D.O residency/ job

[lazyanteater]

Forgive me if this question has been answered before (Ive done a few searches and didn't find much) But in regards to those attendings who have been hired/done hiring for groups, what impact would doing an AOA residency at a smaller hospital have in competitive regions i.e socal? I understand we get all the 'trauma' and procedures we need, but it would seem to me in a competitive market that perhaps I would be turned away at the door? I'm just a third year student so I realize this is maybe way to early to be thinking about this. But it does bring up ranking programs in the d.o match versus the acgme. Thanks.

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[Greenbbs]

Forgive me if this question has been answered before (Ive done a few searches and didn't find much) But in regards to those attendings who have been hired/done hiring for groups, what impact would doing an AOA residency at a smaller hospital have in competitive regions i.e socal? I understand we get all the 'trauma' and procedures we need, but it would seem to me in a competitive market that perhaps I would be turned away at the door? I'm just a third year student so I realize this is maybe way to early to be thinking about this. But it does bring up ranking programs in the d.o match versus the acgme. Thanks.

I don't know about SoCal, but I'm a PGY 4 in an EM residency and already have the job that I want for when I'm done, and it's in a very competitive state in a hospital that's multiple times larger than the one I am doing residency in.

If you're good, you're good. It has no bearing whether you're a DO in an osteopathic residency or graduated from an MD residency. Remember, there's crappy MD's in allopathic residencies. You make yourself as competitive as you want.

 

[Midwest Medic]

I got an offer at every job that I applied. Some were in very high demand places, and some were off the beaten path. My residency was at a smaller, community hopsital that was an AOA approved residency.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

If you're good, you're good. It has no bearing whether you're a DO in an osteopathic residency or graduated from an MD residency. Remember, there's crappy MD's in allopathic residencies. You make yourself as competitive as you want.

I'm not in EM (thank god) but I am a DO. As of last year I am familiar with a couple of hospital systems that do not recognize the credentials of osteopathic residency-trained or COMLEX tested physicians. There are probably others in other areas. My feeling is that these sort of places are VERY few and far between, but I feel that a small amount of "DO discrimination" still exists out there. I chose an ACGME residency as well as a USMLE pathway to licensure. Not because I felt I would be "discriminated" against but I felt it would give me the best training with the least amount of hassles.

 

[Midwest Medic]

There is one local hospital here that does not recognize the AOA plastic surgeons. This hospital is very political and the plastic surgery department is the most political of all the departments. It is only that department that I have ever heard of not recognizing any AOA board certification.

 

[bartleby]

You will be able to get a job if you graduate from an accredited residency and pass your boards and you aren't a screwball. However, you might not be at the top of the pile for a job at a trauma center or an academic job if you trained at a small community place.

That sounds more like people defending their turf than any sort of referendum on DO. I've worked with bad MDs and bad DOs alike, but this has a lot more to do with the individual than their educational background.

There is one local hospital here that does not recognize the AOA plastic surgeons. This hospital is very political and the plastic surgery department is the most political of all the departments.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

You will be able to get a job if you graduate from an accredited residency and pass your boards and you aren't a screwball. However, you might not be at the top of the pile for a job at a trauma center or an academic job if you trained at a small community place.

That sounds more like people defending their turf than any sort of referendum on DO. I've worked with bad MDs and bad DOs alike, but this has a lot more to do with the individual than their educational background.

I agree with you in spirit.

However it is my contention that simply graduating from a DO residency will not ensure that you can be hired at any practice in the country.

 

[Greenbbs]

I agree with you in spirit.

However it is my contention that simply graduating from a DO residency will not ensure that you can be hired at any practice in the country.

and as someone who's in a DO residency, and extremely happy there, i can contend that if you do a good job, you'll get whatever job you want outside of like Hopkins or Harvard.

you need to ask yourself what you want to accomplish in life. if you want to work community, you'll get outstanding training at a DO residency for community settings. If you want to be uber academic like Harvard, or BIDMC or whatever, then, go for it...pick that allopathic residency. Just don't sell yourself short, and don't overlook something that may fit your future practice style better.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

and as someone who's in a DO residency, and extremely happy there, i can contend that if you do a good job, you'll get whatever job you want outside of like Hopkins or Harvard.

you need to ask yourself what you want to accomplish in life. if you want to work community, you'll get outstanding training at a DO residency for community settings. If you want to be uber academic like Harvard, or BIDMC or whatever, then, go for it...pick that allopathic residency. Just don't sell yourself short, and don't overlook something that may fit your future practice style better.

Friend, I am glad that you are happy where you are training. What I am telling you is that there are certain places in this country (outside of Harvard or Hopkins or another ivory tower) that do not credential AOA trained physicians and thus give them privileges. It's your choice whether or not to believe. This is an anonymous BB and you need to take everything here with a grain of salt, but I would really think hard and research everything before you contend that by completing a DO residency you can work anywhere but the aforementioned institutions (and their ilk).

 

[Greenbbs]

Friend, I am glad that you are happy where you are training. What I am telling you is that there are certain places in this country (outside of Harvard or Hopkins or another ivory tower) that do not credential AOA trained physicians and thus give them privileges. It's your choice whether or not to believe. This is an anonymous BB and you need to take everything here with a grain of salt, but I would really think hard and research everything before you contend that by completing a DO residency you can work anywhere but the aforementioned institutions (and their ilk).

And I'll contend that I do know of places that don't take DO physicians for anything....regardless of if they completed an ACGME or AOA residency, so by being a DO in the first place you're screwed.

I've done more research into the whole situation than you could imagine, my friend, and know much more than you think I do. I firmly believe that for 99% of EM jobs out there, it doesn't matter whether you did an AOA or ACGME approved residency. Hospitals want good doctors, period, regardless of training. There are certain places that have to 'maintain' their 'reputations' and those are places that *most* people wouldn't want to work anyways (of course, there are those gunners that absolutely have to work at those places, but that's a separate story).

There's somewhere around 4500 ED's in the US. If even 1% of those departments didn't take an AOA trained ED physician, or a DO period that still would leave you with more than 4400 ED's to choose from to work in. If that's not enough choice to get you to a job you're happy with, then I don't know what would make you happy.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Obviously doing a DO residency at a smaller institution has a negative effect on getting your first job, the question is how big is that effect.

I'm certainly not sure, I would caution against putting too much stock in the advice of DO grads who jumped right into the job of their choice because there is probably some reporting bias going on. Very annecdotally and without evidence I have heard of DOs from one program near me having to take very crappy jobs or even do some urgent care.

I think nowadays the anti-DO bias is more on the front end (residency selection) leading to de facto bias on the back end when the osteo residencies tend to be a smaller, community programs. I doubt that the training suffers all that much but there you go.

Also I am learning that good jobs in the tight markets often have pretty serious relationships with one residency program.

I also am less and less impressed by this argument that job placement is all about your residency performance and less about the prestige of your program. I feel like I've seen a few fairly average residents land great jobs right out of residency largely based on connections -- clearly not on the basis of their superior intellectual and interpersonal skills.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

I've done more research into the whole situation than you could imagine, my friend, and know much more than you think I do. I firmly believe that for 99% of EM jobs out there, it doesn't matter whether you did an AOA or ACGME approved residency.

Friend I am sure that you know more about this topic than I do.

My point (again) is that places exist that do not recognize AOA training for credentialing purposes - places outside of the "ivory tower". They may be very few, but it is a sad truth that they do exist.

 

[lazyanteater]

Thanks for the responses guys, it was nice to actually hear from residents/attendings on both sides of the fence. I supposed I should just focus on boards for now.