Dealing with sad experiences...

[pinkyrx]

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First I should say that all of my experience is on the retail side of pharmacy, so I've seen a lot of things for the first time since I've been on rotations in the hospital.

Today was definitely one of those firsts! I was delivering meds and walked into a room only to find that the young patient I was delivering to had just passed away. I believe they had just taken him off life support and the family was saying their last goodbyes. I had noway of knowing that this had happened and felt really bad that I had disturbed them during such a sad time. Believe it or not, the door was actually wide open.

Anyway, seeing the patient and the family in that state really upset me and after I got away from the floor I actually cried. I've never seen a dead person outside of a funeral home and I guess it was just the shock of it all that got to me. I was quite embarrassed that I couldn't keep my emotions in check, considering I'm supposed to be a "healthcare professional".

Have you guys encountered things like this while on rotation? How did you handle the situation? Please tell me that seeing and dealing with things like this get easier with time or at least that you can learn to cope with it better. 🙁

 

[ZpackSux]

It does not get easier but you learn to cope better.

But everyday is a learning experience and you learn to appreciate how precious life is. When you experience what you saw today, you realize petty little things in life don't matter. Live your life to the fullest. It's yours to enjoy and you only have one life to live.

 

[pinkyrx]

Thanks for the reply! I am still so shocked at how upset I got over this. I mean I didn't know the family or the patient, it was just so very tragic.

You are right though, seeing things like this definitely puts common every day troubles into perspective!

 

[sdn1977]

No....seeing death &/or severe morbidity does not get easier with time, but, I agree with Zpak - you do learn how to cope with time & maturation.

You also learn about yourself - what you are able to do and not do.

I CANNOT & WILL NOT work in a tertiary children's hospital since I see my own children in every child who is there (and my children are both adults now). But....that does not diminish the emotions I feel when a child is brought to my ER & I have to respond for some reason. But, over 30 years.....I have learned how to keep myself together so I can still function at work & still put it in a place where I can keep it in perspective.

How do you do that? If you are on a rotation, talk with your preceptor - that is a big part of learning. Make sure you have your own support structure outside of your workplace or learning environment. Then....if you cannot let it go or if it continues to bother you - seek help or do what I did - choose your work environment so you diminsh that input which makes you the most vulnurable.

What you are going thru now, as a student is normal & natural reaction to what you are part of. This is the time to talk with your preceptor about not just pharmacology, but how to deal with the process of acute medicine & our part in it.

Good luck & don't keep it inside...!

 

[psychoandy]

They make you deliver meds on rotations? Talk about scut!

In my first instance of seeing a dead person, the pt got up to go to the bathroom, brady'd, fell and hit his head, got back up, and boom, code blue. At least you didn't get the pleasure of seeing the MDs pushing epi, performing CPR like it's going out of style,with the pt flopping everywhere, and then having them call the code. I had the "honor" of seeing that a couple of times...not a pretty sight.

The worst part about it is everyone leaves and starts joking around, like it's just a job and whatever. Coping mechanism, I know, but the family isn't around and I was like, damn, this sucks.

Afterwards, I kinda gawked, and then went outside and reflected on how something so innocuous could happen, doing something lame like hitting your head, and boom, dying in the next 10 minutes. It's really sobering, but I feel that getting exposed to it makes you realize all the good you have in life, and all that other touchy feely stuff that sdn and zpack touched on. Character building, in a really creepy and sad way.

 

[Glowwyrm]

The worst part about it is everyone leaves and starts joking around, like it's just a job and whatever. Coping mechanism, I know, but the family isn't around and I was like, damn, this sucks.

I have seen that a lot. The joking to cope. I just see it for what it is, a death, a tragedy. Then I try to remind myself that death will always be a part of life and just go on about the rest of my day. I know the people that joke do it to make themselves feel better. But it just makes me feel worse hearing the jokes. Especially if they are at the expense of the deceased. "Well I did CPR for X amount of minutes. Guess I don't have to go to the gym later. hahaha" I just don't get it. So yeah, I can understand how you would be thinking "damn this sucks" while everyone around you is joking and laughing. I'm the same way.

 

[pharmboy30]

My first was on my ICU rotation at a VA. This particular VA had curtains separating patients. The attending was a pulmonologist who was performing a bronch on the patient next bed. This poor guy was there with no family, no one around. His HR monitor kept decreasing over 5 minutes or so (I assume he was DNR and the staff knew it was a matter of time) but I just stood there watching it decrease until he flatlined, no alarms, nothing. Then some greenish foamy stuff started coming out of his mouth and nose.

It was sad, but I all I could think about is that we need to be spending more money on VA and veteran healthcare, this guy should not had to die out in the open in front of other people taking care of others.

I enjoyed both my rotations at the VA and I plan on trying to get an ambulatory/clinic position in the future. I liked talking to and helping the veterans. Most of them just want someone to talk to and I admire greatly what they have done. They deserve better.

 

[tussionex]

First I should say that all of my experience is on the retail side of pharmacy, so I've seen a lot of things for the first time since I've been on rotations in the hospital.

Today was definitely one of those firsts! I was delivering meds and walked into a room only to find that the young patient I was delivering to had just passed away. I believe they had just taken him off life support and the family was saying their last goodbyes. I had noway of knowing that this had happened and felt really bad that I had disturbed them during such a sad time. Believe it or not, the door was actually wide open.

Anyway, seeing the patient and the family in that state really upset me and after I got away from the floor I actually cried. I've never seen a dead person outside of a funeral home and I guess it was just the shock of it all that got to me. I was quite embarrassed that I couldn't keep my emotions in check, considering I'm supposed to be a "healthcare professional".

Have you guys encountered things like this while on rotation? How did you handle the situation? Please tell me that seeing and dealing with things like this get easier with time or at least that you can learn to cope with it better. 🙁

my first code was the patient's THIRD code of the morning...he ultimately did not survive...the family was there and well taken care of by pastoral services...yes, there was some gallows humor while i stood there somewhat stunned until the NP i was working with reminded me that there were other patients that needed us, too, and that it was time to go and try to help someone else...and that that was what you do in the ICU, keep trying to help

 

[Brixius]

Maybe I'm just a bit jaded myself, but I think a lot of people who say they are greatly affected by seeing a death even after seeing it every day for the last 20 years are just trying to cope with the fact that it doesn't affect them anymore.

People do get used to seeing people die and most of them are ashamed of that fact.

 

[twester]

Your reaction to that situation shows that you're empathetic which is a good quality for a health professional to have. So you're right that we have to act in certain ways, but you responded appropriately. I haven't encountered anything like that yet (professionally), but I hope I handle it as well as you did.

 

[sdn1977]

Maybe I'm just a bit jaded myself, but I think a lot of people who say they are greatly affected by seeing a death even after seeing it every day for the last 20 years are just trying to cope with the fact that it doesn't affect them anymore.

People do get used to seeing people die and most of them are ashamed of that fact.

Am I correct in interpreting this to mean that Zpack & myself are ashamed of something????

Or...are you trying to say that we outright mislead the OP as to our opinions?

I can't really tell from your post, but I'd be curious to understand what experience gives you particular insight into what my 30 years & Zpacks 15+ years have given you that ours has not given us.......?

I can appreciate if your point is that you are no longer affected by deaths - good - then you can win. But...please - do not put words in my mouth!

 

[Brixius]

Am I correct in interpreting this to mean that Zpack & myself are ashamed of something????

Or...are you trying to say that we outright mislead the OP as to our opinions?

I can't really tell from your post, but I'd be curious to understand what experience gives you particular insight into what my 30 years & Zpacks 15+ years have given you that ours has not given us.......?

I can appreciate if your point is that you are no longer affected by deaths - good - then you can win. But...please - do not put words in my mouth!

I said "there are a lot of people" that doesn't specifically mean you or Zpack or your dog ... please - don't get so defensive! More specifically, I would talking more about an ER doc or a police officer who see death ALL the time.

I don't think it's anything to be ashamed of. I think the people who are jaded are afraid others will view them as sociopaths or that they are "damaged" somehow. 99% of the time it's not the case ... other just don't understand.

BTW, I might caution you not to be so easy to excite in your responses. It's almost a waste of time to post a conflicting or alternate point of view in this forum as of late ... just relax and ask for more info if you are uncertain about something.

 

[sdn1977]

I said "there are a lot of people" that doesn't specifically mean you or Zpack or your dog ... please - don't get so defensive! More specifically, I would talking more about an ER doc or a police officer who see death ALL the time.

I don't think it's anything to be ashamed of. I think the people who are jaded are afraid others will view them as sociopaths or that they are "damaged" somehow. 99% of the time it's not the case ... other just don't understand.

BTW, I might caution you not to be so easy to excite in your responses. It's almost a waste of time to post a conflicting or alternate point of view in this forum as of late ... just relax and ask for more info if you are uncertain about something.

Are you kidding me?????😕

The OP was asking about how those of us who have been in pharmacy for awhile respond...so I responded!

I have absolutely NO uncertainties about myself & how I respond when I've encountered these situations & I've given the OP my own personal experiences of over 20 years as have others. The OP did not ask about ER personnel or police officers.

AND.....I did ask for your own experiences which led you to your assessment that those of us who have been around death for >20 years "are just trying to cope with the fact that it doesn't affect us anymore". I am truly uncertain as to how you can make that generalization. You've yet to share that.

As an advisor, I will kindly take your caution to heart. However, you might also be cautious about not stepping on toes, particularly when they can become emotional, as in the OP's case.

You are always welcome to share your own point of view, even if its conflicting or alternative. You just cannot diminish the validity others have in their own points of view or make them into something they are not.

 

[Brixius]

Are you kidding me?????😕

The OP was asking about how those of us who have been in pharmacy for awhile respond...so I responded!

I have absolutely NO uncertainties about myself & how I respond when I've encountered these situations & I've given the OP my own personal experiences of over 20 years as have others. The OP did not ask about ER personnel or police officers.

AND.....I did ask for your own experiences which led you to your assessment that those of us who have been around death for >20 years "are just trying to cope with the fact that it doesn't affect us anymore". I am truly uncertain as to how you can make that generalization. You've yet to share that.

As an advisor, I will kindly take your caution to heart. However, you might also be cautious about not stepping on toes, particularly when they can become emotional, as in the OP's case.

You are always welcome to share your own point of view, even if its conflicting or alternative. You just cannot diminish the validity others have in their own points of view or make them into something they are not.

I'm not "diminishing the validity" of anybody's experiences here. I never mentioned any of you by name. You just seem overly defensive about something ... perhaps you have personal issues you need to work on.

The OP was talking about sad experiences in general ... since police officers and doctors share many of the same type of situations, what they think seems particularly valid.

I've seen enough death to know how I am going to react to it the next time I see it. I also have quite a few friends (as I'm sure you do) who are in the same situation and I know how they really feel about death behind closed doors. You get used to it ... some people find that distrubing. I don't. Maybe you haven't gotten used to it -- fine with me, I believe you. A lot of people will say one thing to a co-worker and another to their spouse ... that's all I'm saying (as was pretty clear in both of my posts).

Expressing alternate experiences and ideas doesn't merit "stepping on toes." I hope you don't deal with conflict this way at work ... this 14 year old girl persona doesn't lead to productive outcomes, advisor.

Flame away and show me how tough you are ...

 

[sdn1977]

I'm not "diminishing the validity" of anybody's experiences here. I never mentioned any of you by name. You just seem overly defensive about something ... perhaps you have personal issues you need to work on.

The OP was talking about sad experiences in general ... since police officers and doctors share many of the same type of situations, what they think seems particularly valid.

I hope you don't deal with conflict this way at work ... this 14 year old girl response doesn't lead to productive outcomes, advisor.

Well...good luck with that!

I don't think she/he was referring to sad experiences in general - in fact, she referred to a specific incident very clearly. But - no problem, you can read it anyway you want.

I've had 30 years of productive outcomes in my profession. I'm very good at what I do & have conflict resolution down pat.

But....good luck with your career! (oh - & thanks for the psychoanalysis🙄 ).

 

[Brixius]

I don't think she/he was referring to sad experiences in general have conflict resolution down pat.

But....good luck with your career! (oh - & thanks for the psychoanalysis🙄 ).

Two things: 1) Look at the title of her post (dealing with sad experiences ... sad experiences is plural ... meaning she is referring experiences in general) and 2) Your conflict resolution "skills" must come and go much like your reading comprehension skills.

One more psychoanalysis for you: I bet you have a lot of people who love you dearly and a lot of people who dislike you greatly. Just a hunch.

 

[bananaface]

Let's keep it civil, please. 🙂

 

[Caverject]

People do get used to seeing people die and most of them are ashamed of that fact.

so what evidence do you have to go on to prove this or are you speaking out of your ass?

 

[Brixius]

so what evidence do you have to go on to prove this or are you speaking out of your ass?

Not any proof one can post onto a message board. It's just what I have heard behind closed doors ... I'll try and get a .wav file next time for you benefit.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I don't think there is any shame in admitting that one can become accustomed to dealing with death. In some situations, death is the right outcome for the patient. My experience with this is in long-term nursing care, so there were many times when I and other staff members were relieved that patients' passing ended their suffering...

This could be a good discussion. I'd like to see it continue but only in a productive manner.

 

[Glowwyrm]

In some situations, death is the right outcome for the patient.

So many people overlook this. People (medical professionals but especially family members) get so focused on *saving* the patient that they sometimes forget that death can be the best outcome in certain situations. Take a really elderly individual with very poor quality of life. The family wants CPR done. CPR may bring the elderly person back to continue on with their poor quality of life for a few more days. Now the elderly person has a poor quality of life made even worse by broken ribs. Insult to injury.

 

[acetyl]

People do get used to seeing people die and most
of them are ashamed of that fact.

Dying is a part of life that everyone knows has to happen, especially for those who work with people who are most likely to die. You go to work everyday knowing that someone may die and probably will die. Why would you be ashamed of that? Maybe if you were wishing for bad things to happen...? I don't see it, maybe I'm weird, or your colleagues are weird.

 

[Brixius]

Dying is a part of life that everyone knows has to happen, especially for those who work with people who are most likely to die. You go to work everyday knowing that someone may die and probably will die. Why would you be ashamed of that? Maybe if you were wishing for bad things to happen...? I don't see it, maybe I'm weird, or your colleages are weird.

I think it's odd also. I agree with everything you say. 🙂