiculously expensive to have done. Even things like schools districts sometimes will run the cheapest background checks on staff members because they try to save money and then find out years later that their employees have molestation, assualt, or drug charges on their records because the checks are so shallow.
Not everything is so pious and clear cut.
1. It really depends on where you live to understand what kind of sticky situation you might be in, like the OP. My brother went to school in a small town where all college kids do is party. They also happen to have a police academy across the street from the university. As a result, the town is super-saturated with police officers looking for kids in trouble. You could ask anyone who lived in this town (or one like it) how many people they knew who got a DUI for moving a car in a driveway or falling asleep in a parked car while intoxicated...and they'd easily say 3-5 within recent memory (and perhaps a few people who'd gotten them twice!). It sounds ridiculous, but in a town where the cops are everywhere looking for everything all the time, young people are bound to be caught more often. I went to school in San Francisco where traffic cops are few and far between, and you'd be hard pressed to meet college kids who'd ever been at a party where they busted people for drinking underage or any of that. Usually the cops would come by and tell you turn your music down. I never knew ANYONE in San Francisco who got a DUI, and many fewer people drive there in general. Sometimes it just depends on where you live.
2. Background check are expensive, yo. The whole reason most businesses/insitutions don't follow through with them is because they are ridiculously expensive to have done. Even things like schools districts sometimes will run the cheapest background checks on staff members because they try to save money and then find out years later that their employees have molestation, assualt, or drug charges on their records because the checks are so shallow.
Not everything is so pious and clear cut.
Haha, that sounds like San Luis Obispo. I know a few people who went there who were always complaining that the cops just sat around waiting for the college kids to jaywalk or something.
Your #2 is a good point, though I find it kind of disappointing that background checks don't happen often. I'm used to Canada where cops are pretty few and far between and background checks actually DO happen.
So in light of this info, I'd have to respond to the ORIGINAL question with: no, you probably will never have to deal with the ramifications of your DUIs.
Not that it matters since he's accepted to a program now.
Speaking of criminal records (to keep semi- on-topic) . . .
If one has a juvenile record that has been "sealed", not expunged. Is one required to report this at any point? May seem like a no-brainer but the military/NSA background check I had several years back required it. Anyone know about other sites/locations/institutions that can pull these records as well?
Signed,
A juvenile deviant who was diagnosed with a PD -- hmm, does this mean I need to turn down my acceptance, GiantSteps?
Just wondering 😉
If one has a juvenile record that has been "sealed", not expunged. Is one required to report this at any point? May seem like a no-brainer but the military/NSA background check I had several years back required it. Anyone know about other sites/locations/institutions that can pull these records as well?
Signed,
A juvenile deviant who was diagnosed with a PD -- hmm, does this mean I need to turn down my acceptance, GiantSteps?
Just wondering 😉
Actually, I find the whole "don't worry about background checks" sort of disconcerting, and unfortunately I hear it all the time. Perhaps it's just the places I've worked for but the majority of my positions have all conducted background checks as well as credit checks. Yeah, there are going to be places that skimp out or don't follow through, but why take the chance?
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Don't worry Therapist4Chnge, this will keep things moving in a cordial manner but I do have to comment on the following to do so.
OH NO!🙁 Sweetwater 420 only has a rating of 3.36! You should have gone for the Sweetwater Happy Jack Imperial Stout 3.91! Based on the numbers your DUI was not worth it.
By the way, regarding the Paris Hilton case, now that celebrities are not getting away with their drinking and driving (Paris, Billy Joel, Mel Gibson, etc., etc.), think how much harder it will be for regular people like all of us to do the same. I think this is actually good since too many people take this crime too lightly.
Government jobs must obviously be more strict about background checks. This is an important point since a criminal record may very well prevent one from taking a psychology position with the government, military, police, or schools. So this could really hurt the career of a psychologist since so many are employed in these sectors.
And here is a new one, what if your (I mean any psychologist's) criminal record stood in the way of his/ her getting grants! Why not? Most are from the government. This would kill you as a researcher.
Someone is at least reading my post which tried to discuss the link between being a criminal and having a mental illness (most likely antisocial personality disorder). How can everyone ignore this? Paramour admits to being a case in point. Although she seems not to agree with her diagnosis.
No Paramour, do not turn down your acceptance. However, years from now after you finish your training, I think you should not practice any form of psychology to insure the safety of the public. Instead, I will help you get a job in one of RayneeDeigh's sock puppet productions of Shakespeare.
Probably an employment lawyer should be consulted on your sealed vs. expiunged record question. Has anyone mentioned this yet of consulting an employment lawyer? Where is Colorado Cutter - the lawyer who is trying to leave law to be a psychologist?
I am in fact a man. Sorry, I know every guy dreams of meeting a beautiful SDN girl (they are all models right?). Also, I am straight which could disappoint you too - "not that there is any thing wrong with that." I missed a chance to buy you a beer when I was down south. I was trying to find people who knew of good beer there but everyone I asked was oblivious to the southern beer production. You could have been helpful.
Another point (or question): some of you mentioned professors who admitted to having DUI's. Why were they so nonchalant about it? I would answer that the mind of a mentally ill criminal is intriguing. Even a mentally ill criminal who is a trained psychologist loses any ability of introspection / self-monitoring when confronted with his/ her own probelms.
Finally, months ago when people were mentioning their visits to schools and the accompanying festivities I heard people mention alcohol being served. I wonder, in retrospect, if this set things off on the wrong foot and perhaps put people in danger depending on who was driving. Is this a double message: if you have a criminal conviction of a DUI you may put your application in jeopardy but our professors and graduate students will chauffeur you around town after a few welcoming drinks. Complete contradiction!
I hope I raised some new general points (even though I had to respond to Paramour's and Joepa69's personal remarks).🙂
OH NO!🙁 Sweetwater 420 only has a rating of 3.36! You should have gone for the Sweetwater Happy Jack Imperial Stout 3.91! Based on the numbers your DUI was not worth it.
By the way, regarding the Paris Hilton case, now that celebrities are not getting away with their drinking and driving (Paris, Billy Joel, Mel Gibson, etc., etc.), think how much harder it will be for regular people like all of us to do the same. I think this is actually good since too many people take this crime too lightly.
Government jobs must obviously be more strict about background checks. This is an important point since a criminal record may very well prevent one from taking a psychology position with the government, military, police, or schools. So this could really hurt the career of a psychologist since so many are employed in these sectors.
And here is a new one, what if your (I mean any psychologist's) criminal record stood in the way of his/ her getting grants! Why not? Most are from the government. This would kill you as a researcher.
Someone is at least reading my post which tried to discuss the link between being a criminal and having a mental illness (most likely antisocial personality disorder). How can everyone ignore this? Paramour admits to being a case in point. Although she seems not to agree with her diagnosis.
No Paramour, do not turn down your acceptance. However, years from now after you finish your training, I think you should not practice any form of psychology to insure the safety of the public. Instead, I will help you get a job in one of RayneeDeigh's sock puppet productions of Shakespeare.
Probably an employment lawyer should be consulted on your sealed vs. expiunged record question. Has anyone mentioned this yet of consulting an employment lawyer? Where is Colorado Cutter - the lawyer who is trying to leave law to be a psychologist?
I am in fact a man. Sorry, I know every guy dreams of meeting a beautiful SDN girl (they are all models right?). Also, I am straight which could disappoint you too - "not that there is any thing wrong with that." I missed a chance to buy you a beer when I was down south. I was trying to find people who knew of good beer there but everyone I asked was oblivious to the southern beer production. You could have been helpful.
Another point (or question): some of you mentioned professors who admitted to having DUI's. Why were they so nonchalant about it? I would answer that the mind of a mentally ill criminal is intriguing. Even a mentally ill criminal who is a trained psychologist loses any ability of introspection / self-monitoring when confronted with his/ her own probelms.
Finally, months ago when people were mentioning their visits to schools and the accompanying festivities I heard people mention alcohol being served. I wonder, in retrospect, if this set things off on the wrong foot and perhaps put people in danger depending on who was driving. Is this a double message: if you have a criminal conviction of a DUI you may put your application in jeopardy but our professors and graduate students will chauffeur you around town after a few welcoming drinks. Complete contradiction!
I hope I raised some new general points (even though I had to respond to Paramour's and Joepa69's personal remarks).🙂
Please close it!!!
Seconded.
Okay, well it looks like the children are trying to play nicely again.
Just to put my $.02 in, my response to your direct question is that no, I don't think it will affect your chances of getting in. Like others, I am curious why you are asking this question if you are already accepted, and you haven't answered that question...
I would not disclose this information voluntarily. We all make mistakes, and this was obviously one for you. Regardless of the circumstances (i.e., just moving a friend's car) you shouldn't have been behind the wheel after drinking anything. Something must have drawn the police officer over to you, so I have to wonder what that was.
I think Irish said that he was asked about DUIs or arrests or something at interviews. I never was. I applied to 11 schools and had 4 interviews. I was never asked about DUIs on applications, nor was I asked about them or any other criminal activity during interviews. Some of the applications asked about felony convictions, but it sounds like a 2nd DUI is not a felony.
You said that you'd been accepted into a program and would start in the fall. You might bear in mind that even though you have about 5 years to internship, you will probably start a practicum next summer or fall, and they might check your record as well.
You can add me to the bandwagon of never having driven when I've been drinking. I think you lose your bet.
In at least two places I've trained at had very thorough background checks (references, finger printing, etc) I'm not sure what a DUI would mean at those settings, but I'm guessing it would not bode well, though it depends on where you want to train/work. Thankfully it isn't a violent offense (which would REALLY be a problem).
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I'm working at a counseling clinic now and all new employees have to be fingerprinted - even administrative staff. Contracts are contingent upon the fingerprinting results. However, if something not serious (i.e. not sex offending) showed up on the report, then it's up to the discretion of the hiring manager to determine if they want to offer the contract.
I think the fingerprinting thing varies by state? I'm not sure....
I think the fingerprinting thing varies by state? I'm not sure....
That's weird. I applied to 13 schools and every single one had that checkbox next to the question "have you ever been convicted of a felony/crime?" (or some variant thereof) along with a little box to write in if you checked "yes."
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If you ever want to go through some background hell....apply for a job that req. Top Secret clearance. I had some defense contractors and gov't agencies trying to recruit me awhile back. The background check was a beast (10-12+ months), thankfully they weren't really jobs I would consider.
-t
Okay, I'm a 5th year, about to graduate... and yes, you've received some VERY bad advice here... BUT, also some good advice.
No, I would definately not tell unless asked. But, on the same hand, I would definately not lie either. There is a good chance that your clinical work will require backround checks - and in my experience, they probably will check (but you can guage that risk).
I would advise that once you do get in, to be very selective of who you do tell. It's important throughout clinical training to be very aware of your own "issues" and this may be one for you (or it may not). If you do find it coming up in your own mind, I would really hope that you can talk to a trusted supervisor/advisor/therapist about it. At least a therapist is legally bound to protect your confidentiality...
But, this comment raised a red flag for me. Yes, I've driven intoxicate, and been DAMNED LUCKY to not get caught!!! But, blaming the DUI's on bad luck is really not owning up to your responsibility in it. YOU made the decision to get behind the wheel, even if it was for 3 feet - and you had a choice. Unfortunately, it was a bad one. I worry how you will change your behavior, own up to your life choices, and help others do the same.
I don't think this kind of denial is useful (and I've been there). From what it sounds like, you're doing the right thing in not drinking and seeking the help you may need. This sounds like a good start.
And I should add, it does sound like you'll do well in this field... 🙂
I cannot stress this enough. I know WAAAAAAY more about a couple of people in my class, and I don't mean that in a good way. It is important to acknowledge your issues, and understand how they effect your clinical work. That being said, don't air your dirty laundry publicly because it WILL come back to bite you, whether it is as obvious as not getting a position, or as subtle as people gossiping.
Technically not legally bound, though ethically bound.
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Apologies if this sounds moralizing or as if I was homeschooled or religious, but well I can understand why someone would want to not tell people about the DUIs if he/she could avoid it, I'm unable to understand why someone would want to. That, coupled with my experience that every single school I applied to asked if I'd ever been convicted of anything, was the basis for my initial comment. If you can get under the radar, go nuts. I don't get why someone would try, though.
Since the op was evidently lucky enough to now be accepted to a program, I suppose I should be phrasing things in the hypothetical:
If *one's* application requires *one* to divulge a criminal record, *one* should contact the POI and admissions person. They'll see the application, and they'll see the offense. It's going to stand out--not many people have one, and not many of those who do have one more serious than pot possession. Not e-mailing them to talk about it is simply going to waste some proportion of *one's* applications, specifically the ones that are simply thrown out by a selection committee if they have a problem with the criminal record. Not contacting them is a huge waste of time, money, and a potential school choice.
Since the op was evidently lucky enough to now be accepted to a program, I suppose I should be phrasing things in the hypothetical:
If *one's* application requires *one* to divulge a criminal record, *one* should contact the POI and admissions person. They'll see the application, and they'll see the offense. It's going to stand out--not many people have one, and not many of those who do have one more serious than pot possession. Not e-mailing them to talk about it is simply going to waste some proportion of *one's* applications, specifically the ones that are simply thrown out by a selection committee if they have a problem with the criminal record. Not contacting them is a huge waste of time, money, and a potential school choice.
"If *one's* application requires *one* to divulge a criminal record, *one* should contact the POI and admissions person. They'll see the application, and they'll see the offense. It's going to stand out--not many people have one, and not many of those who do have one more serious than pot possession. Not e-mailing them to talk about it is simply going to waste some proportion of *one's* applications, specifically the ones that are simply thrown out by a selection committee if they have a problem with the criminal record. Not contacting them is a huge waste of time, money, and a potential school choice."
Now that makes sense....
Now that makes sense....
If the application asks for the information, I would start by contacting someone in the admissions office and asking for the program's policy on the issue - they probably have one in place if the application asks specifically about a criminal record. Someone should be able to advise you on what to do from there.
The one thing I absolutely would not do is lie on your application. Schools send out notices about applicants who give false information. If even one school bothers to run a background check, the issue could change from a problem that can still be dealt with to something that could ruin your life.
The one thing I absolutely would not do is lie on your application. Schools send out notices about applicants who give false information. If even one school bothers to run a background check, the issue could change from a problem that can still be dealt with to something that could ruin your life.
I agree that checking with the admissions office is a good idea, but there's policy and then there's what actually happens in admissions.
If admissions says that there's to be no basing decisions on any criminal record short of assault, but the POI is 100% anti-dope and you have to report a pot charge, you have absolutely 0 chance of getting in. Conversely, if admissions says any criminal record will weigh heavily against you but your POI wants you and doesn't care about a criminal record, you'll get in.
If admissions says that there's to be no basing decisions on any criminal record short of assault, but the POI is 100% anti-dope and you have to report a pot charge, you have absolutely 0 chance of getting in. Conversely, if admissions says any criminal record will weigh heavily against you but your POI wants you and doesn't care about a criminal record, you'll get in.
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I think I would still start by just contacting the office - you wouldn't even have to give a name if it's over the phone. If their policy is to just throw your application in the trash (I have no idea if this would be legal or not), there's no point in even applying. Also, their reaction to the question should give you some idea of how big of a problem it will be (by the way, by "you", I don't mean you, JockNerd! I have no idea who we're talking about anymore).
I would also probably try to establish a relationship with a professor before launching into the entire story. I think you are right that coming clean with the professor before they see the crime listed on your app is a good idea, but I'd go through a few more steps first.
I would also probably try to establish a relationship with a professor before launching into the entire story. I think you are right that coming clean with the professor before they see the crime listed on your app is a good idea, but I'd go through a few more steps first.
I don't remember being asked about non-felony convictions on my app's but the reason behind not bringing up a DUI or any other negative is that your chances of getting in will drop. It doesn't make any sense to me to say "oh by the way...". You can't lie on your application but if you don't have to report the DUI why would you?
I don't think the DUI insinuates that the OP is a bad candidate or one who should be considered on separate grounds from the rest of the applicants. Let the prof's decide...they can sniff out the problem applicants.
If the department doesn't ask about non-felony convictions, then no, I wouldn't bring it up. It's not information they're interested in. Even if they just ask about a criminal record (not necessarily a felony), I would still probably consult with someone at the student career center or even a lawyer before I decided whether I was legally obligated to include the information.
However, if the information has to be included, I would much rather the professor hear about it from me first. If this thread demonstrates anything, it's that emotions run extremely high regarding this issue. I don't think we need to get into another arguement about whether judgement is warranted, but it seems pretty clear that judgement could occur.
I would just ask a lawyer; probably one who is familiar with educational types of issues.
Wondering how everything panned out over the years. What struggles/successes did you have?
As a grad student in psychology , here's my opinion , you made 2 mistakes , u definitely need to get into treatment and therapy , and after you have completed that , I think schools will let u in . However , there are extensive background checks for practicum and internship and yes a few places may hold it against u and deny u bc they can deny u based on anything they want . However , if u do not get arrested again u probably will wind up securing sites and be ok , I don't think you'll be denied licensure either . I don't think you'll get accepted anywhere though unless u enter treatment and do therapy . Just my opinion
What state are u in ? I'm curious what the legal repercussions of 2 DUIs are . Are they giving you jail time ? Good luck , and seriously please consider attending a few sessions of therapy , therapists are NOT judgmental and will only help u to process the anxiety you're feeling about grad school and this issue and any stigma attached to it , so it'll be a positive experience
Dude hasn't signed on in years. I don't think he'll be answering.
I really wonder how the OP is doing now... I'd have suggested that he not disclose unless asked because DUI is so serious and so incredibly preventable that if I had any say in admissions, the app would be tossed. Period. They can reapply when they've matured... a lot.
It'd have to be disclosed in APPIC apps for internship, and it'd be found in any VA and most AMC's as they do thorough background checks. One won't sink you, I've seen offers extended as long as the app is good and they've addressed it. Multiple ones though, that's different. Someone apparently doesn't learn that well from past mistakes.
Now that I've been on the other side of the selection process at multiple stages (practicum, internship, postdoc), I can see why some posters suggested that getting into grad school wouldn't be the only hurdle. I haven't seen situations where everyone with a criminal record of any kind was immediately rejected, but I have seen cases where one DUI was enough to move an anotherwise qualified applicant from "yes" pile to the "maybe" or "no" piles. Especially if that applicant did a poor job of addressing it in their application.
