Dear SDN, tell me what to do.

[KiaKia]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Hi,
This is my third year applying to vet school and it looks like I'm not getting any interviews this year. I've been reading this forum since 2009, don't usually have much to say, but now…
Last year I interviewed and was waitlisted, the year before that I got an interview but was declined. I'm struggling to figure out what to do.

I decided I wanted to follow the veterinary path right when I graduated from college (from something completely unrelated). Thankfully I'd finished most of my pre-reqs but had no veterinary experience. I did have a summer of lab animal experience, a summer of field biology experience, and was finishing up a 3-month internship as an endocrinology lab intern, after which I did a morbidity & mortality study that I presented at a vet conference last October.

Currently I have a "real job" with benefits et cetera working in marketing, and I have been a weekend vet tech assistant at an ER for ~1.5 years.

I don't know what to do – should I quit my job (38k/year, and a great entry-level if I want to stay in marketing), do internships, and work at clinics full time? Or is what I'm doing now OK, I just got unlucky, and maybe take some upper -level bio classes to raise my 3.2 GPA?


Other misc stats:

• I've volunteered at my local rescues but, although they are nice people, I couldn't shake off the feeling that they were hoarders trying to channel their hoarding instincts into doing something good
• I've shadowed equine vets and have taken some riding lessons on and off – I know I should do more of this
• There are no non-equine farms within hours of my stomping grounds, and the equines are ~1 hr away
• I keep a lookout for lab animal jobs in the nearby universities, but there's really not that much going on in that department
• I'll have to take my GRE again (1500 combined score) since that thing is getting old.
• I'm 25 now, live with my immediate family, and save ~50% of my income
• I really don't want to get a masters degree (unless it's statistics or engineering related)

Thanks for any advice! AND GOOD LUCK WITH INTERVIEWS

I double majored in cogsci (in my case that meant neuroscience) and applied math/statistics
No matter how you slice it, I'm getting a 3.2 GPA in pre-vet courses. I was a B+/A- student.

The hours:
Lab Animal Care: 60
Shark lab assistant: ~10
Field Biology: 400
Wildlife Rehab volunteer: ~100
Barn work: ~20

Veterinary/Research (no contact with animals, just their pee/poo/necropsy reports): 800
Equine vet shadow: ~30
Vet Tech Assistant (ER, small animal): 650 hrs

 

[sumstorm]

Can you explain the 3.2? how are your science grades?

 

[KiaKia]

I was an applied math/statistics major with too many extracurriculars taking biochem on the side?
I probably would have done better if I were a biology student, and everything would have tied together, but in reality I wanted to get my problem sets done and the bio stuff I was doing for personal enrichment.

 

[KiaKia]

maybe I should get a masters degree :/

 

[OH Bunny Girl]

Some universities will let you take graduate level classes to strengthen your GPA without officially enrolling in a graduate program. (I had friends who did this.)

 

[Bisbee]

Have you tried schools out of the US? Many people have had much luck looking in that direction.

 

[StartingoverVet]

The more info you can provide the better:

*Last 45 gpa
*pre-req gpa
*hours listed for vet and animal experience.
*Which schools did you apply to? Are you IS anywhere? Are there limits on where you apply.
* how do you explain your interest in vet-med in your PS.

Where you apply really affects what is relevant!
Sorry but you seem like you should have a shot, and I think we all would want to see what is the biggest issue.

Also, have you asked for file reviews to see what adcoms see as your weaknesses?

 

[KiaKia]

hours added up top.
I've never done a file review, have applied to ~10 schools each cycle, and never applied to an out-of-USA school, except Edinburgh once, to which I got an interview.

I'm in Florida
I'd like to do lab animal medicine.

 

[StartingoverVet]

First off, I wouldn't quit your job if I were you (others may disagree). Admissions is a tricky game, and I am not sure the "all-in" approach is appropriate these days. Saving money is not a bad thing.

I think demonstrating an ability to do well in upper-level classes always helps. Can you take 1 or 2 classes during the week at a school nearby?

One issue with someone who already has a lot of different things in the app, is how focused is your PS. Are you interested in research? Do you want to be a clinician? Do you have any idea what you plan on doing and why? It is really important to be seen moving forward in some direction. Diversity is important (at some schools), but having it together is important at all schools.

 

[KiaKia]

Aside from a few misc. things (like the horse stuff) and my vet assistant job, all my animal experience is with PhDs. - my PS is all about how much I love working with PhDs, how I don't want to be one, but would like to be involved in that world as the person that looks after the animals and gives professional advice/input on management and care.

The reason I was doing the field work (bottlenose dolphins) and the lab work (electric fish, sharks) was because I wanted to get a related graduate degree and study more active sensory systems (echolocation in dolphins, electroreception in electric fish and elasmobranches). I know bats (echolocation) are way easier to study but for some reason it was easier to find aquatics labs to take me than bat labs.

The non-animal lab experience ties in pretty well, I was basically treated like a masters student and I learned how to do labwork and "think like a scientist", plus I got a poster out of it (and hopefully a publication once the 3rd author finally gets done working on his part).

 

[Katie8]

I'll throw my two cents in, but I'm by no means the guru of admissions.

I think I would approach your PS differently. I am in a similar situation. this is my second application cycle and about 75-80% of my experience and current work is all under PhD or MD researchers. I think it might be clear from your experience that you enjoy working with PhD's but being a veterinarian isn't necessarily drawing a line between the two, as veterinarians perfom quite a bit of research and scientific discovery should they chose too and can also pursue PhD's. The way you phrase your first sentence describing what your personal statement is about sends me the wrong vibe so to speak; that being a vet would allow you to not be like a PhD researcher. I would use your PhD experience as more of a positive, like how great of an insight it provided you rather than it demonstrated to you that you don't want to pursue this kind of career. Or explain how while you enjoyed "this" aspect of PhD related study, you find yourself drawn to "this" type of veterinary work based on a different animal experience you've had. Having not read your PS, I could totally be way off with my suggestions and I don't want to imply your central theme is stating one thing if it is in fact not, but just thought I'd throw that out there just in case.

I have been working full-time with benefits in my research lab for the past two years and considered quitting and focusing solely on gaining more animal experience. But, in the end, I needed the security of a job, and spent all of my waking free-time gaining other volunteer animal work. I just couldnt imagine not being able to support myself or live without benefits and I truly believed that I could make it work and an admissions committee would eventually see that.

I also did not want to pursue a masters degree (3.3ish undergrad GPA, 3.45ish science GPA). Mostly because I knew I wanted to apply to veterinary school before I would finish one. I enrolled in online classes to retake a couple science courses to boost both of the GPA categories. I won't lie, my life was so stressful for a good year and a half; working full-time, enrolled in two classes at a time, and volunteering 20+ hours a week. (I also lived with my parents to save money, yikes, we all know how fun that can be at times).

That being said, I've been accepted to two schools this application cycle and am still waiting to hear from 4 more. So to sum up this post, I don't think you need to quit your job to get into veterinary school. Keep trying. Keep pushing yourself for what you want. Schools will see your drive and even though you have your current job in marketing, I like to believe that admissions realize not everyone has the options or financial security to spend all of their time gaining veterinary experience. Should you need to reapply, have people on here read your personal statement, make sure YOU are coming across. I found that my personal statement was my biggest problem with my application the first time I applied. It made zero sense and it wasn't me. I didn't come through and my passions didn't come through. For this second cycle, I think that was the most difficult part for me, as I have a hard time expressing myself and being able to write effectively.

Sorry for the epically long reply, but I hope this in some way gives your a morale boost. I know the admissions game can be tricky, but Veterinary school will happen for you! You have a lot of impressive experiences, I wish I could give you the answer that will make it happen!

 

[KizmetRanch]

I would recommend raising your GPA with upper level science courses (you certainly seem capable of it!) and getting in as much hands-on animal time as possible, whether it's paid or volunteer, horses or llamas or dogs or rabbits or lions. I don't think you need to quit your job to do any of that, and I don't think you should, either.
Good luck.

 

[tuckervet]

I strongly recomend doing as many file reviews as you can. Some of them may be vague, and some may just say your numbers aren't competitive enough (I'm not saying that, just saying that some file reviews can be like that), but at least one or two will give you an honest idea of what you can/should do before applying again. I think that if you then follow that advice, the next time you apply your application will be a little more of what they are wanting, and I think some schools will refer to your old application and see that you are making the right kind of changes.

 

[ANY2003]

Honestly, if it's something you want to do you are going to need to make sacrifices. Now, I'm not telling you to quit your job, but just evaluate what you want to do. If you want to get into vet school, you are going to have to quit that job anyway. Is it a job or a career? Do you think you can get a paid position at a veterinary clinic?
I don't know if this helps, but I'll tell you my story. I was enrolled in a PhD program for something completely unrelated. Life was good, I had my entire tuition paid for plus the university paid me a stipend to live off of. I didn't have to worry about bills or student debt. However, I realized I was in the wrong field and decided to leave my program. I started volunteering at a local veterinary clinic and after amassing a certain level of experience, was able to find a paying job. Now, it was pretty much minimum wage but I had to make sacrifices to get where I wanted to be. After a year and a half, I was able to find a better paying job that paid me $5 more an hour (still nothing, but a heck of a lot better than minimum wage!). Yes, I had to eat ramen every night but it was worth it. I have 1 acceptance, 1 wait list, and 4 more interviews lined up.
AND my GPA isn't that great. During my first 2 years of college, I got almost straight C's - which unfortunately included gen chem, o-chem, some lower division bio, and math. What I did to prove to the universities that I was a worthy student was I retook some of those classes to a) refresh my memory and b) get a better grade. Basically what it said was, "listen, I know I was a lazy student 7 years ago, but I've retaken those classes to prove that I'm not that kind of student anymore and to enhance my understanding of the subject material."
So what would I do if I was in your shoes? I would look for a paying position (and even unpaid if there is an opportunity to get hired first). I wouldn't necessarily quit my job until I had saved up some and found something else. I would also retake any classes that I got less than a B in. You can also take extra upper division bio classes as electives to help boost your GPA. Also, think about your situation from the point of view of the admissions board: they see you have a good-paying job in an unrelated field and various veterinary experience. However, veterinary medicine hasn't been your LIFE. They may question your commitment.

I can't tell you what to do, no one really can. You have to evaluate for yourself how badly you want it and what it would realistically take to get accepted. Once you quit your job, you may not be able to go back. You have to really think about whether you are positive that a career in veterinary medicine is the right path for you.

 

[that redhead]

Aside from a few misc. things (like the horse stuff) and my vet assistant job, all my animal experience is with PhDs. - my PS is all about how much I love working with PhDs, how I don't want to be one, but would like to be involved in that world as the person that looks after the animals and gives professional advice/input on management and care.

I hate to say it, but it may be that your PS doesn't demonstrate why you want to do vet med and not just animal care. I worked as a lab animal tech and I took care of the animals and had input on management and care since the vet was busy with administrative stuff, etc moreso than animal care - didn't need my DVM to do it. Plus you say you "don't want to be a PhD" but did you go into why the difference? A PhD has roughly the equivalent in time committment as vet school and has a ton of involvement and dedication involved, just like vet med. How did you draw the line there?

Nyanko would be a good person to PM about this sort of thing 🙂

 

[lostbunny]

I sorta agree with that redhead on this one. I went through most of the replies, and read all of your posts, kiakia, and the thing that screams out to me most is your lack of vet related experience (did you apply during the last session with all this vet/tech assistant-in-an-er experience on your application?).

You mentioned you don't really want to get a MSc, but it seems you're really into research. The majority of your experience is research related, so from just reading what you wrote, I'm getting mixed messages. You want to study vet med, but you want to work in a lab (which is totally cool), you have tons of research/lab experience with non-vets, and only limited (in comparison to the rest of your experience) experience with vet med in general. Also, much of the vet program is biology related, and you said you only want to do a MSc in stats/eng, so are you more interested in stats and eng as opposed to bio and biochem?

I'm not doubting you or questioning your reasons to be a vet, but this is just what I found most obvious. This is coming from a similar-ish situation as I'm also 25 and will be going through my 3rd cycle of applications. Last year I was 'wait-listed' and eventually rejected. I contacted the admissions office and actually got in contact with some of the DVM reviewers, and they all said my application is quite strong, my intent (PS) is strong, the only thing lacking is the consistency of my marks. I have everything from A's to even 1 fail and it just doesn't show that I can handle a vet science curriculum. So as a result, I've decided to take a 1 year graduate program to up my marks, and apply again.

So others have mentioned to get file reviews, these definately *help* alot!! It helps you get another perspective, an outsiders view (as opposed to all us lovely SDNers!), and will help you get on track. Contact all the schools you applied to and get reviews. Also, if you have the funds or interest, I've been finding that some of the international schools tend to be more 'lenient' on experience. Not to say holding a hamster is sufficient, but in comparison to some of the American schools. I think the International schools (and I'm sure that goes for internationals applying to American schools as well) have a different way of reviewing applications because everyone is coming from such incredibly different backgrounds, countries and cultures. So its harder to fit everyone into a neat package and thus they tend to look at your entire application as a whole. So this might be an idea where your lab/research experience may help you a TON.

best of luck 🙂


ETA:
about your PS (under the quote that redhead put up), you want to be the person that looks after the animals/gives advice. There are very well paid technicians/nurses that do this, and also lab assistants. At least they do the care part. So you need to explain less about PhD people and talk about more why you want to be a vet, and why you'd make an impact on the veterinary community as a vet.

 

[KiaKia]

Plus you say you "don't want to be a PhD" but did you go into why the difference? A PhD has roughly the equivalent in time committment as vet school and has a ton of involvement and dedication involved, just like vet med. How did you draw the line there?

That's pretty much what I talked about.

In college and as a voluneer at various places a lot of my friends were getting their doctorates, and sure, they like research and generally thought their topics were interesting and worthy of research, but the general acceptance that they'd have to move around the country to do post-docs, more post-docs, associate professorships, more moving around the country...that was too much. Plus compared to the vet staff they were all so darn depressed.

A few years later, now they have their PhDs, and are travelling around the country, doing postdocs, trying to find a home. I don't want to take the chance I'd end up like one of them. (The ones who got their doctorates in chemistry, physics, or BME are doing fine though, with industry jobs)

As a veterinarian/computer programmer/grant writer/secretary/machinist you get the investment in whatever science is going on in the lab, meet and talk to lab geeks (which I like), but have the option of leaving research if you get sick of it or funding dries up without having to completely change your skill set.

 

[KiaKia]

kiakia, and the thing that screams out to me most is your lack of vet related experience (did you apply during the last session with all this vet/tech assistant-in-an-er experience on your application?).

Yep.
I didn't expect to get in the first two times AT ALL due to my lack of experience and was certainly surprised to get interviews.

This year - really vet schools? Now that I've been getting a paycheck from a vet clinic for a while you don't give me an interview?

Also, much of the vet program is biology related, and you said you only want to do a MSc in stats/eng, so are you more interested in stats and eng as opposed to bio and biochem?

Math undergrad + MSc in stats/eng = higher paycheck, less school

 

[nyanko]

What that little blurb you just wrote says to me, and take this with a grain of salt as I'm obviously not an admissions committee member or anybody remotely important, is that your life around your career is more important to you than your career.

Which is fine and good, and how most people of our generation are turning out to be. However that is not what you should be writing about in a personal statement. This is where you actually talk about why vet med, not why not everything else. You have got to muster up some passion for this particular field in your personal statement if you aren't an otherwise stellar applicant. If you can't elaborate reasons there, of all places, aside from "it's more stable than research as a Ph.D.," then I'd personally be hard pressed to give you a spot over someone else with a more convincing reason.

 

[KiaKia]

This is where you actually talk about why vet med, not why not everything else. You have got to muster up some passion for this particular field in your personal statement if you aren't an otherwise stellar applicant. If you can't elaborate reasons there, of all places, aside from "it's more stable than research as a Ph.D.," then I'd personally be hard pressed to give you a spot over someone else with a more convincing reason.

Yeah I know, that's a tough one.

I generally suck at expressing passion across all aspects of life.

 

[that redhead]

Yeah I know, that's a tough one.

I generally suck at expressing passion across all aspects of life.

If it makes you feel any better, I didn't think my PS was an awesome, passion-filled essay. I found that while I knew I wanted to be a vet, I had a hard time articulating the why. For you, part of the problem is (I'd imagine) that the adcoms see someone who switched from another field to vet med - what prompted that decision? How do they know that you know what you want? And instead of showing them that you've got some experience and learned about the field, you tell them that you just know that being a PhD seems to suck from what you can tell from your friends' lives. I don't want to kick you while you're down, so in a nutshell, my advice would be to retool that personal statement and get more experience. I don't think the GPA is the biggest problem for your application, but the file reviews would tell you that for sure.

 

[lostbunny]

kia kia, why not try getting some experience in a lab with a vet?

Does working at the vet clinic give you any satisfaction? Do you enjoy working with the pets, dvm/team, surgery? Maybe stop looking back on your research experience and start capitalizing on your vet experience. You don't need to stop you life to scrub cages, but just broaden your vet experience. The equine vets are 1h away, but if you can drive, take a weekend to shadow a vet. Basically get out there, you want to be a vet so start living vicariously through them!

What are your personal reasons for pursuing DVM besides the more stable lifestyle? (you don't have to answer this one on here, but just ask yourself)

 

[LetItSnow]

A few years later, now they have their PhDs, and are travelling around the country, doing postdocs, trying to find a home. I don't want to take the chance I'd end up like one of them. (The ones who got their doctorates in chemistry, physics, or BME are doing fine though, with industry jobs)

A few random thoughts....

• Without reading your actual PS, this may not be relevant, but I would avoid talking about why you don't want to do one thing in favor of vet med - I would focus your PS solely on why you DO want to do vet med. First, that's the more important angle. And second, a lot of people reading your PS are likely to be MS or PhD people: they may not have a great reaction to a "I don't want to be like that" approach, regardless of how well you present it. Whether it's rational or not, they may even think something like "If this person couldn't handle the PhD route, they probably can't handle vet school."
• Keep your job. Giving it up to take a lesser-paying job in the vet field doesn't seem like it'd be worth it.
• Throw together a few weeks full-time equivalent shadowing in a few clinical arenas (equine, like you mentioned, maybe small animal, whatever). Then point all the rest of your time at whatever area of interest you're expressing in your PS. Find a lab vet who does what you want to do and glob onto them.
• Do a file review!!!!! Find out why the schools haven't accepted you yet! You have nothing to lose by that process. At worst, they don't give you useful information.
• I'd hold off on taking more classes, unless some admissions director in a file review says to do it. A 3.2 might be a bit low, but it's still reasonable for quite a number of schools.

If you got to the interview step, then you're right there on the edge and should feel hopeful going forward. And I think the fact that in the middle of frustration and disappointment you took the time to wish other candidates good luck says a lot about you.

 

[Ben and Me]

Sorry if this has already been stated, but what about looking into a Masters in Lab Animal Science degree? We've got 2-3 in my class who got their MLAS from Drexel -- I get the feeling that they used it to strengthen their application and get some grad-level coursework on their transcript. Not sure how it works at other schools, but the fact that we have 2 or 3 graduates from the same degree program in my class says something, I think. It would also help cement your interest in Lab Animal Medicine and might make you more competitive for a lab animal residency down the road -- check with Chris0303 (or whatever the numbers are) -- I think she just finished up a lab animal residency.

Edited to add -- the one that I know of had a lot of veterinary experience in addition to her MLAS, just FYI. I don't think the MLAS is going to help with your lack of veterinary experience, but it may cement your interest in lab animal medicine (and demonstrate that interest to adcoms) and balance out your undergrad GPA.

 

[KiaKia]

To sum up:

• Get more clinical experience. Clinical experience in small animal emergency is growing nicely
• Shadow different types of vets - hard to do since I have two jobs, but I'll make the most of my Saturdays.
• Take some courses. I can figure that one out, night school et cetera.
• Don't focus on the fact that I obviously wanted to do something else with my life before I discovered vet med. With this one, I always tried to show(in my PS) that I thought I wanted a PhD, but what I really wanted all along was a DVM. And it's true, too.
• Learn how to be more enthusiastic online. I mean leapin lizards everyone, would I be a 2+ year member considering quitting my job to scrub cages if I wasn't? Most of the reason I don't have more experience is that it took forever to find a job - ANY JOB - with the economy tanking and clinics closing left and right, and my area doesn't seem to like volunteer workers for insurance reasons.

Anyways, thanks for all your input.


Unexpected fun fact about me: If you ever read "The Laboratory Ferret", I wrote the back cover.

 

[cayvet]

Hi,
This is my third year applying to vet school and it looks like I’m not getting any interviews this year. I’ve been reading this forum since 2009, don’t usually have much to say, but now…

Have you looked at the option of schools like St. Matthew's that looks at more than just grades, including the entire work experience, etc. See www.stmatthews.edu for more info.

 

[lostbunny]

To sum up:

• Get more clinical experience. Clinical experience in small animal emergency is growing nicely
• Shadow different types of vets - hard to do since I have two jobs, but I'll make the most of my Saturdays.
• Take some courses. I can figure that one out, night school et cetera.
• Don't focus on the fact that I obviously wanted to do something else with my life before I discovered vet med. With this one, I always tried to show(in my PS) that I thought I wanted a PhD, but what I really wanted all along was a DVM. And it's true, too.
• Learn how to be more enthusiastic online. I mean leapin lizards everyone, would I be a 2+ year member considering quitting my job to scrub cages if I wasn't? Most of the reason I don't have more experience is that it took forever to find a job - ANY JOB - with the economy tanking and clinics closing left and right, and my area doesn't seem to like volunteer workers for insurance reasons.

Anyways, thanks for all your input.


Unexpected fun fact about me: If you ever read "The Laboratory Ferret", I wrote the back cover.

Good sum up- but be careful not to spread yourself tooo thin. I think your first step should be to get file reviews. If most of the schools say your marks are fine but blah blah, then don't bother with the night courses because they'll just take up more of your time. Know what I mean? I really think the file reviews will at least be able to give you some direction, and rather then jumping all over the place and trying to do everything, you can focus more on what the weakest part of your application is. Good luck!!!

 

[VET 2008]

KiaKia, I am sorry for my previous post. But I do still think that you should consider another career if you think you can be happy in another career. If not, go for vet med!

 

[Megascops Asio]

I generally suck at expressing passion across all aspects of life.

I'm not sure I'd say that its strictly a lack of passion that's the problem. If your essays and personal statement sound anything like all you've described in this thread, I would say the bigger problem is that you seem to be focusing way too much on what you don't want to do. You need to be able to clearly, and firmly, describe what it is about vet medicine that makes you want to study it. Because it seems to me (and I am completely willing to be told that I am reading everything incorrectly) that if I were to ask you in person why you wanted to get into vet school, you'd respond with something like "yeah, well, I thought about doing yadda yadda, but, you know, there's [this list of reasons why I don't want to do that]....aaaaaaand...vet med seems like something, you know, I guess I could do and enjoy." It kind of seems that vet med is a consolation prize for someone who isn't sure what they want to do.

So, yeah. I think you need to make sure you could tell anyone why you want to become a vet without mentioning the negatives of other fields. Focus on being able to do that first, then work on being able to convey yourself with passion.

 

[LetItSnow]

Shadow different types of vets - hard to do since I have two jobs, but I'll make the most of my Saturdays.

It's a PITA, isn't it? I had to scratch together my experience working a full-time job, going to school, and helping raise some spawn of LetItSnow.

People gave you a lot of suggestions, but don't be grumpy about feeling like you have to do ALL of it. Prioritize the most valuable and chop off what you can handle.

Unexpected fun fact about me: If you ever read "The Laboratory Ferret", I wrote the back cover.

Lol. That's awesome. I burned 6 seconds of my 15 minutes of fame on the Tonight Show when Jay Leno read a headline I wrote in my newspaper days for one of the 'stupid headline' segments. The headline was something like "Planning commission plans to plan city plan"..... sadly, it was intentional and exactly correct.

 

[mooshagen]

SERIOUSLY, consider a different field. With many schools increasing the class size and the decreased number of applicants, you would think you would be more likely to get an interview. Yet, you don't. You should do something else.

The future of vet med is GRAVE. Many recent grads (half of one 2011 class) do not have jobs and it is only going to get worse because vet schools are popping up and they are increasing their class size. Even specialists cannot get jobs. Debt is increasing. The supply of vets is increasing while the demand is decreasing, resulting in even lower pay than a few years ago.

Depressing.

 

[August West]

SERIOUSLY, consider a different field. With many schools increasing the class size and the decreased number of applicants, you would think you would be more likely to get an interview. Yet, you don't. You should do something else.

The future of vet med is GRAVE. Many recent grads (half of one 2011 class) do not have jobs and it is only going to get worse because vet schools are popping up and they are increasing their class size. Even specialists cannot get jobs. Debt is increasing. The supply of vets is increasing while the demand is decreasing, resulting in even lower pay than a few years ago.

Biting my tongue. Sorry about your luck. And best wishes on your next career. Biting my tongue again...😍

 

[August West]

Depressing.

But he or she has "resident" next to their name. It qualifies them to go onto a pre-veterinary board and act like a complete dick. C'mon. Oops, biting tongue... 😉

 

[mooshagen]

.

 

[VET 2008]

Biting my tongue. Sorry about your luck. And best wishes on your next career. Biting my tongue again...😍

And I wish you all luck!

 

[VET 2008]

But he or she has "resident" next to their name. It qualifies them to go onto a pre-veterinary board and act like a complete dick. C'mon. Oops, biting tongue... 😉

I am just trying to warn you about choosing vet medicine.

The debt load, the job market, the poor quality of life are not going to make vet med a good career choice for most all people. How do you expect to pay your student loans if you can't find a job when you are done? Half of X vet school 2011 class is STILL unemployed. People with specialty training cannot find a job.

And the debt load is increasing by crazy amounts! Subsidized student loans are gone. The class size of many schools is increasing significantly. That just means more supply of vets who can't get jobs and this drives down the pay even more.

What about the people who go to Ross, Saint Georges or are out of state? They owe $200,000+. You can't pay that if you can't find a job. I am not talking about having money to spend so you can go on vacation. I am talking about money so you can retire, buy a house.

 

[Bisbee]

But he or she has "resident" next to their name. It qualifies them to go onto a pre-veterinary board and act like a complete dick. C'mon. Oops, biting tongue... 😉

I don't think you need to resort to inappropriate language and name-calling just because someone's opinion (in this case expert opinion) is not what you want to hear. He/she is only describing the way he/she sees things from her vantage point. I know it's not encouraging, and maybe there is some amount of pessimism, but let's be open-minded and a little more polite.

 

[2CatMatt]

I don't think you need to resort to inappropriate language and name-calling just because someone's opinion (in this case expert opinion) is not what you want to hear. He/she is only describing the way he/she sees things from her vantage point. I know it's not encouraging, and maybe there is some amount of pessimism, but let's be open-minded and a little more polite.

VET 2008 post is completely off topic and trolling on this thread. Let's not take the bait, ignore and move on.

KiaKia, just wanted to reiterate that I agree with everyone else that your first step should be file reviews. We can all give you our best ideas for what each school wants to see, but only they can tell you. And it might be different for each school what to prioritize on the list of things to improve your app. Overall though, my suggestion would be to not quit your job unless you have another one lined up. Vet schools do not want people risking their livelihood to "prove" they are committed to vet med, even if it is in a completely unrelated field. You can show that commitment by doing all the other things mentioned here in the evenings or on the weekend.

 

[August West]

I am just trying to warn you about choosing vet medicine.

The debt load, the job market, the poor quality of life are not going to make vet med a good career choice for most all people. How do you expect to pay your student loans if you can't find a job when you are done? Half of X vet school 2011 class is STILL unemployed. People with specialty training cannot find a job.

And the debt load is increasing by crazy amounts! Subsidized student loans are gone. The class size of many schools is increasing significantly. That just means more supply of vets who can't get jobs and this drives down the pay even more.

What about the people who go to Ross, Saint Georges or are out of state? They owe $200,000+. You can't pay that if you can't find a job. I am not talking about having money to spend so you can go on vacation. I am talking about money so you can retire, buy a house.

I am sure people will manage in the same fashion that you did. Or was your employment bestowed upon you by some form of divine intervention?

 

[2CatMatt]

I am sure people will manage in the same fashion that you did. Or was your employment bestowed upon you by some form of divine intervention?

I guess the bait was taken. Is it that hard to not respond?

 

[Bill59]

KiaKia, just wanted to reiterate that I agree with everyone else that your first step should be file reviews.

This. And if UF is your in-state school, I would start there. That's usually your best shot at getting in.

 

[FutResearchVet]

That's pretty much what I talked about.

In college and as a voluneer at various places a lot of my friends were getting their doctorates, and sure, they like research and generally thought their topics were interesting and worthy of research, but the general acceptance that they'd have to move around the country to do post-docs, more post-docs, associate professorships, more moving around the country...that was too much. Plus compared to the vet staff they were all so darn depressed.

A few years later, now they have their PhDs, and are travelling around the country, doing postdocs, trying to find a home. I don't want to take the chance I'd end up like one of them. (The ones who got their doctorates in chemistry, physics, or BME are doing fine though, with industry jobs)

As a veterinarian/computer programmer/grant writer/secretary/machinist you get the investment in whatever science is going on in the lab, meet and talk to lab geeks (which I like), but have the option of leaving research if you get sick of it or funding dries up without having to completely change your skill set.

Here's my two cents... take it or leave it.

I am in a sort of similar situation as you.... I was actually interested in going to vet school before college, then I got interested in research, but then realized that I wanted to be a lab animal medicine vet (this was after I was already half was done my PhD, which I am now finishing up before I start vet school). So I understand the difficulties related to going the research route. But there are several things to keep in mind:

1) Many of the adcoms are PhDs (not just the combined DVM/PhDs, but straight up PhDs with RO1 grants/ big labs/ famous in their field), so basically telling them in your personal statement that PhDs are more depressed and you don't want to be one sounds very negative and as if vet medicine is better than research, which equals rejection.

2) To be a good (make that excellent) lab animal vet, you have to fully understand the research (and in many cases participate in the research) that is being conducted... which means reading papers, writing papers, understanding and dealing with the frustrations of the researchers, etc. Even the head vet where I work has to partake in base grant writing so that the center gets money for the animals.

3) You don't have to work in academia to do biology research. Many pharmaceutical companies hire physiologists, toxicologist, pathologists, etc and these researchers have awesome pay and benefits. I worked for a big pharmaceutical company in college that had a large reproductive toxicology and endocrinology department. The government also hires lots of biology researchers.

4) "As a veterinarian/computer programmer/grant writer/secretary/machinist you get the investment in whatever science is going on in the lab, meet and talk to lab geeks (which I like), but have the option of leaving research if you get sick of it or funding dries up without having to completely change your skill set."
This totally confuses me. Do you want to be a vet, or a computer programmer, or a grant writer (keep in mind researchers spend much of their time grant writing, in fact, that is how they get funding)... etc.

How do you know you won't get sick of vet med? What will you do then?

You don't have to completely change your skill set to become a vet. Many of the skills I learned doing my PhD are very related to vet medicine and will be helpful once I become a lab animal vet... i.e. learning how to problem solve and answer questions that are not text book during my PhD is an essential skill for a vet (I think most vet school even have a class on this).

5) There's a good chance that you'll have to move somewhere to find a lab animal vet job, unless you already live in a place with a big research university or pharmaceutical company/government... assuming they have job openings when you are ready to apply.

Something to think about.... once a researcher gets tenured, they pretty much have job security for life... how many vets can say the same thing?

 

[flyhi]

I've never done a file review, have applied to ~10 schools each cycle, and never applied to an out-of-USA school, except Edinburgh once, to which I got an interview.

Why no file review? That is a critical piece of the puzzle, otherwise you may have been spinning your wheels.

Edinburgh...not trying to stir the pot, but they haven't interviewed international applicants for at least the last 2 years.. when was this? And, what happened? They are pretty favorable to international students, especially if they offered an interview. Was it in the States or over there?

 

[sumstorm]

In college and as a voluneer at various places a lot of my friends were getting their doctorates, and sure, they like research and generally thought their topics were interesting and worthy of research, but the general acceptance that they'd have to move around the country to do post-docs, more post-docs, associate professorships, more moving around the country...that was too much. Plus compared to the vet staff they were all so darn depressed.

A few years later, now they have their PhDs, and are travelling around the country, doing postdocs, trying to find a home. I don't want to take the chance I'd end up like one of them. (The ones who got their doctorates in chemistry, physics, or BME are doing fine though, with industry jobs)

As a veterinarian/computer programmer/grant writer/secretary/machinist you get the investment in whatever science is going on in the lab, meet and talk to lab geeks (which I like), but have the option of leaving research if you get sick of it or funding dries up without having to completely change your skill set.

OK, take this with a big block of salt; read what you wrote and ask yourself 'if I didn't know this person, would I want to work with them day in and day out?' In reading your post above, I feel like you may not have a really strong grasp on the issues facing vet med or the reality of lab animal medicine. Vet med has a huge issue with depression; a lack of awareness of that suggests an applicant needs to do some more research. Right now, the ability to relocate is hugely beneficial for finding employment, and many vets change jobs (+/- location) several times in the first couple of years of employment, add on the issue of non-compete clauses, and the distribution of lab animal jobs and relocation may be the order of the day (and could even be part of a company relocation.) Additionaly, it is presumptious to think you could spend a decade of time in one field of vet med, computer programing, grant writing, etc and easily switch fields a decade later. It is possible, but most of the time you are still going to have to reinvest significant time and energy into re-educating yourself, particularly with veterinary medicine changing so rapidly (ie half of what you learn in 4 years at vet school will be inaccurate when you graduate.) The same is true in the computer industry; it is far more specialized than it seems, and my husband is hitting the walls with this because his resume basicly says 'financial industry data security' despite having a ton of experience in medical field data security and credit industry data security. A few years in a given field can make diversifying or changing pretty difficult (and you would need to reframe it again as why you want to be in the new field, not that your are abandoning the old field.)

I think you have to prove you can really rock the course work, that you can see a path but are flexible about variations, that you are a team player and a leader, and that you know what you are getting into (as much as possible.)

 

[libster06]

Why no file review? That is a critical piece of the puzzle, otherwise you may have been spinning your wheels.

Yea. I have to say while, if I were you, I would have done a file review after the first go round but I really don't know why you wouldn't have done one after the second go round. Like... really can't wrap my head around that. But um, anyways, yea that'd be job #1.

Subsidized student loans are gone.

Errmmm... are they? I'm pretty sure they were going to be and then Obama changed his mind.

 

[bayarea15]

To sum up:

• Get more clinical experience. Clinical experience in small animal emergency is growing nicely
• Shadow different types of vets - hard to do since I have two jobs, but I'll make the most of my Saturdays.
• Take some courses. I can figure that one out, night school et cetera.
• Don't focus on the fact that I obviously wanted to do something else with my life before I discovered vet med. With this one, I always tried to show(in my PS) that I thought I wanted a PhD, but what I really wanted all along was a DVM. And it's true, too.
• Learn how to be more enthusiastic online. I mean leapin lizards everyone, would I be a 2+ year member considering quitting my job to scrub cages if I wasn't? Most of the reason I don't have more experience is that it took forever to find a job - ANY JOB - with the economy tanking and clinics closing left and right, and my area doesn't seem to like volunteer workers for insurance reasons.

Anyways, thanks for all your input.


Unexpected fun fact about me: If you ever read "The Laboratory Ferret", I wrote the back cover.

I will try to read the book.

I quit my $20/hr job to clean cages for $8/hr. I do hope its a decision I don't live to regret.