Death by nitrogen hypoxia

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ASA6 said:
The supreme Court of California overturned all deaths sentences on a different case, not just hers. When Reagan was the president. Her second trial was actually a mistrial, and her third was 7 years to life with parole. She was never sentenced to life without parole.

And we can agree the second example shouldn't be released. But he did serve 40 years and is about to die of cancer.

Nonetheless, none of this changes your stance that you only favor the death penalty because you don't like liberals. Its a weird position to take. People were discussing if physicians should take part. No one was mentioning liberal or conservative policies. For some reason you brought it up that the only reason you supported the death penalty was because liberals keep changing things. That's all I was pointing out. You felt the need to shoehorn in a stance about why you don't like liberals when it wasn't really relevant.
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About to die of cancer. It's a vague timeline. I'm sure the father of the 19 year old who was raped/tortured and murdered will take solace that he already served 39 years.

My point was and has always been, I am for the death penalty for particular crimes because it is final and can't be reversed/reduced. Decreasing criminal penalties is specifically a progressive/liberal idea.

I'm not pro death penalty because progressive are against it and never even insinuated that. Instead of getting worked up when you see the word liberal/progressive take a moment to carefully read.

You went down this bizarre tangent for whatever reason. I've already shown you clear examples of penalties getting reduced. You can feel free to argue or disagree with the first but there is no excuse for the second. These are just a few of the well publicized ones.

If you're going to purposely play dumb and misinterpret, feel free to waste your time.
 
ProPropofol said:
Whenever they have difficulty getting IV access for these executions, I always wonder about how much they try to get access. Did they use a vein finder? Ultrasound? Attempt a central line? How about IO access? Even in bad traumas, I may have struggled to get access but I always got something eventually. It really makes me wonder who is in charge of getting the IV.
Click to expand...

Imagine a newbie nurse or medical student doing it. It obviously isn't someone with experience.
 
anonperson said:
The parole board members are appointed by the governor.

Brown and Newsom don't get a pass. Besides it's a ploy for them to look tougher on crime knowing full well their appointees will do their dirty work.

I'm not getting why you're purposely being dense?

It is definitely a progressive/liberal agenda to go against the death penalty and against long prison sentences.

Activist DAs are proudly running on these platforms like Gascon, Boudin, Price, Krasner, etc.

Why are you putting your head in the same sand?

The death penalty cost is artificially inflated because of the numerous appeals baked into the process.

But my entire point is, life without the possibility of parole is no longer a guarantee. We are seeing situations where life without parole gets changed based on the whims of the current political flavor.

You know what would save a lot of money? If we catch a murderer or rapist and ask them to say sorry very nicely and promise not to be bad, we can let them go and wouldn't Even have to pay for any prison time!
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Do you have some actual evidence that those serving life with parole are being released from prison systemically or are you making a lot of noise with a few cherry picked examples? The Republican governor of my state's parole board let a few folks out that shouldn't had been released and some of them committed miurders again. Our disaster of a last Republic president may have done a few things right by transforming the federal prison criminal system to allow shorter sentences on some thimgs.

Liberals may support shorter sentences for crimes but show me proof they want the ones dangerous to our society released. A few cases here and there do not a political agenda make.
 
psycho-matic said:
Do you have some actual evidence that those serving life with parole are being released from prison systemically or are you making a lot of noise with a few cherry picked examples? The Republican governor of my state's parole board let a few folks out that shouldn't had been released and some of them committed miurders again. Our disaster of a last Republic president may have done a few things right by transforming the federal prison criminal system to allow shorter sentences on some thimgs.

Liberals may support shorter sentences for crimes but show me proof they want the ones dangerous to our society released. A few cases here and there do not a political agenda make.
Click to expand...

Liberal DAs in Oakland and Los Angeles aren't charging enhancements which could increase prison sentences for criminals. I can't speak for the rest of the country as I focus most of my news on local politics.

Prominent case:
Andrew Cachu is a gang banger who committed murder/robbery at the age of 17. Was charged and found guilty as an adult and sentenced to at least 50 years.

It later got argued that he should be tried as a juvenile and the DA never presented any additional evidence/argument at the transfer hearing otherwise forcing the judge to allow his release after 6 years. The judge even commented on this fact during his decision.

Regardless, guys like Gascon, Boudin, Price, etc have come out and openly stated they disagree with harsh penalties for a variety of crimes.

Gascon initially stated he was never going to pursue life in prison for any crime. He had to reverse course because the backlash became too heavy.
laist.com

LA DA Gascón Ends Ban On Seeking Life Without Parole For Some Defendants

"After listening to the community, victims, and colleagues, I understand there may be the rare occasion where the filing of special circumstance allegations may be necessary," Gascón said in a memo.
laist.com laist.com

And to answer your question on whether liberals are softer on crime:

Senate Bill 94 was proposed by a Democrat (luckily the bill is dead) which proposed resentencing of criminals with life sentences.


The public outcry was fairly prominent but this won't be the last time something like this comes up.
 
anonperson said:
Liberal DAs in Oakland and Los Angeles aren't charging enhancements which could increase prison sentences for criminals. I can't speak for the rest of the country as I focus most of my news on local politics.

Prominent case:
Andrew Cachu is a gang banger who committed murder/robbery at the age of 17. Was charged and found guilty as an adult and sentenced to at least 50 years.

It later got argued that he should be tried as a juvenile and the DA never presented any additional evidence/argument at the transfer hearing otherwise forcing the judge to allow his release after 6 years. The judge even commented on this fact during his decision.

Regardless, guys like Gascon, Boudin, Price, etc have come out and openly stated they disagree with harsh penalties for a variety of crimes.

Gascon initially stated he was never going to pursue life in prison for any crime. He had to reverse course because the backlash became too heavy.
laist.com

LA DA Gascón Ends Ban On Seeking Life Without Parole For Some Defendants

"After listening to the community, victims, and colleagues, I understand there may be the rare occasion where the filing of special circumstance allegations may be necessary," Gascón said in a memo.
laist.com laist.com

And to answer your question on whether liberals are softer on crime:

Senate Bill 94 was proposed by a Democrat (luckily the bill is dead) which proposed resentencing of criminals with life sentences.


The public outcry was fairly prominent but this won't be the last time something like this comes up.
Click to expand...
Apples to oranges.

Your claim was that a life sentence without parole was not preferable to execution due to the possibility of the sentence being overturned and released early at the hands of liberals. You've presented no evidence this is happening systemically.

1. This guy in your example didn't have a life sentence, so your example is moot
2. He was a minor when committing the crime, so he never would have received the death penalty. Your example is again moot.
3. We could debate what consequences for minors committing violent crimes should be, but that's beyond the scope of this discussion. Every state has its own laws regarding the punishment of violent crimes committed by minors. I'm not an expert on the law nor adolescent psychology so I don't know what the appropriate punishment should be. Whatever the state determines it should be, it needs to be applied uniformly.
4. It's California. Might as well be it's own country. 🤣 Not exactly a microsm of America at large.

I'm going to expound on #3 a bit. Laws will never be applied uniformly because the justice system is imperfect and because DAs are politicians with an agenda. It's not a stretch to see that an imperfect system where politicians with an agenda with pressure to perform so they can get reelected might use poor judgement and charge an innocent person with a crime. It's not a stretch to think an imperfect judge and jury might convict an innocent person of murder and sentence them to death. It's public knowledge that innocent people have been executed by the state. As long as the justice system is imperfect (because humans are flawed) a small percentage if innocent people will be wrongly convicted executed. How can you justify the existence of the death penalty if even one innocent person's life is taken? That's why the state shouldn't sanction executions
Sometimes we get it wrong.

And lastly, because our system is imperfect, some who received life without parole might have that reversed. But executions can also be reversed, stopped, overturned etc by "liberals." So sentencing a murderer to death is no garuntee. It seems like people are on death row for 10 to 20 years. At 20 years, that's almost a life sentence. Just let them be.
 
I’m against execution. But if we are going to do it, it is time to stop medicalizing it and making a dog and pony show out of it. We all need to see it for what it is. An execution is an execution.

www.nytimes.com

South Carolina Executes Inmate by Firing Squad

The last time such an execution took place was 15 years ago, in Utah. The South Carolina inmate chose the method because of his concerns about lethal injection, his lawyer said.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
nimbus said:
I’m against execution. But if we are going to do it, it is time to stop medicalizing it and making a dog and pony show out of it. We all need to see it for what it is. An execution is an execution.

www.nytimes.com

South Carolina Executes Inmate by Firing Squad

The last time such an execution took place was 15 years ago, in Utah. The South Carolina inmate chose the method because of his concerns about lethal injection, his lawyer said.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
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I agree with you. Much of the world does hanging, including Japan and Singapore. Not sure why America finds that cruel or unusual.
 
psycho-matic said:
I agree with you. Much of the world does hanging, including Japan and Singapore. Not sure why America finds that cruel or unusual.
Click to expand...
Supposed cruelty or unusualness aside, the real problem with the death penalty is that is has this unfortunate habit of killing innocent people, while costing more than life imprisonment, not actually deterring crime more than prison, and oh by the way gives the actually guilty a quick painless escape from the harsher punishment of life in a 6x10 concrete box

Death penalty advocates are soft on crime and bad at math.

It’s an objective failure in every respect except that it sometimes checks the vengeance box and makes some observers feel good.
 
Since we have a death penalty, I don't know why we make it so hard. Why not apply about 30 fentanyl patches to the back of the convict and let nature take its course peacefully? Tens of thousands of Americans die by overdosing. No IV, no mess, no gasping. Justice is served. Seems everyone wins.
 
Angus Avagadro said:
Since we have a death penalty, I don't know why we make it so hard. Why not apply about 30 fentanyl patches to the back of the convict and let nature take its course peacefully? Tens of thousands of Americans die by overdosing. No IV, no mess, no gasping. Justice is served. Seems everyone wins.
Click to expand...
For starters, manufactures won't supply D'sOC with the patches for that purpose, just like they don't sell pentathol or nembutal anymore, and more importantly, because it just further medicalizes capital punishment which is an awful idea and is, IMO, one of the reasons these executions are drawn out by appeals for years and years. If a state is going to put someone to death, own it. Hanging, firing squad, guillotine...whatever. With modern correction facilities, it's becoming obsolete anyway and if we executed criminals like we meant it, less would be put to death because judges and juries wouldn't have the guts...in the US anyway...
 
Teillard said:
For starters, manufactures won't supply D'sOC with the patches for that purpose, just like they don't sell pentathol or nembutal anymore, and more importantly, because it just further medicalizes capital punishment which is an awful idea and is, IMO, one of the reasons these executions are drawn out by appeals for years and years. If a state is going to put someone to death, own it. Hanging, firing squad, guillotine...whatever. With modern correction facilities, it's becoming obsolete anyway and if we executed criminals like we meant it, less would be put to death because judges and juries wouldn't have the guts...in the US anyway...
Click to expand...
I'm in agreement. Sometimes I think the system keeps them in prison for decades to allow them to suffer before executing them. If they are going to execute them, then just do it.
 
bring back capital punishment - strong deterrent, plus if arm is chopped off, unlikely to easily steal again
 
Here is a solution with very little clean up. You have them dig their own grave. Have them climb in the coffin inside the grave and then use the implement of choice for the deed. Pop the lid on and use a backhoe to cover it up. The whole thing will take 15 minutes from start to finish.
giphy.gif
 
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