because your numbers don't jive(or is it jibe? and why can I never remember?) with reality
Oh sweet irony. The numbers were supplied by
you. I just did the calculations to show you were wrong. Re-read your post, man. You stated folks would have no excuse for student loans if they worked 20 hours/week during the year and 30 hours/week during summer making $1 above minimum wage excluding grants and all the rest. That reality came from
you. You are really giving the image of the disgruntled kid in short pants moving the goal posts when his shots don't go where they want...
It's jibe, by the way. I always have to stop and think about that one before I type it too...
for example you mention that those numbers exclude income tax.
No, I didn't. Re-read. I said these numbers exclude taxes. She will not be paying income tax (though I believe minimum is still going to be about 10% unless that's changed), but she still will need to pay SS, medicare, and the like. If someone is paid using a valid SSN, they do not take home all of their salary without paying the government.
People who work and make those sorts of salaries have a tremendously negative tax burden....just taking EITC and the federal education tax credit, both of which your hypothetical poor student would be eligible for, tacks on 4k or so annually to to the mix.
No, even with tax credits it reduces their
tax burden. It doesn't increase their
income. So even when you exclude all taxes and this person essentially gets paid cash (the best case scenario for take home), this person makes $138/month after paying tuition. You proposed this was enough to live on and avoid taking loans. This is wrong.
And that's not even going into all the other possibilities....the chance that this person doesn't qualify for pell grants, any state grants based on low income, have any state education programs they are eligible for, etc is very very low.
We are not going into the "other possibilities" because you stated that even
without the other possibilities, someone would have no excuse to get through undergrad with debt if they were willing to work 20 hours during the school year, 30 hours over summer, making a buck an hour above minimum wage. Re-read your post. You supplied this scenario and the conditions in its entirety and now that you are seeing you don't like the results, you are shifting the scenario rather than acknowledge that maybe your assumption wasn't right. Your inability to incorporate new evidence into your (mis)understanding of something is why when you make claims to the contrary with folks, there is a credibility issue.
By the way, since you give the impression of someone who isn't real familiar with the financial aid system, a pell grant maxes out at $5,600/year. This still would not reduce the cost enough for the student above to attend without taking loans (unless you feel that $600/month is enough for rent, food, car, insurance, books, etc.). And the pell grant eligibility isn't determined based on her income, it's done based on her parents income. It's great your mom and dad were able to pay for your college, not every student has that option, even if they earn more than the poverty level. Though I acknowledge you likely see this as an "excuse."
Nuff said, evidence to the contrary is there. You are unable/unwilling to accept and would prefer to remain right than actually learn a little bit about a segment of our population that is probably much larger than you realize. Understood. I've done my best to shed an alternate colored light, but my impression is that the mind is closed tighter than a kettle drum. I'll leave you to it.
