Curious about doctor's life

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Dr.Icandothisitsmyfuture

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Hi,
I'm really curious about doctor (residents or attending)'s life. Will study and work take away personal life? Does doctors actually have a personal life?????
I'm greatly influenced by medical dramas like Grey's Anatomy, it seems like everyone on it ended up divorcing...
 
Residents, that is, physicians in their first 3-7 years after medical school graduation work 80 hours per week. That's less than a generation ago but it is essentially two full time jobs. Of course, you are going to come home after an overnight shift and be ready to collapse. If things went badly because a patient had a poor outcome or you were chewed out by the boss or by a patient's family member, or you feel as if you were in over your head and worried that you may have forgotten something important, you might have a hard time switching gears and being social with your family. If your spouse is under the same pressures as a physician, you can imagine that it can be difficult to let it all go and put the focus elsewhere -- or you just want to sleep when your spouse wants to chat, etc.

Even as attending physicians, you are not likely to have a job that is 9-5 with weekends off. You may be able to go out on a Saturday night but you might feel the need to stop at the hospital on the way home to check on your residents and patients. You might get pulled from the dinner table on a holiday to deal with a patient who needs emergency surgery or who has suddenly taken a turn for the worst.

There are attending physicians who have time for hobbies and family activities but it requires time management and discipline.

With respect to divorce, this paper is old but valid.

http://www.nationalreviewofmedicine.com/issue/2006/03_15/3_physicians_life02_05.html
 
I actually heard from numerous doctors that they were inspired by some television drama. So I guess Hollywood is doing a fine job encouraging people to pursue medicine 😀
 
I actually heard from numerous doctors that they were inspired by some television drama. So I guess Hollywood is doing a fine job encouraging people to pursue medicine 😀

Part of my initial "exposure" to medicine was from the show ER. I watch Grey's religiously, but shadowing and working with patients is what pushed me more into the field.
 
It depends on what type of Physician you are...... any type of surgery is usually not good in terms of having a life outside of Medicine, but there are several "lifestyle" fields that follow a more routine 9-5 pattern.
 
It depends on what type of Physician you are...... any type of surgery is usually not good in terms of having a life outside of Medicine, but there are several "lifestyle" fields that follow a more routine 9-5 pattern.
Not true.

There are many surgical fields with an elective, lifestyle friendly practice after residency. It all hinges on whether there are emergencies and ED call in ones field.
 
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Not true.

There are many surgical fields with an elective, lifestyle friendly practice after residency. It all hinges on whether there are emergencies and ED call in ones field.
Ok. I've never heard of someone going into surgery as a "lifestyle" specialty, but I guess there's a first for everything. I do know that Ophtho is pretty chill though.....
 
Ok. I've never heard of someone going into surgery as a "lifestyle" specialty, but I guess there's a first for everything. I do know that Ophtho is pretty chill though.....
"Lifestyle" could mean working 55-60 hrs a week doing something you absolutely love. And there are surgeons with such a lifestyle.
 
Ok. I've never heard of someone going into surgery as a "lifestyle" specialty, but I guess there's a first for everything. I do know that Ophtho is pretty chill though.....
Given that I'm a surgeon I feel somewhat qualified to challenge the presumption that you cannot have a good lifestyle.

I work 2 days per week in the office from 0800-1700; sometimes done earlier.

2.5 - 3 days per week I'm in the OR; I'll be done by 2 tomorrow which is pretty typical for a Monday.

Most of my cases are outpatient; those that aren't are generally discharged within 24 hours and the bigger cases are typically done Monday and Wednesday therefore relieving me of the need to round on the weekends.

I am on call once every 6 weeks and my partners and I distribute the holidays evenly (I was off for Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's last year so expect to take one of them this year). Our call volume can be heavy but it rarely requires going into the hospital. Hospital consults typically can wait until daylight hours or even after discharge, with the patient seeing us in the office.

With paperwork and administrative duties I do exceed 50 hours per week but a lot of that work can be done at home sitting by the pool.

Finally, despite all these lifestyle perks, I make more than the 75th percentile of general surgeons.

Obviously not all surgical practices are conducive to this but this is not an uncommon finding when your caseload is elective and you have no required emergency department call.
 
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Given that I'm a surgeon I feel somewhat qualified to challenge the presumption that you cannot have a good lifestyle.

I work 2 days per week in the office from 0800-1700; sometimes done earlier.

2.5 - 3 days per week I'm in the OR; I'll be done by 2 tomorrow which is pretty typical for a Monday.

Most of my cases are outpatient; those that aren't are generally discharged within 24 hours and the bigger cases are typically done Monday and Wednesday therefore relieving me of the need to round on the weekends.

I am on call once every 6 weeks and my partners and I distribute the holidays evenly (I was off for Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's last year so expect to take one of them this year). Our call volume can be heavy but it rarely requires going into the hospital. Hospital consults typically can wait until daylight hours or even after discharge, with the patient seeing us in the office.

With paperwork and administrative duties I do exceed 50 hours per week but a lot of that work can be done at home sitting by the pool.

Finally, despite all these lifestyle perks, I make more than the 75th percentile of general surgeons.

Obviously not all surgical practices are conducive to this but this is not an uncommon finding when your caseload is elective and you have no required emergency department call.
Sounds like a pretty decent schedule to me! Are you a General Surgeon? Maybe people just see the hours that you have to work and residency and just assume that surgeons will work similar hours once they are attendings. What is the size of the hospital you work in? And is it common to be able to arrange no emergency call?
 
Residents, that is, physicians in their first 3-7 years after medical school graduation work 80 hours per week. That's less than a generation ago but it is essentially two full time jobs. Of course, you are going to come home after an overnight shift and be ready to collapse. If things went badly because a patient had a poor outcome or you were chewed out by the boss or by a patient's family member, or you feel as if you were in over your head and worried that you may have forgotten something important, you might have a hard time switching gears and being social with your family. If your spouse is under the same pressures as a physician, you can imagine that it can be difficult to let it all go and put the focus elsewhere -- or you just want to sleep when your spouse wants to chat, etc.

Even as attending physicians, you are not likely to have a job that is 9-5 with weekends off. You may be able to go out on a Saturday night but you might feel the need to stop at the hospital on the way home to check on your residents and patients. You might get pulled from the dinner table on a holiday to deal with a patient who needs emergency surgery or who has suddenly taken a turn for the worst.

There are attending physicians who have time for hobbies and family activities but it requires time management and discipline.

With respect to divorce, this paper is old but valid.

http://www.nationalreviewofmedicine.com/issue/2006/03_15/3_physicians_life02_05.html


Psych residency averages 50hrs a week. Most psychiatrist work less than 35 hrs a week and make 200k+.
 
"Lifestyle" could mean working 55-60 hrs a week doing something you absolutely love. And there are surgeons with such a lifestyle.
True, but regarding that the OP asked about "personal life", I figured it would be clear what I meant. I would argue that having a good "lifestyle" would mean having the time to do whatever you find most enjoyable in life, which may be a golf course for some people, and an operating room for others.
 
.... I would argue that having a good "lifestyle" would mean having the time to do whatever you find most enjoyable in life, which may be a golf course for some people, and an operating room for others.

Strange way to define it. If having the time to be in the OR or hospital counts as "lifestyle" I'd say every field is lifestyle. But I suspect you are the only one defining this term in this way. Lifestyle is code for free time outside of work. That's what 99.9999999% of people mean when they talk about lifestyle jobs. They aren't asking "will I get to stay at work, yay!" 🙂
 
True, but regarding that the OP asked about "personal life", I figured it would be clear what I meant. I would argue that having a good "lifestyle" would mean having the time to do whatever you find most enjoyable in life, which may be a golf course for some people, and an operating room for others.
Or time for both. At least where I'm from (NYC), working less than 60 hrs a week means that you have a "lifestyle" profession (in terms of having free time).
And since you brought up golf, I had to resurrect this cartoon:
image.jpg

I'm like a pm&r propaganda machine😉
 
Sounds like a pretty decent schedule to me! Are you a General Surgeon? Maybe people just see the hours that you have to work and residency and just assume that surgeons will work similar hours once they are attendings. What is the size of the hospital you work in? And is it common to be able to arrange no emergency call?
I completed a General Surgery residency and a Breast Surgical Oncology fellowship; my practice is 100% breast cases. Yes most users on SDN assume the long hours of an academic residency continue when in practice. It certainly may but for many specialties, it is manageable. And of course since I am self employed, I am not required to work a certain number of hours or see a certain number of patients as long as I can pay my share of the overhead.

In my field it is common to have no ED call and for many others it is optional or,courtesy. Hospitals have figured out that mandating call just means that surgeons will go elsewhere. Several years ago the main hospital I go to decided to mandate call for many specialties including ENT, PRS, and NSGY. They found themselves with no ENT, PRS and NSGY as everyone relinquished their privileges. We're in a very large city with many hospitals so they realized their mistake and made call coverage courtesy; it's only required for the 2 general surgeons employed by the hospital ( as well as some other non surgical specialties),

I am not a hospital employed surgeon but in private practice and have admitting and operative privileges at several hospitals and surgery centers in town; the two I operate at the most have 433 and 531 acute care beds. I work in a heavily private practice town; most surgeons here are in private practice.
 
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Little side question while everyone is on this topic, but does life dramatically change when you switch over from being a resident to being an attending?
 
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Ok. I've never heard of someone going into surgery as a "lifestyle" specialty, but I guess there's a first for everything. I do know that Ophtho is pretty chill though.....

One of my (general) surgery attendings would take call like once per week for his group, would have 1-2 days of elective surgeries per week (one day being colonoscopies), and would spend the rest of the time in clinic. Every 5th week or so, he'd do the 'urgent' surgery service (the appys and choles that came in to the ED), and not do his own clinic/surgeries during that time. So his surgery days were like 6-6 (since he would round throughout the day between cases, he was often done by 4-5), and his non-surgery days were more like 8-5.
 
Strange way to define it. If having the time to be in the OR or hospital counts as "lifestyle" I'd say every field is lifestyle. But I suspect you are the only one defining this term in this way. Lifestyle is code for free time outside of work. That's what 99.9999999% of people mean when they talk about lifestyle jobs. They aren't asking "will I get to stay at work, yay!" 🙂
Well, you have to see the context of my reply. I mentioned that I never thought people would go into surgery for the lifestyle, and then someone responded saying: "Lifestyle" could mean working 55-60 hrs a week doing something you absolutely love. And there are surgeons with such a lifestyle."

That's what I was responding to.......
 
Little side question while everyone is on this topic, but does life dramatically change when you switch over from being a resident to being an attending?

Life changes in that you won't be broke all the time. But whether hours go down or even up depends a lot on the practice setting and specialty. Most of the new attendings i know actually saw their hours go up significantly after training as they became low men on the totem pole at practices where they got the lions share of call and had to pay their dues. No acgme duty hour ules apply to attendings so theres nothing stopping you from staying on to learn or double check things. Also you may be a bit slower and more careful at first when you end up in the setting where nobody is overseeing you and the liability is yours. The younger attendings tend to write more detailed notes and spend more time seeing the patients than some of the older guard. And residents are often more comfortable waking up the young attendings than the older more austere guys on call, in my experience.
 
Well, you have to see the context of my reply. I mentioned that I never thought people would go into surgery for the lifestyle, and then someone responded saying: "Lifestyle" could mean working 55-60 hrs a week doing something you absolutely love. And there are surgeons with such a lifestyle."

That's what I was responding to.......

A 55 hour a week job in surgery would absolutely be lifestyle -- I know many who log twice that. But again my point was that your post AND the post you were responding to are outliers -- nobody means enjoying being at work as "lifestyle" -- as lifestyle is a code word for cushy hours and NOT being at work as much. Whether you like your job or not doesn't make it a Lifestyle field -- lifestyle has nothing to do with anything but hours, or sometimes hours plus pay. plenty of people in lifestyle fields also love their jobs, but thts not part of wht makes them lifestyle, they just get to enjoy then for 50 hours a week instead of 80.

Everything in moderation. As an example, you may love ice cream, but if you had to eat five gallons in each sitting that might not be as enjoyable. So lifestyle is more in line with getting just a bowl a day, even if you enjoy it.
 
Dad is a surgical oncologist in a private practice. M-F he goes to the hospital at around 0700 and doesn't come back till 1930-2000. When he operates it's closer to 0600. Saturdays he spends a couple of hours at the hospital too.

Surgical onc vs breast onc is a vastly different field of practice.
 
Little side question while everyone is on this topic, but does life dramatically change when you switch over from being a resident to being an attending?
It's going to depend on specialty and type of practice, but for me, it's a huge change for the better. As a new (medical, not surgical) academic attending, I'm working half as many clinical hours compared to when I was in residency for about four times more money. That of course doesn't include non-clinical duties such as meetings, administrative, teaching, research, etc. My residency classmates going into private practice are working about the same number of clinical hours and earning about 50% more money than I am, although the difference isn't as great as it sounds when you factor in the extra benefits I get as a state employee. For example, they have to pay their own malpractice, DEA, etc, all of which is covered or waived for me by the state. They still come out ahead though; academia is not the way to go if you want to maximize income and free time.
 
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He is a breast cancer surgical oncologist
In my experience and that of my friends and colleagues, the schedule youve listed for a breast surgical oncologist is very unusual.

Because most of the surgeries are either outpatient or home within 24 hours, most patients, if not all, have been discharged by Friday and there is no reason to be in the hospital on the weekends other then the rare consultation which can't wait to be seen after discharge in the office.

If he's staying in the office until seven or eight every night doing charts, I can understand that especially if you do not have an efficient electronic medical record. Some nights I stay that late in the office to do charts as because it's quiet and the server makes the connection much faster but I would still venture that to do that routinely seems a bit odd.

I would be interested to know what it is about your father's practice that makes him want or need to work that many hours per week routinely.
 
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They are slowly switching to electronic records but it's still mainly. I think that he is so busy literally because he sees so many patients. He has a private practice and he operates 2 to 3 times a week, Tuesday Wednesday and Thursday.

Yes, I understand that - I'm in private practice as well, pretty busy and operate 3 days a week myself. I'll be interested to see if his hours don't get better once he fully switches to an EMR. I do my charts between OR cases and typically walk out of the office at night with all my charts done for the day.
 
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