Customized MSTP

[stillsmilin]

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it seems like it will be really hard to find a med school that has the med curriculum that you want to learn in, with phd programs doing research that you want to do, all in the place that you want to live. i was wondering if it's possible to go to med school somewhere and then take a break after the first two yrs and do the phd at a different school, and then return for the last two yrs of med school. alternatively, enter mstp at a school and after the first two yrs, break for the phd, but do the phd elsewhere, then return for med school.

is this frowned upon by the individual schools? is it hard to get funding?

as an added thought, if the govt is funding the mstp program, the govt shouldnt have a stake in whether or not all of your funds are going to one school . . . so why is the mstp set up such that everything is done at one school?

 

[fyli260]

it seems like it will be really hard to find a med school that has the med curriculum that you want to learn in, with phd programs doing research that you want to do, all in the place that you want to live. i was wondering if it's possible to go to med school somewhere and then take a break after the first two yrs and do the phd at a different school, and then return for the last two yrs of med school. alternatively, enter mstp at a school and after the first two yrs, break for the phd, but do the phd elsewhere, then return for med school.

is this frowned upon by the individual schools? is it hard to get funding?

as an added thought, if the govt is funding the mstp program, the govt shouldnt have a stake in whether or not all of your funds are going to one school . . . so why is the mstp set up such that everything is done at one school?

This purpose of MSTP is to integrate the MD and PhD training. If you really want to do the MD and PhD at different places, you might as well do the MD and PhD separately (i.e. do PhD first and then go and do the MD).

 

[freddytn]

There are a few programs out there that are actually programs between different institutions. It won't let you out of the city but for example there is Cornell's Tri-Institutional Program (Sloan Kettering, Cornell, and Rockefeller), there is U. of Pittsburgh & Carnegie Mellon U, there is also the Harvard - MIT program, also the Baylor College of Medicine & Rice University. These are the ones I know about off of the top of my head. There are is also one at one of the california schools which I can't remember right now (maybe Berkeley & someone else??). I'm sure there are a few others out there that I'm missing.

Of course the other option is to do them completely separately. Like fyli260 suggested. Doing it all in the same proximity helps tremendously in integrating the two together. It also does help a lot to have everything in one place especially a support structure by the individual program and your classmates since this is a long process.

The reason that the MSTP is set up this way is that each of these individual schools have to apply to the NIH for this funding which is competitive like any other institutional training grants offered by the NIH. Your statement is analogous to saying well NSF funds all of these REU programs, if i get into one why can't I go work any of the other REU programs. Also the other reason is that the MSTP only partly funds these programs. I have heard that the actual funds from the NIH through MSTP only make up as little as 25-50% of the entire budget. A large share of the costs are shouldered by the individual medical schools, graduate schools, and for those schools that are lucky private endowments & foundations.

 

[tedrik]

There are is also one at one of the california schools which I can't remember right now (maybe Berkeley & someone else??). I'm sure there are a few others out there that I'm missing.

I think that freddytn was talking about the UCLA-Caltech and the USC-Caltech programs. UCSD also has extensive collaborations with a few institutions in La Jolla, including the Salk Institute and Scripps.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

It is generally rare for one to do the PhD at an outside institution apart from the MD training. At our school, the only time this happens is when the PI moves from Michigan to a different state and the student is so far along his/her research that he/she moves with the PI; however, at the conclusion of the PhD training, he/she comes back to the home institution.

On the other hand, generally they don't allow you to randomly jump to another institution for the PhD. For instance, if I did my M1 and M2 years in Ann Arbor and then wanted to work with Tom Sudhof at UT-Southwestern (random example), that would be a no-go. This is basically for logistical reasons. It would be logitically difficult to be in your school's Biochemistry department, for example, but work in a biochem lab at that other institution (with class requirements and all). Thesis committees would be hard to organize and committee meetings would difficult to organize. Funding is also an issue. So in general, MSTP requirements are usually satisfied at the home institution.

 

[stillsmilin]

This is basically for logistical reasons. It would be logitically difficult to be in your school's Biochemistry department, for example, but work in a biochem lab at that other institution (with class requirements and all). Thesis committees would be hard to organize and committee meetings would difficult to organize. Funding is also an issue. So in general, MSTP requirements are usually satisfied at the home institution.

thanks to everyone for the advice. would there be a way to take a leave of absence from your med school after the first two yrs and then do the entire phd, including the coursework, at another institution? in other words, when you're admitted to an mstp, are you commiting to a phd in general, or to a phd specifically at their school/affiliated school? would jumping institutions cause you to lose the mstp stipend?

 

[ears]

thanks to everyone for the advice. would there be a way to take a leave of absence from your med school after the first two yrs and then do the entire phd, including the coursework, at another institution? in other words, when you're admitted to an mstp, are you commiting to a phd in general, or to a phd specifically at their school/affiliated school? would jumping institutions cause you to lose the mstp stipend?

This is sometimes possible, although the med school isn't necessarily obliged to keep extending your leave of absence through your PhD program. This is definitely a hard way to do it; I have a friend who did his MD/PhD that way.

And you almost certainly cannot do this as part of an MSTP, which means you will not get a med school tuition waiver or stipend. (You'll still get regular grad student funding during the PhD part.)

BTW, I'd be careful about mentioning stuff like this to programs you're interested in. MSTP slots are a precious resource to the schools that give them out, and you can torpedo your chances if your goals appear incompatible with the program's.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Not to harsh on you by any means stillsmilin...I'm just wondering what motivations and thoughts spurred this question. I've never really thought of this issue so my previous answer is kinda naive, I must admit. I'm really curious as to what issues you're thinking of when asking the question, if you don't mind me asking 🙂

I do agree with the previous post which mentioned the notion of just doing the MD and PhD separately instead of under the umbrella of an MSTP program if one is really insistent on doing MD and PhD training at different institutions...the former path would seem much simpler to serve that purpose.