Curious about financial literacy of other psychiatrists ; )

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Anyone looking at housing right now knows the pain. I was talking to an ophthalmologist who bought a 550k house right at the start of COVID. He was telling me about how great his neighborhood is and to buy close by. An identical house down the street from him (cookie cutter neighborhood) is selling for 1.8 million. I wouldn’t buy there anyway, not a fan of the cookie-cutter suburban McMansions, but houses more than tripling in value over 5 years is quite something.
 
Anyone looking at housing right now knows the pain. I was talking to an ophthalmologist who bought a 550k house right at the start of COVID. He was telling me about how great his neighborhood is and to buy close by. An identical house down the street from him (cookie cutter neighborhood) is selling for 1.8 million. I wouldn’t buy there anyway, not a fan of the cookie-cutter suburban McMansions, but houses more than tripling in value over 5 years is quite something.

Ive been renting a house for 2+ years that would cost 50% more if i were to get a mortagage at current rates. Now it seems the rent prices are catching up to the mortagage but just in the neighbordhood i am in. Learned a lot about the costs associated with a house as numerous things have needed fixing and the place is only 13 years old but at no cost to me. Even then theres a ton of rentals + or - 500 in the same city but might be in a lucky situation as the landlords haven't raised rent and we are month to month now with no increase for several months now.


some context. Houses in my area are up 50% at most since 2020-2021. Midwest area.
 
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I mean, yes? Home values shouldn’t depreciate in general so idk why you’d expect to find something similar for less unless you’re looking in a lower COL city.
Bought a house built by a neurosurgeon in a rural community, our RE agent knew the original builder. He spent $900,000+ in the early 2000's. We bought it for approx $250,000 around 15 years after the build. But yes, house prices due to historically rise about 90% of the years in the past decade.
 
I now understand why people love watching sports. I have been beating the S&P500 and frankly am accepting to take some risk as long as I don't lag too far behind it. But I watch my portfolio like how people cheer their sports teams on. Beating the index consistently for 2 decades is a bit more common than I originally estimated. I got some things squirreled away securely (so there is a bottom I know I won't fall below), it is a little joy I engage in. Go Robinhood!!! (jk....sorta...). Just at least hit the longterm investment threshold to avoid too much tax, duck out during some winnings and put back in index. But that's just me, not giving any financial advice here : P.
You may like the new hot wealth influencer guy, Nick Maggiulli. My feeds have been full of the stuff from his "Wealth Ladder" book, and part of that is making sure you have your finances set up so you never fall below whatever bottom you set. I used to follow Aswath Damodaran a lot also and had a similar philosophy on his investments.


Of course, everyone is going gaga over the wealth ladder. Most docs probably go from 3-4, with a small number going to low 5.
The Six Levels of the Wealth Ladder
  • Level 1: Less than $10,000
    • Freedom: Paycheck-to-paycheck, where small unexpected expenses can become major problems.
      • Median Household Income: $32,000.
    • Level 2: $10,000 – $100,000
        • Freedom: Grocery freedom, allowing for minor splurges without checking your bank balance.
        • Median Household Income: $47,000.
    • Level 3: $100,000 – $1 Million
        • Freedom: Restaurant freedom, meaning you can afford to eat out without financial worry.
        • Median Household Income: $83,000.
    • Level 4: $1 Million – $10 Million
        • Freedom: Travel freedom, enabling you to travel when and where you want.
        • Median Household Income: $197,000.
        • Note: This is considered a significant milestone, and Maggiulli suggests it may be a sufficient level for many people.
    • Level 5: $10 Million – $100 Million
        • Freedom: House freedom, allowing you to purchase a dream home without significant financial strain.
        • Median Household Income: $724,000.
        • Note: Reaching this level typically requires significant income and entrepreneurship or equity ownership.
    • Level 6: More than $100 Million
        • Freedom: Impact freedom, providing the means to use money to change lives and make a broad impact.
        • Note: This level is associated with extreme wealth, with only a very small percentage of households reaching it.
 
I’m surprised your retirement plan doesn’t have a total stock market index fund of some sort. Spouse and I have worked at several small community hospitals with cruddy insurance over the years and there has always been a TSM index fund available.
Same. No clue why. But the other available indexes can replicate very closely (Mix of Domestic Large/Small and International Large/Small Cap indexes)
 
Bought a house built by a neurosurgeon in a rural community, our RE agent knew the original builder. He spent $900,000+ in the early 2000's. We bought it for approx $250,000 around 15 years after the build. But yes, house prices due to historically rise about 90% of the years in the past decade.
Lots of idiosyncratic luxury finishes and architectural details that don't translate to ROI? I imagine that would be especially true in rural communities. 2025 cost vs value report says a luxury bath remodel on average is around $80k but only expected to add $35k to sale price. Home price floor and ceiling are most strongly dictated by #rooms, square footage, and land acreage.
 
You may like the new hot wealth influencer guy, Nick Maggiulli. My feeds have been full of the stuff from his "Wealth Ladder" book, and part of that is making sure you have your finances set up so you never fall below whatever bottom you set. I used to follow Aswath Damodaran a lot also and had a similar philosophy on his investments.


Of course, everyone is going gaga over the wealth ladder. Most docs probably go from 3-4, with a small number going to low 5.

I think with crypto your going to see a lot more young docs make it to level 4-5 towards the end of their careers if they hold it which is a big IF.
Not gonna lie thought it was a joke/scam but its more likely to be closer to 7 figs in the early 2030s. Also, expect tesla to give nvidia a run for its money by the end of this decade.
 
Any updated advice would be appreciated

base of index funds like voo, qqq in your IRA's. Money set aside that wont break the bank if you lose it in nvida/tesla/mag 7 plus digital gold.

If your younger the more risk you can take. Bump in 2030 and i think you'll be smiling.
 
Lots of idiosyncratic luxury finishes and architectural details that don't translate to ROI? I imagine that would be especially true in rural communities. 2025 cost vs value report says a luxury bath remodel on average is around $80k but only expected to add $35k to sale price. Home price floor and ceiling are most strongly dictated by #rooms, square footage, and land acreage.
Tons of supply of housing and low demand in a heavily declining area (that was not in heavy decline in the early 2000's). "luxury" homes in the area were down 25-75% over the decade or so preceding, with those on the high end of decline being in the worse school districts (and boy did they get bad, we knew well in advance that we would be moving before using them).

House had lots of sq footage, rooms, and land. Large in-ground pool and backyard work probably added $0. It also needed updating. Turned out it was possible to buy fancy expensive wood in 2000 that looks bad in 2020. Felt a bit odd "downsizing" despite buying a home 4x the price, but I'm told there are 3 Ls in real estate and that's certainly been my experience to date.
 
I think with crypto your going to see a lot more young docs make it to level 4-5 towards the end of their careers if they hold it which is a big IF.
Not gonna lie thought it was a joke/scam but its more likely to be closer to 7 figs in the early 2030s. Also, expect tesla to give nvidia a run for its money by the end of this decade.
Or be left holding the bag... It remains a speculative grift, even if it's received some undeserved legitimacy from the current administration's conflicts of interest.
 
Or be left holding the bag... It remains a speculative grift, even if it's received some undeserved legitimacy from the current administration's conflicts of interest.

I look at the data and numbers. They support 15 years of uptrend. Blackrock/Fidelity/schwaub and overall legislation support it. Again not financial advice or touting betting the house on it but its here to stay and will outperform most things.
 
I look at the data and numbers. They support 15 years of uptrend. Blackrock/Fidelity/schwaub and overall legislation support it. Again not financial advice or touting betting the house on it but its here to stay and will outperform most things.
I guess it will work as long as enough people keep buying into the Ponzi scheme that has lined the administration’s pockets.
 
I've learned in life to just ride the waves best I can and enjoy the show? 🥴
 
Are you investing in BTC at all?
only very recently, nothing good or bad has come of it and I put in a very small amount. will check out the status in about a year or two.
 
Yeah, 529 has tax benefits but the way I see it, those benefits only exist IF you were planning on utilizing that money for college. You wouldn't spend extra money on business expenses just to deduct from taxes. Same principle here. UTMA is a stop-gap anyway, just until their old enough to be on payroll and contribute to a Roth IRA (where earnings can be spent on educational expenses without being taxed).

In state tuition for Ohio Sate is 29k but spend $5k on super expensive ACT tutoring, your kid gets a 36 on the ACT, and now Ohio State's tuition is negative 5k (make your kid give it back to you for the ACT tutoring). Or score high on the PSAT and get national merit. I lost count of how many full ride offers I got because of national merit. Much more financial sense to spend a few thousand on test prep (honestly, hundreds is more than enough if they've got a solid foundation) in 10th grade rather than 30k a year after they graduate.

In short, if someone's doing well enough to be considering tier 2 (tier 1? basically the schools right below H/Y/P/S/MIT) private schools, they're doing well enough to get sizable merit scholarships at various public universities.
What does “full ride” mean in that context?
 
What does “full ride” mean in that context?
Is there more than one meaning? Unless there's some niche meaning I'm unaware of, it means tuition/fees + room/board + books/supplies. So the full cost of going to college.
 
Or be left holding the bag... It remains a speculative grift, even if it's received some undeserved legitimacy from the current administration's conflicts of interest.
Meh, there’s enough fanatics out there in the 1% to ensure it at least continues to hold some value. Not where I’d be putting the bulk of investments, but if someone has an extra couple hundred or thousands of bucks they’re looking to invest it’s not the worst option by any means so long as you can exchange the crypto for actual cash.


Tons of supply of housing and low demand in a heavily declining area (that was not in heavy decline in the early 2000's). "luxury" homes in the area were down 25-75% over the decade or so preceding, with those on the high end of decline being in the worse school districts (and boy did they get bad, we knew well in advance that we would be moving before using them).

House had lots of sq footage, rooms, and land. Large in-ground pool and backyard work probably added $0. It also needed updating. Turned out it was possible to buy fancy expensive wood in 2000 that looks bad in 2020. Felt a bit odd "downsizing" despite buying a home 4x the price, but I'm told there are 3 Ls in real estate and that's certainly been my experience to date.
Right, was going to say this earlier but Flow beat me to it. Building you dream home is great, but the problem is that most people’s dreams don’t match up with others’ dreams. Location is definitely key. We’ve got about 20% equity in our house in the last 3 years despite putting nothing down and only paying for 5% of that equity through the principal. That said, our Midwest city is definitely on the rise and our suburb is expanding rapidly. It’s a high demand area with a relatively LCoL, so a pretty nice area to be a homeowner right now.
 
Hi twospadz! Are there any other stocks you would recommend? 🙂
For my own entertainment, always wondered if there is any way to foresee young stocks before they explode but while they are still dirt cheap. And someone on a forum said, they just ask their friend who has ASD. I laughed harder at that than I should. Then a part of me wondered....is there someone out there who has this and they just don't know it? That'd be something else!
 
For my own entertainment, always wondered if there is any way to foresee young stocks before they explode but while they are still dirt cheap. And someone on a forum said, they just ask their friend who has ASD. I laughed harder at that than I should. Then a part of me wondered....is there someone out there who has this and they just don't know it? That'd be something else!
 
since I keep dripping with ideas. the story is interesting from a psychodynamic standpoint too. Mother encouraged him to run away from a chaotic home, sent him with $5. He worked as a board boy and started doing bids at betting parlors. Got kicked out of a bunch because he kept winning. After a bit, he earns a decent chunk and returns to mother to give her $1000 and presumably reunite. Reportedly turned away for being a gambler. He goes on to have three marriages and two children. One shot and killed by one of his wives. He dies by suicide. Great potential for a screen play and/or drama.

The Wall Street Wolf and his quest for love, which money can never buy. Nor happiness.
 
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I contribute about half of my money to the market each year, 75% in SPY, 25% in a mix of dividend-producing ETFs and stocks that net me about 8.5% annually. The former is my nest egg, the latter lets me turn off drips if I want a free vacation or whatever without having to break the bank or sell stock. Set to retire in about 10 years, after 12 total years practicing, however I'll probably keep working part time because I enjoy it
Very similar to my goal and approach as well.
 
I save about 25% of family income per year, mainly in index funds or similar. Backdoor roth for spouse and I yearly. Planning to have 529's cover at least my kids' undergrad education. Not diversifying into real estate unless its to buy my own office someday.

I have a retail account on e trade to channel my I'm-so-smart-today-is-the-day-I-beat-the-market energy. In hindsight I should have put that money into beanie babies. (Maybe its not too late to buy the beanie dip?!)

50% chance we retire at 60, 50% a family member gets very sick or needs extended nursing care and we're bankrupt no matter what we saved.

Also - can we all agree not to use the term "invest" when discussing cryptocurrency? How about "conceptual gambling" or "high finance hot-potato?" Unless of course you're buying our sitting president's crypto for a little quid-pro-crypto. Now thats an investment.
 
I save about 25% of family income per year, mainly in index funds or similar. Backdoor roth for spouse and I yearly. Planning to have 529's cover at least my kids' undergrad education. Not diversifying into real estate unless its to buy my own office someday.

I have a retail account on e trade to channel my I'm-so-smart-today-is-the-day-I-beat-the-market energy. In hindsight I should have put that money into beanie babies. (Maybe its not too late to buy the beanie dip?!)

50% chance we retire at 60, 50% a family member gets very sick or needs extended nursing care and we're bankrupt no matter what we saved.

Also - can we all agree not to use the term "invest" when discussing cryptocurrency? How about "conceptual gambling" or "high finance hot-potato?" Unless of course you're buying our sitting president's crypto for a little quid-pro-crypto. Now thats an investment.

Maybe you should let morgan stanley know as they are now pushing 2-4% allocations to btc.

 
A multinational megacorporation getting into the action doesn't mean its an investment - it means they still think they can make money off people who "invest" in a string of block chain calculations.

If you anticipate some other sucker will be left holding the bag and not you, well, good luck.

Edit - should we have a seperate thread for an old man vs crypto bro side bar?
 
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Not diversifying into real estate unless its to buy my own office someday.
I agree, most home owning doctors already have significant (if not overweight) exposure to real estate in their primary home. It would only be in LCoL areas where I would even consider adding in additional real estate exposure via REITs.
 
A multinational megacorporation getting into the action doesn't mean its an investment - it means they still think they can make money off people who "invest" in a string of block chain calculations.

If you anticipate some other sucker will be left holding the bag and not you, well, good luck.

Edit - should we have a seperate thread for an old man vs crypto bro side bar?

I think our definition of the word “investment” is different. Bitcoin has been around long enough that it isn’t a “scam” but I agree that it isn’t a sound investment to put a moderate percentage of net worth. You could theoretically “invest” in baseball cards, art, real estate, mutual funds, watches, or whatever, but I consider the quality of those investments to be very different. Where is the line drawn between an investment and gambling?
 
I've thought about that. Philosophically I think investing is when you genuinely believe in what a given item or business is inherently of quality and through that, you believe you will make money. It's a subset of gambling. BTC could be either depending on the person's outlook on crypto.
 
I think our definition of the word “investment” is different. Bitcoin has been around long enough that it isn’t a “scam” but I agree that it isn’t a sound investment to put a moderate percentage of net worth. You could theoretically “invest” in baseball cards, art, real estate, mutual funds, watches, or whatever, but I consider the quality of those investments to be very different. Where is the line drawn between an investment and gambling?

To each there own. I dont believe in bonds. Lots of debate that the 60/40 portfolio is dead. Btc likely outperforms qqq/voo over the next 5 years. im good with that. Will see in 2030.
 
To each there own. I dont believe in bonds. Lots of debate that the 60/40 portfolio is dead. Btc likely outperforms qqq/voo over the next 5 years. im good with that. Will see in 2030.
The global bond market is three times the size of the global stick market.
 
Maybe you should let morgan stanley know as they are now pushing 2-4% allocations to btc.

Nice thing about Morgan Stanley is if that 2-4% goes TO THE MOON, they'll make out huge. If it crashes, we'll bail em out because they're too big to fail.
 
I've thought about that. Philosophically I think investing is when you genuinely believe in what a given item or business is inherently of quality and through that, you believe you will make money. It's a subset of gambling. BTC could be either depending on the person's outlook on crypto.
The definition of investment is something that provides you future cashflow. In the case of bonds/CDs this is the coupon you are paid. In the case of real estate the rent you are paid or premium you make when building/flipping a house. In the case of stocks this is the portion of their earnings you are owed, paid for via stock appreciation or dividends.

This is not about belief, the above instruments actually entitle you to future cash flow. Things that do not entitle you to future cash flow are speculation. There can be speculation that has positive expected value (some will argue crypto here, precious metals, land that is not built upon) and speculation that has negative expected value is called gambling. Of course for many things we are not sure if the speculation has positive or negative expected value (collectibles of many kinds fall into this range, I would argue crypto does as well). There is nothing inherently wrong with having some speculative assets, many people encouraged small amounts of precious metals even before the largest gold bull run we are living through, but they still remain speculative assets regardless of recent performance.
 
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The global bond market is three times the size of the global stick market.
This is true, but also influenced by huge investors (pension funds, countries, etc.). Absolutely nothing wrong with owning bonds for individual investors and there are certainly instances in which they can improve risk-adjusted returns. That said, globally diversified equity portfolios can be less risky for individual investors. Both below links are the same research but presented in different formats.

 
collectibles of many kinds fall into this range
May I introduce you to Alpha Investments AKA Rudy?



(No it's absolutely not worth watching the whole video. Scroll back a minute to see like 40x $1200 booster boxes. The timestamp is him talking about price fluctuations.)
 
May I introduce you to Alpha Investments AKA Rudy?



(No it's absolutely not worth watching the whole video. Scroll back a minute to see like 40x $1200 booster boxes. The timestamp is him talking about price fluctuations.)

Speaking of vintage investing, anyone here investing in recently liquidated assets from the Louvre?
 
Speaking of vintage investing, anyone here investing in recently liquidated assets from the Louvre?
I was, no joke, thinking about trying to buy an original Monet for a few months. Looked into auction prices and how to determine providence. New goal is shifting to buying a second (lake) home. Weill see what random consumption brain comes up with next!
 
I was, no joke, thinking about trying to buy an original Monet for a few months. Looked into auction prices and how to determine providence. New goal is shifting to buying a second (lake) home. Weill see what random consumption brain comes up with next!
I feel like the high-end art world is for extremely wealthy people who are very well connected. It's all about the layer of shell game that happens to enable the various tax avoidance schemes.
 
I've thought about that. Philosophically I think investing is when you genuinely believe in what a given item or business is inherently of quality and through that, you believe you will make money. It's a subset of gambling. BTC could be either depending on the person's outlook on crypto.
LOL. Investing is buying, or borrowing, something that you believe will increase in value, for whatever reason.
 
Just a few randoms:
I bought quite a bit of UNH when it tanked for no truly good reason months ago. It's been a good investment.

I bought BROS when it tanked a few weeks ago for no truly good reason and it has been a good investment. I also happen to like their drinks.

Most of the Mag 7 continue to be good investments. I am considering buying more puts on Palantir.
 
As a millionaire 5 years out of residency and practicing psychiatrist, my advice would be to invest in AI, Energy or semiconductors. Iren, APLD, Bloom Energy, Oklo, etc are some winners.
Well. Whoever was smart to buy IREN after I mentioned it is up a lot. Congrats. Oh yea, bloom energy and APLD too.
 

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I have over a decade before kids' college becomes an active issue for me, and I 100% agree with you in principle about the lack of real benefit in Tufts et al vs state school. With that being said, my kids recently had a birthday party and they were supposed to only open one present a day. Well I ended up letting them open like 8 presents in two days. So I'm gonna stand firm and say they're only getting like $20k a year from me for college, but when they come up to me and say Tufts is their dream school, I'm writing that $100k check. Hope you're firmer than me.

As philosopher M. Tyson said, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face"
Sort of related - recent podcast I follow from Scott Galloway with Morgan Housel as a guest, about college admissions coaching. Morgan said he wouldn't get that for his kids because if you can't apply to college on your own, you probably aren't ready for college. Scott responds with something along the lines of yeah that's true, but everyone else is doing it and you want the best for your kid so you'll do it too. Morgan's kids are still very young whereas Scott at least has one applying to college now FWIW.



Youtube link
 
Sort of related - recent podcast I follow from Scott Galloway with Morgan Housel as a guest, about college admissions coaching. Morgan said he wouldn't get that for his kids because if you can't apply to college on your own, you probably aren't ready for college. Scott responds with something along the lines of yeah that's true, but everyone else is doing it and you want the best for your kid so you'll do it too. Morgan's kids are still very young whereas Scott at least has one applying to college now FWIW.



Youtube link

It's so frustrating because these thing's actually can be gamed with the consultants and test taking specialists such that you become at an active disadvantage if you don't have them. It's why I am so vehemently against PEDs in professional sports, it creates a culture in which you have to use them to keep up with everyone. God knows how much I am going to be shelling out for this nonsense when it comes time for my child to go to college, but I am not optimistic anyone figures out a way to level the playing field.
 
It's so frustrating because these thing's actually can be gamed with the consultants and test taking specialists such that you become at an active disadvantage if you don't have them. It's why I am so vehemently against PEDs in professional sports, it creates a culture in which you have to use them to keep up with everyone. God knows how much I am going to be shelling out for this nonsense when it comes time for my child to go to college, but I am not optimistic anyone figures out a way to level the playing field.
Be part of the admissions committee and coach them yourself! Kidding, but not really, but kind of...
 
Speaking of vintage investing, anyone here investing in recently liquidated assets from the Louvre?
You can buy antique office furniture, depreciate it, and then sell it.

But artwork for the office, cannot be deprecated on taxes. Oops.
 
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It's so frustrating because these thing's actually can be gamed with the consultants and test taking specialists such that you become at an active disadvantage if you don't have them. It's why I am so vehemently against PEDs in professional sports, it creates a culture in which you have to use them to keep up with everyone. God knows how much I am going to be shelling out for this nonsense when it comes time for my child to go to college, but I am not optimistic anyone figures out a way to level the playing field.
Has the meta changed that significantly since we all applied to college and med school? I imagine that a lot of these things can still be figured out without the consultants, they just make it easier/more streamlined (if good.)
 
Has the meta changed that significantly since we all applied to college and med school? I imagine that a lot of these things can still be figured out without the consultants, they just make it easier/more streamlined (if good.)
I think it has a bit with essays, how can you sound 80% DEI without being 100% DEI but also not too little DEI (the preceeding sentence is partially tongue-in-cheek). Certainly the evidence basis is strong for good test prep raising test scores. I mean my partner and I both successfully navigated the process so I am sure we could help with med school itself, but if my kid was applying to MIT or Stanford I couldn't begin to know what they want and I think it's pretty clear what they want has evolved over the past 20 years.
 
I think it has a bit with essays, how can you sound 80% DEI without being 100% DEI but also not too little DEI (the preceeding sentence is partially tongue-in-cheek). Certainly the evidence basis is strong for good test prep raising test scores. I mean my partner and I both successfully navigated the process so I am sure we could help with med school itself, but if my kid was applying to MIT or Stanford I couldn't begin to know what they want and I think it's pretty clear what they want has evolved over the past 20 years.
Yeah its all this "soft" stuff that I think would be difficult to navigate, even with the help of online resources. I just looked at my undergrad's acceptance numbers - my year (early 2000s) was ~25%, now its 9%. Not to mention that the average GPA, # of extracurriculars etc is higher now. Gotta distinguish yourself in more subtle ways.

Also, market been pretty "interesting" the past couple weeks...
 
Has the meta changed that significantly since we all applied to college and med school? I imagine that a lot of these things can still be figured out without the consultants, they just make it easier/more streamlined (if good.)
The meta hasn't changed, it's parental anxiety that has changed significantly. These consultants do very little that can't be figured out by just talking to other parents (or these days, using Chat GPT). Consultants are alleviating parental anxiety, nothing more. And their results are mediocre. I have an uncle who's very wealthy (like lower end of mid 8 figures net worth). Was at a gathering he hosted where there were many parents of his similar socioeconomic background who were talking about college consultants they'd dropped 100k+ on and were raving about how helpful they were in getting their kids into great colleges. And the colleges were....Northwestern, Wash U, Tufts, Carnegie Melon, etc. All good school, sure, but if I was paying 100k+ for a consultant, my kids better be getting into Harvard/Stanford/MIT. They can't guarantee that because no matter how you slice it, there's a finite amount of things that can be done to maximize your chances of getting into a top school and those things are relatively straightforward.
 
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