Current MSTP students, how is your lifestyle?

[TurtleGnome]

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What is life like on the MSTP stipend? I'm getting excited to start but also preparing myself for the lifestyle 🙂

 

[eteshoe]

Depends on the COL in the area. For me, the money is enough and I'm typically good with my finances.

 

[Lucca]

Tagging on my own question: if you live in an expensive city, do you get subsidized housing?

 

[Datypicalpremed]

Perspective from a medium COL area just outside a major metropolitan city:

Pros: Unless you get addicted to crack or something, you'll have enough money to pay for the rent/mortgage, daily expenses and occasional luxuries dependent on the size of your stipend. Heck, I've even taken investing as a hobby...

Cons: All my peasant MD friends expect me to pay the tab

 

[moggat]

Can only speak for NYC, but I get subsidized housing, so my stipend more than covers my housing, food, and expenses with a little left over to save each month. Helps that MSTP programs also cover healthcare. TBF I was a federal employee before this working in one of the most expensive cities in the US, so in comparison my MSTP stipend makes me feel positively wealthy 😛

 

[Microbug]

Tagging on my own question: if you live in an expensive city, do you get subsidized housing?

depends on the city and depends on the school.

 

[StilgarMD]

Tagging on my own question: if you live in an expensive city, do you get subsidized housing?

Depends what you mean by Subsidized. at my program, we have subsidized housing insofar as if I paid the same rent elsewhere with the same # of Room mates, I'd have way less space, and likely have to pay for utilities, Internet, and a gym membership. So sort of. After hearing how commutes make people miserable (consistently, across many different groups), I'm just glad my commute is walkable, which if i were to live in non-student housing, likely wouldn't be the case.

 

[starfun21]

Hi there!! Great question. I think it would be really awesome to hear perspectives from MD/PhD students in very different cities.

I'd say the cost of living in my area is on the low side, and the stipend that my program provides is really generous. I currently rent a house completely to myself: 3 bed, 1 bath, ~1200 sq feet, 5-6 minute drive from my parking deck on campus. It's beyond perfect for me, and my neighbors are also great (in fact, they include 2 other students in my program - 1 who bought his house and 1 who rents hers). I also occasionally send money back home to support my family. I am still able to make ends meet and generally not worry about finances, which has been an incredible gift.

Overall in my program, I would say the majority of students actually buy their own house here, which is pretty unique. Some have families. The cost of living was a major reason why I applied to my program (plus the chance to rent/buy a house in a safe area, be close to campus but not directly on it, etc). I loved that I could be near a city and hospital system with great resources but also could easily drive away from campus to my own quiet little study spot!

 

[starfun21]

Also, I'd love to share some of my overall thoughts on lifestyle and MD/PhD programs... I think this will mostly be helpful for those considering applying, so PLEASE feel free to skip over this if it's not relevant to you haha! 🙂

When I have friends who want to apply MSTP, I strongly encourage them to consider their habits and the type of environment they really want. For me, I absolutely knew that my lifestyle at this phase in my life was NOT well-suited for the big, NYC-type city (and its expensive living lol). I definitely wanted to be able to live alone, to have a house rather than an apartment so that I would not have to worry about noise through the walls or ceilings, to have lots of personal space to retreat to after a long day in clinic, and to have my car with me. However, some of my friends are the polar opposite -- they absolutely love major cities, would rather rely on public transport than worry about driving (or, as I think the commenter above me suggests, might want/need to have a walkable commute!), and would prefer to have a few roommates to study and hang out with instead of living alone. In this case, it DEFINITELY makes sense for them to seek out programs in major cities.

I frequently tell my friends and any applicants who visit my campus that every program is going to have its pros/cons. The most important thing you can do when preparing to apply is to consider how important every pro/con (see below) is to you and whether or not you are willing to compromise on something you love. A program in a non-NYC smaller city will give you a much better cost of living and allow you to stretch out your dollar for a "nicer" living space, but some students might go stir-crazy at the lack of "fun" things to do in the area or miss the crowds, the energy, etc.

Here are some of those things that I think are important to consider:
-How much you want to be in a big city
-Cost
-Resources
-Family nearby?
-House/apartment/roommates
-Diversity in the city, recreation, etc.

The type of situation that can lead to very dangerous consequences, in my experience, is when applicants like me with a clear preference for smaller-city life still apply to programs in major cities without realizing that they will almost certainly have to compromise. It seems like most programs provide a stipend that should allow you to stay afloat, but in larger cities it might be the case that you MUST live with lots of roommates or in very small quarters in order to do so... and if you aren't aware of this and you instead still try to live a lifestyle that isn't such a good fit, it will be hard to make ends meet or to feel comfortable.

To clarify, I do not at all mean to say that students like me should never apply to programs in larger areas when awesome opportunities to arise. I just think it's important to really balance the prestige of the program with the things you might feel like you are "giving up" in your lifestyle, and then just make sure that choice is something that you will consider worth it for you (and again, it really can be!).

I wanted to go on this mini-tangent because I think lifestyle during the MSTP is just so important for your mental health. The MD/PhD is already a super tough road, and I have found that having an idea lifestyle and living situation for your preferences, or at least always knowing that you made the right choice in giving up a few things to join a program that you are over the moon about, can make all of the difference in terms of helping you feel safe and really enjoy what you're doing. Please, friends, take care of yourselves... fingers crossed that you all find situations where you can thrive!

 

[randomguyfromluna]

Can anyone comment if stipend from UCSF enough to cover living expenses ? Really worried about housing costs.

 

[Lucca]

Can anyone comment if stipend from UCSF enough to cover living expenses ? Really worried about housing costs.

Probably a better Q for current students there. You could find people to email through their website or wait for second look.

 

[Future MD/PhD]

I feel like no MSTP student that I have ever met has said that it's been hard to make ends meet. Even the NYC and SF/Palo Alto students. It's just a matter of lifestyle (echoing @starfun21). So, if you want to live alone, then it's probably going to be difficult (if not impossible without outside help) to do so in a place like SF or NYC. You can always ask a current student for reference like @Lucca suggested.

Does anyone think it's realistic to budget for ones future lifestyle based on the stipend that's offered? For example, I want to live alone but I also want to live in a big city. I've spent some time looking at a stipend offered in Chicago (~32,000) and a stipend offered in NYC (~38,000), then calculating the type of apartment I can afford within that budget. Based on the living expenses budget I've worked with for the past 5 years, I can afford to live in a $1,000 apartment by myself in Chicago, and a $1,500 apartment in NYC (both of which options I've found on apartments.com). I'd still manage to save ~10% of my salary, even though my rent would be ~40-50% of my salary.

Lastly, does anyone think that the amount of free-time a student enjoys varies from program to program? Or is it more variable from person to person? I know it probably varies depending on the year (1-2 vs 3-6, vs 7-8), but I was just curious.

 

[TurtleGnome]

I’ve certainly been doing apartment hunting/parking/food & necessities calculations. But don’t forget about taxes. We pay income tax, from what I understand.

 

[Future MD/PhD]

I’ve certainly been doing apartment hunting/parking/food & necessities calculations. But don’t forget about taxes. We pay income tax, from what I understand.

Good to know. I've never had an income before...

 

[Reckoner]

I feel like no MSTP student that I have ever met has said that it's been hard to make ends meet. Even the NYC and SF/Palo Alto students. It's just a matter of lifestyle (echoing @starfun21). So, if you want to live alone, then it's probably going to be difficult (if not impossible without outside help) to do so in a place like SF or NYC. You can always ask a current student for reference like @Lucca suggested.

Does anyone think it's realistic to budget for ones future lifestyle based on the stipend that's offered? For example, I want to live alone but I also want to live in a big city. I've spent some time looking at a stipend offered in Chicago (~32,000) and a stipend offered in NYC (~38,000), then calculating the type of apartment I can afford within that budget. Based on the living expenses budget I've worked with for the past 5 years, I can afford to live in a $1,000 apartment by myself in Chicago, and a $1,500 apartment in NYC (both of which options I've found on apartments.com). I'd still manage to save ~10% of my salary, even though my rent would be ~40-50% of my salary.

Lastly, does anyone think that the amount of free-time a student enjoys varies from program to program? Or is it more variable from person to person? I know it probably varies depending on the year (1-2 vs 3-6, vs 7-8), but I was just curious.

You can definitely find apartments in those cities within your range, but 10% of your salary doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room. The department I'm in pays for conferences through reimbursements. If I go to an expensive conference like a GRC or a Cold Spring Harbor meeting, I might be out $2,000 until they get around to paying me back. That's not always easy to do on my stipend, living in a very high COL city

Free time totally varies from person to person, and can change drastically from year to year. I have noticed that in my city working late seems to be the norm across industries, including science. Conversations with classmates and friends at other universities here seem to confirm this

 

[Future MD/PhD]

You can definitely find apartments in those cities within your range, but 10% of your salary doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room.

Ok, let's recalculate and take the Chicago situation for example:
~$32,000 becomes ~$25,000 after tax (modestly speaking, based on this tax calculator). If I rent an apartment that's $1,000/month, then that becomes $12,000/year on rent. That means that I have $13,000/year for living expenses, or a little over $1,000/month. I've lived in DC on $1,000/month for living expenses for years while also saving at least $400/month. So let's say I budget $600/month for groceries and $400/month for savings. That means ~50% goes to rent, ~30% goes to food/life, and ~20% goes to savings. If I wanted to go to a conference, I would have at least $7,000 in savings (or $9,600 if I was really good) by the start of my third year to pay for whatever I need to pay for. Given, I think you would have to be disciplined to live like this and not dip into your savings whenever you want to buy something expensive, but since we're all hardworking pre-meds, we could probably gauge if we could live like this or not.

Also, would you care to share which city you live in? I personally wouldn't try this in SF or Palo Alto, but perhaps you live in NYC and think that my gameplan is wishful thinking.

 

[Reckoner]

Ok, let's recalculate and take the Chicago situation for example:
~$32,000 becomes ~$25,000 after tax (modestly speaking, based on this tax calculator). If I rent an apartment that's $1,000/month, then that becomes $12,000/year on rent. That means that I have $13,000/year for living expenses, or a little over $1,000/month. I've lived in DC on $1,000/month for living expenses for years while also saving at least $400/month. So let's say I budget $600/month for groceries and $400/month for savings. That means ~50% goes to rent, ~30% goes to food/life, and ~20% goes to savings. If I wanted to go to a conference, I would have at least $7,000 in savings (or $9,600 if I was really good) by the start of my third year to pay for whatever I need to pay for. Given, I think you would have to be disciplined to live like this and not dip into your savings whenever you want to buy something expensive, but since we're all hardworking pre-meds, we could probably gauge if we could live like this or not.

Also, would you care to share which city you live in? I personally wouldn't try this in SF or Palo Alto, but perhaps you live in NYC and think that my gameplan is wishful thinking.

Not wishful thinking, but it's going to take discipline. I'm in NYC. You can definitely find rents in that range, but you might need to live in Brooklyn or Queens and a monthly subway pass is not terribly cheap. Things like groceries also tend to be a bit more expensive here than in cities like DC, so you'll need to account for that in your budget. You could always start out in student housing, save some money, and try to find a place once you're here

 

[nonamesleft]

Ok, let's recalculate and take the Chicago situation for example:
~$32,000 becomes ~$25,000 after tax (modestly speaking, based on this tax calculator). If I rent an apartment that's $1,000/month, then that becomes $12,000/year on rent. That means that I have $13,000/year for living expenses, or a little over $1,000/month. I've lived in DC on $1,000/month for living expenses for years while also saving at least $400/month. So let's say I budget $600/month for groceries and $400/month for savings. That means ~50% goes to rent, ~30% goes to food/life, and ~20% goes to savings. If I wanted to go to a conference, I would have at least $7,000 in savings (or $9,600 if I was really good) by the start of my third year to pay for whatever I need to pay for. Given, I think you would have to be disciplined to live like this and not dip into your savings whenever you want to buy something expensive, but since we're all hardworking pre-meds, we could probably gauge if we could live like this or not.

Also, would you care to share which city you live in? I personally wouldn't try this in SF or Palo Alto, but perhaps you live in NYC and think that my gameplan is wishful thinking.

what about stuff like insurance (car/health if your school doesn't cover it/home), parking, student/class fees? I'm doing ok on our stipend, and I think I'll have enough for residency apps stuff without taking out a loan, but I'm not building a good savings account.

 

[randomguyfromluna]

So, what should the game plan be for someone in SF on a 38k stipend (31K after taxes) ? It is going to be hard i think

 

[Sage_Growth]

So, what should the game plan be for someone in SF on a 38k stipend (31K after taxes) ? It is going to be hard i think

Rent in the Inner Sunset district runs for roughly $1500/month for a room in a house with other roommates. So that comes out to about half your stipend per month after utilities. It's certainly doable. But if you want to live in a 1BR 1BA on your own you may need some external support.

UCSF offers subsidized student housing near Parnassus and Mission Bay but iirc there is a maximum of two years you can live there.

 

[sooleiool]

what about stuff like insurance (car/health if your school doesn't cover it/home), parking, student/class fees? I'm doing ok on our stipend, and I think I'll have enough for residency apps stuff without taking out a loan, but I'm not building a good savings account.

My major monthly expenses include rent (30% of my gross income), utilities and internet, a car lease, full coverage auto insurance, renter's insurance, a cell phone plan, and care (i.e. food and the yearly vaccine/check-up) for two small pets. Most of this is split with a partner, and after tax season, I do not end up saving much money. I would say we entertain ourselves more at home, but we do occasionally go out. We could probably plan grocery expenses better, but sometimes that's hard when you're busy students. Health insurance is subsidized by our graduate program and taxed.

Whether or not you can accumulate significant savings is going to depend on a lot of factors. In my experience, I think many of us rely on our parents for some expenses (i.e. auto insurance, staying on their cell phone plan). You really have to talk to your peers about this. For instance, current students might boast about the affordability of housing, and how many purchase a home for their ~8 years, but I know all of my fellow peers who did purchase a home had significant aid from their parents (i.e. their parents purchased the home, or contribute(d) via down payment, mortgage, etc.). I'm fortunate to have parents who are able and willing, so I received a little help when we leased our new car; the agreement was I pay it back when I'm an MD/PhD with an actual salary and cash flow. It's something that may not be appropriate to outright ask of students, but it is something worth noting if you're an applicant. I know many students who are trying to pay off undergraduate loans as well. From what I gauge, those who are completely independent are not able to accumulate a significant amount of savings, unless the student is extremely diligent with their expenses and lives in an affordable area. I don't spend more than I make, but I also don't keep a detailed worksheet of how much I spend in groceries per month. I don't regret having pets, but it does add up over time. A lot of it is circumstantial, and I think you just have to realize that over 8 years, life will happen and unexpected things occur. Do the best you can, be smart with your money, and know that you're living pretty okay compared to your medical student peers.

 

[Future MD/PhD]

This may or may not be helpful, but for anyone who wants to get a handle on their finances, I strongly recommend taking this free course on coursera.org. It's called Financial Planning For Young Adults. I'm about halfway through, and even though I see myself as being pretty good with money, I still learned a lot of great things from these short lectures. It helped me put my savings goals in the proper perspective and get clear about saving for retirement. Also, thank you @sooleiool for addressing the fact that not everyone is coming into this situation on the same financial footing (some of us have student loans, some of us have outside financial support, etc). I don't think it negates the purpose of this thread, but sheds much needed light on the nuances hidden in this conversation.