Critical error policy

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Chriskahn

Chriskahn

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Anyone have the critical error policy at their pharmacy school?

Apparently my school does (its in the syllabus but who reads those amiright?). Anyways I just found out today after failing my APC calculations exam. Passing grade for calculations is 90%. I actually got 90% because I ran out of time and didn't finish 1 question. I forgot my scientific calculator at home and had a graphing calculator (but those are not allowed) so I had to use the examsoft calculator thats standard on the testing program we use. It took forever to use my laptop's touch pad to select individual numbers, try and square root, and divide etc. so I couldn't finish one question.

Turns out it was a heparin dosing question and I just entered a random number (5ml) because I literally had less than 10 seconds left before the exam automatically exits. I didn't even read the question I just wanted to get the points for having correct units. So even though I passed with a 90%, I failed automatically because I made a critical error and killed the patient with 5ml of heparin at 10,000 units/ml :claps:

If I had left it blank I would have passed...
 
I have never heard of this and it sounds beyond stupid to me. Many question you get wrong in therapeutics could potential kill a patient, right? Thankfully in the real world you usually have more then 10 seconds and access to any source of your choice...
 
Yep, my old school did and OSU does now. It is better not to answer than to answer wrong on dosing calcs I guess is the lesson. However, most of the Pharm. Calc. classes have that as a specific policy that it's an automatic wrong for bad calculations and automatic fail for catastrophically wrong calculations. Sorry you got caught, but better than real life.
 
The lesson is to make sure you only use scientific calculators in real life because graphing calculators are not allowed in pharmacys.
 
Another wonderful pharmacy school policy. Luckily we only had autofails in compounding class. I couldn't imagine an autofail because i filled in the wrong scantron bubble
 
they have that kind of trick questions and the teacher doesn't tell you? what was their job? there's really too many people who get paid to do nothing. as an instructor, they're paid to give students instructions. they will have an evaluation at the end of the course. tell everyone to give that instructor a freaking F.
 
lord999 said:
Yep, my old school did and OSU does now. It is better not to answer than to answer wrong on dosing calcs I guess is the lesson. However, most of the Pharm. Calc. classes have that as a specific policy that it's an automatic wrong for bad calculations and automatic fail for catastrophically wrong calculations. Sorry you got caught, but better than real life.
Click to expand...

What does OSU stand for? ohio state? Oregon state? Oklahoma state?
 
Let people know what schools have this policy so that students can avoid them
 
sosoo said:
they have that kind of trick questions and the teacher doesn't tell you? what was their job? there's really too many people who get paid to do nothing. as an instructor, they're paid to give students instructions. they will have an evaluation at the end of the course. tell everyone to give that instructor a freaking F.
Click to expand...

Right? At least a warning or reminder before the exam would have been nice. I would have done that question first. Last year, a different APC prof had a separate section on the exam where you had to get the right answer on a specific question or you failed. The critical error policy only applied to that one question and we knew that before the exam.

This year the prof didnt say anything about critical errors. And our exams are randomized to where my question #1 could be another student's question #10 to minimize cheating. Its just my luck that the heparin question happens to be one of my last questions and it was a critical error policy one. It wasn't in a separate section and we were never told that critical error questions were even in the exam.

I wonder what the prof is going to say when I go to their office and ask "so I would have passed if I left it blank?"
 
Chriskahn said:
Right? At least a warning or reminder before the exam would have been nice. I would have done that question first. Last year, a different APC prof had a separate section on the exam where you had to get the right answer on a specific question or you failed. The critical error policy only applied to that one question and we knew that before the exam.

This year the prof didnt say anything about critical errors. And our exams are randomized to where my question #1 could be another student's question #10 to minimize cheating. Its just my luck that the heparin question happens to be one of my last questions and it was a critical error policy one. It wasn't in a separate section and we were never told that critical error questions were even in the exam.

I wonder what the prof is going to say when I go to their office and ask "so I would have passed if I left it blank?"
Click to expand...

Next time just guess 0.00000001 ml. So you can get unit points without risking a critical error.
 
You all need no reminder to know that getting dose calculations wrong is beyond stupid at this stage of your education. The only reason the class exists is to weed out anyone so careless that they won't take the time to slow down and think about the rote math that needs to go into this.

Honestly, it's hard for me to get why you all are so worked up about such a policy. That absolute right or wrong stance been an old classical policy for pharmaceutical calculations as long as I've experienced it. You get right or you don't. Now some schools take the additional policy that when you don't, it's possible to have an epic fail, and dose calculations is one of those topics that should give you pause even when it's crazy in the place. This is one of the few competency matters that pharmacists do have to get it right, each time, every time. And also, this is not hard math, this ratio and proportion arithmetic should have been something you should have had down cold in high school if not in one of your chemistries. This is not me ranting about the good old days of pharmacy, I would have a problem today with a pharmacist is careless with his/her dose calculation practice.

Just do the TPS report and learn from it that you will pay closer attention to what you bring into your exam next time, and that if you are without your normal tools, have some practice with the tools you have to make sure you're confident enough to make those calculations accurate.

Better learn to be careful now than having a conference before the Board, or getting screwed by your tech on this:
https://www.ismp.org/newsletters/acutecare/articles/20091203.asp
 
Last edited:
lord999 said:
You all need no reminder to know that getting dose calculations wrong is beyond stupid at this stage of your education. The only reason the class exists is to weed out anyone so careless that they won't take the time to slow down and think about the rote math that needs to go into this.

Honestly, it's hard for me to get why you all are so worked up about such a policy. That absolute right or wrong stance been an old classical policy for pharmaceutical calculations as long as I've experienced it. You get right or you don't. Now some schools take the additional policy that when you don't, it's possible to have an epic fail, and dose calculations is one of those topics that should give you pause even when it's crazy in the place. This is one of the few competency matters that pharmacists do have to get it right, each time, every time. And also, this is not hard math, this ratio and proportion arithmetic should have been something you should have had down cold in high school if not in one of your chemistries. This is not me ranting about the good old days of pharmacy, I would have a problem today with a pharmacist is careless with his/her dose calculation practice.

Just do the TPS report and learn from it that you will pay closer attention to what you bring into your exam next time, and that if you are without your normal tools, have some practice with the tools you have to make sure you're confident enough to make those calculations accurate.

Better learn to be careful now than having a conference before the Board, or getting screwed by your tech on this:
https://www.ismp.org/newsletters/acutecare/articles/20091203.asp
Click to expand...

The entire point of my post was to share the level of ridiculousness of my bad luck and the silliness of the policy. Leaving the answer blank versus getting the answer wrong shouldn't determine pass or fail. Its a silly technicality that doesn't relate to knowledge of the course material.

I never said that getting the right answer is not important. I'm a third year student I know how to dose heparin its not hard lol. Like I said I had less than 10 seconds...kinda hard to slow down and take your time don't you think?
 
Chriskahn said:
The entire point of my post was to share the level of ridiculousness of my bad luck and the silliness of the policy. Leaving the answer blank versus getting the answer wrong shouldn't determine pass or fail. Its a silly technicality that doesn't relate to knowledge of the course material.

I never said that getting the right answer is not important. I'm a third year student I know how to dose heparin its not hard lol. Like I said I had less than 10 seconds...kinda hard to slow down and take your time don't you think?
Click to expand...
I think what people are saying is that you should have known the policy - if there are questions you get wrong - you fail - therefore you should have given pause prior to making up an answer. The next question I ask, are you 100% sure that if you would have left blank you still wouldn't have failed? A blank answer is still a wrong answer.

Also - seriously - how do you not have time to finish an exam? In 8 years of college, 3 state boards, BCPS, etc 80% of the time I use less than half the allotted time, and can never remember a time where didn't finish with a LOT of time to spare. Part of this professional, like it or not, is speed and efficiency. That is something you will need to work on,
 
some ppl think highly of themselves n talk trash. they graduated 10+ years ago when passing the naplex was a piece of cake. "many" of them cheated at the time with notes from the UGA professors. cheating on the naplex was rampant 10+ years ago.. so dont listen to them.. these ppl wont pass the exam where u are now.
 
sosoo said:
some ppl think highly of themselves n talk trash. they graduated 10+ years ago when passing the naplex was a piece of cake. "many" of them cheated at the time with notes from the UGA professors. cheating on the naplex was rampant 10+ years ago.. so dont listen to them.. these ppl wont pass the exam where u are now.
Click to expand...

I guess they missed the fact that I didnt have a scientific calc and spent the majority of my time navigating a terrible generic calc on the testing program. Its not that Im not capable lol I did say that this was the very first time I failed a calc exam, and failed on a technicality. Yes leaving it blank would have passed me (I confirmed this) just like getting it wrong but not critically wrong would have passed me. My fault for not reading the syllabus.

Sigh...but this is SDN I should know better than to display my weakness for the wolves to see.
 
lord999 said:
You all need no reminder to know that getting dose calculations wrong is beyond stupid at this stage of your education. The only reason the class exists is to weed out anyone so careless that they won't take the time to slow down and think about the rote math that needs to go into this.

Honestly, it's hard for me to get why you all are so worked up about such a policy. That absolute right or wrong stance been an old classical policy for pharmaceutical calculations as long as I've experienced it. You get right or you don't. Now some schools take the additional policy that when you don't, it's possible to have an epic fail, and dose calculations is one of those topics that should give you pause even when it's crazy in the place. This is one of the few competency matters that pharmacists do have to get it right, each time, every time. And also, this is not hard math, this ratio and proportion arithmetic should have been something you should have had down cold in high school if not in one of your chemistries. This is not me ranting about the good old days of pharmacy, I would have a problem today with a pharmacist is careless with his/her dose calculation practice.

Just do the TPS report and learn from it that you will pay closer attention to what you bring into your exam next time, and that if you are without your normal tools, have some practice with the tools you have to make sure you're confident enough to make those calculations accurate.

Better learn to be careful now than having a conference before the Board, or getting screwed by your tech on this:
https://www.ismp.org/newsletters/acutecare/articles/20091203.asp
Click to expand...
Man that story was scary. I feel bad for the Pharmacist (as I do for the familly).
 
is it more scary than the UGA professor selling NAPLEX exam questions 10 years ago? was he jailed? what happened to him? imagine so "many" pharmacists passed the NAPLEX, a minimal competency exam, by cheating.. isn't that scary?
 
sosoo said:
is it more scary than the UGA professor selling NAPLEX exam questions 10 years ago? was he jailed? what happened to him? imagine so "many" pharmacists passed the NAPLEX, a minimal competency exam, by cheating.. isn't that scary?
Click to expand...
False equivalence. And irrelevant to the discussion.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using SDN mobile
 
lord999 said:
You all need no reminder to know that getting dose calculations wrong is beyond stupid at this stage of your education. The only reason the class exists is to weed out anyone so careless that they won't take the time to slow down and think about the rote math that needs to go into this.

Honestly, it's hard for me to get why you all are so worked up about such a policy. That absolute right or wrong stance been an old classical policy for pharmaceutical calculations as long as I've experienced it. You get right or you don't. Now some schools take the additional policy that when you don't, it's possible to have an epic fail, and dose calculations is one of those topics that should give you pause even when it's crazy in the place. This is one of the few competency matters that pharmacists do have to get it right, each time, every time. And also, this is not hard math, this ratio and proportion arithmetic should have been something you should have had down cold in high school if not in one of your chemistries. This is not me ranting about the good old days of pharmacy, I would have a problem today with a pharmacist is careless with his/her dose calculation practice.

Just do the TPS report and learn from it that you will pay closer attention to what you bring into your exam next time, and that if you are without your normal tools, have some practice with the tools you have to make sure you're confident enough to make those calculations accurate.

Better learn to be careful now than having a conference before the Board, or getting screwed by your tech on this:
https://www.ismp.org/newsletters/acutecare/articles/20091203.asp
Click to expand...

There's also the lady from Christus Spohn Shoreline that made Heparin errors.
 
Chriskahn said:
I guess they missed the fact that I didnt have a scientific calc and spent the majority of my time navigating a terrible generic calc on the testing program. Its not that Im not capable lol I did say that this was the very first time I failed a calc exam, and failed on a technicality. Yes leaving it blank would have passed me (I confirmed this) just like getting it wrong but not critically wrong would have passed me. My fault for not reading the syllabus.

Sigh...but this is SDN I should know better than to display my weakness for the wolves to see.
Click to expand...
You sound like you have a problem with making excuses to avoid accountability.
 
owlegrad said:
He came and spoke to my class when I was in school. A very scary story indeed.
Click to expand...

And honestly, complete BS on the district attorney's part. That poor guy will spend the rest of his life feeling personally guilty (and if you ever meet him, that has much more to do with personal guilt) for a tech whose mind wasn't on the subject (was planning a wedding). While there is precedent for revoking a license over a grevious error, it hasn't been invoked except in his case (ISMP pays very close attention to that) in the last thirty years. But to be prosecuted for an unintentional, no aggravating circumstances (was not impaired, was not openly negligent) mistake was something that I still think Ohio made the wrong decision. What predictably did happen was Ohio became "error-free" for six years and still doesn't report at what would be considered a normal rate due to no one trusting Ohio to support learning from mistakes.

And:

learn from it that you will pay closer attention to what you bring into your exam next time, and that if you are without your normal tools, have some practice with the tools you have to make sure you're confident enough to make those calculations accurate.

I did take the lack of the right tools into account in my answer above. I can understand running out of time without your normal tools, but still say that (and yes, I'm guilty of the same in the past which is why I have three of the same type of calculator stored in places at work for when I do the math again on the rare instances when I practice). I still think the critical error policy is instructive even though it's BS at some level too (and I'm sure you were warned about that before the exam). And to someone else, no I didn't need to cheat my way through the NAPLEX either then in the stupid easy era (and I took the harder one than the one given the year before) or in calibrating the 2011 one or this one about to be sprung on the candidates. The only difference the other two attempts were was that I was in practice for long enough that I only had to study the day before for things that I don't see (pediatric dosing exceptions and drugs, aliquotes, and mEq/mOSM calculations). The VA normally has an enough alcoholic, drug user (hepatitis), HIV, and plain geriatric (ID with renal and liver insufficiency) problem patients that most of the modern NAPLEX is something that I see enough answer to cold turkey (and I'm not even an am care or normal basement pharmacist practice anymore). NAPLEX still isn't that difficult and not notably different than the old exam except I don't see as many pointless med chem (rank the following adrenergic antagonist structures in glucuronidation order) or pharmaceutics (the dry roll method for tablets includes the following...) and more compounding questions.
 
sosoo said:
some ppl think highly of themselves n talk trash. they graduated 10+ years ago when passing the naplex was a piece of cake. "many" of them cheated at the time with notes from the UGA professors. cheating on the naplex was rampant 10+ years ago.. so dont listen to them.. these ppl wont pass the exam where u are now.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to say that today's NAPLEX is hard? It was one of the easier exams of my entire pharmacy school career.

Chriskahn said:
I guess they missed the fact that I didnt have a scientific calc and spent the majority of my time navigating a terrible generic calc on the testing program.
Click to expand...
Is the PC calculator really that hard?
 
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