Death Spiral??

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Stim4me

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Poorly planned and poorly executed - is anyone surprised?
 
When a leader pushes through an agenda with no prior experience in any leadership role, the outcome is failure. Remember the entire construct of Obamacare is a house of cards, with each stanchion non-severable lest the entire structure collapse. We are beginning to see the implausibility of financing of an important part of his scheme with no shell game in sight to divert finances from any other element to maintain support.
 
"If Medicaid is better than nothing (although this is harder to prove than you might think), it is substandard coverage that locks the poor into second-class care with limited access to doctors.

If the goal was to expand this deeply flawed program, it could have been achieved without the expense, disruption and economic irrationality of the rest of ObamaCare."

I think this is a very good point. Unfortunately, the damage has already been done and everyone is worse off with ObamaCare
 
"If Medicaid is better than nothing (although this is harder to prove than you might think), it is substandard coverage that locks the poor into second-class care with limited access to doctors.

If the goal was to expand this deeply flawed program, it could have been achieved without the expense, disruption and economic irrationality of the rest of ObamaCare."

I think this is a very good point. Unfortunately, the damage has already been done and everyone is worse off with ObamaCare
People below the poverty line are doing better... And self employed people making slightly above the poverty line are doing better... Welfare recipients in liberal states are doing well... The rest of us "47%ers" are worse of, except ductappe who things he's is doing great....
 
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People below the poverty line are doing better... And self employed people making slightly above the poverty line are doing better... Welfare recipients in liberal states are doing well... The rest of us "47%ers" are worse of, except ductappe who things he's is doing great....

Once you realize that you're on the wrong path, it's never to late to turn back. Physicians can be pivotal in unwinding this failure of public policy by galvanizing patient support.
 
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People below the poverty line are doing better... And self employed people making slightly above the poverty line are doing better... Welfare recipients in liberal states are doing well... The rest of us "47%ers" are worse of, except ductappe who things he's is doing great....

so, you are saying that it is helping most people. damn that obama.

im not a big fan of the ACA, as it is essentially just expands medicaid. however, i dont think it really has changed medicine all that much in general. until you take a chunk from the insurance companies and big pharma, premiums will still be sky high.

the meaningful use BS and non-stop clicking are a problem, tho.
 
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so, you are saying that it is helping most people. damn that obama.

im not a big fan of the ACA, as it is essentially just expands medicaid. however, i dont think it really has changed medicine all that much in general. until you take a chunk from the insurance companies and big pharma, premiums will still be sky high.

the meaningful use BS and non-stop clicking are a problem, tho.
So high deductibles, network restrictions, higher premiums for the middle class and small businesses, precert requirements, Medicare reimbursement rates, higher personal and business taxes ( on physicians) are not due to obamacare??? Got it....
If you think the middle class is being helped by obamacare you're clueless...
 
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So high deductibles, network restrictions, higher premiums for the middle class and small businesses, precert requirements, Medicare reimbursement rates, higher personal and business taxes ( on physicians) are not due to obamacare??? Got it....
If you think the middle class is being helped by obamacare your clueless...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2015/11/19/obamacares-problems-get-worse/

"Obamacare is expanding a two-tiered system of healthcare, in essence promoting inequality, without the anticipated positive consequences such as the promise of reducing emergency care visits. (Republicans offering to fund healthcare spending accounts for the poor so they can buy whatever private healthcare insurance they wish would provide them with the same dignity and access to care all other privately insured Americans enjoy.)"
 
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2015/11/19/obamacares-problems-get-worse/

"Obamacare is expanding a two-tiered system of healthcare, in essence promoting inequality, without the anticipated positive consequences such as the promise of reducing emergency care visits. (Republicans offering to fund healthcare spending accounts for the poor so they can buy whatever private healthcare insurance they wish would provide them with the same dignity and access to care all other privately insured Americans enjoy.)"

vouchers? thats the answer?
 
Let's not overlook one key aspect that no one seems to acknowledge in healthcare and that is you cannot provide adequate and proper care in a "for profit" hospital and insurance environment. Eventually the competing interests of proper patient care and staff moral take a backseat to profit margins. And just a little factoid about UnitedHealth Group: it's CEOs total compensation last year was 66.13 million dollars. And no one seems to have an issue with this?
 
So high deductibles, network restrictions, higher premiums for the middle class and small businesses, precert requirements, Medicare reimbursement rates, higher personal and business taxes ( on physicians) are not due to obamacare??? Got it....
If you think the middle class is being helped by obamacare you're clueless...

these have been trending way up well before Obama care
 
...this what happens when you run out of other people's money...


UnitedHealth Warns Of Marketplace Exit – Start Of A Trend Or Push For White House Action?

Julie Appleby; Kaiser Health News

UnitedHealthGroup laid out a litany of reasons Thursday why it might stop selling individual health insurance through federal and state markets in 2017 — a move some see as an effort to compel the Obama administration to ease regulations and make good on promised payments.

Those problems, including low participation by healthy people, have led to financial losses, according to UnitedHealth. If not addressed, similar issues could affect other insurers, causing more to exit the market in the coming years, some Wall Street analysts and policy experts said.

Many said they anticipate the federal government will act to forestall widespread departures, particularly because continued withdrawals could be politically explosive during an election year.

A key piece of President Barack Obama’s signature health care law, the online marketplaces, also called exchanges, opened in 2014 for people who buy their own insurance because they don’t get it through their jobs. Enrollment, while growing, has fallen short of capturing the share of the eligible uninsured that was anticipated. This year, the marketplaces saw enrollment of more than 9 million customers, although the law’s expansion of Medicaid enrollment in many states has also played a large role in reducing the overall number of uninsured.

Only a month ago, United sounded more optimistic about business on the exchanges. But in its unexpected disclosure Thursday, the insurer said it would cut its earnings forecast and projected hundreds of millions in losses stemming from the policies it sells through the health law’s marketplaces.

The turnaround led some analysts to ask the insurer what had changed.

Stephen Hemsley, UnitedHealth chief executive officer, said too many healthy people dropped coverage and noted slower than expected enrollment. A major factor, he added, was far higher costs for those who signed up for 2015 coverage under special exemptions after the general open enrollment period ended. Those exemptions included, for example, people who lost their insurance, moved or suffered a hardship, such as an eviction or had their utilities turned off. United said it did not see a similar increase in costs for people who bought policies from private brokers or websites instead of the government marketplaces after open enrollment, suggesting the reason was partly that the company’s eligibility assessments were more thorough.

The firm did not say it would halt sales in 2017 but warned that it would strongly consider doing so based on what happens in the next few months.

“We cannot sustain these losses,” he told Wall Street analysts. “We can’t subsidize a marketplace that doesn’t appear at the moment to be sustaining itself.”

Although it’s the nation’s largest insurer, United captured only a small percentage of consumers who currently have coverage through the Affordable Care Act marketplace, in part because it sat out the first year of enrollment and really ramped up only for this year’s coverage.

While seen as a serious challenge to the health care law, United’s decision alone doesn’t mark the death knell for the exchanges. In remarks to analysts and press reports on Thursday, Aetna and insurer Kaiser Permanente re-affirmed their commitment to selling through the marketplaces.

HHS Spokesman Ben Wakana defended the government marketplaces, noting that 9 of 10 of policyholders re-enrolling have a choice of three or more insurers for next year. “The reality is we continue to see more people signing up for health insurance and more issuers entering the Marketplaces, and at the end of January, we believe we’ll be looking at another successful open enrollment– just like the last two,” he said. “[Thursday’s] statement by one issuer is not indicative of the Marketplace’s strength and viability.”

But insurers, including Humana, Aetna and some of the large Blue Cross Blue Shield plans, were losing money or barely breaking even on their marketplace business, according to earnings reports.

“If there are no changes, all the large publicly traded companies will end up leaving,” said Ana Gupte, analyst with Leerink Partners. “But I would be very surprised if [the Department of Health and Human Services] doesn’t do something to accommodate their issues.”

Those options would be limited to what the agency could do without congressional action, many analysts said. Still, that could include relaxing some regulations or reconsidering some of the exemptions that allow people to sign up after the open enrollment period.

Former insurance executive and consultant Robert Laszewski said the administration needs to relax the rules to give insurers more flexibility to design plans that would attract healthier people. He said the costs – including deductibles and premiums – were too high for many people, particularly those with few medical needs.

“Disproportionately, the sick are signing up and the healthy are dropping out,” said Laszewski, adding that alternative plans with fewer benefits but lower costs should be made available.

Economist Len Nichols cautioned, however, that most of the law’s benefit requirements – taken individually – add little to the cost of a plan. Removing the bigger-ticket requirements, such as coverage for maternity care, would leave consumers without adequate coverage, said Nichols, who directs the George Mason University Center for Health Research and Ethics.

Nichols, Gupte and other analysts agree with the industry’s trade lobby, which says one thing the administration could do is make good on a promise to pay insurers under a temporary program designed to redistribute profits from some insurers that did especially well to offset losses others experienced in the marketplace plans. That program, however, has paid only about 13 cents on the dollar of what was promised, mainly because fewer insurers than expected made money.

Earlier this month, HHS Secretary Sylvia Burwell said the administration is exploring ways it might be able to help make those payments, although such a move comes too late to save many of the dozen insurance cooperatives that have announced they will pull out of the market in January. The less-than-anticipated payments are often cited as a main factor in the co-ops demise.

[email protected] | @Julie_Appleby | Kaiser Health News

Nov 20 2015
 
...this what happens when you run out of other people's money...


UnitedHealth Warns Of Marketplace Exit – Start Of A Trend Or Push For White House Action?

Julie Appleby; Kaiser Health News

UnitedHealthGroup laid out a litany of reasons Thursday why it might stop selling individual health insurance through federal and state markets in 2017 — a move some see as an effort to compel the Obama administration to ease regulations and make good on promised payments.

Those problems, including low participation by healthy people, have led to financial losses, according to UnitedHealth. If not addressed, similar issues could affect other insurers, causing more to exit the market in the coming years, some Wall Street analysts and policy experts said.

Many said they anticipate the federal government will act to forestall widespread departures, particularly because continued withdrawals could be politically explosive during an election year.

A key piece of President Barack Obama’s signature health care law, the online marketplaces, also called exchanges, opened in 2014 for people who buy their own insurance because they don’t get it through their jobs. Enrollment, while growing, has fallen short of capturing the share of the eligible uninsured that was anticipated. This year, the marketplaces saw enrollment of more than 9 million customers, although the law’s expansion of Medicaid enrollment in many states has also played a large role in reducing the overall number of uninsured.

Only a month ago, United sounded more optimistic about business on the exchanges. But in its unexpected disclosure Thursday, the insurer said it would cut its earnings forecast and projected hundreds of millions in losses stemming from the policies it sells through the health law’s marketplaces.

The turnaround led some analysts to ask the insurer what had changed.

Stephen Hemsley, UnitedHealth chief executive officer, said too many healthy people dropped coverage and noted slower than expected enrollment. A major factor, he added, was far higher costs for those who signed up for 2015 coverage under special exemptions after the general open enrollment period ended. Those exemptions included, for example, people who lost their insurance, moved or suffered a hardship, such as an eviction or had their utilities turned off. United said it did not see a similar increase in costs for people who bought policies from private brokers or websites instead of the government marketplaces after open enrollment, suggesting the reason was partly that the company’s eligibility assessments were more thorough.

The firm did not say it would halt sales in 2017 but warned that it would strongly consider doing so based on what happens in the next few months.

“We cannot sustain these losses,” he told Wall Street analysts. “We can’t subsidize a marketplace that doesn’t appear at the moment to be sustaining itself.”

Although it’s the nation’s largest insurer, United captured only a small percentage of consumers who currently have coverage through the Affordable Care Act marketplace, in part because it sat out the first year of enrollment and really ramped up only for this year’s coverage.

While seen as a serious challenge to the health care law, United’s decision alone doesn’t mark the death knell for the exchanges. In remarks to analysts and press reports on Thursday, Aetna and insurer Kaiser Permanente re-affirmed their commitment to selling through the marketplaces.

HHS Spokesman Ben Wakana defended the government marketplaces, noting that 9 of 10 of policyholders re-enrolling have a choice of three or more insurers for next year. “The reality is we continue to see more people signing up for health insurance and more issuers entering the Marketplaces, and at the end of January, we believe we’ll be looking at another successful open enrollment– just like the last two,” he said. “[Thursday’s] statement by one issuer is not indicative of the Marketplace’s strength and viability.”

But insurers, including Humana, Aetna and some of the large Blue Cross Blue Shield plans, were losing money or barely breaking even on their marketplace business, according to earnings reports.

“If there are no changes, all the large publicly traded companies will end up leaving,” said Ana Gupte, analyst with Leerink Partners. “But I would be very surprised if [the Department of Health and Human Services] doesn’t do something to accommodate their issues.”

Those options would be limited to what the agency could do without congressional action, many analysts said. Still, that could include relaxing some regulations or reconsidering some of the exemptions that allow people to sign up after the open enrollment period.

Former insurance executive and consultant Robert Laszewski said the administration needs to relax the rules to give insurers more flexibility to design plans that would attract healthier people. He said the costs – including deductibles and premiums – were too high for many people, particularly those with few medical needs.

“Disproportionately, the sick are signing up and the healthy are dropping out,” said Laszewski, adding that alternative plans with fewer benefits but lower costs should be made available.

Economist Len Nichols cautioned, however, that most of the law’s benefit requirements – taken individually – add little to the cost of a plan. Removing the bigger-ticket requirements, such as coverage for maternity care, would leave consumers without adequate coverage, said Nichols, who directs the George Mason University Center for Health Research and Ethics.

Nichols, Gupte and other analysts agree with the industry’s trade lobby, which says one thing the administration could do is make good on a promise to pay insurers under a temporary program designed to redistribute profits from some insurers that did especially well to offset losses others experienced in the marketplace plans. That program, however, has paid only about 13 cents on the dollar of what was promised, mainly because fewer insurers than expected made money.

Earlier this month, HHS Secretary Sylvia Burwell said the administration is exploring ways it might be able to help make those payments, although such a move comes too late to save many of the dozen insurance cooperatives that have announced they will pull out of the market in January. The less-than-anticipated payments are often cited as a main factor in the co-ops demise.

[email protected] | @Julie_Appleby | Kaiser Health News

Nov 20 2015
Obama really is clueless... Why would you ram through a healthcare policy that half the American population and its doctors did not want... I can tell you personally the ACA comes up every very frequently during the working day. And patients tend to respect my opinion if they want it.... It was a death wish selling out doctors, medical malpractice, reimbursements, networks, autonomy, etc... Curious what Hilary will do with it...
 
Again. How can you justify paying someone hundreds of millions of dollars when they are making decisions that have serious reprocussions for peoples' lives and then they pull out of a marketplace that is rigged in their favor?

It's also amazing that United Health is doing so poorly considering their insurance plans are known to be garbage.
 
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Again. How can you justify paying someone hundreds of millions of dollars when they are making decisions that have serious reprocussions for peoples' lives and then they pull out of a marketplace that is rigged in their favor?

It's also amazing that United Health is doing so poorly considering their insurance plans are known to be garbage.
Free market capitalistic system for healthcare(fiorina style)...
Provide your health care solution below, thanks...keep it simple
 
1. Two tier system: taxation supported validated preventative care/limited emergency care with self purchased insurance as second tier.
2. Hospital budgets cut by 2/3 over 5 years- CEOs income capped at 1% of hospital profit- eliminate EMTALA- retroactively limit patent protection to 4 years for medications
3. Malpractice reform to no fault with limited coverage
4. Pharmaceutical manufacturers cannot sell to any country or market for a lower price than in the US
5. Reduction in regulations re: surgery centers/doctors offices and patients would be able to select least costly center
6. Insurers could not pay less for procedure in a doctors office or surgery center than in a hospital.
7. Doctors and hospitals would have to post charges for comparison purposes.
 
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1. Two tier system: Federal/State fully compartmentalized program, funded, managed, staffed by government body for preventative care/limited emergency care. After this the gov should have absolutely no involvement in healthcare. (QUARANTINE!). Second tier is entirely private.
2. Eliminate EMTALA for private facilities.
3. Malpractice reform YES! (I reformed this point)
4. No caps on pricing/salaries/etc.
5. Govt oversight of marketplace like any other to ensure no antitrust issues. Monopoly = break up.
 
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so, you are saying that it is helping most people. damn that obama.

im not a big fan of the ACA, as it is essentially just expands medicaid. however, i dont think it really has changed medicine all that much in general. until you take a chunk from the insurance companies and big pharma, premiums will still be sky high.

the meaningful use BS and non-stop clicking are a problem, tho.

the insurance i pay for my employees has increased about 10-30% depending on the type of plan....which means more is taken out for payroll then before. It is moving like a frog in a slow boiling pot.
 
I take all insurances.

Congrats, you will definitely end up with most money, most toys.

All ill end up with is the ability to teach my children that money isn't everything, and there is higher goal in life in helping our fellow man. (And no, i cant buy a tesla with that...)
 
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But,

would you continue taking all insurances if you didn't work in a hospital?

Or, would you look for another job in a couple of years if the hospital told you there were going to be 25-30% cuts in salary and cuts in benefits to offset losses from the exchange plans and Medicaid?
 
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http://www.usnews.com/news/business...them-reassure-investors-on-forecast-exchanges

Counterpoint. Other insurers plan on staying, and are making money in the market.

The article states that Aetna lost money in the exchanges last year, and business for Anthem was less profitable than expected.

I could see either of those changing their stance abruptly at any time.

It's no surprise that Kaiser remains "strongly committed" to the exchanges. They control both sides of the equation and can adjust quickly to offset losses. Enrolling more and more patients only expands their sphere of influence as the leading closed hospital system.

As for the solutions, I'm on board with the "Quarantine" theme.

Very basic government run system for all. But beyond that, just leave doctors alone.

Pay to play.

There would be winners and losers amongst physicians. But them's the breaks.
 
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But,

would you continue taking all insurances if you didn't work in a hospital?

Or, would you look for another job in a couple of years if the hospital told you there were going to be 25-30% cuts in salary and cuts in benefits to offset losses from the exchange plans and Medicaid?

If they do that to me, i walk. I open my doors and hang a shingle. My noncompete is that i cannot work for another hospital
.
 
That's what I'm saying. We're righteous, until we can't pay our bills and retire on time.

Reminds me of something one of my attendings told me a long time ago, when talking about the idealism of medical students. Just happened to be an ER doc too.

"Yeah, everyone wants to help people until it's a pain in the ass".
 
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But,

would you continue taking all insurances if you didn't work in a hospital?

Or, would you look for another job in a couple of years if the hospital told you there were going to be 25-30% cuts in salary and cuts in benefits to offset losses from the exchange plans and Medicaid?

you can make a hypothetical argument about anything. clearly, i wouldnt make any decision until i reviewed the options. and you could still be righteous while kowtowing to the almighty dollar.

would consider cutting staff first.

also, i would consider going back into academia. i was in academia for 12 long years, but worked primarily as Clinician-Teacher track in the old days.

if i were to go into a private practice model focusing primarily on the almighty dollar, and was essentially pushed out of a situation where i could have an impact on societal well being, then i would probably take all insurances, but obviously limit the # of patients of the exchanges to the point of being financially viable. yes, that might be only 1 a month, but i would still take them.

pay cut? unlikely - would have to look at the details. i highly doubt that would happen - closing is much more likely, particularly with the niche i am in.
 
you can make a hypothetical argument about anything. clearly, i wouldnt make any decision until i reviewed the options. and you could still be righteous while kowtowing to the almighty dollar.

would consider cutting staff first.

also, i would consider going back into academia. i was in academia for 12 long years, but worked primarily as Clinician-Teacher track in the old days.

if i were to go into a private practice model focusing primarily on the almighty dollar, and was essentially pushed out of a situation where i could have an impact on societal well being, then i would probably take all insurances, but obviously limit the # of patients of the exchanges to the point of being financially viable. yes, that might be only 1 a month, but i would still take them.

pay cut? unlikely - would have to look at the details. i highly doubt that would happen - closing is much more likely, particularly with the niche i am in.
It's purplexing how you equate private practice to money whoring... You truly think your hospital is some holy temple that cares about you and others???... And in regards to academics, their work load is a joke, esp the non research tracks, with residents essentially doing the clinical work...being lazy and inefficient makes you no better or MORAL than any other physician on this board.... Get over yourself....
 
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perplexing, btw....

i dont have to get over myself - i for one feel quite comfortable with how i am practicing and being on the "moral high ground", as it were. it is obviously an issue for you however.

might i recommend you think about some volunteer work, like at an open door mission?
 
hospitals are no ones friend. By accepting "all" insurances, they do so for profitability and legal reasons, not altruism.
 
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Or, would you look for another job in a couple of years if the hospital told you there were going to be 25-30% cuts in salary and cuts in benefits to offset losses from the exchange plans and Medicaid?

this is why there continues to be a SOS differential.

without the SOS differential, hospitals go belly-up.

this may be a good or bad thing, depending on who you ask.
 
Yes.. United might pull out of Exchange because they are losing money on that product, it will be curious to see their numbers for 2015
as they had a pretty good 2014.

"But UnitedHealth closed the books in 2014 with near-record profits and easily the most revenue in the Minnetonka, Minnesota-based company's history. Full-year revenue reached $130.5 billion, up 6.5% from 2013." ( from 1/2015 Business Insurance)
 
hospitals are no ones friend. By accepting "all" insurances, they do so for profitability and legal reasons, not altruism.
I do not disagree. but by extension...

it is all about money, right? nothing else... only money. quality care doesnt matter. safe care doesnt matter. Hippocratic oath doesn't matter.

its not medicine any more. its M$dicin$. nothing else matters. all we have to think about is $$. which is good, since stim already won.

(I didn't put it in magenta because I might not be facetious).
 
I do not disagree. but by extension...

it is all about money, right? nothing else... only money. quality care doesnt matter. safe care doesnt matter. Hippocratic oath doesn't matter.

its not medicine any more. its M$dicin$. nothing else matters. all we have to think about is $$. which is good, since stim already won.

(I didn't put it in magenta because I might not be facetious).
It matters a lot, but your disdain for pp makes no sense... As for volunteering, we are all busy physicians providing medical care, I have three small kids so that's an impossibility. I donate 100k+ year to charity and my temple, what do you do, my guess is nothing, as most liberals talk the talk but are full of **** in the end...also this argument that health companies are doing so great is bogus, we discussed this in the past and the health industry is not in the Fortune 500 top tier. They thought obamacare would increase their volume, but the young aren't buying it... Ponzi scheme about to you unravel...no time to spell check, leave that up to you ductappe
 
It matters a lot, but your disdain for pp makes no sense... As for volunteering, we are all busy physicians providing medical care, I have three small kids so that's an impossibility. I donate 100k+ year to charity and my temple, what do you do, my guess is nothing, as most liberals talk the talk but are full of **** in the end...also this argument that health companies are doing so great is bogus, we discussed this in the past and the health industry is not in the Fortune 500 top tier. They thought obamacare would increase their volume, but the young aren't buying it... Ponzi scheme about to you unravel...no time to spell check, leave that up to you ductappe

Really Uncle Google says United is currently 14th in Forbes 500?

I am total agreement with PP, not sure where your love of the big insurers comes from they did help draft the ACA
 
Really Uncle Google says United is currently 14th in Forbes 500?

I am total agreement with PP, not sure where your love of the big insurers comes from they did help draft the ACA


we love where our paychecks come from.

you will defend the teet from which you suckle... the rancid nasty nipple of hospital employment;)

I say this now, until i become a hospital employee someday...then i will sing its praises!
 
we love where our paychecks come from.

you will defend the teet from which you suckle... the rancid nasty nipple of hospital employment;)

I say this now, until i become a hospital employee someday...then i will sing its praises!

I have been in PP for 10 years, I have no love for Hospitals or Big Insurers
 
Really Uncle Google says United is currently 14th in Forbes 500?

I am total agreement with PP, not sure where your love of the big insurers comes from they did help draft the ACA
United is 14, most others 50-100th place, a lot consolidating and current news shows losses for the future... Not supporting health ins industry but many pundits have projected massive losses by 2020... As much as we hate insurances, they pay our bills and produce many jobs in the USA. I prefer them over a single payer.
 
It matters a lot, but your disdain for pp makes no sense... As for volunteering, we are all busy physicians providing medical care, I have three small kids so that's an impossibility. I donate 100k+ year to charity and my temple, what do you do, my guess is nothing, as most liberals talk the talk but are full of **** in the end...also this argument that health companies are doing so great is bogus, we discussed this in the past and the health industry is not in the Fortune 500 top tier. They thought obamacare would increase their volume, but the young aren't buying it... Ponzi scheme about to you unravel...no time to spell check, leave that up to you ductappe

#1: the 100k you pay in taxes DOESNT COUNT. you referenced this as "charity" a couple months ago
#2: synagogue dues are ridiculous. agreed.
#3: ducttape is a way better person than most of us, so id be careful where you step. he will come out of this as mother theresa, and you will look like
Tommy from Goodfellas
 
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#1: the 100k you pay in taxes DOESNT COUNT. you referenced this as "charity" a couple months ago. What are you talking about. ... Tax payments are not charity, unless your a liberal that pretends to donate. I donate a lot more than you or ductappe combined, because I'm more spiritual and giving than either of you. Ramble all you want.
#2: synagogue dues are ridiculous. agreed.donating to religion is ridiculous? I have no dues and I'm not Jewish. Look up the golden temple and donate maybe your ignorance will be forgiven...
#3: ducttape is a way better person than most of us, so id be careful where you step. he will come out of this as mother theresa, and you will look like.
Tommy from Goodfellas
a truly virtuous person doesn't take to pain rounds to prove themselves...
 
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I donate 100k+ year to charity and my temple

First off, if you are donating 100k per year of true charity you must be making a killing and you should just STFU.
Second, nice humblebrag.
 
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