Curriculum & USMLE

[sunshine02]

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For current med students, what type of curriculum (PBL, lecture, integrated, etc) do you find most conducive to studying for the USMLE? I heard that sometimes the curriculum type can play a role and would like to hear what current students think.

 

[FalconSlice]

Going to a school that, in the past several years, has undergone a severe curriculum overhaul (and knowing the average Step 1 scores pre and post-new curriculum) and knowing of some other schools that have done the same, I say that the Step 1 scores are more dependent on the student (whether he/she did well in the first 2 years of school, intelligence, hardwork, etc.) rather than any type of curriculum (with the correct assumption that all med schools in the US learn the same material and relatively same amount of said material)

Whether you really wanted to know about Step 1 scores and their correlations with curriculum structure/type or whether you actually just wanted to know what type of curriculum is more conducive for Step 1 studying are two rather different circumstances. Which one do you mean? If it is the former, then the above answer is what I would suggest you look at. If it is the latter you ask, I must say the answer is irrelevant and of no use since what actually matters is your Step 1 score (and how much you learn) and not whether a curriculum is more or less conducive to Step 1 studying.

Also, might I add, the first 2 years of med school is the most important part of preparing for Step 1 and not just your "own time" studying during the curriculum.

 

[sunshine02]

Going to a school that, in the past several years, has undergone a severe curriculum overhaul (and knowing the average Step 1 scores pre and post-new curriculum) and knowing of some other schools that have done the same, I say that the Step 1 scores are more dependent on the student (whether he/she did well in the first 2 years of school, intelligence, hardwork, etc.) rather than any type of curriculum (with the correct assumption that all med schools in the US learn the same material and relatively same amount of said material)

Whether you really wanted to know about Step 1 scores and their correlations with curriculum structure/type or whether you actually just wanted to know what type of curriculum is more conducive for Step 1 studying are two rather different circumstances. Which one do you mean? If it is the former, then the above answer is what I would suggest you look at. If it is the latter you ask, I must say the answer is irrelevant and of no use since what actually matters is your Step 1 score (and how much you learn) and not whether a curriculum is more or less conducive to Step 1 studying.

Also, might I add, the first 2 years of med school is the most important part of preparing for Step 1 and not just your "own time" studying during the curriculum.

I just wanted to know what type of curriculum is more conducive for Step 1 studying. Thanks for your input though!

Also, do you know what the integrated curriculum is? I keep hearing about that on med school websites but don't really know what that is.
Regarding PBL, is that just where the lectures are listened to through podcasts before class and then students come to class and do problems/case studies together?

Thanks!

 

[FalconSlice]

All curriculum types are conducive for individual Step 1 studying but the extent to which varies. Generally, the less required classes (as in classes you have to attend and be physically present) there are in the curriculum, the more free time, in general, you have.

The term "integrated" curriculum gets thrown around way too much. It just means on top of the medicine and science, you are also learning epidemiology, ethics, etc.

As for PBL, the way it usually works is that you meet in small groups (ca. 6-8 people) where you read cases inspired by true patient events and you decide as a group what important learning points are necessary to understand the case as a whole. Then, each person is responsible for researching/learning a specific goal and presenting it to the rest of the group. This way, you build teamwork, presentation, researching and diagnostic skills.

 

[Amygdarya]

The term "integrated" curriculum gets thrown around way too much. It just means on top of the medicine and science, you are also learning epidemiology, ethics, etc.

Nope. "Integrated" normally stands for integrated normal physiology and pathophysiology, as in schools that teach in integrated organ blocks as opposed to going through normal physiology in the first year and then going through pathophysiology in the second. Everyone gets a dose of ethics and epi regardless of the curriculum.
I personally like integrated curriculum because it makes mechanisms easier to understand and remember and reduces redundancy, but honestly, it's a matter of personal preference.

Sunshine02, the simple reason nobody is giving you a straight answer is because there is no straight answer. Most, if not all, schools will adequately prepare you for Steps - and by "adequately" I mean that it's ultimately up to you to prepare for Steps. No curriculum is better or worse. What you may want to look into is how much time schools allow for Step 1 prep (5-6 weeks is considered good), whether test questions are in Step-like format and whether the school administers NBME exams on top of the regular exams (for the students to get used to the question format), whether the school offers any additional Step prep help. But ultimately it's not about school, its about you; considering that most students use the same prep materials, your school doesn't matter at all.

 

[Amygdarya]

As for PBL, true flipped classroom curricula (where you watch videos at home and only do team-based learning in class) are pretty rare; majority of schools that use PBL have regular lectures as well - in fact, PBL doesn't take all that much classroom time (typically, 2-3 1.5 hour sessions a week and maybe not even every week). You should ask if the school has lectures, and the answer will give you a good idea what kind of curriculum it is.

 

[FalconSlice]

Nope. "Integrated" normally stands for integrated normal physiology and pathophysiology, as in schools that teach in integrated organ blocks as opposed to going through normal physiology in the first year and then going through pathophysiology in the second.

Interesting. At our school, we call that "organ system blocks" not "integrated." For example all the physiology, pathology, pharm, micro, embryo, etc. for that organ system for 4-6 weeks then on the the other organ system. "Integrated" also could mean the early clinical experience on top of all of that stuff that schools are pushing these days, thus, why it shouldn't be thrown around as much as it is. It's a vague and variable semantics issue, I suppose.

 

[Psai]

Agree with falconslice, the less amount of required stuff from your school the better. Powerpoint slides should guide you to what you need to know but you need to build that knowledge base yourself. PBL is crap, why should you learn from your clueless classmates?

 

[Amygdarya]

Well, yes, I guess people use the word differently. The most common connext I've heard it used is in "integrated normal and abnormal". It's also a clearcut way to distinguish between "traditional" (1 year normal, 1 year abnormal) and newer ("integrated", organ blocks) curricula. On the other hand, most traditional and newer curricula have some amount of early clinical exposure, ethics and epi mixed in now.

 

[chronicidal]

Step 1 scores are more dependent on the student (whether he/she did well in the first 2 years of school, intelligence, hardwork, etc.) rather than any type of curriculum (with the correct assumption that all med schools in the US learn the same material and relatively same amount of said material)

So you're saying, Step 1 scores depend on the student more than the curriculum.

the first 2 years of med school is the most important part of preparing for Step 1 and not just your "own time" studying during the curriculum.

So you're saying, the most important part of Step 1 preparation is the preclinical curriculum, not students' independent studying.

Can you reconcile these seemingly contradictory statements?

 

[FalconSlice]

Step 1 scores depend on the student more than the curriculum.



The most important part of Step 1 preparation is the preclinical curriculum, not students' independent studying.

Can you reconcile these seemingly contradictory statements?

Sure: if student tries his/her best on the preclinical curriculum instead of blowing it off and studying by their own schedule of Step 1 resources, that is the best overall/general preparation for Step 1. To the extent this happens is the determination, drive, etc. is at the student's individual discretion.

 

[operaman]

Sure: if student tries his/her best on the preclinical curriculum instead of blowing it off and studying by their own schedule of Step 1 resources, that is the best overall/general preparation for Step 1. To the extent this happens is the determination, drive, etc. is at the student's individual discretion.

This. Agree 100%.

On the integrated vs organ systems vs whatever thing: there is no set definition for any of these terms, so applicants should be sure to ask lots of questions and clarify what individual schools mean by these. In general, the only unifying theme behind these terms is that the curriculum is NOT the old traditional subject based (ie. 5-6 weeks of anatomy, followed by 6 weeks of physiology, then 4 weeks of biochemistry, etc.). How exactly they integrate can vary between schools.

As I'm interviewing for residency now and often get asked what I'm looking for in a program, I think back to pre-med and how many *****ic questions I had that had zero impact on my education (ie. how many students per cadaver in anatomy, clinical exposure in first 2 years, etc.). Asking detailed questions about the curriculum would be good questions, though I wonder if I would have had the foresight and self knowledge at the time to make use of the information.

If I personally had to do it over again, things I would consider important about M1/M2 in relation to USMLE:

1) How many hours per day/week of absolutely mandatory attendance sessions? Less is better. Gives you flexibility if class isn't your thing.
2) Traditional lectures > anything that ends with "-based learning"
3) Would prefer 2 years vs 1.5 years preclinical schedule. Just personal preference. YMMV.
4) Integration is better, but would prefer 1 year normal, 1 years abnormal. For USMLE, the bulk is abnormal and I would want this freshest in my mind
5) Time available for dedicated boards study
6) How much do class exams approximate boards? (ie. # questions, time per question, style of questions, etc.).
7) How does the faculty ensure that class questions are well written and without technical flaws?
8) Are students able to review/challenge poor questions?
9) Detailed breakdown of typical class/exam schedules. Any dedicated study periods? Number of lecture hours per exam? I would prefer fewer but bigger exams with some review time built in as this approximates boards and forces some longer term retention.
10) Options for extending Step 1 prep time if needed?

I'm sure there are more, but these are what come to mind first.

 

[FalconSlice]

This. Agree 100%.

On the integrated vs organ systems vs whatever thing: there is no set definition for any of these terms, so applicants should be sure to ask lots of questions and clarify what individual schools mean by these. In general, the only unifying theme behind these terms is that the curriculum is NOT the old traditional subject based (ie. 5-6 weeks of anatomy, followed by 6 weeks of physiology, then 4 weeks of biochemistry, etc.). How exactly they integrate can vary between schools.

As I'm interviewing for residency now and often get asked what I'm looking for in a program, I think back to pre-med and how many *****ic questions I had that had zero impact on my education (ie. how many students per cadaver in anatomy, clinical exposure in first 2 years, etc.). Asking detailed questions about the curriculum would be good questions, though I wonder if I would have had the foresight and self knowledge at the time to make use of the information.

If I personally had to do it over again, things I would consider important about M1/M2 in relation to USMLE:

1) How many hours per day/week of absolutely mandatory attendance sessions? Less is better. Gives you flexibility if class isn't your thing.
2) Traditional lectures > anything that ends with "-based learning"
3) Would prefer 2 years vs 1.5 years preclinical schedule. Just personal preference. YMMV.
4) Integration is better, but would prefer 1 year normal, 1 years abnormal. For USMLE, the bulk is abnormal and I would want this freshest in my mind
5) Time available for dedicated boards study
6) How much do class exams approximate boards? (ie. # questions, time per question, style of questions, etc.).
7) How does the faculty ensure that class questions are well written and without technical flaws?
8) Are students able to review/challenge poor questions?
9) Detailed breakdown of typical class/exam schedules. Any dedicated study periods? Number of lecture hours per exam? I would prefer fewer but bigger exams with some review time built in as this approximates boards and forces some longer term retention.
10) Options for extending Step 1 prep time if needed?

I'm sure there are more, but these are what come to mind first.

For all of the premeds reading this thread, as mentioned before, these are some key questions that should at least pass your mind when you are applying, researching and applying to schools. Also, the thread I am linking below by @Frazier is a good start into the world of "what preclinical year is actually like after the nonsense of interview pitches."

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...se-the-experiences-thoughts-of-a-ms2.1106958/

I'll go ahead and paste this thread into the pre-all forums as well. Maybe it'll be helpful there too...

 

[cs24]

This. Agree 100%.

On the integrated vs organ systems vs whatever thing: there is no set definition for any of these terms, so applicants should be sure to ask lots of questions and clarify what individual schools mean by these. In general, the only unifying theme behind these terms is that the curriculum is NOT the old traditional subject based (ie. 5-6 weeks of anatomy, followed by 6 weeks of physiology, then 4 weeks of biochemistry, etc.). How exactly they integrate can vary between schools.

As I'm interviewing for residency now and often get asked what I'm looking for in a program, I think back to pre-med and how many *****ic questions I had that had zero impact on my education (ie. how many students per cadaver in anatomy, clinical exposure in first 2 years, etc.). Asking detailed questions about the curriculum would be good questions, though I wonder if I would have had the foresight and self knowledge at the time to make use of the information.

If I personally had to do it over again, things I would consider important about M1/M2 in relation to USMLE:

1) How many hours per day/week of absolutely mandatory attendance sessions? Less is better. Gives you flexibility if class isn't your thing.
2) Traditional lectures > anything that ends with "-based learning"
3) Would prefer 2 years vs 1.5 years preclinical schedule. Just personal preference. YMMV.
4) Integration is better, but would prefer 1 year normal, 1 years abnormal. For USMLE, the bulk is abnormal and I would want this freshest in my mind
5) Time available for dedicated boards study
6) How much do class exams approximate boards? (ie. # questions, time per question, style of questions, etc.).
7) How does the faculty ensure that class questions are well written and without technical flaws?
8) Are students able to review/challenge poor questions?
9) Detailed breakdown of typical class/exam schedules. Any dedicated study periods? Number of lecture hours per exam? I would prefer fewer but bigger exams with some review time built in as this approximates boards and forces some longer term retention.
10) Options for extending Step 1 prep time if needed?

I'm sure there are more, but these are what come to mind first.

👍

Great post as usual by operaman.

I also think back to being a premed, and all the stupid things I thought were important at the time. I got lucky with my school choice and am certainly happy with my decision, but I would have made a much more informed decision if I could advise myself now about what is important. I guess that's what threads like this are for, assuming the premeds look at them at all. When I get closer to residency, I plan on asking the forum residents a lot of questions about what to look for in a residency. Live and learn.

 

[notbobtrustme]

operaman been killin it lately.

 

[jw3600]

operaman been killin it lately.

Always.

 

[operaman]

So you're saying that it's better to just try hard at the preclinical stuff, and that is the best way to prep in M1/M2? I'm not sure how this relates to flexible class schedules then. And I agree with cs24 your posts have been very helpful

Yeah, sorry, I sorta double responded there. The list of things(flex schedules, et al) was more related to the previous posts in the thread.

But I do agree wholeheartedly that a strong effort with M1/M2 classes is the best Step 1 prep you can do. Obviously you want to incorporate tried and true review sources as well, but learning the material the first time is very important. I think this point gets lost sometimes amid discussions about other great resources.

 

[repititionition]

This. Agree 100%.

On the integrated vs organ systems vs whatever thing: there is no set definition for any of these terms, so applicants should be sure to ask lots of questions and clarify what individual schools mean by these. In general, the only unifying theme behind these terms is that the curriculum is NOT the old traditional subject based (ie. 5-6 weeks of anatomy, followed by 6 weeks of physiology, then 4 weeks of biochemistry, etc.). How exactly they integrate can vary between schools.

As I'm interviewing for residency now and often get asked what I'm looking for in a program, I think back to pre-med and how many *****ic questions I had that had zero impact on my education (ie. how many students per cadaver in anatomy, clinical exposure in first 2 years, etc.). Asking detailed questions about the curriculum would be good questions, though I wonder if I would have had the foresight and self knowledge at the time to make use of the information.

If I personally had to do it over again, things I would consider important about M1/M2 in relation to USMLE:

1) How many hours per day/week of absolutely mandatory attendance sessions? Less is better. Gives you flexibility if class isn't your thing.
2) Traditional lectures > anything that ends with "-based learning"
3) Would prefer 2 years vs 1.5 years preclinical schedule. Just personal preference. YMMV.
4) Integration is better, but would prefer 1 year normal, 1 years abnormal. For USMLE, the bulk is abnormal and I would want this freshest in my mind
5) Time available for dedicated boards study
6) How much do class exams approximate boards? (ie. # questions, time per question, style of questions, etc.).
7) How does the faculty ensure that class questions are well written and without technical flaws?
8) Are students able to review/challenge poor questions?
9) Detailed breakdown of typical class/exam schedules. Any dedicated study periods? Number of lecture hours per exam? I would prefer fewer but bigger exams with some review time built in as this approximates boards and forces some longer term retention.
10) Options for extending Step 1 prep time if needed?

I'm sure there are more, but these are what come to mind first.

Now what I'd like to see are your list of important/relevant residency questions...

 

[operaman]

Now what I'd like to see are your list of important/relevant residency questions...

Well, if you can give me about 5 years...

 

[cs24]

Now what I'd like to see are your list of important/relevant residency questions...

Found this in another thread somewhere on SDN

https://www.aamc.org/download/77936/data/residencyquestions.pdf

seems like a good start