current grad student considering pharmacy

[doubter101]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

I just started a PhD program in organic chemistry and am already having doubts about it. I know that I shouldn't jump to any conclusions yet since it is still early on, but I can't help but think that maybe I should have gone to pharmacy school instead. I've been told that if I really wanted to switch that it would be good to stick it out here and at least pick up my MS degree because it might look bad to just drop out. My only concern is that I'll be here for at least a little over a year to earn a master's. If, and it's a big if, I could get the master's by then, I would still have a little time to try and shadow a pharmacist, get applications together, but I would still have to take a few pre-rec classes. A lot of schools require a public speaking class, an econ class, and three bio classes (I only took two), and I think a microbiology class as well. I don't even know if I can take those at a J.C. or if I have to take them at a university. Basically I would still have a lot of work to do to apply for 2008. How bad would it be if I left the program without a degree? Has anyone experienced this and made the switch? Any advice would be great.

 

[BiOGoly]

I just started a PhD program in organic chemistry and am already having doubts about it. I know that I shouldn't jump to any conclusions yet since it is still early on, but I can't help but that maybe I should have gone to pharmacy school instead. I've been told that if I really wanted to switch that it would be good to stick it out here and at least pick up my MS degree because it might look bad to just drop out. My only concern is that I'll be here for at least a little over a year to earn a master's. If, and it's a big if, I could get the master's by then, I would still have a little time to try and shadow a pharmacist, get applications together, but I would still have to take a few pre-rec classes. A lot of schools require a public speaking class, an econ class, and three bio classes (I only took two), and I think a microbiology class as well. Basically I would still have a lot of work to do to apply for 2008. How bad would it be if I left the program without a degree? Has anyone experienced this and made the switch? Any advice would be great.

I really don't think it would count against you at all, it all depends on your justifications. If you can give good reasons for deciding pharmacy is for you and why you are better off in a pharmacy program, that's going to be good enough. I'd finish the degree if it I was close to completion, but if it's going to cost you another year or two you're probably better off just focusing on getting the pharm pre-reqs out of the way and your application in. Good luck to you!

 

[sdn1977]

OK - so talk....what are your doubts? What are your concerns? Do you have a mentor in your program? Did you make this choice yourself or did someone push you into it? Why did you make the choice you made???

Ask yourself some questions before you start to find another path...otherwise you'll be asking yourself these same questions, but in another program.

Good Luck!

 

[cdpiano27]

Well, I do not know about a PhD in organic chemistry, but I know several PhD's in chemistry who cannot get jobs. They are in postdoc forever, and cannot find industry nor faculty positions. So this could be one of the big concerns. Many of my foreign friends in my graduate program are always in that situation. I know people with 6 years of post-doc after PhD in chemistry(physical chem) and nothing! One got a masters in statistics and just gave up trying to get a faculty position.

 

[ADN1226]

Thats strange, I've heard from many post-docs that organic chemists especially are in demand - compared to molecular biologists & biochemists where theres too many out there.

 

[cdpiano27]

I was not talking about organic chemsitry. I was talking about physical chemistry.

But I do have another Chinese friend in biochemistry who is struggling looking for a job after finishign PhD.

It is all about the subject area.

 

[DrugDealer]

I dropped out of the biochem PhD program at UC-Berkeley after 2.5 years because I decided it just wasn't what I wanted to do. I didn't even bother to stick around a few more months at least write up a master's thesis.

I worked odd jobs for a few years and brainstormed with my college buddy who had just graduated law school and did not want to be a lawyer. We decided on pharmacy, then spent 2 years researching the various programs, taking the remaining prereqs we needed at our respective local community colleges (I needed 7 courses, she needed 4 or 5) while working full-time, applying, etc. We just started our 2nd year of pharm school. I have no regrets about leaving Berkeley without a degree--it's usually a good topic of conversation. It definitely gave me a lot to talk about at interviews and in my essays, personal statements, etc.

 

[ZpackSux]

I dropped out of the biochem PhD program at UC-Berkeley after 2.5 years because I decided it just wasn't what I wanted to do. I didn't even bother to stick around a few more months at least write up a master's thesis.

I worked odd jobs for a few years and brainstormed with my college buddy who had just graduated law school and did not want to be a lawyer. We decided on pharmacy, then spent 2 years researching the various programs, taking the remaining prereqs we needed at our respective local community colleges (I needed 7 courses, she needed 4 or 5) while working full-time, applying, etc. We just started our 2nd year of pharm school. I have no regrets about leaving Berkeley without a degree--it's usually a good topic of conversation. It definitely gave me a lot to talk about at interviews and in my essays, personal statements, etc.

At least Cal has a good football team now!! 👍

 

[doubter101]

I dropped out of the biochem PhD program at UC-Berkeley after 2.5 years because I decided it just wasn't what I wanted to do. I didn't even bother to stick around a few more months at least write up a master's thesis.

I worked odd jobs for a few years and brainstormed with my college buddy who had just graduated law school and did not want to be a lawyer. We decided on pharmacy, then spent 2 years researching the various programs, taking the remaining prereqs we needed at our respective local community colleges (I needed 7 courses, she needed 4 or 5) while working full-time, applying, etc. We just started our 2nd year of pharm school. I have no regrets about leaving Berkeley without a degree--it's usually a good topic of conversation. It definitely gave me a lot to talk about at interviews and in my essays, personal statements, etc.

Thanks for the response. Was there ever any negative feedback from anyone from the admissions committees about not getting a degree in grad school? I have read in some posts that this may be the case, but they may have been talking more about med school. Did they look at your grad school grades or just undergrad and pre-requisites? Also, how was it going into the program a bit later than others? I worry about wasting time in grad school and then being like 25 before I can start something else if I end up quitting. were you able to take the necessary pre-requisite classes at a J.C. or did they have to be from a university. Sorry about all the questions, but all of this information is very helpful. I know I have just started my grad career, but I can't help but think about the stuff that was mentioned bycdpiano27. I'm in grad school mainly to advance my career. Sure I like chemistry, but it seems that the people here are here because they LOVE chemistry. Maybe they are ok with spending years in post doctoral hell. I'm more interested in something that I can go into, get my degree, and start working. I guess I just didn't realize it until I got here.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Z is intent on switching everything up to football. Not that I can blame him.

 

[doubter101]

OK - so talk....what are your doubts? What are your concerns? Do you have a mentor in your program? Did you make this choice yourself or did someone push you into it? Why did you make the choice you made???

Ask yourself some questions before you start to find another path...otherwise you'll be asking yourself these same questions, but in another program.

Good Luck!

My doubts and concerns are mainly about my reasons for being here and wasting time with something that may not make me happy. I applied to grad school so that I could get a better job, make more money, have more freedom, that kind of stuff. It just seems that achieving all of this through a PhD program is a bad idea. It will probably be 5+ years just to earn the PhD, add on a few more post doc years before I can get a job. I just don't know if it's worth if for something I'm not in love with.

To answer the other questions; I do not have a mentor yet and I definitely made this choice myself. As mentioned before, I am beginning to think that my reasons were not good ones at all to take on such an ambitions task. I really just didn't know what to do with myself. I didn't want to stay in my low paying dead end job as a lab technician for the rest of my life. I considered pharmacy school, and PhD programs. I chose this one. Financially it is easier, since my tuition is covered by the school. Also I had been doing a little bit of lab work as an undergrad then got a year of work experience in a lab. I guess I thought I should just keep going. Chemistry is what I was around so I think I just felt like that's what I should be doing. Now that I'm here and I think about doing it for the rest of my life, I just don't know if I see myself as a career researcher. Well if this elucidates anything please feel free to comment again. Your input is much appreciated.

 

[rxlynn]

My doubts and concerns are mainly about my reasons for being here and wasting time with something that may not make me happy. I applied to grad school so that I could get a better job, make more money, have more freedom, that kind of stuff. It just seems that achieving all of this through a PhD program is a bad idea. It will probably be 5+ years just to earn the PhD, add on a few more post doc years before I can get a job. I just don't know if it's worth if for something I'm not in love with.

To answer the other questions; I do not have a mentor yet and I definitely made this choice myself. As mentioned before, I am beginning to think that my reasons were not good ones at all to take on such an ambitions task. I really just didn't know what to do with myself. I didn't want to stay in my low paying dead end job as a lab technician for the rest of my life. I considered pharmacy school, and PhD programs. I chose this one. Financially it is easier, since my tuition is covered by the school. Also I had been doing a little bit of lab work as an undergrad then got a year of work experience in a lab. I guess I thought I should just keep going. Chemistry is what I was around so I think I just felt like that's what I should be doing. Now that I'm here and I think about doing it for the rest of my life, I just don't know if I see myself as a career researcher. Well if this elucidates anything please feel free to comment again. Your input is much appreciated.

Wow - I think I could have written that last paragraph at one point in my life. I was in the same position, although I did stay to get the masters. Then, I worked for awhile and did some really interesting things with my chemistry that did not require research. Then, through a combination of good luck and sheer circumstance, I got a job in a pharmacy and realized that it would combine all the things I really liked - teaching, science, contact with people, and fast pace.

Yes, you should be able to take any prereqs you need at CC, as long as they are classes at a level that would transfer to a 4 year college - I had two to take, and did them at my local technical college.

I actually couldn't quite decide if PharmCAS did or did not consider all my graduate chem work in the GPAs or not, but I didn't disagree with their GPA calc so I didn't ask any questions🙂 My grad work did come up in the interviews, but only in a way that I brought up. I had also done about 30 quarter hours towards another masters in environmental policy but did not finish the degree. Obviously, that was all on the application because it's on the transcripts, but nobody ever mentioned it to me at all while I was interviewing.

Don't worry about being a bit older - my entering class in pharmacy school this year ranges in age from 19-48.
One other comment about your first paragraph above - trust me, it's definitely not worth it if it's not something you love - pure science grad school is very very difficult with no clear end (you're done when your advisor says you are done) and pretty murky job prospects.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[rekesk]

When I was younger I had thought about doing a PhD because it appealed to me and seemed interesting. But as I grew up and matured, I've realized that it's not all its made out to be. It's a lot of hard work and you have to get lucky. Also there's a TON of PhDs out there and the positions for PHDs is very limited. (That being said, those PhD positions in industry and academia are really comfortable, not to mention they carry some prestige.) But then I learned about all of the other options that exist for the Pharm.D and now I'm excited over what I can do with that degree.

I say you start learning about pharmacy during this semester, right now. Work in a retail setting, talk to pharmacy students (find/hunt them down), shadow clinical pharmacist and see if it is something you want to do. If you find out by the end of the semester that it IS worth your time and effort, drop out and go for it, and don't look back. You will have to explain about why you dropped out, but if you have the maturity and responsibility to explain your action and motivations, you should be fine.

What's worse - continuing to get your MS which you may not care for, or quitting it to go for the Pharm.D?

My opinion is that a masters degree is increasingly viewed as useless in the science world. (This is not so with a field like engineering, where an MS can usually get a promotion, raise and potentially a management position.) It didn't used to be this way - I have met many chemists who have BS and MS level degrees who are laboratory directors or have administrative positions. However, they worked their way up there in a different time, and the paradigm is different in this day and age. The knock against the MS science degree holder is that they just don't have enough research experience or skills that you find with a Ph.D. Keep in mind, this is not a rule, and you will find exceptions to the rule here and there. That being said, as a master's holder myself, I'm glad I got my BS/MS, because I didn't know anything at the end of my BS degree requirements. I had simply taken the required classes.

good luck with this. another forum you may want to consult: http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_development/tools_resources/forum/home

 

[cdpiano27]

Wow, I am a PhD student right now but in a mathematics field (statistics) which is applied to the pharmaceutical industry. I am always having doubts every minute of the program. On the other hand, I have had some very bright moments as well, which have made me quite hopeful at times.

Here is the story:

In my department, there are many, many graduate students. When all is said and done, some will get $90,000 jobs in the pharm industry after graduation and others will get nothing but guess what? Post-docs! And what is the difference? It is the topic that you write about, however wait a minute. You cannot control who your advisor is going to be. There are many students scrambling for a few spots. And guess what, if you get assigned the environmental advisor, you will have an extremely hard time finding a job!

As for me, I already have my MS in May, and the course-work is exponentially harder for me this year. I am not sure what to do myself, even though internally I do want to try to stick it out, but at the same time I do not want to get a meaningless PhD either.

I interned at NIH over the summer, and I loved it. But I was told that just the intern position was so competitive (this is not in science, but in statistics) that I was extremely lucky. And everyone seemed to be so laid back and everything. I was feeling at such a high then, and now I feel at a great low, especially when I presented my project to the faculty at my school and they did not seem that interested at all! On top of it, I am struggling this year in the course work! And at the main poster session at the NIH clinical center, since everyone else was in science, they did not understand my project anyway!

I have always thought about pharmacy, but in a different perspective. My dream is to work in industry, and on many different types of projects. I love project work more than anything else. So, if I did go into pharmacy, I would want to go into drug information or pharmacokinetics, which would use my statistical background.

However, there are jobs with a masters in my field, but they are more like computer programming positions with SAS and R/S-plus.

 

[gdk420]

My doubts and concerns are mainly about my reasons for being here and wasting time with something that may not make me happy. I applied to grad school so that I could get a better job, make more money, have more freedom, that kind of stuff. It just seems that achieving all of this through a PhD program is a bad idea. It will probably be 5+ years just to earn the PhD, add on a few more post doc years before I can get a job. I just don't know if it's worth if for something I'm not in love with.

To answer the other questions; I do not have a mentor yet and I definitely made this choice myself. As mentioned before, I am beginning to think that my reasons were not good ones at all to take on such an ambitions task. I really just didn't know what to do with myself. I didn't want to stay in my low paying dead end job as a lab technician for the rest of my life. I considered pharmacy school, and PhD programs. I chose this one. Financially it is easier, since my tuition is covered by the school. Also I had been doing a little bit of lab work as an undergrad then got a year of work experience in a lab. I guess I thought I should just keep going. Chemistry is what I was around so I think I just felt like that's what I should be doing. Now that I'm here and I think about doing it for the rest of my life, I just don't know if I see myself as a career researcher. Well if this elucidates anything please feel free to comment again. Your input is much appreciated.

You are not the only one who switch from grad school to pharm school. I knew some people who did that. One concern that adcom will have is that, which you should really consider is, do you really want to become a pharmacist? Not wanting to do the PhD program, just like not wanting to become a doctor, simply is not a good enough reason to do put yourself through 4 more years of school and more than 100K in debt for pharm school. There are a million other things out there that you could explore.
Things that you should consider before you totally change your life around:
A.) grad school and professional school are two different type of education. Would you enjoy learning how to apply the science instead of doing the research behind it?
B.) There are other things you can do with a PhD outside of just doing research. You could work in medical affairs or with a PhD/Mba, work in a marketing department. Have you explore non laboratory options yet?
C.) Although money and job stability are good reasons for a lot of people to want to become a pharmacist, there are other jobs that would give u the similar pay and job stability, with a lot less work and time. Those two factors might be enough to get you to become a pharmacist, adcom is aware that these reasons alone are not enough to make a person stay a pharmacist. No amount of money can make a person stay at a job he/she hates. There are people in my class who have quit the profession simply because it was not the right choice for them and they were very unhappy.
D.) pharmacy profession, like any other professions, has it negative points as well. The constant understaffing, the angry patients, the liability, and etc... In the end, when you weigh all of the negatives vs all the positives that pharmacy has to offer, do you still want to become a pharmacist?

The biggest mistake a lot of people end up making is they know they hate what they do now, so they jump ship to do something else, usually that something else is something similar simply because it is safe, only to find out that they were just as miserable as they were before. My point is, don't exchange one white coat misery for another white coat misery. Make sure if you change career, it is something that you really want to do. So look into other careers that might be totally different instead of just science oriented profession. Oh by the way, if you are close to at least getting your masters, I say finish that. In the meantime, get a job in the retail setting or at a hospital to see if pharmacy is what you really love doing. If it is, then I say quit your grad program, if not, explore something else.

 

[gdk420]

My doubts and concerns are mainly about my reasons for being here and wasting time with something that may not make me happy. I applied to grad school so that I could get a better job, make more money, have more freedom, that kind of stuff. It just seems that achieving all of this through a PhD program is a bad idea. It will probably be 5+ years just to earn the PhD, add on a few more post doc years before I can get a job. I just don't know if it's worth if for something I'm not in love with.

To answer the other questions; I do not have a mentor yet and I definitely made this choice myself. As mentioned before, I am beginning to think that my reasons were not good ones at all to take on such an ambitions task. I really just didn't know what to do with myself. I didn't want to stay in my low paying dead end job as a lab technician for the rest of my life. I considered pharmacy school, and PhD programs. I chose this one. Financially it is easier, since my tuition is covered by the school. Also I had been doing a little bit of lab work as an undergrad then got a year of work experience in a lab. I guess I thought I should just keep going. Chemistry is what I was around so I think I just felt like that's what I should be doing. Now that I'm here and I think about doing it for the rest of my life, I just don't know if I see myself as a career researcher. Well if this elucidates anything please feel free to comment again. Your input is much appreciated.

Wow, I am a PhD student right now but in a mathematics field (statistics) which is applied to the pharmaceutical industry. I am always having doubts every minute of the program. On the other hand, I have had some very bright moments as well, which have made me quite hopeful at times.

Here is the story:

In my department, there are many, many graduate students. When all is said and done, some will get $90,000 jobs in the pharm industry after graduation and others will get nothing but guess what? Post-docs! And what is the difference? It is the topic that you write about, however wait a minute. You cannot control who your advisor is going to be. There are many students scrambling for a few spots. And guess what, if you get assigned the environmental advisor, you will have an extremely hard time finding a job!

As for me, I already have my MS in May, and the course-work is exponentially harder for me this year. I am not sure what to do myself, even though internally I do want to try to stick it out, but at the same time I do not want to get a meaningless PhD either.

I interned at NIH over the summer, and I loved it. But I was told that just the intern position was so competitive (this is not in science, but in statistics) that I was extremely lucky. And everyone seemed to be so laid back and everything. I was feeling at such a high then, and now I feel at a great low, especially when I presented my project to the faculty at my school and they did not seem that interested at all! On top of it, I am struggling this year in the course work! And at the main poster session at the NIH clinical center, since everyone else was in science, they did not understand my project anyway!

I have always thought about pharmacy, but in a different perspective. My dream is to work in industry, and on many different types of projects. I love project work more than anything else. So, if I did go into pharmacy, I would want to go into drug information or pharmacokinetics, which would use my statistical background.

However, there are jobs with a masters in my field, but they are more like computer programming positions with SAS and R/S-plus.

Pharmcoeconomics and biostatistics also use a decent amount of math.