Debt is scaring me... regret a decision, help?

[jdaniels360]

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Hi all. So i'm currently a PT1 @ a private school in South Florida. Been on my own financially since 16 and got out of undergrad debt free because of a full athletic scholarship. Here's my situation.... I was all about coming to SoFlo, but now i'm thinking about the price tag more everyday. I had other options, but only one was school was significantly cheaper in Missouri State. I got in late off the waitlist at MSU but had already fully committed to a roommate, an apartment, and told everyone i was going to FL, so there was no going back.... I like to think to myself that had i gone to MSU, i would have regreted not checking out SoFlo while i had the chance. We just wrapped up our first semester (we're on trimesters) and i LOVE the program.

Tuition is about 28k/yr, my place with everything will cost about $675/month (which isn't terrible for SoFlo), $70 car insurance per month, about $50/mnth on gas since i live close to school, and $200 roughly a month on groceries (i cook in bulk and shop at places like costco). I plan on staying here the next two years to complete my book work of the curriculum then maybe moving back to the midwest to save some money on living. Looks like around $130k when all is said and done. THAT'S TERRIFYING!

Currently there is the 10 year repayment plan, which i'm assuming will be capped under 60k before i get out. I've read a few other threads about this, and it's not looking good with what's currently going on with healthcare. There's also things like working for the VA etc. Fortunately, i'm in love with geriatrics (which apparently is also where the money is to be made), so i could pay a good amount of my salary each month if i lived stringently for between 6-10 years. Just trying to figure out what my best options are. I don't want to cross that bridge when i get there, but it looks like i may not have a choice. Just really looking for any kind of advice or information from people who have also been through this, or are currently doing so and have similar thoughts. Maybe i'm worrying too much. But i'm the type of person who doesn't like to owe people anything. So for me, the sooner its gone, the better!

Thanks as always PT community!

 

[quebert]

You are worrying too much....I totally get it though. I did the same thing about a month ago. I'm trying to tell myself that in the end there are bills to pay every month school or no school. School just allows me to enjoy what I'm doing while making the money to pay the bills. Not trying to sound mean, but you might want to except that owing people money is just part of life in this country. Unless you plan on living in an apartment (but even then you owe someone money) and driving cheap used cars for a LONG time, debt is kinda part of our modern world. You'll owe $130K on school, $100-300K on a house, $20-50K on a car plus all the other things you have to pay for to live - food, gas, electric, cell phone etc. They are all just bills. If you can except that it might help.

As for school debt, you'll have a couple options that you should deal with when you are done with school and you know 1) how much you ACTUALLY owe and 2) what options are ACTUALLY available. But either way you will find the monthly price point that fits into you budget and allows you to live comfortably and work towards your goals. Try not to stress so much....worst case scenario you pay on it for 30 years - not the end of the world. You will still be paying on a lot of things in 30 years.

But if you are going to worry (like I do) then lay out your options and then let it go until you are done with school. This is what I came up with.
1) work 2 jobs and pay off as quickly as possible
2) sign up for PAYE and pay until they are willing to relieve the debt - whether that be in 10, 20, 25 years
3) work for a not for profit/government job and pay exactly what is needed to take advantage a $60K forgiveness in 10 years (if that cap actually passes)
4) sign up for 30 year repayment

 

[DMACK22]

Hi all. So i'm currently a PT1 @ a private school in South Florida. Been on my own financially since 16 and got out of undergrad debt free because of a full athletic scholarship. Here's my situation.... I was all about coming to SoFlo, but now i'm thinking about the price tag more everyday. I had other options, but only one was school was significantly cheaper in Missouri State. I got in late off the waitlist at MSU but had already fully committed to a roommate, an apartment, and told everyone i was going to FL, so there was no going back.... I like to think to myself that had i gone to MSU, i would have regreted not checking out SoFlo while i had the chance. We just wrapped up our first semester (we're on trimesters) and i LOVE the program.

Tuition is about 28k/yr, my place with everything will cost about $675/month (which isn't terrible for SoFlo), $70 car insurance per month, about $50/mnth on gas since i live close to school, and $200 roughly a month on groceries (i cook in bulk and shop at places like costco). I plan on staying here the next two years to complete my book work of the curriculum then maybe moving back to the midwest to save some money on living. Looks like around $130k when all is said and done. THAT'S TERRIFYING!

Currently there is the 10 year repayment plan, which i'm assuming will be capped under 60k before i get out. I've read a few other threads about this, and it's not looking good with what's currently going on with healthcare. There's also things like working for the VA etc. Fortunately, i'm in love with geriatrics (which apparently is also where the money is to be made), so i could pay a good amount of my salary each month if i lived stringently for between 6-10 years. Just trying to figure out what my best options are. I don't want to cross that bridge when i get there, but it looks like i may not have a choice. Just really looking for any kind of advice or information from people who have also been through this, or are currently doing so and have similar thoughts. Maybe i'm worrying too much. But i'm the type of person who doesn't like to owe people anything. So for me, the sooner its gone, the better!

Thanks as always PT community!

Hi all. So i'm currently a PT1 @ a private school in South Florida. Been on my own financially since 16 and got out of undergrad debt free because of a full athletic scholarship. Here's my situation.... I was all about coming to SoFlo, but now i'm thinking about the price tag more everyday. I had other options, but only one was school was significantly cheaper in Missouri State. I got in late off the waitlist at MSU but had already fully committed to a roommate, an apartment, and told everyone i was going to FL, so there was no going back.... I like to think to myself that had i gone to MSU, i would have regreted not checking out SoFlo while i had the chance. We just wrapped up our first semester (we're on trimesters) and i LOVE the program.

Tuition is about 28k/yr, my place with everything will cost about $675/month (which isn't terrible for SoFlo), $70 car insurance per month, about $50/mnth on gas since i live close to school, and $200 roughly a month on groceries (i cook in bulk and shop at places like costco). I plan on staying here the next two years to complete my book work of the curriculum then maybe moving back to the midwest to save some money on living. Looks like around $130k when all is said and done. THAT'S TERRIFYING!

Currently there is the 10 year repayment plan, which i'm assuming will be capped under 60k before i get out. I've read a few other threads about this, and it's not looking good with what's currently going on with healthcare. There's also things like working for the VA etc. Fortunately, i'm in love with geriatrics (which apparently is also where the money is to be made), so i could pay a good amount of my salary each month if i lived stringently for between 6-10 years. Just trying to figure out what my best options are. I don't want to cross that bridge when i get there, but it looks like i may not have a choice. Just really looking for any kind of advice or information from people who have also been through this, or are currently doing so and have similar thoughts. Maybe i'm worrying too much. But i'm the type of person who doesn't like to owe people anything. So for me, the sooner its gone, the better!

Thanks as always PT community!

I'm not sure how far along in your first year you are, but i would consider waiting another year and attempt to get into a PUBLIC school, in the meantime work and save for school. MINIMIZE your debt as much as possible. I understand waiting another year will be a sacrifice but you will thank yourself in the long run. You've done an amazing job coming out of undergrad with no debt. Don't mess it up now. PT is absolutely a great profession, however it won't feel that way if you're $130,000 in debt. I'm currently finishing up my DPT at a public school in NC. My debt will roughly be around $50,000, although I'm married and my wife makes decent money so I didn't need to borrow as much money as others. Do some more research on the topic and see if others agree with my logic. Then make an informed and wise decision. Good Luck

 

[NewTestament]

Unless you plan on living in an apartment (but even then you owe someone money) and driving cheap used cars for a LONG time, debt is kinda part of our modern world.

The only way you can make good money without incurring any debt is to go into the industrial arts or to start your own business. Industrial arts are disparaged but shouldn't be. Starting a business requires acumen, capital, a good idea, and some luck. I'm not sure too many people have the ability to successfully launch a business. We live in an economy that rewards knowledge and critical thinking, not physical work. Unfortunately, it's expensive to learn those skills, and it costs at least $100k of tuition (undegradate+graduate school) to start making money.

 

[quebert]

I'm currently finishing up my DPT at a public school in NC. My debt will roughly be around $50,000.

Wow, I wish I lived where you do. I'm in a public school and my tuition is still $23K/yr!!

 

[AlanWattsBlues]

JD360,

First off: You're having anxiety the first time you take on major debt and that seems entirely reasonable. What you are experiencing is natural. If you didn't have a twinge of panic over $130k in debt, then that would be the time to really worry. Over time, you will get somewhat accustomed to the reality of it and it won't be so psychologically straining. Things will get better (more on that in a moment).

Second: you don't need to drop out of school, work a mediocre job, go through applications again, roll the dice on getting accepted into one of the extremely competitive inexpensive schools, move across the country again, and ultimately delay your PT career--and earnings--for at least another year. If you did that you'd be scraping by and living in dramatic uncertainty for a year. Better to get done sooner, get a better paying job than you can get now, pick up some PRN work, live frugally and start paying off your loans with a vengeance.

Alright, on to the meat and potatoes of this: what is life going to be like when you're paying off that debt? Hold on for a second while I fire up excel...

Ignoring tuition, your expenses total out to $995/month, or $11,940/year. To put that in perspective, you are only $450/year from the poverty line:

https://www.federalregister.gov/art...2/annual-update-of-the-hhs-poverty-guidelines​

Let's say that you graduate with $130k in debt at 8% interest (I have no idea what your rates are or what will happen over the next couple years). You get a job at a typical starting salary of $65k and start making payments on a ten year plan (about $19k/year). After pulling out a rough 25% for taxes, you are going to have ~$30k in disposable income, which is a 150% increase in your standard of living. Any salary increases or extra PRN work after that will either increase your standard of living or let you pay off your debt sooner. I'm attaching the spreadsheet I used in case you want to check my math or fiddle with the numbers.

There are threads in this forum of people who have taken a pretty aggressive approach to their loans when they first get out of school, and I am amazed by how much they can pay them down with a couple years of dedicated work. Maybe hit it hard for a couple years to get your debt to a point where you are maxing out the student loan interest deduction and then back off to something more sustainable?

You have a brighter future ahead of you. You'll adapt to the stresses placed upon you and learn to thrive under a new set of constraints. Your quality of life will continue to improve. Things will get better and one day that debt will be gone.

my 2 cents

 

[wrennywren]

I'm doing the pay as your earn (not income based) plan which include debt forgiveness in 20 years. It works out nicely.

 

[DesertPT]

JD360,

First off: You're having anxiety the first time you take on major debt and that seems entirely reasonable. What you are experiencing is natural. If you didn't have a twinge of panic over $130k in debt, then that would be the time to really worry. Over time, you will get somewhat accustomed to the reality of it and it won't be so psychologically straining. Things will get better (more on that in a moment).

Second: you don't need to drop out of school, work a mediocre job, go through applications again, roll the dice on getting accepted into one of the extremely competitive inexpensive schools, move across the country again, and ultimately delay your PT career--and earnings--for at least another year. If you did that you'd be scraping by and living in dramatic uncertainty for a year. Better to get done sooner, get a better paying job than you can get now, pick up some PRN work, live frugally and start paying off your loans with a vengeance.

Alright, on to the meat and potatoes of this: what is life going to be like when you're paying off that debt? Hold on for a second while I fire up excel...

Ignoring tuition, your expenses total out to $995/month, or $11,940/year. To put that in perspective, you are only $450/year from the poverty line:

https://www.federalregister.gov/art...2/annual-update-of-the-hhs-poverty-guidelines​

Let's say that you graduate with $130k in debt at 8% interest (I have no idea what your rates are or what will happen over the next couple years). You get a job at a typical starting salary of $65k and start making payments on a ten year plan (about $19k/year). After pulling out a rough 25% for taxes, you are going to have ~$30k in disposable income, which is a 150% increase in your standard of living. Any salary increases or extra PRN work after that will either increase your standard of living or let you pay off your debt sooner. I'm attaching the spreadsheet I used in case you want to check my math or fiddle with the numbers.

There are threads in this forum of people who have taken a pretty aggressive approach to their loans when they first get out of school, and I am amazed by how much they can pay them down with a couple years of dedicated work. Maybe hit it hard for a couple years to get your debt to a point where you are maxing out the student loan interest deduction and then back off to something more sustainable?

You have a brighter future ahead of you. You'll adapt to the stresses placed upon you and learn to thrive under a new set of constraints. Your quality of life will continue to improve. Things will get better and one day that debt will be gone.

my 2 cents

Amen. Preach on brotha'...

Seriously though this is an excellent post with some excellent advice and perspective. Thank you sir!

 

[DesertPT]

I'm trying to tell myself that in the end there are bills to pay every month school or no school. School just allows me to enjoy what I'm doing while making the money to pay the bills.

I have never thought of it this way, but I think this is a very helpful perspective. One would have to be careful not to use this logic to justify the unnecessary consumer debt that has so many Americans in a bind, but when it comes to student loans for an education that is going to be put to use, this is a great way to think about it. 👍

I'm not sure how far along in your first year you are, but i would consider waiting another year and attempt to get into a PUBLIC school, in the meantime work and save for school.

This, on the other hand is such terrible advice I can't even... just no.... 👎 👎 👎

For cryin' out loud, you have put yourself through the minor hell on earth that is applying to PT school, have been accepted by and matriculated into a PT program, and are well on your way to knocking out your first year. Can you imagine dropping out and saying naaa I'll try somewhere else next year? Think that's gonna be a stressful year? Even if you could get a decent job you'd probably be loosing $30K in income by becoming a PT a year later, not to mention all the money you would have squandered in the process of getting in to PT school, so your savings would only be substantial if you ended up getting into the cheapest state school available to you. Only a fool would take those odds. Plus, if you drop out of the program, that is going to be an empty seat for three years that could have been given to somebody else dying to go to PT school who didn't get accepted, and that is just a cryin' shame.

 

[NewTestament]

JD360, Let's say that you graduate with $130k in debt at 8% interest (I have no idea what your rates are or what will happen over the next couple years). You get a job at a typical starting salary of $65k and start making payments on a ten year plan (about $19k/year).

Your assumption is based on making only $65k your first year. That's actually pretty low. If you're willing to work in a hospital, SNF, or home health, especially outside popular metropolitan areas, then you can make significantly more even as a new graduate.

 

[jdaniels360]

And this is precisely why i love our PT community so much, you people are ACTUALLY awesome. And by the sounds of it, you all are right. I just need to chill and keep plodding away and the rest will figure itself out. Fortunately for me, like i mentioned previously, geriatrics is what i LOVE. So i sure as hell won't be making 65k out of school, especially if i end up in south florida. I have seen offers as high as 90k for new grads. Now are those rare outliers? perhaps. BUT... im literally a workaholic who would enjoy PRN and even home health out of school on the weekends, plus a little OT here and there. I'm in LOVE with this profession and know im in it for the long haul. I guess all i needed was a little piece of mind. I've always lived frugaly and by no means come from money. I come from in fact, well.... quite the opposite. So thank you all for the kind words and continue with whatever advice you have. Every word is priceless in my eyes. It's an investment in the end. I know i have a LONG way to go before i can call myself a PT, however the uncertainty with all thats going on in health care is scaring the living sh** outta me! Who knows what the cap will be by the time i get out in 3 years, or if loan forgiveness will even exist. Yes, we'll cross that bridge when we get there, but i'd like an early heads up on what everyone else seems to be doing, because i feel like most of my peers are in a similar situation.

Thanks again as always,

JD PT1

 

[jdaniels360]

wrennywren, what % of your monthly salary goes to loans, and how much do you owe in total?

 

[NewTestament]

Fortunately for me, like i mentioned previously, geriatrics is what i LOVE. So i sure as hell won't be making 65k out of school, especially if i end up in south florida. I have seen offers as high as 90k for new grads. Now are those rare outliers? perhaps. BUT... im literally a workaholic who would enjoy PRN and even home health out of school on the weekends, plus a little OT here and there. I'm in LOVE with this profession and know im in it for the long haul. I guess all i needed was a little piece of mind. I've always lived frugaly and by no means come from money.

I've never seen any offer as high as $90k for a new grad, but I have seen $80k with a signing bonus. If you're willing to work in a SNF or home health, then you shouldn't have any trouble making good money. If you work PRN on the weekends, then you can back your loans even faster. If you love geriatrics and live in Florida, finding work will never be a challenge.

 

[DMACK22]

I have never thought of it this way, but I think this is a very helpful perspective. One would have to be careful not to use this logic to justify the unnecessary consumer debt that has so many Americans in a bind, but when it comes to student loans for an education that is going to be put to use, this is a great way to think about it. 👍



This, on the other hand is such terrible advice I can't even... just no.... 👎 👎 👎

For cryin' out loud, you have put yourself through the minor hell on earth that is applying to PT school, have been accepted by and matriculated into a PT program, and are well on your way to knocking out your first year. Can you imagine dropping out and saying naaa I'll try somewhere else next year? Think that's gonna be a stressful year? Even if you could get a decent job you'd probably be loosing $30K in income by becoming a PT a year later, not to mention all the money you would have squandered in the process of getting in to PT school, so your savings would only be substantial if you ended up getting into the cheapest state school available to you. Only a fool would take those odds. Plus, if you drop out of the program, that is going to be an empty seat for three years that could have been given to somebody else dying to go to PT school who didn't get accepted, and that is just a cryin' shame.

Yes you're correct, it will be a stressful year that's why it'll be a sacrafice, but it'll only be ONE year. Imagine how much stress it will be when you're facing $130,000 in debt that will take at least 10years to pay off. Now if he is at the end of his 1st year of school then no I wouldn't consider dropping out, but we're not sure how far along he is. If he stated that he was at the end of the year then I missed it and my recommendation wouldn't apply. My point is people don't understand the implication that debt has on their lives, yes in this economy debt is almost unavoidable but you can take steps to at least minimize it. At the current starting salary for DPT's it will take a VERY long time to pay off this amount of money alone.

 

[AlanWattsBlues]

Yes you're correct, it will be a stressful year that's why it'll be a sacrafice, but it'll only be ONE year. Imagine how much stress it will be when you're facing $130,000 in debt that will take at least 10years to pay off. Now if he is at the end of his 1st year of school then no I wouldn't consider dropping out, but we're not sure how far along he is. If he stated that he was at the end of the year then I missed it and my recommendation wouldn't apply. My point is people don't understand the implication that debt has on their lives, yes in this economy debt is almost unavoidable but you can take steps to at least minimize it. At the current starting salary for DPT's it will take a VERY long time to pay off this amount of money alone.

First off, the OP noted that he had just wrapped up the first semester. Even so, I think that the advice you are doubling down on is absolutely horrible and will cause more harm than anything else (by sticking a nagging claw of "what if?" in JD360's mind when the "what if?" scenario is a fool's gamble).

Yes, $130k in debt is a psychological burden. It would be less of a burden to have less debt by being enrolled in a lower cost school or to have the financial assistance of a parent or spouse. Very likely the OP is looking at a couple years of hard work and frugality out of the gate before coasting to something more manageable. But let's really unpack this scenario of yours:

1. Withdraw from school (maybe sell back books, hope to get back tuition for the upcoming semester, ultimately lose access to student loans...and what's the policy on taking out loans then withdrawing? Do you have to start paying them back immediately? I have no idea off the top of my head and I never want to have to know.)
2. Coast on what remains of loans until you can get a job
3. Find a job to pay bills/save money (bartending? waiting tables? how quickly can someone find a job that really allows them to accumulate significant savings in one year? If it were that easy, I don't think that applications would be so competitive.)
4. Identify the low cost schools that are in state or wave residency requirements easily. I'm sure there are hundreds...
5. Go through applications again. Pay the application fees. Bear the cost of travelling for interviews and hope that all the time away from work doesn't get you let go from your new job.
6. Cross every finger and toe on your body hoping that you got in to one of these gems
7a: You got in! Now pack up everything, quit your crappy job, move somewhere else and start over. All of this will take additional money. Considering previously accumulated debt, tuition increases, and the year spent waiting to establish residency at your new school, you now graduate one year later than you otherwise would with only $80k in debt. Yay! You saved $50k!
---or---
7b: You didn't get in. You have non-defaultable student debt payments to make and a crappy job. You can try again next year and hope for better results, delaying your career yet another year or more.

Or you could just stay on track and work an extra 10-15 hours/week for your first couple of years, pay off the debt faster and you'd quickly end up in the same financial position as 7a above. And I think it would be much less stressful.

What are the odds between 7a and 7b above that would make this gamble worth it? It's a personal choice, I suppose. Even if it were 90% certain that I would get in somewhere and save $50k, I would balk at taking that risk when I know that I could be in the same financial place with a little bit of extra work my first couple of years (and I will have graduated a year earlier).

I think folks playing roulette in Las Vegas are making foolish financial decisions, and I think following your advice would be foolish as well. Risk tolerances are an individual thing, though, so perhaps we are just approaching this from different risk preferences, hence our disagreement. But then it's always easy to gamble with someone else's money.

 

[jdaniels360]

I want to thank you all for your lengthy and detailed posts. I REALLY appreciate it. I'm not going anywhere. Majority rules here. I love my program. Debt is debt, and at the end of the day, i'm a realist. As long as i stay within my means and realize that its just money and worrying won't change anything, then i feel like i'll be golden. If anything this is just more motivation for me to grind harder toward that final prize of the DPT. I'd love for more people to keep chiming in on this as it isn't just me in this situation and everyone could use the "pick me up" you all have provided.

Thanks a million,

JD

 

[Lolawashere]

I want to thank you all for your lengthy and detailed posts. I REALLY appreciate it. I'm not going anywhere. Majority rules here. I love my program. Debt is debt, and at the end of the day, i'm a realist. As long as i stay within my means and realize that its just money and worrying won't change anything, then i feel like i'll be golden. If anything this is just more motivation for me to grind harder toward that final prize of the DPT. I'd love for more people to keep chiming in on this as it isn't just me in this situation and everyone could use the "pick me up" you all have provided.

Thanks a million,

JD

JDaniels, do you go to University of Miami by any chance? I graduated from there last May. For the record, regarding salary and new grads in South Flordia, my classmates that have stayed have been given offers of around 65k annually. For the most part, you make much more (about $40/hr) doing per diem in south florida. Most people get 2 per diem positions to equal a 40 hr full time position and get paid well doing that. The market in South Florida is saturated with PTs and thus much more competitive. If you're willing to work in SNFs and acute care, you should be fine though.

 

[Bluecase]

You gotta spend money to make money. There were ppl in my class with almost 200k after pt and undergrad. They have jobs and are surviving and enjoying working life just fine.

 

[DMACK22]

First off, the OP noted that he had just wrapped up the first semester. Even so, I think that the advice you are doubling down on is absolutely horrible and will cause more harm than anything else (by sticking a nagging claw of "what if?" in JD360's mind when the "what if?" scenario is a fool's gamble).

Yes, $130k in debt is a psychological burden. It would be less of a burden to have less debt by being enrolled in a lower cost school or to have the financial assistance of a parent or spouse. Very likely the OP is looking at a couple years of hard work and frugality out of the gate before coasting to something more manageable. But let's really unpack this scenario of yours:

1. Withdraw from school (maybe sell back books, hope to get back tuition for the upcoming semester, ultimately lose access to student loans...and what's the policy on taking out loans then withdrawing? Do you have to start paying them back immediately? I have no idea off the top of my head and I never want to have to know.)
2. Coast on what remains of loans until you can get a job
3. Find a job to pay bills/save money (bartending? waiting tables? how quickly can someone find a job that really allows them to accumulate significant savings in one year? If it were that easy, I don't think that applications would be so competitive.)
4. Identify the low cost schools that are in state or wave residency requirements easily. I'm sure there are hundreds...
5. Go through applications again. Pay the application fees. Bear the cost of travelling for interviews and hope that all the time away from work doesn't get you let go from your new job.
6. Cross every finger and toe on your body hoping that you got in to one of these gems
7a: You got in! Now pack up everything, quit your crappy job, move somewhere else and start over. All of this will take additional money. Considering previously accumulated debt, tuition increases, and the year spent waiting to establish residency at your new school, you now graduate one year later than you otherwise would with only $80k in debt. Yay! You saved $50k!
---or---
7b: You didn't get in. You have non-defaultable student debt payments to make and a crappy job. You can try again next year and hope for better results, delaying your career yet another year or more.

Or you could just stay on track and work an extra 10-15 hours/week for your first couple of years, pay off the debt faster and you'd quickly end up in the same financial position as 7a above. And I think it would be much less stressful.

What are the odds between 7a and 7b above that would make this gamble worth it? It's a personal choice, I suppose. Even if it were 90% certain that I would get in somewhere and save $50k, I would balk at taking that risk when I know that I could be in the same financial place with a little bit of extra work my first couple of years (and I will have graduated a year earlier).

I think folks playing roulette in Las Vegas are making foolish financial decisions, and I think following your advice would be foolish as well. Risk tolerances are an individual thing, though, so perhaps we are just approaching this from different risk preferences, hence our disagreement. But then it's always easy to gamble with someone else's money.

I wasn't expecting such a lengthy response and the way you "unpacked" my scenario was interesting to read. From my perspective avoiding as much debt as possible is always the right decision but I completely agree with your statement regarding different risk preferences between individuals. Let's just hope that the OP and others in private schools are able to diffuse that 100k+ student loan bomb in a timely fashion.

 

[SBanks]

If you take 10 or more stinkin years to pay off your loans, you have problems with basic math, economics and the concept of "total amount paid." Broke people ask "how much per month?" Wealthy people ask "how much?- As in how much total will I have to pay. Some of you need to come back to reality here. If I had 130K in debt, I would work 60+ hours a week, live off of 30k/year or less, and pay that nonsense off ASAP. 2-3 years MAX. It's amazing that some of you smart PTs here are so idiotic when it comes to money. Pay it off dude. I guarantee you'll be 1000 times better off truckin it for a few years, then keeping that stupid loan around like its a freaking pet.

 

[DesertPT]

If you take 10 or more stinkin years to pay off your loans, you have problems with basic math, economics and the concept of "total amount paid." Broke people ask "how much per month?" Wealthy people ask "how much?- As in how much total will I have to pay. Some of you need to come back to reality here. If I had 130K in debt, I would work 60+ hours a week, live off of 30k/year or less, and pay that nonsense off ASAP. 2-3 years MAX. It's amazing that some of you smart PTs here are so idiotic when it comes to money. Pay it off dude. I guarantee you'll be 1000 times better off truckin it for a few years, then keeping that stupid loan around like its a freaking pet.

That plan would work if you were single. Your timescale is going to be twice as long or more if you're married and have a couple of kids. You're not going to be supporting a family of four on $30k or less a year. And even if you could, why go to such great lengths to pursue a doctoral education just to live in squalor for years?For people who are raising families and actually want to spend time with them (big part of the reason most of the people who go into PT do so, for the lifestyle), and who may very well have a stay at home spouse or part time working spouse, paying off $130k of principal plus interest in less than 3 years is just not possible. You need to think about that fact that other people's situations are different than your own before you go labeling whole groups of people as idiotic.

 

[SBanks]

Look, bottom line is this: Keeping a student loan around for more than 2-3 years just for the sake of having a lifestyle is STUPID. If you have a family, the same logic applies when paying off your loan. Combine incomes, work 60+ hours a week, live on a very strict budget, learn how to say NO and pay it off. Paying $1000 or more a month for 10 years for school is a bad financial decision any way you look at it.

People in Iraq live in squalor, not people in the United States.

I actually am married. My wife is a PA-C so she will make really good money, but if she didn't we would still have a plan to pay it off in 2-3 years. It's called a written monthly budget. I wouldn't spend 130k on school though, but that's just me. Your decisions have consequences. Time to be adults here.

 

[AlanWattsBlues]

For people who are raising families and actually want to spend time with them (big part of the reason most of the people who go into PT do so, for the lifestyle), and who may very well have a stay at home spouse or part time working spouse, paying off $130k of principal plus interest in less than 3 years is just not possible. You need to think about that fact that other people's situations are different than your own before you go labeling whole groups of people as idiotic.

knj--Thanks for replying to this. I found the post that prompted it to be nonconstructive, and it seemed to ignore the fact that people have different constraints and goals (both financially and personally). For some people, it may make sense to pay loans off on a longer time span. It's their life, their decision.

While there are certainly people who lack financial acumen, calling them "stupid" or "idiotic" is not a productive way to help them appreciate the time value of money and the force of interest. My two cents.

If I were to ignore a patient's goals and constraints and educate them by telling them how stupid they are, I'm not sure that I would be setting myself or the patient up for success. Good PT seems like a good approach to interacting with other human beings in general.

But I guess this is just some guy blowing off steam on an internet discussion forum, which is one of the large purposes of the internet (to provide a place for people to anonymously shout angry things at people they don't know). So this is a good thing. I can confirm that the internet is not broken.

 

[ptlover]

My two cents: To be in PT school is a blessing. You are pursuing your dream career. Every day you'll wake up doing what you love. EVERY young PT I know has debt. They live with it. They live frugal enough but not to the point where they can't enjoy life or their career. You're in a great position that many fight for and wish to be in, cherish it, and enjoy! PT school is so tough to get into nowadays! Money is just an object sometimes. Pay it off in a timely manner, which it sounds like you will and I'm sure you'll be fine 🙂

 

[jdaniels360]

AMEN sbanks. I totally agree with you. This is strictly based however, on the fact that i am not supporting a family or kids and am willing to grind as soon as i get out. Whatever it takes. Like i said before, i regret my decision to come to south florida but i'm too deep in the game now to turn back. So i've accepted it is what it is and am now really enjoying my time here with that monkey off my back. I got myself into this situation, and i'll be the one to get me out. Time to be an adult here like one of you mentioned above.

 

[DesertPT]

Look, bottom line is this: Keeping a student loan around for more than 2-3 years just for the sake of having a lifestyle is STUPID. If you have a family, the same logic applies when paying off your loan. Combine incomes, work 60+ hours a week, live on a very strict budget, learn how to say NO and pay it off. Paying $1000 or more a month for 10 years for school is a bad financial decision any way you look at it.

People in Iraq live in squalor, not people in the United States.

I actually am married. My wife is a PA-C so she will make really good money, but if she didn't we would still have a plan to pay it off in 2-3 years. It's called a written monthly budget. I wouldn't spend 130k on school though, but that's just me. Your decisions have consequences. Time to be adults here.

Are you even a PT or a PT student? You're the rudest person in PT I've personally seen if you are.

Calling people stupid is not going to cause them to heed your advice. Some people would rather pay loans for a few years longer and have more time to spend with their kids. Some people would rather have a wife who is a stay-at-home mom. People who have different ideals and values than you are not stupid or idiotic, just different. Just like people's financial decisions have consequences, as you say, your decision to believe that you exist on an intellectual ivory tower will have consequences for you too.

 

[gjzim]

I understand the anxiety of student debt. I have 55k alone from undergraduate. I know that I will take out at least 100k more just in tuition for PT school, that doesn't include housing. So I'm guessing that I will be at least 200k in when I finish PT school. I have been doing my research. If I'm lucky I could possibly make 80k haha probably not starting, but one can dream. Any who, 80k looks a lot more like 60k when they take out taxes which is 25%. After that I see it 2 ways: I can do the 25 year plan at 15% of my income, but then that leaves me with 40% of my income gone and by the time the 25 years is done they wont have anything to "pay off" for you, so to me it's a scam. Also a PT who treats me pays 2k a month on his 200k loans (he imagines he'll pay his debt off in 10 years), but if you make 80k after taxes that 60k which is 5k a month, then you'll have 3k left. So basically you are making 36k a year. Spending 200k and for me 12 years of school, just to make that of what a high school teacher makes. I'll be 31 or so when I'm done with PT school, so I'll be 41 by the time I can actually afford to have a family and not struggle. I love the idea of being a PT, I have never been more passionate or excited about my future until I decided to become a PT, but how am I supposed to save up to go on family vacations, or save up for my future childrens college when I took out 200k+ in loans which is basically a house, just to make what a high school teacher makes? I don't want to seem like I'm only in it for the money, but I do want to enjoy life, travel, and make sure my potential children are taken care of. I just wonder if its really worth it.

 

[Bluecase]

Also you forgot about state tax, social security tax, Medicare tax, benefits, and putting money away for retirement (unless you plan on just working until you die) so your 25% is actually 35%.

Just keepin it real

 

[noyceguy]

A 30-year payment plan on 130K is $847.50 a month. You are likely to make around 65k a year before taxes, which is about 48.7K after taxes, which is 4K a month. This means your student loan debt alone will consume about 20% of your take-home pay. With the remaining $3200 you will have to pay for housing, transportation, food, insurance, and savings. If this is an acceptable situation for you, then by all means proceed. If not, you may want to pursue other means of achieving your education.

 

[ktachiba]

Your salary should increase as you gain experience. You won't be making 65K your entire career. You can also make 80k+ immediately after graduation by working 50 hour weeks or working travel PT, or working in high paying areas.

 

[NewTestament]

I'm doing travel PT and the pay for a new grad is $75k post tax. That's not too bad. You might have to work in some less desirable areas but you don't necessarily have to. If you work in an outpatient clinic in a large city (Philadelphia, New York), then you will make between $60-65k. But as ktachiba said, the upward potential for PT's is good. You can also work 5-10 hours PRN and make $50/hr to supplement your income.

 

[jblil]

I'm doing travel PT and the pay for a new grad is $75k post tax.

Which settings (SNFs, OP, etc) do you usually get sent to? I also assume they are in more rural areas? This is something I may do for a year or two.

 

[NewTestament]

Which settings (SNFs, OP, etc) do you usually get sent to? I also assume they are in more rural areas? This is something I may do for a year or two.

Outpatient is usually harder, but I have a buddy in California making $1700/week in an outpatient clinic and he has <1 year experience. Hospitals and SNFs are the most popular settings.

 

[NewDPT31]

Look, bottom line is this: Keeping a student loan around for more than 2-3 years just for the sake of having a lifestyle is STUPID. If you have a family, the same logic applies when paying off your loan. Combine incomes, work 60+ hours a week, live on a very strict budget, learn how to say NO and pay it off. Paying $1000 or more a month for 10 years for school is a bad financial decision any way you look at it.

People in Iraq live in squalor, not people in the United States.

I actually am married. My wife is a PA-C so she will make really good money, but if she didn't we would still have a plan to pay it off in 2-3 years. It's called a written monthly budget. I wouldn't spend 130k on school though, but that's just me. Your decisions have consequences. Time to be adults here.

This is asinine.
This is classic ivory tower Austerity mixed with Dave Ramsey Ballyhoo Buffoonery.
Everybody has different situations. Before I met my fiance(just got engaged!), I was sinking. I made $85k (before taxes), living in Chicago, and sinking. After taxes, retirement, car, apartment, insurance, loans, food, parking, weddings, and being a frugal yet outgoing 26 year old, Not a whole lot was left. Only after joining incomes(and rent) with my fiance(who is also a PA-C), was I able to finally start saving and able to breathe.
I understand now that borrowing $250k for PT school was ridiculous, something I didn't know at 18 when I decided on it. But, I can't change that now. I do work 50-60hrs per week including about 60 hours of PRN work a month.
It depends on where you live(texas vs chicago vs LA vs cincinatti vs etc), what your social situations are(do you have friends, do you like to go out to eat, do you go to bars, do you have 16 weddings over the last 2 years like us, etc), what your comfort level with debt is, your family situation(single vs SO vs SO c kids).

I decided early that I was going to live my life and enjoy my friends and family. I spent a year after grad school in PHX making about $80k with 2 jobs, not going out with people, not having major friend group, and not doing a whole hell of a lot. When I moved to Chicago I decided I didn't want to regret not enjoying my life while I was younger. I would rather pay my loans off over a longer time(fed loans are in line for forgiveness but still cost about $1000/month), (and the other 800-1000 are with private loans each month), than wake up at 35 with no life but no debt. What kind of life is that? Not for me. Some might call it unwise, but I've seen people say "i'll travel when i'm retired", yet when they retire they are not in good health and never get to do what they wanted. So I travel. So I travel to see friends. So I go to live shows. So I work a lot as well.

Now I have to save for a wedding(and it's not reasonable to expect every couple to have a $2000 wedding like some people). There are family expectations and dynamics that also influence it. And then we want to buy a house, but property taxes alone in chicago are the equivalent of a massive house's mortgage payment in some parts of the country. And then we want to have children, and then you have to pay for childcare(~$2000/month), and then school(private school when public schools aren't that good).

There is so much more that goes into it. This is seriously Dave Ramsey BS rationalizing of debt. If we all followed the Dave Ramsey school of idiocy, we would all be sitting around eating ham sandwiches on friday night and pirating TV on our 3mb internet for 10 years. Hell no.

You can compromise between a good lifestyle and working hard/extra, but every situation is different and it's best not to judge everyone based on your situation.

 

[engmedpt]

This is asinine.
This is classic ivory tower Austerity mixed with Dave Ramsey Ballyhoo Buffoonery.
Everybody has different situations. Before I met my fiance(just got engaged!), I was sinking. I made $85k (before taxes), living in Chicago, and sinking. After taxes, retirement, car, apartment, insurance, loans, food, parking, weddings, and being a frugal yet outgoing 26 year old, Not a whole lot was left. Only after joining incomes(and rent) with my fiance(who is also a PA-C), was I able to finally start saving and able to breathe.
I understand now that borrowing $250k for PT school was ridiculous, something I didn't know at 18 when I decided on it. But, I can't change that now. I do work 50-60hrs per week including about 60 hours of PRN work a month.
It depends on where you live(texas vs chicago vs LA vs cincinatti vs etc), what your social situations are(do you have friends, do you like to go out to eat, do you go to bars, do you have 16 weddings over the last 2 years like us, etc), what your comfort level with debt is, your family situation(single vs SO vs SO c kids).

I decided early that I was going to live my life and enjoy my friends and family. I spent a year after grad school in PHX making about $80k with 2 jobs, not going out with people, not having major friend group, and not doing a whole hell of a lot. When I moved to Chicago I decided I didn't want to regret not enjoying my life while I was younger. I would rather pay my loans off over a longer time(fed loans are in line for forgiveness but still cost about $1000/month), (and the other 800-1000 are with private loans each month), than wake up at 35 with no life but no debt. What kind of life is that? Not for me. Some might call it unwise, but I've seen people say "i'll travel when i'm retired", yet when they retire they are not in good health and never get to do what they wanted. So I travel. So I travel to see friends. So I go to live shows. So I work a lot as well.

Now I have to save for a wedding(and it's not reasonable to expect every couple to have a $2000 wedding like some people). There are family expectations and dynamics that also influence it. And then we want to buy a house, but property taxes alone in chicago are the equivalent of a massive house's mortgage payment in some parts of the country. And then we want to have children, and then you have to pay for childcare(~$2000/month), and then school(private school when public schools aren't that good).

There is so much more that goes into it. This is seriously Dave Ramsey BS rationalizing of debt. If we all followed the Dave Ramsey school of idiocy, we would all be sitting around eating ham sandwiches on friday night and pirating TV on our 3mb internet for 10 years. Hell no.

You can compromise between a good lifestyle and working hard/extra, but every situation is different and it's best not to judge everyone based on your situation.

The fact that you are being responsible for your decision and unfortunately were victim to a lending system not in line with market predictions and yet you still help people out on this forum makes you pretty much my hero. Have an awesome wedding.

 

[jesspt]

This is asinine.
This is classic ivory tower Austerity mixed with Dave Ramsey Ballyhoo Buffoonery.
Everybody has different situations. Before I met my fiance(just got engaged!), I was sinking. I made $85k (before taxes), living in Chicago, and sinking. After taxes, retirement, car, apartment, insurance, loans, food, parking, weddings, and being a frugal yet outgoing 26 year old, Not a whole lot was left. Only after joining incomes(and rent) with my fiance(who is also a PA-C), was I able to finally start saving and able to breathe.
I understand now that borrowing $250k for PT school was ridiculous, something I didn't know at 18 when I decided on it. But, I can't change that now. I do work 50-60hrs per week including about 60 hours of PRN work a month.
It depends on where you live(texas vs chicago vs LA vs cincinatti vs etc), what your social situations are(do you have friends, do you like to go out to eat, do you go to bars, do you have 16 weddings over the last 2 years like us, etc), what your comfort level with debt is, your family situation(single vs SO vs SO c kids).

I decided early that I was going to live my life and enjoy my friends and family. I spent a year after grad school in PHX making about $80k with 2 jobs, not going out with people, not having major friend group, and not doing a whole hell of a lot. When I moved to Chicago I decided I didn't want to regret not enjoying my life while I was younger. I would rather pay my loans off over a longer time(fed loans are in line for forgiveness but still cost about $1000/month), (and the other 800-1000 are with private loans each month), than wake up at 35 with no life but no debt. What kind of life is that? Not for me. Some might call it unwise, but I've seen people say "i'll travel when i'm retired", yet when they retire they are not in good health and never get to do what they wanted. So I travel. So I travel to see friends. So I go to live shows. So I work a lot as well.

Now I have to save for a wedding(and it's not reasonable to expect every couple to have a $2000 wedding like some people). There are family expectations and dynamics that also influence it. And then we want to buy a house, but property taxes alone in chicago are the equivalent of a massive house's mortgage payment in some parts of the country. And then we want to have children, and then you have to pay for childcare(~$2000/month), and then school(private school when public schools aren't that good).

There is so much more that goes into it. This is seriously Dave Ramsey BS rationalizing of debt. If we all followed the Dave Ramsey school of idiocy, we would all be sitting around eating ham sandwiches on friday night and pirating TV on our 3mb internet for 10 years. Hell no.

You can compromise between a good lifestyle and working hard/extra, but every situation is different and it's best not to judge everyone based on your situation.

Dude,

Hit the 'burbs once you have kids. Great public schools so no need for private school tuition. This will be the first year all three kids are going to public school!!!!

I hear you on the property taxes though. If you think Chicago is bad, take a gander at Lake County...

 

[MonsieurTarzan]

Look, bottom line is this: Keeping a student loan around for more than 2-3 years just for the sake of having a lifestyle is STUPID. If you have a family, the same logic applies when paying off your loan. Combine incomes, work 60+ hours a week, live on a very strict budget, learn how to say NO and pay it off. Paying $1000 or more a month for 10 years for school is a bad financial decision any way you look at it.

People in Iraq live in squalor, not people in the United States.

I actually am married. My wife is a PA-C so she will make really good money, but if she didn't we would still have a plan to pay it off in 2-3 years. It's called a written monthly budget. I wouldn't spend 130k on school though, but that's just me. Your decisions have consequences. Time to be adults here.

Nice to know that you would do it if you had to.