Please enlighten me with the overall D.O. residencies, as far as the great ones and their reputation,, especially interested in Michigan and the Chi-town program... however, all opinions appreciated , considering all programs.... Also, If you matched D.O. your stats and when you set up your electives... Thank you for reading and responding.
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D.O. residency
Started by KasaNOVA
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KasaNOVA said:
Honestly, we have all submitted this info quite recently in several DO related threads on the EM portion of the forum. I would just do a search of the last 2 month's threads and you will find all this. Good luck.
very common thread and recently discussed as corpsmanup has mentioned. A quick summary would reveal the following as the top (most popular) D.O. only programs:
Lehigh Valley Hospital (Allentown/Bethlehem, PA)
St. James Hospital and Health Center - CCOM program(Olympia Fields, IL)
Doctors Hospital (Columbus, OH)
Oklahoma - Tulsa Program (Tulsa, OK)
Lehigh Valley Hospital (Allentown/Bethlehem, PA)
St. James Hospital and Health Center - CCOM program(Olympia Fields, IL)
Doctors Hospital (Columbus, OH)
Oklahoma - Tulsa Program (Tulsa, OK)
True, but Einstein in Philadelphia is dually accrediated and takes majority of its 8 residents from the allopathic match. At best they take 1 D.O., or sometimes 0, from the osteopathic match (very competitive applicants) and the rest match through the allopathic match.
I forgot to mention something about St. Lukes - Bethlehem. They technically have seperate D.O. and M.D. programs. Stay away from their D.O. program. No where near the quality of the other D.O. programs or even their own allopathic program.
GCS said:
[edit:
For the benefit of general information:
6 of the 12 first-year residents and 5/11 graduating residents are DOs.
http://www.einstein.edu/emergency/education/article5532.html
I suppose this doesn't describe how the D.O. applicants matched to the program. Thanks Shoddy18]
BklynWill said:
I think he is saying that all though there are DOs in the program, most of them matched through the allopathic match... not the AOA match. That sucks since I plan to only apply through the AOA match and Einstein was looking good on the list.
Shodddy18 said:
yes, the DO's just do an intern year at another hospital there in allentown then enter the EM residency after that year w/ a few less requirements than the MD's. (they don't have to go to philly for peds EM) The DO/MD residency there is exactly the same otherwise, the training is the same etc.....I interviewed there this year and really liked the program, but not enough to leave the sunny southwest.
KasaNOVA said:
Of the 5 programs west of the Mississippi, I would have to say that, by reputation, that one of the top programs is Integris Southwest Medical Center in Oklahoma City, OK.
The Freeman program in Joplin, MO is also a great program. It is relatively new, however.
OSUdoc08 said:
Wow, I guess you're really the expert on programs west of the Missisip then, huh? 🙂
However, I would concur that the OK City program is a good one. The Arrowhead program is reputed to be pretty good in the sense that it has high volume and good trauma. However, I heard (don't know if it's true) that it is NOT a linked program, meaning you fight it out with the other interns for the PGY-2 EM spots. People interested in Arrowhead can do a search for more info on this.
San_Juan_Sun said:
I'm not the one deciding the reputation of any program, so let's not try to stick it to me. This is simply what I've heard from my experiences. It is an opinion, and you can provide information to disagree with me, as you wish.
I'd challenge you to find a better program than the one mentioned as far as AOA EM programs are concerned, however.
San_Juan_Sun said:
Ok, this year is the first year it is a LINKED program (this is good). In the past Arrowhead was NOT linked.
Thanks for all the insight thus far, however, any info on Botsford in Michigan or any Michigan programs???? even Olympia fields in Chicago... once again, thanks to all....
Also, do you know if you take USMLE step 1 and pass, however, you do not want to release the scores and then take step II , can you just report step II, thanks
Also, do you know if you take USMLE step 1 and pass, however, you do not want to release the scores and then take step II , can you just report step II, thanks
Easy there, buddy. I just found it a bit amusing that you'd rank the programs and then admit you didn't know anything about one of them. Just a bit humorous, and certainly not intended to try and stick it to you. That's why I ended with a 🙂 .OSUdoc08 said:
As far as the Tulsa program goes, I have no knowledge, and so I'll be quiet. However, for the remainder of the osteopathic programs, I can say that the following programs are strong (at least in the AOA world):
NYCOM St. Barnabus
PCOM Albert Einstein
Lehigh Valley
Doctors in Columbus, OH
Botsford
Genesys
Sparrow/Ingham
CCOM Olympia Fields
Arrowhead in Colton, CA
and just for OSUdoc.... Tulsa 🙂
That's by no means a comprehensive list, just a place to start the conversation. If I inadvertently left someone off or included an undeserving program, I apologize in advance.
OSUdoc08 said:
I know that you're an MS2 and you've spent a few hours in the Tulsa ED and you've spoken to people at other residencies...but that doesn't mean that you know anything significant about the Tulsa program.
I've personally handled (as a med student) MVCs, motorcycle crashes, gunshots, & stabbings at TRMC's ED. The residency also has out-rotations for trauma, since we're not a level 1 center.
A contractural change in the attending group & a paperwork issue with the AOA don't make the program "unstable." Also, since you've brought it up before in other threads, the hospital issue is being addressed & won't be an issue anymore in a few month.
You can't take what people at other programs tell you to be gospel truth. I've been told some very interesting "facts" about the Tulsa program by OKC residents who then acknowledged that they spent little or no time in the TRMC ED...and amazingly, their "facts" were false based on my 4 months so far in the Tulsa ED. It is always best to have notable personal experience before you go around blackballing.
OSUdoc08 said:
So you've been spending time with TRMC EM residents?
Whatever. I'm not going to argue with you, but keep in mind that you're not in the best position to be critiquing residencies when you haven't even made it to step 1.
I have talked with residents there who have said that they wished we had more trauma in house rather than out-rotations, but I have yet to have one say that they don't feel like they were well-trained. They all get good jobs (including offers from the OKC program's group) in and out of state.
Keep in mind that a decent portion of residency is what you put into it. Every program has strengths and weaknesses.
Anyways, my point is not really to argue, but to give a bit of the other side. Now lets stop hogging the thread. 😉
Keep in mind that a decent portion of residency is what you put into it. Every program has strengths and weaknesses.
Anyways, my point is not really to argue, but to give a bit of the other side. Now lets stop hogging the thread. 😉
I have to side with Dr.Mom on this one. She has always been a standup person, and I don't think a second year has much to say in light of her experiences. Secondly, you can only rank a program based upon how you fit into that program and how it will provide training as needed for your future career. I know that OKC has a better rep than Tulsa, but my experience was quite the opposite, especially with the help provided by the ancillary staff, which can lend a lot to your education or lack thereof. As well, I felt like OKC focused more on
"moving the meat" than teaching, which can be frustrating when you are just beginning to learn EM.
I would hesitate basing your choices on a programs "rep" rather than your perscepctive thru rotations/interviews. I ranked Wash U over both Cook County, Northwestern (didn't rank) , UTSW (as I was really disappointed with UTSW after interviewing) and well, everywhere else I ranked so the only real opinion that matters is your personal one, and your favorite becomes your "Harvard" which Tulsa certianly is for Dr.Mom.
As far as other DO programs I only have experience at Chicago COM, but I would call it average with great didactics, but the intern year seemed like it was horrible and the Floor/ICU staff is extremely rude/dismissive to students/interns. However, I liked the ED staff and only did not rank them based upon the fact that hospitals are very ghetto and you have to drive a ton to different hospitals each month, as well the peds experience seemed weak. IMHO
Good luck starting in June Mom, and best wishes.
The Mish
"moving the meat" than teaching, which can be frustrating when you are just beginning to learn EM.
I would hesitate basing your choices on a programs "rep" rather than your perscepctive thru rotations/interviews. I ranked Wash U over both Cook County, Northwestern (didn't rank) , UTSW (as I was really disappointed with UTSW after interviewing) and well, everywhere else I ranked so the only real opinion that matters is your personal one, and your favorite becomes your "Harvard" which Tulsa certianly is for Dr.Mom.
As far as other DO programs I only have experience at Chicago COM, but I would call it average with great didactics, but the intern year seemed like it was horrible and the Floor/ICU staff is extremely rude/dismissive to students/interns. However, I liked the ED staff and only did not rank them based upon the fact that hospitals are very ghetto and you have to drive a ton to different hospitals each month, as well the peds experience seemed weak. IMHO
Good luck starting in June Mom, and best wishes.
The Mish
Another program to look at would be Metro in Grand Rapids, MI. It is the ONLY program that filled in the osteopathic match in Michigan this year. There are excellent didactics there. Since the mid 90's, there has been a 100% board pass rate. For the shifts, there is only one resident and sometimes one intern on with the atendings....So ANY procedure, ANY good case, you get. The residents coming out of there have went to some really good positions, and are shining in their curent jobs, seeing more people per hour than collegues from the white tower East Coast programs. Just a couple of things to think about when you are looking for a program.
allendo said:
I've heard only positive things about it. It is a very new program and is the regional hospital in the area, so it gets good trauma. It looks like they didn't fill their program this year with the match, as they had 2/3 spots filled. I understand that all unfilled EM spots were filled after the scramble, however.
I get kind of pi$$ed to hear all the crap Dr. Mom is getting about TRMC. I think if you have not rotated there you have no point giving your opinion about it. I heard so many great things about Emory and after interviewing there felt like I did not fit in and did not rank them. Does this make it a bad program (OF COURSE NOT), the place was amazing, just not for me.
People are getting hired at St. Francis straight out of TRMC, so obviously the trauma is not that big of a deal. Plus they go to cali or somwhere to make up for it. Trauma is not that big of a deal anyway! I did not apply to TRMC or OKC (where I rotated) because I liked UTSW and Scott and White better and felt like I fit in there. I think as DO's we need to stop putting down our own programs!!! It makes us look stupid. To be honest, my two best friends are doing residencies at TRMC and they are two of the smartest guys I know. Both of them were in the top of our class with 80s on boards.
Too-Sweet
People are getting hired at St. Francis straight out of TRMC, so obviously the trauma is not that big of a deal. Plus they go to cali or somwhere to make up for it. Trauma is not that big of a deal anyway! I did not apply to TRMC or OKC (where I rotated) because I liked UTSW and Scott and White better and felt like I fit in there. I think as DO's we need to stop putting down our own programs!!! It makes us look stupid. To be honest, my two best friends are doing residencies at TRMC and they are two of the smartest guys I know. Both of them were in the top of our class with 80s on boards.
Too-Sweet
To be frankly honest, the reason I chose not to apply to DO EM programs was because there was no central hub of information about them on the web. DO residencies across all specialties are seriously a decade behind in marketing and advertisement. I was able to read online about any ACGME program I was interested in, and even email the residents. Just go to the cordem.org website and see how user friendly the SAEM link is for ACGME EM programs. Then try and find one site on the internet with anything similar. Try it for any DO specialty and you will see that you will hit a brick wall. Its frustrating! This is the AOA's #1 problem right now. If AOA residency programs universally marketed themselves on the web the way ACGME programs do, you would see a big difference in perception. You can't break a stigma simply by wishful thinking and prayer. You actually have to strategize.
Not to be a jerk here, which I probably am anyway, but I would hardly call 80's (I assume you mean 80th percentile comlex or 80 on USMLE - either way doesn't matter) the "top of the class." We had tons of people in the high 90's on both, but otherwise I totally agree. This just illustrates OSU-COM has always rocked the hardest, go team. 
Congrats on S+W.
Best Wishes
The Mish
Congrats on S+W. Best Wishes
The Mish
Guys, seriously, shouldn't we be a little more supportive of each other? Congrats to everyone who matched.
corpsmanUP said:
Once again, congrats to all who have matched and kudos, as always, to DrMom for setting the record straight. It is nevertheless important to echo corpsman's point about accurate information. Though rotating at one place gives you a unique perspective, many choices about residency information are made via internet information exchange. Given that the DO match now goes through ERAS, osteopathic programs directors should take the lead in creating their own information super-highway. Internet pages aren't the be-all and end-all, but they go along way in providing applicants with the general, "gist" of a program. Things like affiliated hospitals, sample curriculum schedules, and pictures of current residents help make the selection process the slightest bit easier.
The Mount Sinai Medical Center program in Miami Beach, Fl, suffers from a similar affliction. During my time with the NSUCOM EMIG, I shadowed their doctors and spoke with their residents. Unfortunately, it was difficult to achieve "outreach" beyond South Florida's boundaries. This fact was emphasized by some of the misinformation that concurrently circulated within SDN threads. Certainly, the internet aspect of osteopathic post-grad training is just one part of the overall picture. It would be wise, however, to move toward a more comprehensive on-line database such as the one maintained by SAEM. Having "FAQs" at the applicant's fingertips would make it easier to disseminate ACCURATE information and recruit future physicians. I'm sure this is a project in evolution and that 'internet accessibility' will only get better with time. Maybe this dilemma is best addressed within the confines of the American College of Osteopathic Emergency Physician's student and resident section....
-push
pushinepi2 said:
I agree with PushinEpi - this year the EMRA medical student governing commitee made a concerted effort to get the Osteopathic EM residencies to contribute information to their respective pages on EMRAMatch.org. We had a pretty good turnout for just this basic amount of information, but there is still much to be done. If there are any residents from DO EM residencies haunting these forums, please encourage your administrative staff and/or senior residents to update their information!
Also, in addition to what Pushin recommended with pictures of current residents, contact emails of those who would be willing to answer questions would also be very helpful!
In regards to getting information out to applicants, it has been an uphill battle to learn anything about the majority of the DO EM residencies because there is so little information on the web. Maybe some enterprising resident/group of residents with some HTML skills could use this as a scholarly project and get this information together and published for the betterment of their program (and the applicant pool). Of course, this would involve a longer-term commitment because it would have to be updated from time to time - perhaps this could be relegated to the adminstrative staff of the EM program. Once the page is created and set-up, the editing should only involve changing plain text files.
jd
RayF said:
Hi Everyone,
..From what i understand, the ACOEP is in the process of updating their website on the DO EM Residencies. I'm with the EM Program at Midwestern University-CCOM and our website is
http://mwunet.midwestern.edu/CCOMEMRes/
...The website is pretty updated and you should be able to find information on our programs. We have a 4 year EM Program that includes a traditional internship. In addition, we also have a 5 year EM/IM and EM/FM Program. I'm a PGY-2 and happy with the training here. Please do send me a message if you need any specific info.
good luck to all,
Ahmed Nadeem DO, PGY-2
MWUCCOM EM Program
..From what i understand, the ACOEP is in the process of updating their website on the DO EM Residencies. I'm with the EM Program at Midwestern University-CCOM and our website is
http://mwunet.midwestern.edu/CCOMEMRes/
...The website is pretty updated and you should be able to find information on our programs. We have a 4 year EM Program that includes a traditional internship. In addition, we also have a 5 year EM/IM and EM/FM Program. I'm a PGY-2 and happy with the training here. Please do send me a message if you need any specific info.
good luck to all,
Ahmed Nadeem DO, PGY-2
MWUCCOM EM Program
OSUdoc08 said:
I don't mean to jump on you but you ARE A SECOND YEAR you don't know anything as it related to giving advice on which hospitals are great and which are not. In addition, on all the other boards you seem to think you know something about everything. That is why all those people were making fun of you regarding the "Goljian" issue in the USMLE Step 1 Forum. Sorry but you really need to chill with the "advice"
RayF said:
OSUdoc08 said:
The problem with a lot of the advice you give is that you offer it without pointing out the source, and when people call you out for being just a MSII, you reply with "hey - it's from an XXX in XXX year or program."
If this is really the advice you get from other people, you would do yourself a huge favor - not to mention increase your credibility, if you START OFF BY TELLING WHO GAVE YOU THE ADVICE.
Hey all,
If anyone is willing to post some of the links to osteopathic EM programs, I'll do a quick update on the NSUCOM EMS webpage. If we pool some of our resources together, perhaps we can help create a site with some easily accessible information on DO emergency medicine residencies. Perhaps with DrMom's permission we can use this thread to post the active hyperlinks?
-push
If anyone is willing to post some of the links to osteopathic EM programs, I'll do a quick update on the NSUCOM EMS webpage. If we pool some of our resources together, perhaps we can help create a site with some easily accessible information on DO emergency medicine residencies. Perhaps with DrMom's permission we can use this thread to post the active hyperlinks?
-push
http://www.acoep.org/ed_programs.htm- No info about each program specifics, just lists info and phone #'s etc.
**http://opportunities.aoa-net.org/search/search.cfm?searchType=1&CFID=120868&CFTOKEN=18934893- This is the best one I could find so far. And it is still outdated!!
You would be doing a great service to us 1st year DO students interested in EM. I agree with the above poster that said the AOA is doing a great disservice to itself by not making an updated, comprehensive list of AOA programs. I for one would be glad to do an AOA EM residency if I could find some info out besides what everybody "hears" about the programs.
Thanks in advance if you guys can pull this off....
BMW-
**http://opportunities.aoa-net.org/search/search.cfm?searchType=1&CFID=120868&CFTOKEN=18934893- This is the best one I could find so far. And it is still outdated!!
You would be doing a great service to us 1st year DO students interested in EM. I agree with the above poster that said the AOA is doing a great disservice to itself by not making an updated, comprehensive list of AOA programs. I for one would be glad to do an AOA EM residency if I could find some info out besides what everybody "hears" about the programs.
Thanks in advance if you guys can pull this off....
BMW-
pushinepi2 said:
BMW19 said:
The syndrome of osteopathic contentment is unfortunately prevelant in circles much larger and more important than emergency medicine. It all starts with the top brass at the American Osteopathic Association, and as we say used to say in the Suck, $h!T runs downhill!!
This is bigger than any one person. It will take a coodinated effort by the AOA and its affiliate specialty organizations to implement this. My personal recommendation would be that you go through your school's AOA chapter and submit a resolution resolving that the AOA and sub-spec-groups organize and promote the osteopathic residency programs on the internet, in an equivilant way to allopathic programs. I would recommend you have example websites of both DO and MD programs immediately referenced in the document so you can side step the most certain counteroffensive by the AOA stating it has "already embarked on such a campaign and has achieved great success". Anyone can create a website "listing" residency programs, but it takes true involvement of the individual programs to create user-friendly program and specialty specific websites.
Be ready to show them on-screen how absurd DO residency websites are compared with virtually any allopathic specialties. Just compare the AAFP versus the ACOFP programs. ACOFP has said they now have an equivilant search engine on their website compared with the AAFP's search feature. The similarity ends with the text you type into the search engine. Try both and see. AAFP has EVERY residency in their database and EVERY program has their own up-to-date site. Few even exist in the DO database, and mostly you just get a generic page with dead links and email addresses that don't work (because PD's in DO land change as fast as Texas weather!!).
This will be a massive undertaking that will take years to occur.
The AOA is well-aware of the vacuum of osteo-online residency info. Believe it or not, they're already addressing this & implementing a system so that the info will be up to date & complete. This is almost a case of starting from scratch, but they intend to have more comprehensive & useful info online by 2007.
