Cynical personal statement?

[mercaptovizadeh]

I was thinking of putting in phrases like "in a bid to pad my resume, I did blablabla, thinking such and such, but at the end, realized this and that." What do you think?

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[Doc.Holliday]

I was thinking of putting in phrases like "in a bid to pad my resume, I did blablabla, thinking such and such, but at the end, realized this and that." What do you think?

terrible idea... being creative in that sort of way flies sometimes in undergrad admissions, but med school is a whole different ball game. either take the ps seriously or they wont take you seriously either...

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

terrible idea... being creative in that sort of way flies sometimes in undergrad admissions, but med school is a whole different ball game. either take the ps seriously or they wont take you seriously either...

I see, so med schools tend to be more conservative and prefer hypocrisy and window-dressing to brutal honesty and telling it how it is? OK. Thanks.

 

[Medikit]

Do not do that, it would be suicide. Don't even think of doing that in an interview either. I hate selling myself as well but your goal here is show schools why you would be an excellent candidate for being a doctor and I'm sure we both know how well cynicism would convey this.

I see, so med schools tend to be more conservative and prefer hypocrisy and window-dressing to brutal honesty and telling it how it is? OK. Thanks.

Well idealy they want someone who did extra curriculars because they wanted to rather than because they needed it for their resume. I suppose your goal is to trick medical schools into thinking that you are the former rather than the latter.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Do not do that, it would be suicide. Don't even think of doing that in an interview either. I hate selling myself as well but your goal here is show schools why you would be an excellent candidate for being a doctor and I'm sure we both know how well cynicism would convey this.



Well idealy they want someone who did extra curriculars because they wanted to rather than because they needed it for their resume. I suppose your goal is to trick medical schools into thinking that you are the former rather than the latter.

I am willing to bet that 85% of the people who volunteer are doing it to pad their resumes. It certainly was so in my case.

I am also willing to bet that 85% of the people who do research do it for the same reason. It was not so in my case.

Let's face it, many of us have been inclined towards medicine before we were even in college. I did my volunteering experience to pad my resume. However, I got a lot more out of it that I expected, and got to know myself. But it really didn't strengthen or weaken my desire to study medicine. Nothing did. I've wanted to be a doctor since I was in middle school and nothing has changed that. So all these experiences have really been hoops to jump through and nothing more.

 

[Medikit]

I am willing to bet that 85% of the people who volunteer are doing it to pad their resumes. It certainly was so in my case.

I am also willing to bet that 85% of the people who do research do it for the same reason. It was not so in my case.

Let's face it, many of us have been inclined towards medicine before we were even in college. I did my volunteering experience to pad my resume. However, I got a lot more out of it that I expected, and got to know myself. But it really didn't strengthen or weaken my desire to study medicine. Nothing did. I've wanted to be a doctor since I was in middle school and nothing has changed that. So all these experiences have really been hoops to jump through and nothing more.

It's tough but it's what you have to do then. It's unfortunate that you couldn't find volunteer positions that you enjoyed. I don't know about the 85% number. During interviews I was truly amazed by the other candidates I met. They were intelligent, qualified, and many were true humanitarians. I talked for a long time with one particular applicant about her history with trying to help who were trapped in juvenile detention centers simply because they did not have parents and were wards of the state. I've talked to people who decided to become a doctor after traveling to Africa with a friend who was becoming a nurse where they helped a missionary doctor treat his patients. I've talked to people who have been an EMT ever since they started college and can't wait till they finally get to do emergency medicine.

It's very, very competitive. You can do whatever you want.

 

[45408]

I am willing to bet that 85% of the people who volunteer are doing it to pad their resumes. It certainly was so in my case.

I am also willing to bet that 85% of the people who do research do it for the same reason. It was not so in my case.

Let's face it, many of us have been inclined towards medicine before we were even in college. I did my volunteering experience to pad my resume. However, I got a lot more out of it that I expected, and got to know myself. But it really didn't strengthen or weaken my desire to study medicine. Nothing did. I've wanted to be a doctor since I was in middle school and nothing has changed that. So all these experiences have really been hoops to jump through and nothing more.

I certainly understand what you mean, but phrasing it by saying "in a bid to pad my resume..." just sounds terrible in a PS, I think. At worst, you could say that some of your efforts in a certain endeavor did not pan out the way you had hoped they would.

My clinical volunteering experience was lackluster, to say the most. So, I like to talk about my other, very, very positive clinical experiences. I'm not even going to include my clinical volunteering in the PS. I'll put it on the AMCAS, but that's because I've got 15 blanks to fill. In my PS, I plan to talk about what draws me to medicine, my research, my clinical experience, maybe my non-clinical volunteering, and some miscellaneous info about me that might be relevant.

 

[SD Skunk]

I was thinking of putting in phrases like "in a bid to pad my resume, I did blablabla, thinking such and such, but at the end, realized this and that." What do you think?

no.

if you were serious about this, then please administer a paper cut to your scrotum.

just kidding.

but seriously, don't do that. you want to convey maturity and soundness of mind. don't raise any red flags.

 

[SD Skunk]

I see, so med schools tend to be more conservative and prefer hypocrisy and window-dressing to brutal honesty and telling it how it is? OK. Thanks.

look, man. this is the real world. you have to kiss ass sometimes. accept it.

moreover, there is no need to express that sort of cynicism towards people who are trying to help you get into med school. we are just being brutally honest with you and telling you how it is.

 

[Haybrant]

I am willing to bet that 85% of the people who volunteer are doing it to pad their resumes. It certainly was so in my case.

I am also willing to bet that 85% of the people who do research do it for the same reason. It was not so in my case.
.

wow, you've revealed so much to the people on this forum.

i know a prominent surgeon that is doing it for the money; that doesnt mean he isnt saving x number of patients a day. Should he have his MD revoked b.c his intentions arent entirely charitable.

And nobody here cares if your reasons to do research werent to get into med school. A good friend of mine did it for precisely that reason and in the process discovered an important molecular combinatorial treatment against a non-resectable cancer which was patented and is now in early phase trials. B.c his intentions werent as pure as yours, does that make him a worse researcher or person; or, conversely, you a better one?

 

[riceman04]

I am willing to bet that 85% of the people who volunteer are doing it to pad their resumes. It certainly was so in my case.

I am also willing to bet that 85% of the people who do research do it for the same reason. It was not so in my case.

Let's face it, many of us have been inclined towards medicine before we were even in college. I did my volunteering experience to pad my resume. However, I got a lot more out of it that I expected, and got to know myself. But it really didn't strengthen or weaken my desire to study medicine. Nothing did. I've wanted to be a doctor since I was in middle school and nothing has changed that. So all these experiences have really been hoops to jump through and nothing more.

I am part of that 15% then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AndyMD]

Let's face it, many of us have been inclined towards medicine before we were even in college. I did my volunteering experience to pad my resume. However, I got a lot more out of it that I expected, and got to know myself. But it really didn't strengthen or weaken my desire to study medicine. Nothing did. I've wanted to be a doctor since I was in middle school and nothing has changed that. So all these experiences have really been hoops to jump through and nothing more.

I think this is kind of an interesting point, and I've heard other people mention it before-- it wasn't the case for me, though, so it's always kind of struck me as odd. What was this innate desire you had that drove you to want to be a doctor? Were your parents, relatives or family friends doctors? How did you know that you wanted to be a doctor without having ever had any of the "resume-padding" experiences -- experiences which ideally should demonstrate your interest in learning more about the profession or that desire to help people, which all pre-doctors seem to profess.

How can you honestly say that you "knew" you wanted to be a doctor without having much first-hand knowledge of what being a doctor really means? The ideal candidate to medical school could say that these experiences brought him or her closer to the profession, which (importantly) confirmed an initial, perhaps whimsical or even irrational, desire to pursue medicine.

I mean, wanting something for such a long time and with such intensity doesn't make it any more or less rational, right or justified for any given person -- it all depends on your actual understanding of what the profession entails and your own abilities along those lines... I don't know how much knowledge you really have of the profession, but without volunteering, you can't show medical schools that you ever even lifted a finger to pursue this important validation of your desire. It's intellectually lazy not to take those opportunities (when they exist) to test your own reasons for wanting to pursue medicine, and I can guarantee that medical schools don't like that.

One could also talk about the actualization of potential into credentials ... you may have a LOT of potential for any given task or profession, but that's impossible to measure, in itself. We can only measure you by your credentials, and I would define credentials as the tangible things you have done, as a function of your potential. So what if you've always wanted to be a doctor? Anybody could say that ... where's the *proof* that you've wanted to be a doctor? This is something that the honest and the hypocritical, alike, must struggle with ... Hah this all presupposes honesty on those applications, of course.

Anyways, don't take any of this the wrong way... I just meant it all as food for thought... I'll agree with you that a lot of pre-meds are merely volunteering because they know its what schools want to see, and its a shame that their behavior is often indistinguishable at the 'application level' from that of honest people who pursue these things as real learning experiences, but can you think of a better system? I can't... heh and I don't think that the handful of applicants who choose to buck the trend and serve up their personal statements with wry cynicism will somehow edge out their more hypocritical peers by that alone...

Moreover, I'm no one to talk about doing tons of volunteering... I just did a little, here and there, but in ways that I cared about. I'm also more interested in research, and MD/PhD programs seem to be understanding of that. Good luck!

 

[Indryd]

I see, so med schools tend to be more conservative and prefer hypocrisy and window-dressing to brutal honesty and telling it how it is? OK. Thanks.

How has this guy been taken seriously for like 10 posts after this? OBVIOUSLY--with a reply like that to the VERY FIRST person to reply with advice that HE SOLICITED--he posted looking for an argument, not advice. This is my first post in these forums, but I can already see we lack a vomiting smiley for cases like this.

EDIT = Lots of good stuff in this thread, didn't mean to minimize the quality of the responses. It's just that merc didn't deserve them.

EDIT 2 = Ok, after reading a bunch of merc's posts in other threads, I see I have rushed to judgment. Seems like a normal enough guy. Still, I stand by MOST of these remarks. That response seem so out of line and childish considering you asked for advice and got it.

 

[AndyMD]

This is my first post in these forums, but I can already see we lack a vomiting smiley for cases like this.

Haha, actually, we do have

 

[Indryd]

Haha, actually, we do have

Woopsie...! Failed to see the little "more" button. Alrighty then, here we go.



Exxxcellent...

Thanks AndyMD!

 

[SitraAchra]

just wait until they bust out the violin playing smilie!

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

wow, you've revealed so much to the people on this forum.

i know a prominent surgeon that is doing it for the money; that doesnt mean he isnt saving x number of patients a day. Should he have his MD revoked b.c his intentions arent entirely charitable.

And nobody here cares if your reasons to do research werent to get into med school. A good friend of mine did it for precisely that reason and in the process discovered an important molecular combinatorial treatment against a non-resectable cancer which was patented and is now in early phase trials. B.c his intentions werent as pure as yours, does that make him a worse researcher or person; or, conversely, you a better one?

Sorry if that was the implication. I don't think it matters much what your motives are for research - since there is little human component.

I do think, though, that there is something wrong with doing ostensibly charitable activities with baser motives lying beneath. That is why I have felt so guilty about some of these insincere volunteering experiences. The end result may be the same, but, in my view, the heart is not in the right place. So yes, I do think that it is better to go into medicine out of altruism rather than money, even if the results are the same.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I think this is kind of an interesting point, and I've heard other people mention it before-- it wasn't the case for me, though, so it's always kind of struck me as odd. What was this innate desire you had that drove you to want to be a doctor? Were your parents, relatives or family friends doctors? How did you know that you wanted to be a doctor without having ever had any of the "resume-padding" experiences -- experiences which ideally should demonstrate your interest in learning more about the profession or that desire to help people, which all pre-doctors seem to profess.

How can you honestly say that you "knew" you wanted to be a doctor without having much first-hand knowledge of what being a doctor really means? The ideal candidate to medical school could say that these experiences brought him or her closer to the profession, which (importantly) confirmed an initial, perhaps whimsical or even irrational, desire to pursue medicine.

I mean, wanting something for such a long time and with such intensity doesn't make it any more or less rational, right or justified for any given person -- it all depends on your actual understanding of what the profession entails and your own abilities along those lines... I don't know how much knowledge you really have of the profession, but without volunteering, you can't show medical schools that you ever even lifted a finger to pursue this important validation of your desire. It's intellectually lazy not to take those opportunities (when they exist) to test your own reasons for wanting to pursue medicine, and I can guarantee that medical schools don't like that.

One could also talk about the actualization of potential into credentials ... you may have a LOT of potential for any given task or profession, but that's impossible to measure, in itself. We can only measure you by your credentials, and I would define credentials as the tangible things you have done, as a function of your potential. So what if you've always wanted to be a doctor? Anybody could say that ... where's the *proof* that you've wanted to be a doctor? This is something that the honest and the hypocritical, alike, must struggle with ... Hah this all presupposes honesty on those applications, of course.

Anyways, don't take any of this the wrong way... I just meant it all as food for thought... I'll agree with you that a lot of pre-meds are merely volunteering because they know its what schools want to see, and its a shame that their behavior is often indistinguishable at the 'application level' from that of honest people who pursue these things as real learning experiences, but can you think of a better system? I can't... heh and I don't think that the handful of applicants who choose to buck the trend and serve up their personal statements with wry cynicism will somehow edge out their more hypocritical peers by that alone...

Moreover, I'm no one to talk about doing tons of volunteering... I just did a little, here and there, but in ways that I cared about. I'm also more interested in research, and MD/PhD programs seem to be understanding of that. Good luck!

Well, the alternative system, and the one that I advocate, is the one in the rest of the world, where you go to med school right after high school. I think that foreign doctors are not a bit weaker than American ones, so apparently that system works. I am tired of all the hoops that we pre-meds have to jump through. If I could do whatever I wanted in college, it would probably be practicing musical instruments, learning ancient Greek, and doing some research in theoretical physics - however, I haven't been able to do things like that because the adcoms don't appreciate it - they just want the staple volunteering, clubs, organizations, etc. Really, it gets quite sickening, because there is a sort of deindividualization that takes place and all are made to conform to the cookie-cutter model (or cookie-cutter on steroids if they want to get into Harvard).

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I asked for advice and got a response. Thank you. However, I was also greeted by shreiks of outrage, squeals of self-righteousness, vomit smileys, and finally swearing. What a bunch of immature, obnoxious, people.

But thanks again to those who responded in earnest.

 

[Iwy Em Hotep]

Emphasizing your base motives isn't any more honest than emphasizing your altruistic ones. It's just different from what every other applicant does.

If your aim is to be unique or clever, there are better ways to convey this in a personal statement.

 

[45408]

Well, the alternative system, and the one that I advocate, is the one in the rest of the world, where you go to med school right after high school. I think that foreign doctors are not a bit weaker than American ones, so apparently that system works. I am tired of all the hoops that we pre-meds have to jump through. If I could do whatever I wanted in college, it would probably be practicing musical instruments, learning ancient Greek, and doing some research in theoretical physics - however, I haven't been able to do things like that because the adcoms don't appreciate it - they just want the staple volunteering, clubs, organizations, etc. Really, it gets quite sickening, because there is a sort of deindividualization that takes place and all are made to conform to the cookie-cutter model (or cookie-cutter on steroids if they want to get into Harvard).

It doesn't matter - all the superficiality would just be transferred to HS students anyways. I think med school after high school would be a terrible idea.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Emphasizing your base motives isn't any more honest than emphasizing your altruistic ones. It's just different from what every other applicant does.

If your aim is to be unique or clever, there are better ways to convey this in a personal statement.

Just to give some background, I applied two years ago, and that time I spent months crafting the "perfect" statement, which was a bit lyrical, philosophical, etc. It didn't seem to pay off. This time, my aim was to put things as they stand. To say what was altruistic and what was base, and then describe how something that was initially base eventually was of great formative value. I was hoping that such candor would be attractive to someone reading the statement. It certainly would be to me. But, gauging from the hysterical postings of some of the pre-meds and meds on this thread, I will go with cookie-cutter statement - afterall, it seems to work.

 

[jammin06]

It's tough but it's what you have to do then. It's unfortunate that you couldn't find volunteer positions that you enjoyed. I don't know about the 85% number. During interviews I was truly amazed by the other candidates I met. They were intelligent, qualified, and many were true humanitarians. I talked for a long time with one particular applicant about her history with trying to help who were trapped in juvenile detention centers simply because they did not have parents and were wards of the state. I've talked to people who decided to become a doctor after traveling to Africa with a friend who was becoming a nurse where they helped a missionary doctor treat his patients. I've talked to people who have been an EMT ever since they started college and can't wait till they finally get to do emergency medicine.

It's very, very competitive. You can do whatever you want.

Does that mean I'm golden since I've been an EMT but also going to volunteer in Kenya on thursday?

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

It doesn't matter - all the superficiality would just be transferred to HS students anyways. I think med school after high school would be a terrible idea.

I don't think they have to do all those hoops at all. Generally, if you do well in your classes and on the entrance exams, you get it. True, then people with baser motives can get in, but that's also the case with the American system. The only difference here is that we have to demonstrate our compassion by a bunch of outside activities that anyone can do, regardless of their motives, as I just mentioned. The only thing this does is deter the lazy or those who have issues with the whole thing; it does nothing to block out the uncompassionate gunner set on getting into med school.

 

[Medikit]

Does that mean I'm golden since I've been an EMT but also going to volunteer in Kenya on thursday?

No

It does mean you've probably had some incredible experiences though

 

[jammin06]

The EMT runs were awesome. Getting to crack a chest while doing CPR in the ER....possibly coolest experience of my life. W/ kenya, I'm both excited and nervous. Doin volunteer work in mobile clinics about 6 hours out of Nairobi, but still worried a little about that new Angola virus.

 

[DrBowtie]

Well, the alternative system, and the one that I advocate, is the one in the rest of the world, where you go to med school right after high school. I think that foreign doctors are not a bit weaker than American ones, so apparently that system works. I am tired of all the hoops that we pre-meds have to jump through. If I could do whatever I wanted in college, it would probably be practicing musical instruments, learning ancient Greek, and doing some research in theoretical physics - however, I haven't been able to do things like that because the adcoms don't appreciate it - they just want the staple volunteering, clubs, organizations, etc. Really, it gets quite sickening, because there is a sort of deindividualization that takes place and all are made to conform to the cookie-cutter model (or cookie-cutter on steroids if they want to get into Harvard).

You could have done all of these things and they would def. add to your interview.

 

[humuhumu]

Just to give some background, I applied two years ago, and that time I spent months crafting the "perfect" statement, which was a bit lyrical, philosophical, etc. It didn't seem to pay off. This time, my aim was to put things as they stand. To say what was altruistic and what was base, and then describe how something that was initially base eventually was of great formative value. I was hoping that such candor would be attractive to someone reading the statement. It certainly would be to me. But, gauging from the hysterical postings of some of the pre-meds and meds on this thread, I will go with cookie-cutter statement - afterall, it seems to work.

I wouldn't make it too cookie-cutter... have you read through this stuff: http://www.studentdoctor.net/essays/index.asp

Lot of great ideas there. Keep in mind that each person on the admissions committees read hundreds (if not thousands) of statements, spending only a few minutes with each. As long as you don't come off cynical or bitter, a little candor might not hurt. You should be your honest self, but try to be your best honest self.

 

[Medikit]

I wouldn't make it too cookie-cutter... have you read through this stuff: http://www.studentdoctor.net/essays/index.asp

Lot of great ideas there. Keep in mind that each person on the admissions committees read hundreds (if not thousands) of statements, spending only a few minutes with each. As long as you don't come off cynical or bitter, a little candor might not hurt. You should be your honest self, but try to be your best honest self.

Great advice. Also I think you have the coolest name on SDN.

 

[45408]

I don't think they have to do all those hoops at all. Generally, if you do well in your classes and on the entrance exams, you get it. True, then people with baser motives can get in, but that's also the case with the American system. The only difference here is that we have to demonstrate our compassion by a bunch of outside activities that anyone can do, regardless of their motives, as I just mentioned. The only thing this does is deter the lazy or those who have issues with the whole thing; it does nothing to block out the uncompassionate gunner set on getting into med school.

You don't understand. The sheer numbers of people trying to get into med school means that adcoms can dictate that they want intelligence AND all these other traits. HS students would be doing EC's just like we are.

 

[FutureOrthoDoc]

I asked for advice and got a response. Thank you. However, I was also greeted by shreiks of outrage, squeals of self-righteousness, vomit smileys, and finally swearing. What a bunch of immature, obnoxious, people.

But thanks again to those who responded in earnest.

If you ask for advice on a public forum, then you have to expect a wide, cross section of answers and opinions. If that bothers you, maybe the medical field isn't right for you. Wait untill you are a resident. I promise you that the attendings and patients alike will have plenty to say that will offend you. Thicken your skin a little.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

You don't understand. The sheer numbers of people trying to get into med school means that adcoms can dictate that they want intelligence AND all these other traits. HS students would be doing EC's just like we are.

No, I do. I am just saying that all these other activities do not really inform the adcoms as to personal traits. The interview is perhaps best for that, but people can cloak their true personality very well even then.

And, honestly, the med schools should really triple their class sizes. Perhaps the influx of doctors would cut the salaries and make it a less lucrative business - hence only those who really want to be doctors would go into it.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

If you ask for advice on a public forum, then you have to expect a wide, cross section of answers and opinions. If that bothers you, maybe the medical field isn't right for you. Wait untill you are a resident. I promise you that the attendings and patients alike will have plenty to say that will offend you. Thicken your skin a little.

Speaking of rudeness (and not to digress), I had such an experience but it was the other way around. I had appendicitis, and my mother, understandably worried, tried to speak several times to the doctor, but was rebuffed each time (he was too busy). Then, as we were leaving, I heard him mutter under his breath "that f---ing woman..." to a resident. I told my mom (who was a way off), and she confronted him. He was shocked cuz he couldn't figure out how she could hear. It was really funny in a way. But, that's just another example of a doctor that should not have been.

 

[porscheman]

"To thine own self be true"!!! Good luck.

 

[funshine]

I see, so med schools tend to be more conservative and prefer hypocrisy and window-dressing to brutal honesty and telling it how it is? OK. Thanks.

I, for one, really like it when people have to go out on a limb to write honest, personal statements with ideas that show their individuality even if it runs the risk of getting them rejected. I would also like to think that admissions officials at top schools appreciate this honesty. Be careful how you put it though. Like Medikit mentioned above, lots of people have sincerely (or maybe habitually) devoted their young lives to compassion, and compared to those applicants, someone who even hints to personal struggles overcoming cynicism and barely stomaching Red-cross type activities would have a serious disadvantage. Most would also agree that med school/residency, not college is the time when you are most in danger of becoming cynical and losing perspective.

I wrote a very honest personal statement a while ago, and I had several other people including my pre-med advisor read it to make sure it wasn't too cynical. You might want to do the same. It's going to take more effort, but there is no reason why you can't write an appealing personal statement that you can be proud of. And one other thing to be careful of: aren't you actually really young compared to most applicants? If you really wanted to study ancient Greek, music, physics or whatever, then you should have had the time to do it before "preparing" for med school right? Why not wait until you're 23/24 to apply and in the meantime, pursue some other things in your life? I know it's easier said than done though.

 

[porscheman]

Hello. I think some of you have offered wonderful words of wisdom; others, not so much.

Something struck me while reading an admissions book somewhere. An adm. officer said that he would rather see that a student spent his/her summer reading 50 great books under a tree than cramming it with research/ volunteering/shadowing- he wants honesty. It is far more interesting in my opinion to hear a student plays the sitar or knows Ancient Greek than the traditional pre-med stuff. Someone who wrote a novel is equally as qualified (given basic entrance criteria) to be a wonderful physician. Original activities and passions will make interviewing easier because a.) your interest will show by your involvement and success and b.) you won't be nervous about being discovered as a fraud (won't have to defend your motivations), and thus your voice and posture will be more open and inviting.

Don't forget we're living our lives RIGHT NOW, not preparing to. Do things you love. Learn languages. Travel. Have sex. Read. Study. Watch movies. Yes volunteer and yes do research. But enjoy them. Pick projects you can see yourself revelling in rather than struggling in just to appear impressive.

Truly, this process has the effect of making us into stats and lists. I buy into it just as much as the next guy. But from having caring mentors I have been able to keep somewhat of a perspective. Truly, we ought to follow exactly what we want. And if we're not admitted to Harvard or wherever, then the school wasn't right for us. We'll be admitted by a place who has aware enough faculty to recognize that we are passionate humans and not those numbers. Because, I would rather be treated by someone who has traveled the world and knows how to cook than someone who got a 45 MCAT (again, all other things being equal).

 

[funshine]

Hello.. I think some people have said very good things; others, not so much.

One statement struck me while reading an admissions book somewhere. An ad officer said he'd rather hear a student say that he/she read 50 great books under a tree over a summer than cram in all these other things (volunteering,research, etc.)- meaning he wants honesty. If your desire to do those things are sincere than by all means do them! But it's also important to remember we're living our lives right now, not preparing to. We should enjoy the present. If we do enjoy whatever we are doing it will show because we'll be involved for a sustained time and probably achieve great things with them. Don't live your life around what you *think* an adcom wants to see. They're people, and just like you and me they want to see variety. I imagine they'd definitely need a vomiting smiley after reading the same application over and over and over. A person who studies Ancient Greek or who plays the sitar is waaayyyyy more interesting and fresh to the eyes of a committee member, and he/she is to me as well. Conversations will flow from original things because the interviewer will be sincerely interested. Besides, we will have the rest of our lives to devote to sciences. Now's the time to try new things and learn those languages.

Given that I'm only barely over 20 I can't presume to know much about life. But I can pass along these words of wisdom which I have gleaned from grandparents and other role models. Stick with what is "congruent" with yourself. "To thine own self be true"!!! Good luck.

Nice.

"An ad officer said he'd rather hear a student say that he/she read 50 great books under a tree over a summer than cram in all these other things (volunteering,research, etc.)- meaning he wants honesty."

I think it really depends on the admissions officer. If they've had similar life experiences, then they'll appreciate what you have to say. For ex, if you talk about how much you like "In Search of Lost time" and how it changed your life and he's never heard of Proust before, then he's not going care....even though reading Proust is a major accomplishment in anyone's life. Not that I've ever read Proust =)

I'm just reminded of the time I sent my PS to a whole range of SDNers, and from some of the comments I got, I could tell some people didn't even understand what I was trying to say! The problem with being honest about your cynicism is that a lot of people just won't get it. There are a disproportionately large number of cynics at certain schools like my own, and we forget that the rest of the population might have healthier attitudes towards life.

 

[humuhumu]

Great advice. Also I think you have the coolest name on SDN.

Why thank you! I was surprised and delighted that no one had taken it....

 

[Doc.Holliday]

The problem with being honest about your cynicism is that a lot of people just won't get it. There are a disproportionately large number of cynics at certain schools like my own, and we forget that the rest of the population might have healthier attitudes towards life.

exactly. if you are really serious about wanting to get into med school, you wouldnt take the risk. you dont know what type of person is going to be reading your ps, and you should take that into account while writing it... on the other hand, writing such an essay for a reach/extreme reach school isnt such a bad idea. i did that for undergrad, i used conservative essays for schools that matched my stats and sent in off the wall stuff to ivies etc, and it payed off... at some.

 

[beep]

i don't see why you shouldn't be honest about your "baser" motives as long as (a) it's in the past tense, and (b) you are not flip. the resume-padding line is pretty flip. but if you said something like: i started volunteering because i wanted to strengthen my app, but found the experience transformative (only say it more pretty! and tell a brief story)... i think that would be fine.

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

Well, the alternative system, and the one that I advocate, is the one in the rest of the world, where you go to med school right after high school. I think that foreign doctors are not a bit weaker than American ones, so apparently that system works. I am tired of all the hoops that we pre-meds have to jump through. If I could do whatever I wanted in college, it would probably be practicing musical instruments, learning ancient Greek, and doing some research in theoretical physics - however, I haven't been able to do things like that because the adcoms don't appreciate it - they just want the staple volunteering, clubs, organizations, etc. Really, it gets quite sickening, because there is a sort of deindividualization that takes place and all are made to conform to the cookie-cutter model (or cookie-cutter on steroids if they want to get into Harvard).

In the US, there are indeed programs that allow you to enter straight out of high school. They are usually about 7 years. You have to take the MCAT, but are usually only required to get a standard score (something like over 25).

And I would not want to have the same type of program as foreign countries. In Europe, an MD is considered a less educated degree than a PhD (Its more of a Masters), while in the US they carry the same weight. Also, I liked having to come to undergrad because it let me study things I would never get in those straight from HS programs, specifically the humanities. Also, what if you decide medicine is not for you? If you are in an accelerated program in another country, you are SOL. However, requiring undergraduate work gives you a chance to explore medicine to see if it fits. If you decide its not for you, you have plenty of time to change tracks.

Awesome, you knew you wanted to be a doctor early. So did I. But that doesn't mean there aren't advantages to having an undergrad education, especially for the many of us who didn't know in grade school or whatever.

And ultimately do what you want on your PS. Its yours, and you can do what you like, everyone here is just giving you honest advice. In the end, though, they cannot decide what to write for you because it doesn't affect them. Be warned though, if you do use cynicism, don't come complaining when you aren't getting interviewed/accepted. The point of the PS is to explain who/what/when/where/why/how of why you are pursuing medicine, not to criticize the sytem. Doing that is not going to get you in good favor with the adcoms, as they don't want to hear why the way they are doing things is wrong.

 

[riceman04]

I asked for advice and got a response. Thank you. However, I was also greeted by shreiks of outrage, squeals of self-righteousness, vomit smileys, and finally swearing. What a bunch of immature, obnoxious, people.

But thanks again to those who responded in earnest.

Wow, so judgemental!!! Before you even consider labeling those who replied to your statement, you should consider your own negative traits. You call other people immature and yet you even consider including that quote of yours in your PS. I am not saying that you would be mature if you never considered that option. Rather, I am questioning what thought process would even influence you view things simply as "resume padders." That demonstrates your immaturity to me!! The fact that you have not experienced anything that is sooooooooooooo mindblowing (to you) that it represents much more than "another resume padder" suggests that you have not truly investigated your true interests.

According to your blurb, I would fit under that category of people who made "squeals of self-righteousness." I guess I should have clarified my stance, not realizing that it is conceivable that you don't really consider why pre-meds get such a bad rap. People are absolutely correct when they say that pre-meds only become involved with something if they know their primary benefit will be getting that much closer to gaining acceptance to a medical school. And for that reason, I find it necessary to that I set myself apart from your typical pre-med student. The only similarities that I will admit to having with other premeds is my stubborness and my strong work ethic (Ok enough with that). Yes, maybe I should have presented my little piece of info in a.....how do you say it..... oh yes....... a much more "mature" manner. But for now, that will have to do!


So am I really the obnoxious, immature one, or is it you!!!!?????????
A diatribe vs. a diatribe only equals another diatribe

 

[Sparky Man]

I was thinking of putting in phrases like "in a bid to pad my resume, I did blablabla, thinking such and such, but at the end, realized this and that." What do you think?

Yeah, go for it, man. I'd love to know what happens!

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Wow, so judgemental!!! Before you even consider labeling those who replied to your statement, you should consider your own negative traits. You call other people immature and yet you even consider including that quote of yours in your PS. I am not saying that you would be mature if you never considered that option. Rather, I am questioning what thought process would even influence you view things simply as "resume padders." That demonstrates your immaturity to me!! The fact that you have not experienced anything that is sooooooooooooo mindblowing (to you) that it represents much more than "another resume padder" suggests that you have not truly investigated your true interests.

According to your blurb, I would fit under that category of people who made "squeals of self-righteousness." I guess I should have clarified my stance, not realizing that it is conceivable that you don't really consider why pre-meds get such a bad rap. People are absolutely correct when they say that pre-meds only become involved with something if they know their primary benefit will be getting that much closer to gaining acceptance to a medical school. And for that reason, I find it necessary to that I set myself apart from your typical pre-med student. The only similarities that I will admit to having with other premeds is my stubborness and my strong work ethic (Ok enough with that). Yes, maybe I should have presented my little piece of info in a.....how do you say it..... oh yes....... a much more "mature" manner. But for now, that will have to do!


So am I really the obnoxious, immature one, or is it you!!!!?????????
A diatribe vs. a diatribe only equals another diatribe

Nonsense. In retrospect, some of the "padders," as you called them, informed me about myself and about medicine, but as I said before, I didn't NEED them to know I want to do medicine; understand the difference? I did them because you simply have to if you want admission, but I got out more than I expected. There is nothing immature in all this. It is the adcoms who are immature and who don't "get" that whether someone volunteers, does research, etc. tells them little about the true interests and inclinations of applicants. This is a fact; you see it in undergrad with the athletes who never play sports in college and the star musicians who never play another note once they get in. The whole gist of my question was whether a small dose of honesty, that for many people some of the activities are done purely for admissions purposes (and I think the adcoms know this), was so bad. I guess it is. Back to the sugar-coating...

 

[Obedeli]

I see, so med schools tend to be more conservative and prefer hypocrisy and window-dressing to brutal honesty and telling it how it is? OK. Thanks.

Dude grow up. You are seeking membership in a profession. This is not about some stupid MTV style attitude. It cracks me up when people so quickly and self righteously use the term "hypocrisy." Holy freaking crap, are you in line to become Pope? Everyone and everything is hypocrisy to some point or another. If you aren't smart enough to have figured it out by now, getting into medical school is about playing the game. Sure, you can be the fool who showed up to an medical school interview dressed in a lime green shirt, loose tie, and indoor soccer shoes (no lie, I saw this dude) or you can play the game. Your idea is so bad that it is actually looked for in interviews (i.e. beware of negative people... they become whiney med students/residents). Believe me, I have interviewed my share of hopeful medical students. If you want to call an adcom immature for not appreciating your take; besides being completely narcissistic... go ahead. Just don't expect to be admitted.

I HOPE you don't take my advice.

 

[riceman04]

Nonsense. In retrospect, some of the "padders," as you called them, informed me about myself and about medicine, but as I said before, I didn't NEED them to know I want to do medicine; understand the difference? I did them because you simply have to if you want admission, but I got out more than I expected. There is nothing immature in all this. It is the adcoms who are immature and who don't "get" that whether someone volunteers, does research, etc. tells them little about the true interests and inclinations of applicants. This is a fact; you see it in undergrad with the athletes who never play sports in college and the star musicians who never play another note once they get in. The whole gist of my question was whether a small dose of honesty, that for many people some of the activities are done purely for admissions purposes (and I think the adcoms know this), was so bad. I guess it is. Back to the sugar-coating...

So then, why wont you consider your experiences as reaffirmations. My thing is that if you are at all interested in a field there are things related to it that I think should make your heart skip a beat (sorry. I could not think of any other phrase besides "skip a beat", how corny, but true)

And by the way, people do have time to get involved in many other activities outside of medicine. For example, I mentor and turtor african-american middle-schoolers and high-schoolers (and I did this in college too), I tutored ESL (english as a second language) students while in college, participated in research, I was actively involved in cultural and political grps (black student association, naacp, etc...), and I found time to participate in intrumural sports (ok I really dont like putting out what i did, but I just want to prove a point). And I do have fellow alumni friends, who while in college were heavily involved with playing varsity sports (and could have gone pro) or were excellent musicians, and are now in medical school.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Woopsie...! Failed to see the little "more" button. Alrighty then, here we go.



Exxxcellent...

Thanks AndyMD!

amazing, the whole board vomits at the exact same time!

here's another:

not quite the same projectile effect

 

[Crete]

I was thinking of putting in phrases like "in a bid to pad my resume, I did blablabla, thinking such and such, but at the end, realized this and that." What do you think?

DON'T DO IT. This will hurt you. Simple as that.

 

[YFR]

It's better to convey growth than cynicism.

As for meeting the often ridiculous demands of admissions committees for either globetrekking humanitarians and/or groundbreaking researchers... just do your own thing, pad your resume a bit, and you should be fine. Just be sure to apply to 20+ schools. So much is up to chance, so play the numbers.

It's unfortunate that, since there are more qualified applicants than available seats, the admissions committees end up choosing among many applicants based so much on 'soft' qualities that generally reflect the attitudes of the people on the admissions committees. It almost feels like applying to business school. I personally have not expected -- nor have I cared the least bit about -- extensive life experiences from doctors that I have visited. I just wanted them to do their job well. I think most patients feel the same way. But I'm not likely to ever be on an admissions committee. (See the problem?)

The admissions committees favor students who will not only be good doctors but who will also make their school look good. I think a lot of applicants who could end up being very good doctors really get screwed on the second part.

Anyway, if you're not very interested in research or a career in academics, then there's no need to stress about getting into a top school. Still, play the numbers to increase your chances of being accepted SOMEWHERE. Apply to 20-30 schools with average scores around yours, and you'll surely get in somewhere, even if you haven't done humanitarian work in Kenya.

 

[leechy]

I asked for advice and got a response. Thank you. However, I was also greeted by shreiks of outrage, squeals of self-righteousness, vomit smileys, and finally swearing. What a bunch of immature, obnoxious, people.

Oh, come on. You know you LOVE stirring controversy - i.e. the 'psychiatrists are witch doctors' thread, 'new york city sucks', anything to do with religion, etc etc. And as you have stated in other threads, even your screenname is derived from your reputation as a 'firebrand'. As much as I disagree with you (and occasionally agree with you), I have to credit you for making SDN that much more interesting.

But if we're all such worthless, squealing, idiotic, obnoxious people, why are you still on this forum? You seem to take a peculiar pleasure in making controversial statements, then mocking anyone who disagrees with you.