DAT done 10/6!

[AndrewNJ]

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Did much better than I had anticipated. I was a little surprised by the PA and QR score and thought I would get a bit higher, but I also thought I was going to do worse on Bio and OC. All in all, I am very happy.

PA: 20
QR: 21
RC: 24
Bio: 22
GC: 24
OC: 23
TS: 24
AA: 23

I sort of rushed to take the DAT to give myself a chance to apply for next fall and didn't feel all that prepared. There are far better breakdowns than I could provide here, so I won't try. I'll just comment that I used Cliff's AP Bio, Crack DAT PAT, Chad's videos, DAT Destroyer, and the ADA practice test.

There were questions on my DAT straight from the ADA practice test, so don't overlook that. I found DAT Destroyer to be far, far harder than the actual test. But if you can do the Orgo portion of DAT destroyer, you should ace the DAT. The Chem section was pretty straight forward. I had a bunch of questions about basic stoichiometry and mass to mole conversions and a little bit of nuclear chemistry. Cliff's AP Bio was about perfect as far as level of detail goes. Oh, and the "calculator" they give you now for QR is absolute garbage. Im positive it cost me points just by trying to use it. It was extremely slow and routinely wouldn't clear the memory. Id recommend practicing without it and avoid it as much as you can on the real DAT.

Since its my first post, I should introduce myself. I graduated from PENN back in 2000 with a degree in Computer Science. I basically squandered that academic opportunity, doing only enough to keep my ROTC scholarship. My cumulative GPA there was about a 2.5. I spent 6 years active duty as a Naval Officer, followed by a 2 year stint as a defense contractor and reservist. Back in 2009, I finally made the choice to go back to school and pursue a career I had been interested in for a few years. I moved back to NJ and enrolled at Rutgers to complete my pre-requisites. Ultimately, I declared a second major in Biomedical Engineering as a back up plan in case Dental School doesn't work out. Now, I'm done with all my pre-reqs with a 3.8 GPA and about 10 classes to go for this B.S. in Tissue and Molecular Bioengineering.

So basically now, I'm just hoping schools will overlook my PENN GPA given my work history and current GPA. Think thats too optimistic? Think there is any chance for me to still get some interviews this cycle? I'd really like to start in 2011 rather than 2012. I'm not as young as most of you guys 🙂

Thanks guys. Its a great community here and the discussions really helped me focus my DAT studying in the limited time I had.

-Andrew

 

[Chemboy23]

Wow, awesome scores man! I have been studying like crazy for the past 3 months and I can only dream of scores like that. You should be in good shape, but I'm confused. Your degree from PENN, does that have anything to do with the degree you're about to get (just got)? Your experience is a great thing and I would say your scores (DAT) would offset the GPA, but d-school is insanely competitive right now. The scores you got are just slightly above average now days. I would try to distance myself from the degree you have a 2.5 GPA in and go the 3.8 route, if that's possible at all. I know this is probably cheating or something, but maybe you can choose not to send transcripts from PENN and that will fix it...assuming you didn't transfer any credits or anything from PENN to Rutgers.

You're a Navy guy, that's awesome...I was in the Navy. I served four years on a sub (USS JACKSONVILLE SSN 699) and had a blast. I feel you on wanting to get out ASAP! When I took my DAT, I felt like crying in the center, I got a 17 AA. I am retaking in November now. What sucks is that I was putting all my stock into getting in this time...but my scores have screwed me big time!

Anyways, I think your experience will be considered and looked upon very favorably. The only problem is that GPA at the PENN. If you didn't have that, you'd be in like flynn! Maybe there's some way you can untie yourself from that.

Best of luck my friend! And, Anchors Aweigh!!!

 

[dentalWorks]

well, you totally destroyed the DAT

Try your hardest to bring your overall GPA to about a 3.0, I know its hard as heck, but try, it will significantly improve your chances for interviews.

But overall, I think your application is VERY unique, I see you getting in some day

good luck

 

[dentalWorks]

Would he have to report his first degree at penn to dental schools? i wonder... 🙄

of course, you have to report EVERY college course you've taken to AADSAS

 

[doc toothache]

Would he have to report his first degree at penn to dental schools? i wonder... 🙄

Naaah. Why bother.

 

[AndrewNJ]

I believe AADSAS says to report all higher learning, so I even included my transcript from Tidewater Community College in Virginia where I took an automotive course because I was restoring a 1967 Mustang at the time 🙂.

To answer the first poster's question, the Biomedical Engineering degree is completely separate from my B.S. in Computer Science. The humanities mapped over to Rutgers but none of the sciences did. So my 3.8 is reasonably legitimate and not just a result of a few pre-reqs. I have gone well beyond the requirements in Math and Physics for Dental School and have a slew of courses in Numerical Modeling, Biomechanics, and transport phenomena. This spring, I'll have more classes in physiology, tissue engineering, and biochemistry. I have to hope that an admissions committee will look at my current GPA and DAT score and weight my PENN degree from over 10 years ago accordingly. I'd get too depressed if I thought that it would still be plaguing me.

Just as an aside, if I didn't include that in my transcript, I wouldn't be able to apply to Dental School this year anyways, because I wouldn't be on track to finish an undergraduate degree by the start date of Dental School. Since I have one under the belt already, I can apply regardless of whether or not I finish this second degree.

 

[glo1984]

I agree, definitely don't try to hide your other degree. Work on those other courses, you now know you can be 3.8+ in any class.

Also, since dental school is largely based on a biological curriculum, make sure to have as many biology credits as possible. You have a great story to tell so I hope you are quite efficient at making that come to life on paper and in person.

You have amazing scores and as someone else said, just try to raise your overall GPA above 3.0 since many schools begin by weeding people below that.

 

[Chemboy23]

Well, I didn't really know the situation you were in. I mean really, we all bend the rules at times, has no one on here ever drove 56 in a 55 LOL??? Trust me, more people add things to their credentials than you think! I'm not preaching to be dishonest, but I have never personally seen where it says "YOU HAVE TO REPORT EVERY SINGLE CLASS YOU'VE EVER TAKEN." It's probably there somewhere though if everyone says it, so go ahead and report it and you will not get in (most likely)...but maybe you can take some grad school classes or get a master's. Maybe they'll make an exception for you since you were an officer in the military, who knows...But, again...best of luck to you man!

 

[AndrewNJ]

Well, I didn't really know the situation you were in. I mean really, we all bend the rules at times, has no one on here ever drove 56 in a 55 LOL??? Trust me, more people add things to their credentials than you think! I'm not preaching to be dishonest, but I have never personally seen where it says "YOU HAVE TO REPORT EVERY SINGLE CLASS YOU'VE EVER TAKEN." It's probably there somewhere though if everyone says it, so go ahead and report it and you will not get in (most likely)...but maybe you can take some grad school classes or get a master's. Maybe they'll make an exception for you since you were an officer in the military, who knows...But, again...best of luck to you man!

No worries Chemboy. I'd love to not report those PENN grades. And I certainly do understand how people pad their applications and resumes. I wrote and received plenty of fitreps in the Navy

Does anyone know what the Dental Schools actually see in the application? Do they only see 2 numbers, Cumulative GPA and Science GPA? Or do they get a GPA from each institution? Or even the whole transcript from each institution? I think either way, as soon as I submit the application, I'll be knocking down doors of admissions departments to try and explain why I think I deserve a look. We'll see how it goes.

 

[doc toothache]

Well, I didn't really know the situation you were in. I mean really, we all bend the rules at times, has no one on here ever drove 56 in a 55 LOL???

But we do not go around denying that we exceeded the speed limit. In any case, it can hardly be compared to acting unprofessionally while trying to get access to a professional school.

 

[dentalWorks]

Well, I didn't really know the situation you were in. I mean really, we all bend the rules at times, has no one on here ever drove 56 in a 55 LOL??? Trust me, more people add things to their credentials than you think! I'm not preaching to be dishonest, but I have never personally seen where it says "YOU HAVE TO REPORT EVERY SINGLE CLASS YOU'VE EVER TAKEN." It's probably there somewhere though if everyone says it, so go ahead and report it and you will not get in (most likely)...but maybe you can take some grad school classes or get a master's. Maybe they'll make an exception for you since you were an officer in the military, who knows...But, again...best of luck to you man!

your status says "Dental Student"... did you ever read the instructions for filling out your courses in AADSAS??? well since you missed it, heres the begining:

I am going to pretend that I didn't just read the rest of your post after the bolded.

 

[AndrewNJ]

Stopped in to the Health Professions Office at Rutgers today and got some clarification. It seems AADSAS will report my "undergrad" GPA from PENN as the 2.5 I reported, but all other course work will get reported in a "Post-bacc" GPA which will probably be more like a 3.9 than a 3.8. Hopefully that dichotomy is enough to pique their interest and look a bit closer rather than dismiss me out of hand, especially with the DAT scores.

Either way, I'll be busy contacting admissions departments for the 9-10 schools I designated to try and plead my case. Anyways, here's to hoping. 🙂

 

[Chemboy23]

---> Dentalworks...who's arguing with you??? LOL...I said since everyone said to report the GPA to go ahead and follow the rules. It will probably screw him, I was just trying to help him any way I could. Read my statement (THE REST OF IT) and you will see that I said to follow the rules (if you guys say that's what they are, I trust you), it's actually the sentence after the one you bolded out...

"It's probably there somewhere though if everyone says it, so go ahead and report it and you will not get in (most likely)...but maybe you can take some grad school classes or get a master's. Maybe they'll make an exception for you since you were an officer in the military, who knows...But, again...best of luck to you man!"

Go find something to do big guy, you can actually have a life outside of being on SDN all day...you should try it sometime.

 

[Chemboy23]

Dentalworks...What was your problem with what I said after the bold? The part about him getting a better shot because he's an officer in the military? This is true! Or the part about him going to grad school? We know this is true too...I am confused about what you found to be flattering about my statement.

 

[Chemboy23]

---> doctoothache...Look jackass, I didn't remember reading that statement in the AADSAS website. I admitted that I missed it, have you never made a mistake before? Good for you, at least some of us are perfect these days...or at least think we are anyway.

Again...read the quote! ..."It's probably there somewhere though if everyone says it, so go ahead and report it..."


I apologize that we can't all be stellar like you big guy. You should be really proud of yourself 👍

 

[NewBee12]

Congrats man these are awesome scores. With your experience and your current degree you are working on I really don't think that your GPA from PENN will affect you that much. It was 10 years ago and a totally different field.
best of luck to you.

 

[doc toothache]

---> doctoothache...Look jackass, I didn't remember reading that statement in the AADSAS website. I admitted that I missed it, have you never made a mistake before?

With the rationalization and the vocabulary you have the making of a true professional.

 

[dentalWorks]

---> Dentalworks...who's arguing with you???

Ummm... you? and I don't even know why...

I said since everyone said to report the GPA to go ahead and follow the rules. It will probably screw him, I was just trying to help him any way I could. Read my statement (THE REST OF IT) and you will see that I said to follow the rules (if you guys say that's what they are, I trust you), it's actually the sentence after the one you bolded out...

I found Your post to be distracting and unethical even though it was indirect. Anyone who is new to SDN and reads your post is going to get the hint or idea that its okay to hide a few things here and there.... or fluff up their application because (and I quote) "...more people add things to their credentials than you think"......What makes things worse is you made it seem like being honest will most likely not get them in.

Listen kido, maybe my words are going in 1 ear and leaving the other and maybe thats how it goes with most kids these days, I dunno how old you are, but I'll make an educated guess that in 10 years time, when your finally in your early 20s, you'll appreciate the honestly that most of us pre-health / health-care professional try to abide to.

SDN is a place where people come and share their experiences and help others success in fulfilling their health-care goals. If you think there is something wrong with what I am saying, by all means, invite an admin and have him/her judge.

Go find something to do big guy, you can actually have a life outside of being on SDN all day...you should try it sometime.

well, with that logic, you've literally put me out of words

Dentalworks...What was your problem with what I said after the bold? The part about him getting a better shot because he's an officer in the military? This is true! Or the part about him going to grad school? We know this is true too...I am confused about what you found to be flattering about my statement.

how about "...so go ahead and report it and you will not get in (most likely)..." What the h*** is this supposed to mean? Cause your next statement was suggesting for the OP to do a masters program, suppose the OP isn't able to do a masters... then what? They have no chance cause they were honest in their application?????

 

[AndrewNJ]

Can we dispense with the back and forth now? Its a moot point since I reported those grades and sent my transcript to AADSAS 6 weeks ago, and I wouldn't do it differently even if I could. Those grades are part of my history, AADSAS wanted them, and they got them.

I'd really rather not have this thread turn into a flame war.

 

[Chemboy23]

I was simply trying to help the guy, I wasn't trying to be unethical. I made a mistake and gave him the wrong advice, and then I turned around and suggested him not do that, since you guys proved it was there. I totally missed the statement, and I even admitted it. --->OP, I apologize for giving you "unethical" advice. I was wrong for saying all the stuff I said and I can admit it like a man. Also, (OP), I will stop posting on your thread...I can at least show you a little respect.

For dentalworks...One last thing, I was suggesting a Master's program in the case that he doesn't get into school and that GPA holds him back. If the OP gets rejected, maybe he can ask what about his application wasn't good enough, most likely the GPA. To be fair about it, he went to a pretty well thought of school (I think anyway). I was suggesting that maybe some of his military experience will compensate and give his profile a bit of "uniqueness" as you have stated too. Since his second GPA was pretty high, maybe it will balance it out a bit.

doctoothache, I'm sorry for the comment. I don't appreciate, however, you calling me "unprofessional." I felt like your attack was a personal one, so I got fired up like any normal individual would. And...if you still have an issue...we can handle it like men instead of name-calling over the silly internet, but that's all on you. Again, I was simply trying to help the guy out, that's all. I know how to take orders...after all I was in the military. I didn't just get "taddle-taled" on if/when I made a mistake, they would have taken my paycheck. I received an honorable discharge from the USN and I never got punished for acting "unprofessionally" or any other reason for that matter. I just happened to miss where it said to report EVERYTHING. I have some non-prereqs that I took at a community college (one summer) and never reported them...not to try to hide them (I made As in all of them), but because I thought they were irrelevant. I will report them now though, because the rules say so.

Good Luck to You All!!!

 

[Chemboy23]

Listen kido, maybe my words are going in 1 ear and leaving the other and maybe thats how it goes with most kids these days, I dunno how old you are, but I'll make an educated guess that in 10 years time, when your finally in your early 20s, you'll appreciate the honestly that most of us pre-health / health-care professional try to abide to.

SDN is a place where people come and share their experiences and help others success in fulfilling their health-care goals. If you think there is something wrong with what I am saying, by all means, invite an admin and have him/her judge.



First of all, I'm not a kid. Getting on SDN and making personal attacks is not my style...I'm more of a man than to go around picking on people behind a computer screen. I actually have a life outside of sitting on SDN all day while mommy pays my bills. But, if you have an issue, I'm more than willing to show you just exactly how much of a "grown up" I am. For the record, I am 27 years old...so your statement is a little off, just a little. I've been through more in life than you will ever dream about big guy. For some of us, the route to dental school is not as easy. We actually have to overcome major obstacles. For example, I never had the opportunity to go to college until I joined the military because our family couldn't afford it. We had no income from my father, he was in prison for my entire life, still is. Growing up in a house full of drugs and violence is something I dealt with on a daily basis, but I still rose above that...because I wanted a different life. Studying, as a kid, by yourself is pretty challenging. Having no support from anyone in your family for going to college is not fun either. No one in my family has ever received a degree. So, maybe some of us don't have 3.8GPAs/29 DAT scores...and we may have to bend the rules a little to make it in life. Is that wrong? I can honestly say that I put every bit of effort into getting into dental school that I possibly could. I will never give up on dentistry, because it's my dream. All of us are unethical at times, some of us are men enough to admit it and some aren't. I suffice to say that we probably aren't unethical because we WANT to be...maybe we just don't know every single rule in the book and we break one because we HAVE to. When I first started college, I was earning money delivering furniture on the side...and didn't report that to FAFSA. I got a higher grant to be able to afford attending college. If I wouldn't have done so...ends could not be met and my dream of becoming a dentist were hosed down the drain. Some people don't have the luxury of letting mommy and daddy pay their bills to allow them to be perfect and honest. I mean, if I didn't need every single penny to make things happen, I wouldn't mind reporting every figure at all. So, when you get to that crossroads in life and say to yourself (~age 18) I can either A) give my dreams up and stay in this mess and be perfectly honest (just like the government is 🙂) or B) I can be a "dishonest" person and one day...be able to provide for a family and get out of the mess I grew up in. When you have a family that's depending on you, yes...sometimes people are "unethical" and have to use extreme measures to survive. The choice I made is pretty obvious, I guess it's the wrong one as far as some are concerned, but it's easy for us to cast judgement on others if we haven't lived the life they have.

 

[doc toothache]

I was simply trying to help the guy, I wasn't trying to be unethical.

doctoothache, I'm sorry for the comment. I don't appreciate, however, you calling me "unprofessional." I felt like your attack was a personal one, so I got fired up like any normal individual would. And...if you still have an issue...we can handle it like men instead of name-calling over the silly internet, but that's all on you. Again, I was simply trying to help the guy out, that's all.

However noble your intent may have been, it helps to have a clue about a topic before you venture into dispensing some.

SDN is a place where people come and share their experiences and help others success in fulfilling their health-care goals. If you think there is something wrong with what I am saying, by all means, invite an admin and have him/her judge.


..and we may have to bend the rules a little to make it in life. Is that wrong? I can honestly say that I put every bit of effort into getting into dental school that I possibly could. I will never give up on dentistry, because it's my dream. All of us are unethical at times, some of us are men enough to admit it and some aren't. I suffice to say that we probably aren't unethical because we WANT to be...maybe we just don't know every single rule in the book and we break one because we HAVE to. When you have a family that's depending on you, yes...sometimes people are "unethical" and have to use extreme measures to survive.

Your sob story may get you some points, however, once ds find out students lied about their academic past you can pretty much bet they will be in the unemployment line before you can say ten hut. Incidentally, not gaining acceptance into ds is not exactly the end of the world.

 

[Chemboy23]

---> doc toothache

I agree with you, and I apologize for anyone who though I was misleading them to be dishonest.

I haven't been dishonest (and neither has the OP), I stated that I have sent my other three class grades in now since you guys stated the facts WRT to the AADSAS guidelines. It will make my app very late, but if that's the rules...what can we do? It will not hurt my app statistically speaking, but the delay it puts on my profile will hurt, but I want to abide by the rules.

One more thing, I'm not looking for pity from anyone. Believe it or not, people that have different life stories actually need to speak up, so that predents know that not everyone who applies is perfect...like most seem to be on here. Life would really be a boring place if all there was to a person was his/her DAT scores and GPA. Think about it. It's pretty obvious that you and I come from two very different walks of life, so I can never explain or make you understand...believe it or not, I actually use my upbringing as motivation to do better and strive to prove people who doubt me wrong.

I had a foot in at the dental school in MS, even with my low DAT scores...because I have a family member that sits on the adcom there. I don't have to be studying to retake the DAT, but I would feel bad if I didn't do as well as everyone else had to do in order to fulfill their dreams. I don't believe in anyone getting special treatment because it's unfair to other applicants. Something that's easy to get isn't worth having, IMHO. I want to prove to myself that I can do it! Not exactly the characteristics of someone who acts "unprofessionally," what do you think?

Anyways, good luck with everything...and, I meant to say earlier...thanks for keeping us updated with stats all the time.