Deceptive post-interview love
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Sorry dude (or dudette), the vast majority of schools will give you positive feedback afterwards with absolutely no correlation to where they're going to rank you. Applicants tell schools "I loved your program, I'm going to rank y'all highly," and programs tell applicants "Oh you're a great applicant, we think you'd be a great fit here." When I applied, I had a school send me a love email...timestamped from before I actually sat down for my first interview.
It's part of the game, don't take it personally.
Arch Guillotti
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Don't hate the player, hate the game. Applicants probably game the systme as much or more than the programs themselves.
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Yup 👍 x1000
I got burned by MANY applicants when I was on an adcom.
The only thing you should count on is a signed, notarized letter from the PD guaranteeing you a #1 spot. And if you get one of those, be sure to put on a helmet (for the flying pigs that will hit you in the head).
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I think most candidates are pretty honest as long as you know the definitions of what people are saying. Programs are probably less reliable. Many have been doing this for a while and game the system. I only tell people they are assured a spot if they are absolutely assured a spot.
From the candidate:
No contact at all post interview=they are probably not interested at all in your program
I am ranking your program highly=I am ranking your program
You have a great program and I would love to be a part of it=will rank program, but not first
I am ranking your program number one and I hope to match there=they are probably ranking your program number one
From the program:
You are ranked to match=two ways to take this and I have heard both: either they are ranking you within the top number of however many positions they are taking OR they are basing it on typical historical data (ie "most years we go to 40 on our list and you are ranked in our top 40 so you will probably get this program if you rank us first").
I think PD's have a lot of variation in how they manage this. Some make no contact, some make illegal offers, some make personalized contact with top candidates, some don't.
I like to think most are fair, but I could be way off.
All students need a good advisor that warns them that they cannot rely on verbal promises, no matter how sincere they seem. Rank lists should have plenty of backups just in case the good feelings you got from your numbers 1-3 weren't mutual.
From the candidate:
No contact at all post interview=they are probably not interested at all in your program
I am ranking your program highly=I am ranking your program
You have a great program and I would love to be a part of it=will rank program, but not first
I am ranking your program number one and I hope to match there=they are probably ranking your program number one
From the program:
You are ranked to match=two ways to take this and I have heard both: either they are ranking you within the top number of however many positions they are taking OR they are basing it on typical historical data (ie "most years we go to 40 on our list and you are ranked in our top 40 so you will probably get this program if you rank us first").
I think PD's have a lot of variation in how they manage this. Some make no contact, some make illegal offers, some make personalized contact with top candidates, some don't.
I like to think most are fair, but I could be way off.
All students need a good advisor that warns them that they cannot rely on verbal promises, no matter how sincere they seem. Rank lists should have plenty of backups just in case the good feelings you got from your numbers 1-3 weren't mutual.
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I think Gern's post is spot on. Really, go on the interviews that you get, to places you would like to go, and rank them according to whatever system you devised, and then wait for match day. The Match is designed for YOU the applicant to match in as high a spot as you can. There's no point in gaming the system, and really, whatever email the PD sends shouldn't really factor in the equation. If you interview at program X and think it's a long shot, but would like to go, rank it number one, regardless of whether the PD sends you an email, generic or not.
I think things that can help sway PD's and adcoms is to do an away, to show them that you are interested, like the city, etc.. That having been said, doing an away in anesthesia is nowhere near as necessary as in some other fields.
The long and short, soon to be MS4's, is that you should do exactly what the instructions for the Match tell you to. Go on interviews, and then rank programs according to PREFERENCE. You have nothing to lose by ranking them this way.
I think things that can help sway PD's and adcoms is to do an away, to show them that you are interested, like the city, etc.. That having been said, doing an away in anesthesia is nowhere near as necessary as in some other fields.
The long and short, soon to be MS4's, is that you should do exactly what the instructions for the Match tell you to. Go on interviews, and then rank programs according to PREFERENCE. You have nothing to lose by ranking them this way.
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what kind of contact did you get?
D
deleted126335
It was 25 years ago, but I still remember the look of rage on a program director's face when I told him that his program was my third choice and named my top two for him. I never made that mistake again.
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Good move! I hope you matched at one of your top 2.
For the OP, it's a bummer that you feel mislead by propaganda from a PD or Adcom. We can only hope that the propaganda didn't sway you away from what you truly wanted on you rank list. Lot's of people on here have commented (now and in the past) about the importance of the purity of the match system: If you rank the programs in your true order of preference, you will match at the highest of those programs that ranked YOU in a position that was still open after people they ranked ABOVE you are placed with them, regardless of the effect of any of the press/love/propaganda from the programs.
Sounds complex, but it can be very, very simple.
I only got the email not the personalized call you talked about. I kind of had an inkling at that point that things might go south.
I totally agree with Gern, as a candidate, I feel as though what I was saying was relatively transparent assuming you spoke the common language. I wish more programs were like Gern's where you get told you are going to match if you actually are statistically guaranteed.
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Sorry about what happened, but this thread serves the exact opposite purpose. Everyone should know the rules and that any verbal contact means nothing to NRMP. By singling out individual programs you are just misleading future applicants to think that all other programs will act "gentlemanly." Did you stopped your rank list at Stanford? Unless you did, you must have known the rule of the game.
