Damn this is tough!!!!

[tjmDO]

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Well here I sit, a new fourth year student who at the moment is 100% dead locked between Surgery and Emergency medicine. I was a paramedic for 5 years prior to medical school and therefore love EM, but during my surgery rotations I have fallen in love again with as much passion. How do I make a choice? How do you choose between your wife and your girlfriend if you love them both the same? So here is what I have dug up. EM spends on average about 40hrs/wk in pt care, surgery 60/wk. Ave salary for EM is roughly 220-250K, surgery is approx 250K. Ok lets not get into a pissing match about money. They both make a ****-load!! I have a wife and an 8mth old. Family is a big deal for me. No physician wants to really give you the detailed information about lifestyle or the real average salaries in medicine. They all just tell you do what you like and thats probably what most will tell me here. And by the way that line is a crock of crap because there are more than a few people who are hung up on choosing between more than one specialty. So I am looking to you surgeons out there to help me out with some much needed information, honest info!! Can I have a life outside of surgery to spend time on vacation with my wife and son while still making $250,000+/year? That is the dinger!! And don't forget I love both specialties the same!! Kind of like having to kids, you love them both equally.

Thanks

tjmdo

 

[Capt_Mac]

If you love both equally why are you wringing your hands and stressing about it.

3 year residency vs. 5
shift work vs. at least 80 hours a week

The best advice given to me when I was deciding whether or not to do Gen Surg was to ask yourself---- Is there anything else that I could do in which I would be happy? If so, do that. Gen Surg is too tough, too demanding both physically and emotionally to do it for either the money or just because.

question is, do you want to be doing emedicine when you are 60 years old? Can you expand or contract your practice?

 

[DrDre']

I echo the above. If you love multiple specialties, then the choice should be made by which one has the best lifestyle and pay. EM is a no-brainer for a former paramedic (I am also). You know exactly what you are getting into. Whereas with surgery, you may still be in the infatuation phase not the lasting love phase...

EM you can work 1 shift a week or be a workaholic and do 5-6. The money is quite good and you can semi-retire anytime, even day 1, if you live cheap.

Surgery is a great field. However, by its very nature, it excludes many people who love it but who do not want to sacrifice so much.

 

[Dire Straits]

the fact that you are questioning it means you probably shouldn't go into surgery.

 

[sjkpark]

You can sleep in 4 days a week in EM (4 10-hour shifts/week). You can't beat that for a lifestyle.

Too bad that I don't like EM.

 

[Leukocyte]

Yeah, I also wish I was in your shoes dude.

Like the great ones before me, I vote for EM.

 

[Celiac Plexus]

the fact that you are questioning it means you probably shouldn't go into surgery.

completely false statement. that you are questioning/thinking about your future is a normal, healthy process.

it sounds like you're concerned about the stress that a surgery residency will place on your family... that's a good thought. if you're older, have a family, wife, etc... then your residency experience might be different from that of a younger, single person. em residency is shorter, and maybe less demanding, but it's not a cakewalk either. as far as residency goes, it's a demanding proposition for most specialties.

to answer your question about compensation in private practice... making 250K in general surgery is not a problem. 250k is about the lowest starting salary for any private practice job that i get offered (though i am a pgy-2/soon to be 3 i still get a regular crop of recruitment letters in my e-mail and mailbox). if you want to work harder, making 500k/yr + is possible. em has the advantage of working less if you like, albeit making less money. surgery practices do not typically have this kind of flexibility.

either field will pay you a decent wage, but if you are doing a job you don't like, the money isn't gonna mean much. i know it's trite, but pick the field that you feel you will be happy doing. as far as the family issues go, talk to your wife & kids (if they're old enough) and see what they say.

either way, best of luck.

 

[The_Id]

Wow that is a easy choice, choose EM.

 

[njbmd]

Hi there,
Having a family life and being a General Surgeon are not mutually exclusive states. All of my surgical attendings have families and all except one have never been divorced. You make time for the things that are important to you. In terms of a specialty, you should go into what you love. If you don't love what you do, medicine is going to be wretched for you. Either you are a surgeon or you are not and that is simple to determine. The rest, you have to decide on.

njbmd 😀
Who IS a surgeon, thank God!

 

[brendang]

ever think about ophtho? get to do some really cool and intricate surgeries with the flexibility to choose if you want to do call heavy fellowships (retina, plastics) or more laid-back, lifestyle-oriented ones (glaucoma, cornea)... as far as reimbursement, lifestyle and variety of surgeries, you really can't beat it...

 

[tjmDO]

thanks guys for the advise. I am still going to do 2 rotations of each before november so hopefully I will figure it out.

Thanks

tjmdo

 

[navysurgeon]

i echo the comments about Optho...its a wonderful field...

i think you would have more flexibility in terms of desirable practice location with EM, compared to GS...the GS job market is tough....if you want to be in a certain location, you gotta look really hard...

EMs can get a job just about anywhere...

You're a bit older, have a family, clearly are already questioning the 'lifestyle' issues of GS (which blow, trust me...)...think about EM...do a rotation, and check out Optho too...

TNS

 

[Bovie9]

hey, good luck. I was a paramedic also- I actually went to med school to become an ER doc. Problem was, I realized after the beginning of 4th year that I was never more miserable during med school than while in the ER. I was never happier than during my surgery rotation. Go with your gut.

 

[lovemydrhubby]

tjmdo-

I wish you luck deciding. Just because you are questioning if surgery is right for you doesn't mean you aren't meant to be a surgeon. I think it's only natural to explore lifestyle of each specialty. With time (and those elective rotations) I know you'll make the right choice.

As a side note- my husband was the same way a month ago- the choice was Surg vs Ped for him (complete opposites I'm told!). He finally realized one of the major things holding him back from committing to surg was his concern about the lifestyle (both during training and beyond). We talked about this together and when he had my support, the decision became easy. So- my advice is to discuss this with your wife! Just talking about the pros/cons with someone else might help or make you realize certain things that are holding you back from making the choice.

 

[Leukocyte]

my husband was the same way a month ago- the choice was Surg vs Ped for him (complete opposites I'm told!).

He is not the only one! I too love working with kids, and love surgery. However, I hate "the medicine mentality" of Pediatrics, and "hate" working with adults as a General Surgeon. I am still debating, and playing with the idea of going into Peds Sx. It is a huge commitment. Thank God I am not married.

Good Luck.

 

[JudoKing01]

Ever think of ENT (You've probably gotten that one a hundred times)?

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

I would make for darn certain I could be happy as a GS before I'd apply for GS in the hopes of getting a peds spot.

I am somewhat in the same predicament. I want to do plastics. But as we all know too well it's terribly difficult to get integrated. So I am struggling to make sure that I will be committed to GS if I go that way for a back up. Honestly, I have to know that I could practice GS if I had to and be fairly happy doing it. There are too many uncertainties to assume that I'll get a plastics fellowship. The fellowship match rate for peds and plastics are both ridiculously low. It's quite a large gamble. I wish for your sake there was some magic crystal ball that would tell you that a spot would be yours in 5-7 years. But sadly none of us really know for sure.


I wish you the best of luck with your decision. It's a hard one and one that I can relate to in my own, albeit different, way.

 

[Leukocyte]

I would make for darn certain I could be happy as a GS before I'd apply for GS in the hopes of getting a peds spot.

I am somewhat in the same predicament. I want to do plastics. But as we all know too well it's terribly difficult to get integrated. So I am struggling to make sure that I will be committed to GS if I go that way for a back up. Honestly, I have to know that I could practice GS if I had to and be fairly happy doing it. There are too many uncertainties to assume that I'll get a plastics fellowship. The fellowship match rate for peds and plastics are both ridiculously low. It's quite a large gamble. I wish for your sake there was some magic crystal ball that would tell you that a spot would be yours in 5-7 years. But sadly none of us really know for sure.


I wish you the best of luck with your decision. It's a hard one and one that I can relate to in my own, albeit different, way.

I hear you my friend....

If there was ever an integrated pathway for Peds Sx as there is for Plastics, then I would ***** myself to the PD of a Plastics program at which I have a reasonable chance of getting into!!!! If I were interested in Plastics, I would never go the GS route. I would talk to a PD of a Plastics program, and do reaserch with him/her...until he/she likes me. I would do whatever it takes to "seduce" the PD, even it takes 2-3 years.

Unfortunatly, no such route is possible for Peds or Peds CT.

Thanks for wishing me Good Luck, and I wish the same for you too. 🙂

 

[Dire Straits]

leukocyte, may i ask why you don't like the adult aspect of gsurg?

 

[Leukocyte]

leukocyte, may i ask why you don't like the adult aspect of gsurg?

Its not just the adult aspect of GS, I do not like the adult aspect of ANY medical field.

I don't know, I guess I just love working with kids. There is nothing more satisfying (career wise) than helping a child who needs medical attention. To me, there is nothing more motivating. I also like working with the kids' parents since I sympathize with them very very much (By the way, I am not a parent, but would love to be if and when I find my "Angel" 😛 )

I also do have a "childish"/"playful"/"fun loving" personality - kind of like what Pediatritions have.....

Adults on the other hand........ 😴

 

[JudoKing01]

I also do have a "childish"/"playful"/"fun loving" personality - kind of like what Pediatritions have.....

You also have the spelling ability of a child.

It's pediatrician.

No, I'm kidding. If I don't say I'm kidding now-a-days, everyone on this board will think I'm some sort of spelling nazi.

It's funny that you mention the personality thing though, because I definately have a childish/playful/fun loving personality, but I could never be a pediatrician. I love the kids, but I don't think I could take care of them for the rest of my life as a doctor. Plus I'd want to stab a pen through the parents' heads everytime they smoke around an asthmatic.

 

[Leukocyte]

You also have the spelling ability of a child.

It's pediatrician.

It was done intentionally to illustrate my point.

 

[Celiac Plexus]

You also have the spelling ability of a child.

It's pediatrician.

No, I'm kidding. If I don't say I'm kidding now-a-days, everyone on this board will think I'm some sort of spelling nazi.

It's funny that you mention the personality thing though, because I definately have a childish/playful/fun loving personality, but I could never be a pediatrician. I love the kids, but I don't think I could take care of them for the rest of my life as a doctor. Plus I'd want to stab a pen through the parents' heads everytime they smoke around an asthmatic.

hey spelling nazi... it's "definitely"... 😀

 

[JudoKing01]

hey spelling nazi... it's "definitely"... 😀

hey spelling nazi nazi...it's Nazi.

...

....

😛