Crisis counselor non clinical volunteering question

[Kalogada]

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Hi everyone,

I just have a small question. I have recentely found a great opportunity to work as a volunteer crisis counselor, for me I think it a great way to get to help individuals when they are at their breaking points and need some one to talk too. I also understand the current mental stigma in our society and know its impact.

With that all said, I am a pre med student and was wondering if this experience could be listed as non clinical volunteering. This experience is not in a traditional one on one format; rather it is based through text messages and instant messaging. This organization is quite emmense, requires dedicated amount of hours, is supervised, and background checks are required.

I would very much like to do this opportunity, and would like to know how medical schools would precieve this form of volunteering even if it is online. I will be still doing other traditional non clinical volunteering, but would like input on this situation first.

Thanks!

 

[Dox4lyfe]

Hi everyone,

I just have a small question. I have recentely found a great opportunity to work as a volunteer crisis counselor, for me I think it a great way to get to help individuals when they are at their breaking points and need some one to talk too. I also understand the current mental stigma in our society and know its impact.

With that all said, I am a pre med student and was wondering if this experience could be listed as non clinical volunteering. This experience is not in a traditional one on one format; rather it is based through text messages and instant messaging. This organization is quite emmense, requires dedicated amount of hours, is supervised, and background checks are required.

I would very much like to do this opportunity, and would like to know how medical schools would precieve this form of volunteering even if it is online. I will be still doing other traditional non clinical volunteering, but would like input on this situation first.

Thanks!

Yes you can.

 

[Catalystik]

I have recentely found a great opportunity to work as a volunteer crisis counselor, for me I think it a great way to get to help individuals when they are at their breaking points and need some one to talk too. I also understand the current mental stigma in our society and know its impact.

With that all said, I am a pre med student and was wondering if this experience could be listed as non clinical volunteering. This experience is not in a traditional one on one format; rather it is based through text messages and instant messaging. This organization is quite emmense, requires dedicated amount of hours, is supervised, and background checks are required.

I would very much like to do this opportunity, and would like to know how medical schools would precieve this form of volunteering even if it is online. I will be still doing other traditional non clinical volunteering, but would like input on this situation first.

Thanks!

Will you be able to legitimize the activity by providing the required Contact person and information (phone or email) who can validate the hours you claim?

 

[Kalogada]

Will you be able to legitimize the activity by providing the required Contact person and information (phone or email) who can validate the hours you claim?

Yes. They said they are able to submit a letter that authenticates the amount of hours(according to their FAQ). I am not sure if I can list the supervisor contacts or not, if that is what you mean. Regardless, I will send a email to them.

 

[Dox4lyfe]

Yes. They said they are able to submit a letter that authenticates the amount of hours(according to their FAQ). I am not sure if I can list the supervisor contacts or not, if that is what you mean. Regardless, I will send a email to them.

If you're talking about the same program that I know of, you should be able to list your training coach.

 

[Catalystik]

Yes. They said they are able to submit a letter that authenticates the amount of hours(according to their FAQ). I am not sure if I can list the supervisor contacts or not, if that is what you mean. Regardless, I will send a email to them.

Of course, you need not list the activity if it can't be legitimated, even though you elect to participate.

And I will add that many adcomms would prefer to see such an activity be in person-to-person, by skype, or at least, via telephone contact, feeling that this would demonstrate better an applicant's "people" skills.

 

[Kalogada]

Of course, you need not list the activity if it can't be legitimated, even though you elect to participate.

And I will add that many adcomms would prefer to see such an activity be in person-to-person, by skype, or at least, via telephone contact, feeling that this would demonstrate better an applicant's "people" skills.

This is what I was afriad of, that they would look poorly on the fact that it was not face to face

 

[863168]

Crisis counseling through untrained volunteer text messaging and instant messaging.

 

[Kalogada]

Crisis counseling through untrained volunteer text messaging and instant messaging.

There is extensive training involved, it's a 6 week training program. Did not feel like I had to list that, since I thought that would be obvious

 

[Donna Moss]

.

 

[Dox4lyfe]

Of course, you need not list the activity if it can't be legitimated, even though you elect to participate.

And I will add that many adcomms would prefer to see such an activity be in person-to-person, by skype, or at least, via telephone contact, feeling that this would demonstrate better an applicant's "people" skills.

I don't see this being an issue if "people skills" can be demonstrated through other activities.

 

[xxpremed22]

.

 

[Kalogada]

Recently became apart of Crisis Text Line. All volunteer hours are verifiable. The system tracks precisely how long you've been engaged in conversation, and this can be verified by your supervisor. Training is approximately 34 hours, which includes a variety of modules, quizzes, role-playing with your supervisor, on how to interact with people on the platform. I can answer any questions if need be.

Awesome to see others on board! So we can list our supervisor as a contact for amcas?

 

[xxpremed22]

Awesome to see others on board! So we can list our supervisor as a contact for amcas?

To my knowledge, yes! Your supervisor is your go to source for any questions both during and after training.

 

[Kalogada]

To my knowledge, yes! Your supervisor is your go to source for any questions both during and after training.

So far, do you find the program to be organized and well constructed?

 

[xxpremed22]

So far, do you find the program to be organized and well constructed?

Very well-constructed. There's always supervisors on the platform to help you out if you get stuck. In the training, they'll teach you how to communicate with texter, so it's not just typing whatever floats your boat All of these supervisors have master degree's or PHDs and know what they are talking about. You basically commit to a minimum of 200 hours a year. They're a very data driven organization. They track satisfaction ratings, wait times and all these statistics that help us better learn about the population of texters. If it means anything, I've probably learned more from this than just volunteering at my hospital (though I do see the value in hospital volunteering)

 

[Prometheus123]

Of course, you need not list the activity if it can't be legitimated, even though you elect to participate.

And I will add that many adcomms would prefer to see such an activity be in person-to-person, by skype, or at least, via telephone contact, feeling that this would demonstrate better an applicant's "people" skills.

I was really interested in this too but ultimately decided against it for this exact reason. You can't be a physician via text message.

 

[xxpremed22]

I was really interested in this too but ultimately decided against it for this exact reason. You can't be a physician via text message.

I will say that the whole texting interface is really intriguing, and I think that people tend to underestimate this. There are many groups of people who may not have the opportunity/funds to visit a counselor, or physically talk to a suicide hotline personal. The text messaging platform really taps into some unique demographics. Also, keep in mind that you never message texters on your phone. Everything done is through a secure computer interface. There's a specific way to structure conversations so that they're beneficial to the texter. That being said, of course it's important to have a balance of things on your medical school applications (hospital volunteering etc.)

 

[calivianya]

I was really interested in this too but ultimately decided against it for this exact reason. You can't be a physician via text message.

Sure you can! My provider does e-visits... I fill out a form and describe my symptoms, and she messages me back telling me I have a prescription to pick up. Worked wonders for the last UTI I had - I didn't have to have any phone or in-person interaction with her to get it taken care of.

E-visits are great for simple problems, and they are definitely a thing in some health systems now. Can't build a whole practice out of them, though...

 

[863168]

Crisis counseling, it's like the UTI I had last week.
Satisfaction ratings from crisis patients, it's like HCAHPS for patients with AMS.
Trained messenger volunteers, it's like the psychiatrist is talking to me... except from a tablet.
2017, it's like the 1800s when mental institutions were still in vogue.

Do you guys remember in The Metamorphosis when Gregor Samsa was going through an existential crisis because he got turned into an insect and he was admitted to the ED and was given a tablet in which a volunteer effectively made him find new meaning within his life?

Steve Jobs, it's like he's resolved existence pain.

 

[mistafab]

It isn't bad that it isn't face to face.

Lots of suicidal teens won't call or show up to a clinic, but will text if they need help. People knocking on it are the same people that would have said "computers? who needs em!"

Guess what, if you can't get with the times you will be left behind. I'd say crisis counseling over text is better than the "people skills" you develop by studying in a hospital closet or showing up for 1 hour to pick up trash at a park.

This is what I was afriad of, that they would look poorly on the fact that it was not face to face

I was really interested in this too but ultimately decided against it for this exact reason. You can't be a physician via text message.

Crisis counseling, it's like the UTI I had last week.
Satisfaction ratings from crisis patients, it's like HCAHPS for patients with AMS.
Trained messenger volunteers, it's like the psychiatrist is talking to me... except from a tablet.
2017, it's like the 1800s when mental institutions were still in vogue.

Do you guys remember in The Metamorphosis when Gregor Samsa was going through an existential crisis because he got turned into an insect and he was admitted to the ED and was given a tablet in which a volunteer effectively made him find new meaning within his life?

Steve Jobs, it's like he's resolved existence pain.

 

[Prometheus123]

It looks like the OP was asking about this as something to do in addition to their current non-clinical community service, and as an add-on, it sounds great. But if you're someone like me who only has enough time for one non-clinical volunteering activity, I'm concerned this alone may not cover all your bases, at least for some adcomms.

According to LizzyM, non-clinical community service is about service to those less fortunate than yourself. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe most med schools that really emphasize non-clinical community service serve a lot of folks who are poor (e.g. Wayne, Loyola). From reading between the lines, I suspect that part of what adcomms at these school are looking for is evidence that you're going to be able to get in a room with the people they serve and have that interaction go well. If I text depressed teens in my jammies from the comfort of my own home, am I demonstrating that? I don't know the answer, but I suspect that's one of the right questions to be asking.

 

[xxpremed22]

It looks like the OP was asking about this as something to do in addition to their current non-clinical community service, and as an add-on, it sounds great. But if you're someone like me who only has enough time for one non-clinical volunteering activity, I'm concerned this alone may not cover all your bases, at least for some adcomms.

According to LizzyM, non-clinical community service is about service to those less fortunate than yourself. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe most med schools that really emphasize non-clinical community service serve a lot of folks who are poor (e.g. Wayne, Loyola). From reading between the lines, I suspect that part of what adcomms at these school are looking for is evidence that you're going to be able to get in a room with the people they serve and have that interaction go well. If I text depressed teens in my jammies from the comfort of my own home, am I demonstrating that? I don't know the answer, but I suspect that's one of the right questions to be asking.

A few thing here. I want to note that this can be an emotional taxing activity, as there's only so much you can do to help these people. Lot's of texters are help rejecting, and you are literally the only person they have in their life to talk to, but they won't simply budge. Thus, I wouldn't characterize this as a 100% stress-free activity. During our overnight shifts (1am-5am), there can sometimes be 100+ people waiting, so you're forced to take on 3 conversations at once to keep up with the demand. Also, a note about our texters: Many of these texters don't have strong support networks and simply do not have access to proper mental and physical health resources. In fact, I've talked to individuals who just get told to "pray" away their mental health issues. Also, even though we do serve a lot of young people, we do get a chunk of older people. Some of those people are indeed homeless, and are moments away from a suicide attempt or are in the process of a suicide attempt. So this characterization that it's just a bunch of "depressed teens" using our services isn't true. I do this activity because I'm passionate about mental health. I do this activity for more than just hours. I've been in positions where for many years I've had no one to open up to about my identity, and have been forced to just keep to myself for my safety. I guess the message for OP is that you should have a variety of things, but do what you're truly passionate about, not just for hours.

 

[Prometheus123]

A few thing here. I want to note that this can be an emotional taxing activity, as there's only so much you can do to help these people. Lot's of texters are help rejecting, and you are literally the only person they have in their life to talk to, but they won't simply budge. Thus, I wouldn't characterize this as a 100% stress-free activity. During our overnight shifts (1am-5am), there can sometimes be 100+ people waiting, so you're forced to take on 3 conversations at once to keep up with the demand. Also, a note about our texters: Many of these texters don't have strong support networks and simply do not have access to proper mental and physical health resources. In fact, I've talked to individuals who just get told to "pray" away their mental health issues. Also, even though we do serve a lot of young people, we do get a chunk of older people. Some of those people are indeed homeless, and are moments away from a suicide attempt or are in the process of a suicide attempt. So this characterization that it's just a bunch of "depressed teens" using our services isn't true. I do this activity because I'm passionate about mental health. I do this activity for more than just hours. I've been in positions where for many years I've had no one to open up to about my identity, and have been forced to just keep to myself for my safety. I guess the message for OP is that you should have a variety of things, but do what you're truly passionate about, not just for hours.

I stand corrected then. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[xxpremed22]

I stand corrected then. Thanks for the clarification.

Of course. A lot of people have that same initial reaction.

 

[Kalogada]

It looks like the OP was asking about this as something to do in addition to their current non-clinical community service, and as an add-on, it sounds great. But if you're someone like me who only has enough time for one non-clinical volunteering activity, I'm concerned this alone may not cover all your bases, at least for some adcomms.

According to LizzyM, non-clinical community service is about service to those less fortunate than yourself. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe most med schools that really emphasize non-clinical community service serve a lot of folks who are poor (e.g. Wayne, Loyola). From reading between the lines, I suspect that part of what adcomms at these school are looking for is evidence that you're going to be able to get in a room with the people they serve and have that interaction go well. If I text depressed teens in my jammies from the comfort of my own home, am I demonstrating that? I don't know the answer, but I suspect that's one of the right questions to be asking.

You are correct, this is an addon to other non-clinical volunteer hours that I may accumulate. I was under the impression that volunteering in a non-clinical way was to get involved with something that you are passionate about. I would not want to do something like this just to "fill" in a check box.

 

[Prometheus123]

You are correct, this is an addon to other non-clinical volunteer hours that I may accumulate. I was under the impression that volunteering in a non-clinical way was to get involved with something that you are passionate about. I would not want to do something like this just to "fill" in a check box.

I wouldn't either. But this past cycle I found that certain things I was passionate about doing were not well received because they didn't fit the mold of what adcomms are looking for. Due to family and financial circumstances, I'm only going to get one more opportunity to apply next cycle, so this time I'm trying to do things at the intersection of what I'm passionate about and what adcomms are looking for to maximize my chances.

I certainly agree that we should do things we're passionate about, and I think this is a wonderful activity. Like I said, I very nearly signed up myself, because mental health and supporting people in tough situations is something I'm passionate about too. I was just trying to highlight a good piece of advice that an adcomm member gave that everyone seemed to ignore because I want to help others avoid making the same mistake I did.

 

[Kalogada]

I wouldn't either. But this past cycle I found that certain things I was passionate about doing were not well received because they didn't fit the mold of what adcomms are looking for. Due to family and financial circumstances, I'm only going to get one more opportunity to apply next cycle, so this time I'm trying to do things at the intersection of what I'm passionate about and what adcomms are looking for to maximize my chances.

I certainly agree that we should do things we're passionate about, and I think this is a wonderful activity. Like I said, I very nearly signed up myself, because mental health and supporting people in tough situations is something I'm passionate about too. I was just trying to highlight a good piece of advice that an adcomm member gave that everyone seemed to ignore because I want to help others avoid making the same mistake I did.

I reread your post, and it seems your take on the matter is similar to mine. Can any adcoms on this forum give light to the situation please.

 

[Dox4lyfe]

I reread your post, and it seems your take on the matter is similar to mine. Can any adcoms on this forum give light to the situation please.

Actually your situations are very different. Prometheus doesn't have the luxury of time and is limited in the number of activities he/she can take on. Because of this, Prometheus had to choose an activity that would "check off as many boxes as possible" and not one solely based off of what he was passionate about.

You already have other non clinical actives that I'm hoping already demonstrate the characteristics that adcoms are looking for. For you, this is just an extra "add-on" that demonstrates one of your additional passions. This is not as complicated as this thread is making it seem.

 

[Kalogada]

Actually your situations are very different. Prometheus doesn't have the luxury of time and is limited in the number of activities he/she can take on. Because of this, Prometheus had to choose an activity that would "check off as many boxes as possible" and not one solely based off of what he was passionate about.

You already have other non clinical actives that I'm hoping already demonstrate the characteristics that adcoms are looking for. For you, this is just an extra "add-on" that demonstrates one of your additional passions. This is not as complicated as this thread is making it seem.

Just a side tract, my other non clinical volunteering includes feeding homeless and individuals of lower economic background at my local church for certain months ofvthe year. This has been done every year for some time, I also offer free tutoring to children of les of the same demographic. Is this what we are hinting too when we say adcoms want volunteering of "so and so"

 

[Donna Moss]

.

 

[de Ribas]

were not well received

How do you know that they were not well received? Were you told that or you got a feeling of that during an interview?

 

[Prometheus123]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by the mold adcomms are looking for? Why do you think your passionate ECs were not received well?

How do you know that they were not well received? Were you told that or you got a feeling of that during an interview?

I'll try to close this can of worms since I opened it, but remember that I am not an expert in any of this and your time would be better spent rereading Catalystik's posts above.

Here are some things I wish I had known last year:

1. Only volunteer through organizations and always have a direct supervisor who tracks your hours. This is the only iron-clad requirement. Otherwise, due to the fog of the application cycle, they have to act as if you're making it up. So serving food to homeless people out of your car, for instance, is out.

2. As per LizzyM, it's about service to those less fortunate than yourself. A corollary I would add to this is that making systemic changes is not the point.

3. As per Catalystik, direct service > activism or advocacy.

4. Be cautious with anything that involves using information that isn't common knowledge to make a difference. For example, don't advocate Food Services at your hospital to stop serving patients foods with trans fats and high fructose corn syrup. You may have scientific evidence that these things contribute to obesity, sterile inflammation, atherosclerosis, metabolic syndrome, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, diabetes type II, and coronary artery disease--the FDA may have even outlawed trans fats--and making this change might make a small but meaningful impact on patient care, but again, the point is direct service, not systemic change or advocacy.

If it isn't immediately obvious to a reasonable person why what you're doing makes sense, you may have a problem. Adcomms are flooded with an astounding amount of applications every year, they're human, and we shouldn't expect them to sacrifice even more of their time to figure out what we're doing and why it's valuable. Some might, like the generous adcomm members we're privileged to hear from here on SDN, but don't count on it.

Plus, using knowledge you've learned from experts to make a difference when you yourself are not an expert can make you seem arrogant and like you're acting outside your station. And in the US medical system, due in part to liability, there's a strong cultural belief that you should only speak about things that you're qualified as an expert in. So probably don't try to help people in a new or non-standard way, unless you can get a patent on it or persuade a PI to let you publish it under their name. Otherwise, save your ideas for when you're an attending or in private practice.

Again, let's reread Catalystik's posts above and read her posts in other threads, as well as those of LizzyM, Goro, and others on this topic.

 

[Kalogada]

Everything Catalystik asked was answered and more, I think the answer to my initial question is a Yes, that this could count as non-clinical.

 

[Kalogada]

Hmm. just a update, it seems that the organization has sent me this reponse when I asked if I could list a supervisor for the med school application.

"At this time we can offer you a letter of verification that will detail the numbers of hours you have completed, the training overview and responsibilities of Crisis Counselors.

What we cannot provide is specific assessment or evaluation on your performance or other paperwork that may be required by your school (you can imagine the amount of time for verification and paperwork this would mean for us!). I encourage you to check with your advisor/manager to ensure that a verification letter will satisfy any expectations your school has."

I do not think this would count?

 

[Catalystik]

Hmm. just a update, it seems that the organization has sent me this reponse when I asked if I could list a supervisor for the med school application.

"At this time we can offer you a letter of verification that will detail the numbers of hours you have completed, the training overview and responsibilities of Crisis Counselors.

What we cannot provide is specific assessment or evaluation on your performance or other paperwork that may be required by your school (you can imagine the amount of time for verification and paperwork this would mean for us!). I encourage you to check with your advisor/manager to ensure that a verification letter will satisfy any expectations your school has."

I do not think this would count?

You don't need a performance evaluation, but you DO need an email or phone # of a named Contact who can not only verify your hours, but also dates of involvement. Potentially, you might use a school advisor or faculty member to whom you provide the letter and who is aware of the ongoing experience as you engage in it.

 

[Kalogada]

Just got an email back:
"you can definitely list your Coach along with your Coach's email address. Just to be clear though, your coach won't be able to fill out any external forms or evaluate your performance."

Looks like I'm solid

 

[661874]

Have this exact same question, since I've been working with the platform for close to a year now. Wondering if @LizzyM had any thoughts.