DC to MD/DO: Anyone out there? is age 39 too old?

[Surfrider]

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Finally done with re-taking all the pre-med classes similar to a post-bac pre-med program, but instead I completed multiple undergrad degree's. But now I'm 39, totally chickened out taking the MCAT last year, therefore suffered another year delay in applying, now have to take it in Spring 2010, applying this year 2010 and will be 40 when I start medical school. Is this too old, is this dream still practicle now at age 39? Even though I've completed all the pre-req's, raised my gpa, but still have to do well on the mcat?

Here's my CV: I graduate with honors as Doctor of Chiropractic D.C. in 2000. I've been working as a Chiropractor for 10 years with extensive clinical experience and worked for M.D. for 2 years full-time before going back to school full-time. Went back to school full-time in 2006 at local CA State University, re-took all medical pre-req's and upper division Biology classes, completed a total of 124 units and graduate in Spring 2009 with a B.S in Cell/Molecular Biology, a B.S. in Medical Imaging, Minor Chemistry, and Minor in Applied Physics, all with a cum university gpa of 3.941. Received A's in all pre-med classes and every class I took since returning back to school. Also completed 2.5 years (15 units) of independent research Neural Stem Cell Lab and co-authored two research projects presented at State University Science Symposium. Also completed one original reasearch project with Neural Stem Cells and Anti-Oxidants in association to Alzheimer's Disease. Any thoughts here?

I'm concerned about my old gpa from 15-20 years ago which is 2,5 with past undergraduate work. Also my four year Chiropractic gpa was 3.4 and had over 300 units which AMCAS will add to my cum gpa for some reason. So now when looking at my past undergrad gpa 2,5, my Chiropractic gpa of 3.4 and now my current gpa 3.941, my cum is only 3.2, is this my final reported gpa? Or will my current work of 124 units compleded from 2006 to 2009 with gpa of 3.941 be given more weight?

I've heard that graduate schools mainly look at the last 60 units completed and the pre-med science gpa. Will my new pre-med science classes replace the old ones over 15-20 years ago? I havn't had time to volunteer due to full-time classes adv 15-18 units per semester during the 4 years, part-time research lab 3 units every semester for 2.5 years, and part-time clinical work as Chiropractor, self employed. Will no volunteer work hurt my application?

I needed time to rest and work full-time since graduation in May 2009, will the year off school since graduating hurt my application-don't they want pre-meds taking active classes? If I add the time off now from May 2009 to June 2010 and then time off during the rest of 2010 and until starting med-school in 2011, will this gap in taking classes hurt my application? I thought about starting a M.S. program but I heard Med Schools want you to finish what you start, so I'm a little hesitant about the M.S. program. I'm hoping that my new gpa of 3.941 over 124 units of full-time class load during the last 4 years will be enough.

Any thoughts, now that I'm on the other side of this journey. I'm feeling a little lost. Studying for the MCAT, still working as a Chiropractor, looking for volunteer/internship/new research project, already took a review last summer, feeling nervous about the MCAT even though I received A's in all pre-med classes and all upper division biology classes, but still not sure if I'm ready?

At this point, what else should I be focusing on ie besides working on MCAT in Spring 2010, my personal statement, letters of rec, AMCAS online app in May, getting transcripts in early, and submitting early June. Should I try to fit in some volunteer work right now Jan-June 2010 and the rest of 2010 too, or try to shadow/clinic internship, tutor? 😕

 

[DrMidlife]

Finally done with re-taking all the pre-med classes similar to a post-bac pre-med program, but instead I completed multiple undergrad degree's. But now I'm 39, totally chickened out taking the MCAT last year, therefore suffered another year delay in applying, now have to take it in Spring 2010, applying this year 2010 and will be 40 when I start medical school. Is this too old, is this dream still practicle now at age 39? Even though I've completed all the pre-req's, raised my gpa, but still have to do well on the mcat?

Med school isn't really practical for anybody. How practical it is for you depends on how badly you want what's on the other side of 4 years of med school, 3-5 years of residency maybe followed by fellowship, with $250k debt that likely grows to $400k before you start paying it back. Regardless, you won't be the only over-40 student in med school, not by a long shot.

Here's my CV: I graduate with honors as Doctor of Chiropractic D.C. in 2000. I've been working as a Chiropractor for 10 years with extensive clinical experience and worked for M.D. for 2 years full-time before going back to school full-time. Went back to school full-time in 2006 at local CA State University, re-took all medical pre-req's and upper division Biology classes, completed a total of 124 units and graduate in Spring 2009 with a B.S in Cell/Molecular Biology, a B.S. in Medical Imaging, Minor Chemistry, and Minor in Applied Physics, all with a cum university gpa of 3.941. Received A's in all pre-med classes and every class I took since returning back to school. Also completed 2.5 years (15 units) of independent research Neural Stem Cell Lab and co-authored two research projects presented at State University Science Symposium. Also completed one original reasearch project with Neural Stem Cells and Anti-Oxidants in association to Alzheimer's Disease. Any thoughts here?

This is all good.

As with nursing, your experience as a chiropractor will likely be considered an interesting extra-curricular experience that gives you a leg up on having a mature understanding of the medical field. Prepare your emotions accordingly as you start working on apps.

I'm concerned about my old gpa from 15-20 years ago which is 2,5 with past undergraduate work. Also my four year Chiropractic gpa was 3.4 and had over 300 units which AMCAS will add to my cum gpa for some reason. So now when looking at my past undergrad gpa 2,5, my Chiropractic gpa of 3.4 and now my current gpa 3.941, my cum is only 3.2, is this my final reported gpa? Or will my current work of 124 units compleded from 2006 to 2009 with gpa of 3.941 be given more weight?

Your old GPA is the gift that keeps on giving. It's more permanent than a tattoo, felony or bankruptcy. Your final reported GPAs will include every undergrad grade you ever received - including your chiro degree. Weighting doesn't happen until after your cumulative numbers get past autoscreens.

I've heard that graduate schools mainly look at the last 60 units completed and the pre-med science gpa.

Incorrect. AMCAS packages all 45,000 apps the same way: by summarizing your full cumulative numbers. As do AACOMAS and TMDSAS. It's up to each individual school and each individual set of eyeballs to judge your upward and recent trend after they let their threshold judge you at various stages in the admissions cycle.

Also, technically, med school is undergraduate. Med school admissions have pretty much nothing in common with law school or other professional/grad school admissions processes.

Will my new pre-med science classes replace the old ones over 15-20 years ago?

No. For MD schools, retakes don't erase old grades. For DO schools, they do. In either case, you have to list every grade you ever got in college backed up by a transcript sent by the school. All coursework shows up on the app report whether it's included in the GPAs or not.

I havn't had time to volunteer due to full-time classes adv 15-18 units per semester during the 4 years, part-time research lab 3 units every semester for 2.5 years, and part-time clinical work as Chiropractor, self employed. Will no volunteer work hurt my application?

Just look for one day, ad hoc opportunities, maybe work a fun run or other fundraiser, so that you have stuff to put in the volunteer box.

Assuming you did interesting stuff since you were 21, travel, hobbies or whatnot, your app will stand out just by having 20 more years of life on it. Prepare yourself to summarize your life in a box that holds 150 characters. Over and over and over.

I needed time to rest and work full-time since graduation in May 2009, will the year off school since graduating hurt my application-don't they want pre-meds taking active classes? If I add the time off now from May 2009 to June 2010 and then time off during the rest of 2010 and until starting med-school in 2011, will this gap in taking classes hurt my application?

You're 39; how does this apply to you?!? They don't scour your app looking for the day you decided to become a doctor and evaluate you only from this point on. You work, and that's fine. Whether you like it or not, when they look at you as a candidate you'll be "the chiropractor" regardless of what else is on your app, and the details (other than GPA) aren't going to bubble up much.

I thought about starting a M.S. program but I heard Med Schools want you to finish what you start, so I'm a little hesitant about the M.S. program. I'm hoping that my new gpa of 3.941 over 124 units of full-time class load during the last 4 years will be enough.

Let go of that 3.941 because it's not your GPA in this world. You're a 3.2; plan accordingly. And for the love of all that's holy stop using so many sig figs. 3.94 is solid. 3.941 is pedantic. You'll have endless opportunities on endless forms to call attention to your more recent performance. Use those opportunities to get people on your side, willing to fight for you.

Unless that MS is in an SMP (special masters program where you do a year of med school to prove you can do med school), it won't help you get into med school. More to the point, it won't help your undergrad cumulative GPA. Grad GPA doesn't matter much.

Any thoughts, now that I'm on the other side of this journey. I'm feeling a little lost. Studying for the MCAT, still working as a Chiropractor, looking for volunteer/internship/new research project, already took a review last summer, feeling nervous about the MCAT even though I received A's in all pre-med classes and all upper division biology classes, but still not sure if I'm ready?

At this point, what else should I be focusing on ie besides working on MCAT in Spring 2010, my personal statement, letters of rec, AMCAS online app in May, getting transcripts in early, and submitting early June. Should I try to fit in some volunteer work right now Jan-June 2010 and the rest of 2010 too, or try to shadow/clinic internship, tutor? 😕

Work on your narrative. Make sure you believe your own story. Make sure that people (preferably physicians your age) who are cynical and skeptical and think you're crazy believe your story. Start drafting your personal statement, and use drafts as collateral that you give to potential recommenders.

Make friends with the idea that the MDs (or DOs) between you and a medical degree don't have any passion whatsoever for chiropractic - more likely contempt. The most compelling part of your personal statement will be the theme that shows you value and respect the work that you've done as a DC, and that you are moving forward and away from that work into medicine as you would from accounting or opera or any other first career.

Think about getting an admissions consultant, but shop carefully.

Think about the state in which you're a resident and whether that's helping you at all. If you're in CA, that's pretty much a disaster. If you're in TX, you're golden. Think about moving to a state with a low applicant-to-seat ratio in their public med school(s), and working there long enough to set up residency.

Find out what a DO is, and shadow some, and apply to DO schools as well as MD.

Put everything you've got into the MCAT. There's no magic number, but keep in mind that 32 is average, and your GPA is a couple standard deviations below average. A high MCAT doesn't fix a low GPA, but it helps. A lot. Invest accordingly.

Best of luck to you.

 

[J ROD]

You are not too old....but I would caution you to think hard because of the age, debt, and earning potential lost as a chiro....

 

[NTF]

Midlife's advice 👍

Honestly, not much to add on top of it, except make sure you prepare an answer from an interviewer who decides to play devil's advocate and challenge the validity of chiropractic medicine.

OP, best of luck to you.

 

[WaltonG]

DrMidlife, how can I find out which states have a low applicant-to-seat ratio in their public med school(s)? And how long do I have to work there to set up residency?

 

[DrMidlife]

DrMidlife, how can I find out which states have a low applicant-to-seat ratio in their public med school(s)? And how long do I have to work there to set up residency?

Hard work.

In the past I've used the MSAR to look at applicant-to-seat. The best is Vermont. Search pre-allo for the spreadsheet that gets posted, quite illegally yet delightfully, with all the MSAR data when it comes out every year. In pre-allo you can also find old arguments about what constitutes the best state to live in, such as whether mapping the number of total applicants per state to the total number of public seats per state is indicative of reality.

Each state owns its own residency requirements. Ohio is one that lets you become a resident by going to school in Ohio, but this is an anomaly. More likely you have to have a job for a year, or own property or be married to a resident. I am particularly skeptical of "my friend got residency" comments on SDN. Read the fine print on med school websites.

Best of luck to you.

Edit: for per-state applicant tallies and similar numbers about MD school application cycles, see the fact sheets on aamc.org.

 

[Catalystik]

Search pre-allo for the spreadsheet that gets posted, quite illegally yet delightfully, with all the MSAR data when it comes out every year.

The spreadsheet referred to is no longer available, but an MSAR should be in your pre-health advising office or reference library, or can be purchased from AMCAS or amazon.com.

 

[DrMidlife]

The spreadsheet referred to is no longer available, but an MSAR should be in your pre-health advising office or reference library, or can be purchased from AMCAS or amazon.com.

Here it is: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8031855&postcount=67

 

[Catalystik]

Here it is: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8031855&postcount=67

Good find. The sticky in WAMC had been removed by the mods.

 

[ChiroDO]

I am 33 and in the process of applying to DO school at the moment. I will not graduate from Logan College of Chiropractic until August, 2010 and if all goes according to plan I will start DO school before graduation. I already got clearance to leave clinic early if I get in. Because of the precarious timing, only one school's calendar works for me... so I'm only applying to LECOM-Erie. If I don't get in for next year, I will try again for next year. I just took the January MCAT, firt time taking the test, and am hoping I did good enough. I came into the cycle late, but am still hopeful.

As far as age goes, right now I feel very old. School is beating me down, but I realize it is because it is not my passion. I'll be 34 when I enter school if I get in for fall, but so what. Yes, I'll be 42 by the time I'm done with my residency. But I'll be 42 in 8 years regardless. Do I want to spend that time doing something that pays the bills but isn't my passion or do I want to spend that time learning and training to do what my heart is longing to do? I'll take that please.

Yes, I'm going to have an obscene amount of debt. So what? As a DO, my earning potential is exponentially larger than as a DC. I will likely be able to pay off what will amount to double the loans in less time than it would have taken me to pay off just the chiropractic loans.

Will I get in? I don't know. My first round of undergrad grades are unimpressive, but they're nearly 15 years old. When all the number crunching is done I have a 3.1 Science GPA, 3.37 cumulative DC GPA, MCAT score is still pending. I also am a radiology red badge, assisting in taking x-rays, a clinician assistant in our outpatient clinic, and a Biochemistry tutor. I don't really have time for community service outside of school, so I'm hoping that my service to school counts.