Debt

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Columbia09

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How much debt do you expect to have when you enter med school? Assuming that your med school will cost 200, 000 $, how will you be able to pay it off? Does this make life more difficult to start a family/buy a house?
 
You pay it off after you are done with school

After school, you can find work as a physician

As a physician, your income is unparalleled and you can use that income to pay off loans if you so choose

That income also attracts people. Select the most attractive/compatible person and impregnate them with your seed. Find a suitable location to nest, buy it, and raise the child(ren).
 
Okay Columbia, I felt bad before for the post, but you really are posting alot of neurotic threads where you're stressed and worried about everything - try and take a nice walk outside and just do what you can and worry about the rest later.

or search function.
 
200K? how?

Unless you go to a cheap state school or LECOM, or living at home, there's no way you graduate with less than 240K in debt (40K tuition + 20K for books and living expenses per year), and that's not including interests.

As of now, I'm 50K+ in debt. I'm projecting to finish med school with 400K+ loans.

Am I terrified? Hell yeah!
Is this going to stop me from pursuing my dream? Hell no!

Post residency, I'm planning to make 300K, even if it means I have to work 100 hours/week. After taxes, that's 200K. Survive on 30K and through the remaining 170K toward the loans. 3 years later, my debt is paid. Easier said than done, but if there's a well there's a way.
 
OP, you'll pay it off in the end without too much headache. Just pass on the brand new bimmer.
 
*shrugs*

I used to fret and worry over debt a lot, then I realized that I love medicine and that's what's important. I can't imagine myself doing anything else with my life. Working with people makes me happy. Being in the hospital makes me happy. This happiness is worth the debt and more because it's a dream of mine.

Focus on the dream, realize that the debt is inevitable, but your happiness in fulfilling your vocation is worth it and more. 😎
 
OP, I hate spending money. I idea of being $200k in debt when I'm trying to start a family is terrifying. BUT you'll be pulling down more than that per year. Like primary care, but not the primary care paycheck? Sweet! Really easy to get help with that. It will be OK. Compared to a 40 year career of idk lets say $300k/yr it's nothing.
 
KinesiologyNerd said:
OP, I hate spending money. I idea of being $200k in debt when I'm trying to start a family is terrifying. BUT you'll be pulling down more than that per year. Like primary care, but not the primary care paycheck? Sweet! Really easy to get help with that. It will be OK. Compared to a 40 year career of idk lets say $300k/yr it's nothing.
Click to expand...

Am I the only one who thinks that the real money, besides cosmetics, is in primary care?

I honestly cannot think of any other medical field where one could have all the flexibility and variety needed to establish a successful medical practice.
 
$200k is on the very low end...more like $350-400K+ with schools like CCOM and AZCOM and their $80k COA, and 6.8-7.9% interest rates, and 3-4% annual tuition hikes.
 
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chizledfrmstone said:
Edit: Are primary care physicians really making $300k now? I spoke to a few and they're making $175-$225k. One is making $250k but he has years of experience. The only guys I know making $300k+ is a cardiologist and a surgeon.
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My point was that most specialties outside of primary care, you should be able to find a salary that's greater than your debt. It's situationally dependent though. I mean, if you want to live in the nicest area code in the country, expect less. Where I am isn't exactly a desired part of the country, and specialists (especially subspecialists) are making 2x,3x,4x national averages. I know it's not like this everywhere, but that's why I always have trouble believing national average data.


user3 said:
$200k is on the very low end...more like $350-400K+ with schools like CCOM and AZCOM and their $80k COA, and 6.8-7.9% interest rates, and 3-4% annual tuition hikes.
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Yeah, Midwestern is ridiculous. Nothing about my interview there made $55k/yr worth it. I'm going to an in-state MD school and my COA is less than CCOM tuition. Thank god as long as my dad is still working he's going to help with tuition. Hopefully that'll keep me under $200k.
 
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This is really why I'm slowly finding LECOM, OUCOM, and UMDNJ to be my DO top choices. I don't want extremely high debt racking up on me.
 
Columbia09 said:
Well you're right about on thing but wrong about the other 😛
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{insert cheap and overused bottom joke}?

Edit: I meant the joke is overused apologize if offended.
 
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Ibn Alnafis MD said:
200K? how?

Unless you go to a cheap state school or LECOM, or living at home, there's no way you graduate with less than 240K in debt (40K tuition + 20K for books and living expenses per year), and that's not including interests.

As of now, I'm 50K+ in debt. I'm projecting to finish med school with 400K+ loans.

Am I terrified? Hell yeah!
Is this going to stop me from pursuing my dream? Hell no!

Post residency, I'm planning to make 300K, even if it means I have to work 100 hours/week. After taxes, that's 200K. Survive on 30K and through the remaining 170K toward the loans. 3 years later, my debt is paid. Easier said than done, but if there's a well there's a way.
Click to expand...

That is a scary scenario!
 
I find LECOM very enticing after reading this thread...
 
Beargryllz said:
You pay it off after you are done with school

After school, you can find work as a physician

As a physician, your income is unparalleled and you can use that income to pay off loans if you so choose

That income also attracts people. Select the most attractive/compatible person and impregnate them with your seed. Find a suitable location to nest, buy it, and raise the child(ren).
Click to expand...

Spoken like a true biologist.
 
KinesiologyNerd said:
My point was that most specialties outside of primary care, you should be able to find a salary that's greater than your debt. It's situationally dependent though. I mean, if you want to live in the nicest area code in the country, expect less. Where I am isn't exactly a desired part of the country, and specialists (especially subspecialists) are making 2x,3x,4x national averages. I know it's not like this everywhere, but that's why I always have trouble believing national average data.




Yeah, Midwestern is ridiculous. Nothing about my interview there made $55k/yr worth it. I'm going to an in-state MD school and my COA is less than CCOM tuition. Thank god as long as my dad is still working he's going to help with tuition. Hopefully that'll keep me under $200k.
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Are you saying for instance a cardiologist where you are is making 600k/year?
 
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chizledfrmstone said:
I meant tack on another $200k to the $300k accrued in tuition. So $500k overall.

In the $200k I'm counting new car and maybe a house on the VERY cheap end.

I've seen it happen a few times. A few of my friends and family members are physicians. Person graduates... now wants to finally enjoy life at age 28 or whatever. Maybe the people I know are just really irresponsible?

I'm a frugal person and I consider myself a financially responsible person. After all those years of education there is no way I'm living on 30k/year. 45-50k/year maybe.

This is just for discussion purposes and I'm not trying to deter the OP. It's definitely manageable.

Edit: Are primary care physicians really making $300k now? I spoke to a few and they're making $175-$225k. One is making $250k but he has years of experience. The only guys I know making $300k+ is a cardiologist and a surgeon.
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Last I checked, Radiologists and Cardiologists make a median pay of 350 grand a year.

I personally plan to be a radiologist because I was a certified nuclear medicine technologist. I enjoy the imaging stuff, but time will tell if I stay with that mind set.

Also, everyone talking about debt might want to look into the military. For a 4 year commitment, they will pay for all of your school including housing if you stay on campus, plus they give you 2 grand a month to live off of.



Are you saying for instance a cardiologist where you are is making 600k/year?
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Certainly not someone just starting out, but I am sure there are doctors out there making over a million a year. It really depends on where you work, and I am sure many hospitals in need would give extra incentive for someone to move.
 
Temperature101 said:
Are you saying for instance a cardiologist where you are is making 600k/year?
Click to expand...

They definitely do. It wasn't in our area, but I remember seeing a recruitment ad in NEJM for an experienced interventional cardiologist with a "generous" starting salary of like $700k. Establish physicians in subspecialty private practice make sooo much money. A few years ago some of the local oncology guys were making 7 figures. It's now "fallen off" to high 6 figures. Orthopedic surgeon who scoped my knee drives a ferrari and lives in a million dollar house. Again, your results may vary, but there's a butt load of money out there for physicians if you know where to look.
 
I'm gunna cure my PTs by makin it rain hunnin dolla billz on em.
 
VinceViegel said:
wat
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She gay.

So Columbia, if I can give you some numbers, it may make you sick, but may also make you realize that the daunting debt of medical school can be paid off quickly no matter the specialty you pursue. These are estimations but they should be pretty close.

Over my 4 years of med school I'll take out a total of $320K (accounting for average tuition increase of 3.8 percent per year the last 4 years and average yearly cost of living increase). Including interest that will equal approx. $390K upon completion of school. After graduation I will refinance my loans (several options) to about a 3% interest rate so it accumulates less interest during residency.

If I pay nothing during 4 years of residency then begin paying around 5k a month toward loans, I'll pay off my loans in 7-8 years after residency. Grand total equaling about $480K. (I have all the real numbers I calculated on a spreadsheet but I'm not looking at that now so some numbers may be off a bit.)

5K may seem like a lot but consider going from resident salary (40-50K pre-tax) to, let's say, $200K taxed at 40% you bring home $120K and put half of that to loans, you are still living off 15-20k more than before. 60k is a very reasonable amount to live off of for a few years. If you make, say, 400K, then set a budget to live off 100K and put the rest toward loans. Pay it off in 3 years!

The point of all this is that yes the debt sucks and its honestly terrifying, but it can be dealt with just fine if you are wise with your money. Others will choose minimum payments, some will choose hpsp, and some the nhsc. You'll figure out what works for you.
 
abolt18 said:
She gay.

So Columbia, if I can give you some numbers, it may make you sick, but may also make you realize that the daunting debt of medical school can be paid off quickly no matter the specialty you pursue. These are estimations but they should be pretty close.

Over my 4 years of med school I'll take out a total of $320K (accounting for average tuition increase of 3.8 percent per year the last 4 years and average yearly cost of living increase). Including interest that will equal approx. $390K upon completion of school. After graduation I will refinance my loans (several options) to about a 3% interest rate so it accumulates less interest during residency.

If I pay nothing during 4 years of residency then begin paying around 5k a month toward loans, I'll pay off my loans in 7-8 years after residency. Grand total equaling about $480K. (I have all the real numbers I calculated on a spreadsheet but I'm not looking at that now so some numbers may be off a bit.)

5K may seem like a lot but consider going from resident salary (40-50K pre-tax) to, let's say, $200K taxed at 40% you bring home $120K and put half of that to loans, you are still living off 15-20k more than before. 60k is a very reasonable amount to live off of for a few years. If you make, say, 400K, then set a budget to live off 100K and put the rest toward loans. Pay it off in 3 years!

The point of all this is that yes the debt sucks and its honestly terrifying, but it can be dealt with just fine if you are wise with your money. Others will choose minimum payments, some will choose hpsp, and some the nhsc. You'll figure out what works for you.
Click to expand...

This is more or less my plan (perhaps minus the refinancing part because I'd like the opportunity to do NHSC should I get the itch and I've seen people get turned down because they refinanced).

I've been living on around $20-30K for 7 years now, and I'm married with 3 kids. It's not easy but we've gotten good at it, and we don't really feel like we're sacrificing that much. There's no reason why we should struggle to live on twice that in the future while we throw the rest at loans.
 
chizledfrmstone said:
I know one making close to $800k. He probably has 10+ years of experience though. The demand is so high but no one wants to work in that area.

Another one working in an urban area is making $300k and he's happy. He was given the option to make 2x but wanted to stay near his kids who were in college.
Click to expand...

That is a crazy amount of money! One can make that for 7 years, live cheap and then retire...
 
HPSP is also a very legitimate option, especially if you're going to do primary care.
 
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abolt18 said:
She gay.

So Columbia, if I can give you some numbers, it may make you sick, but may also make you realize that the daunting debt of medical school can be paid off quickly no matter the specialty you pursue. These are estimations but they should be pretty close.

Over my 4 years of med school I'll take out a total of $320K (accounting for average tuition increase of 3.8 percent per year the last 4 years and average yearly cost of living increase). Including interest that will equal approx. $390K upon completion of school. After graduation I will refinance my loans (several options) to about a 3% interest rate so it accumulates less interest during residency.

If I pay nothing during 4 years of residency then begin paying around 5k a month toward loans, I'll pay off my loans in 7-8 years after residency. Grand total equaling about $480K. (I have all the real numbers I calculated on a spreadsheet but I'm not looking at that now so some numbers may be off a bit.)

5K may seem like a lot but consider going from resident salary (40-50K pre-tax) to, let's say, $200K taxed at 40% you bring home $120K and put half of that to loans, you are still living off 15-20k more than before. 60k is a very reasonable amount to live off of for a few years. If you make, say, 400K, then set a budget to live off 100K and put the rest toward loans. Pay it off in 3 years!

The point of all this is that yes the debt sucks and its honestly terrifying, but it can be dealt with just fine if you are wise with your money. Others will choose minimum payments, some will choose hpsp, and some the nhsc. You'll figure out what works for you.
Click to expand...

IBR and PSLF
 
Columbia09 said:
Are there ways though getting out of going over seas? Like you can stay in your home state on a base?
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Getting out of it? No, nothing short of some injury or illness putting you on limited duty. Staying in your home state is very unlikely as well. Aren't you in NY? Ya very close to nil chance. You have to try for the military match for residency. I think in general, trying to stay in one spot while pursuing medicine is going to be unlikely, military or not. So keep that in mind.
 
Columbia09 said:
Are there ways though getting out of going over seas? Like you can stay in your home state on a base?
Click to expand...

Certainly not. However, understand that you will only be sent to a fortified base to do work. They certainly aren't going to spend $200k+ and then send you to die.

Also, if you are married your spouse can go with you so long as the base you are on isn't in a war zone. For instance, if you were stationed in Korea or Germany, you'd be allowed to bring your spouse.

And apparently it's only a 4 year commitment. A good way to see the world a bit for sure.
 
mcgst9 said:
Certainly not. However, understand that you will only be sent to a fortified base to do work. They certainly aren't going to spend $200k+ and then send you to die.

Also, if you are married your spouse can go with you so long as the base you are on isn't in a war zone. For instance, if you were stationed in Korea or Germany, you'd be allowed to bring your spouse.

And apparently it's only a 4 year commitment. A good way to see the world a bit for sure.
Click to expand...

You have to pay back every year of residency as well. That being said you're saving about 350k in loans and making ~ 100k in stipends during med school. Then in residency you're making ~ 60k with full benefits. Then after residency about 110k for primary care, of which 20-30 k is untaxable. It's a good deal.
 
NontradCA said:
You have to pay back every year of residency as well. That being said you're saving about 350k in loans and making ~ 100k in stipends during med school. Then in residency you're making ~ 60k with full benefits. Then after residency about 110k for primary care, of which 20-30 k is untaxable. It's a good deal.
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My only problem with this is my boyfriend. We might get married in a couple of years and I don't want this making things difficult
 
Columbia09 said:
My only problem with this is a boyfriend. We might get married in a couple of years and I don't want this making things difficult
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Well that's something to consider, but you could always take him with you. The military also got rid of DADT, so you're fine there as well.
 
Columbia09 said:
My only problem with this is my boyfriend. We might get married in a couple of years and I don't want this making things difficult
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And let me just say that you shouldn't limit your career options based on what MIGHT happen in a relationship.
 
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Columbia09 said:
This is true but I'm determined to make things work. How hard is it anyway getting married in med school ?
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Marriage is hard to juggle with anything. Med school shouldn't be putting your life on hold. Why do you always over think everything?
 
Military FAP is a better option, especially if you're not going to have monstrous debt.
 
KinesiologyNerd said:
Match the civilian residency of your choice, get $45k/yr toward your debt and a $2k/mon stipend. Owe year for year plus 1.
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You're going to be making less during residency and less during medical school. The military has some quality residency programs, and have been getting better. They're also all ACGME.
 
As long as you aren't murdering civilians, the military isn't a bad option.
 
Radon XP said:
As long as you aren't murdering civilians, the military isn't a bad option.
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