Deciding on a SMP (Tufts MBS vs EVMS)

[sobadsogood]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I'm a California resident with 3.3GPA (overall and sci) and MCAT 29. I got rejected from cincinnati and accepted at EVMS and Tufts. I was going to apply to more SMP programs, but then thought what's the point. Reason being it's a bit late to apply now and the top top SMP such as Temple and Tulane is a bit out of my league. As a next step down, I think Tufts is a good option. To my understanding, the main attraction to EVMS is gone with its large expansion in class size. The former glorious ratio of funneling MSMS students into its med school has vanished. Although they are still taking in the same number of students as before, the expanding class size has driven that ratio down dramatically. Without this advantage, Tufts seems to be the better option. It has a strong record of getting students into med school in general, unlike EVMS, and will interview students with good performance in the program, like EVMS. Given that both Tufts and EVMS has same chance of getting into their host program, through the good performance in the master program perspective, with Tufts being a higher ranked med school, Tufts edged out on that part. Moving on to the living situation, who doesn't want to live in Boston, that's all I'll say. Financially they cost about the same. So that's my train of thought, please comment and chime in your two cent.
PS. I might be waiting for RFU too, but Tufts still seems to be the better option.

 

[DrMidlife]

You describe Tulane as a top tier program, but let's be clear that the top tier Tulane program is the ACP, which requires a med school waitlist. There are a bunch of other Tulane programs that don't have the requirements nor the results of the ACP. The other Tulane programs, however, are more official and are degree-granting thus eligible for federal financial aid.

EVMS does have a long strong record of getting students into other med schools. I'd call that point a tie with Tufts. You are accurately describing the concern with EVMS class size increases, but the EVMS goals for class size increases and expansion into a 2 year program are almost identical to how Tufts was set up, about 5 years ago.

I think you have a choice between two reputable SMPs, and you're right that applying to more programs is kind of pointless.

Three things you don't mention, which are critical:

1. cost of attendance for your SMP + med school career. If your #1 goal is NOT to get into a UC back home, and your family or another payor ISN'T covering your education, then you will be in the 400k+ club for debt. You should be scared absolutely ****less by this. You should be looking at, and worrying about, COA in any school choices with SMP and med school.

2. Don't be in a big stupid hurry to apply MD. With your stats and your home state, you'd have a crappy app year if you try to apply before successfully completing an SMP year. PLAN on a gap year after your SMP year, maybe doing a 2nd "SMP" year at Tufts or EVMS with their MPH or research option.

3. Don't believe the hype. Yes, Tufts or EVMS will help you improve your med school chances, but those schools (and gtown et al) include DO and Carib and other foreign schools when they brag about their results. You are NOT going to be celebrated as a brilliant sparkling med school candidate at the UCs, USC et al when you successfully complete your SMP. Your MCAT score still hurts you, your undergrad GPA still hurts you, and the ridiculous number of undamaged applicants hurts you. Point being, an SMP is not an eraser, and you may not be one of the happy kids who get a good MD acceptance after their strong SMP performance.

Bottom line, when you're on a GPA redemption path, there's no reliable GPS or map to get you into med school. You have to step up, big time, much more than your unblemished future med school classmates, and be the grownup in charge of your future. Not a marketing victim, not a cookie cutter candidate.

One more thing: EVMS has a more regional focus and reputation than Tufts, but don't overestimate Tufts' reputation outside New England either.

Best of luck to you.
(ps, premature save, smartphone keyboard)

 

[sobadsogood]

First of all, I'm honored to have DrMidlife to be the first commentator, thank you for all your contributions to this community.



1. I did neglect the cost of med school. So with that in mind, the difference between two school's total cost is about 10k, with that I maintain the position that they cost about the same. It would be ideal to attend UC back home, but the chance of that happening is not high.

2. Everyone is in a rush to get done with school, which is especially true for me when I'm already out of school for two years. But, I have learned that patience is a virtue, though it is hard, I will apply after the completion of SMP, so my application will be the first that they see. As with your 2nd SMP year advice, what's the advantage of extending it at Tufts or EVMS for a year? Although there's no more tuition, I'm I still a free labor at the lab? If that's the case, I was thinking of living back home and finding a research position. I have been a lab manager/researcher close to 2 years now, I think I have a good chance of picking one up.

3. I know my MCAT needs improvement, so I do plan on taking it again, ideally before SMP starts. The big dark cloud over this is that I have already taken it 3 times.

Based on your response, I gather that in your opinion the two are about equal within their respective geographical region. So ultimately I should decide on whether I like to stay in New England or South Atlantic region?

 

[DrMidlife]

1. I did neglect the cost of med school. So with that in mind, the difference between two school's total cost is about 10k, with that I maintain the position that they cost about the same. It would be ideal to attend UC back home, but the chance of that happening is not high.

You're just looking at the SMP year. Look at the COA of med school. Then get more excited about a UC. The difference is well over $100k.

Also, not to completely muddy the waters, but when you start with a low GPA in California, you end up with the cost of multiple cross-country moves on top of the SMP, and a high COA private OOS med school east of the Mississippi, and a rapidly decreasing likelihood of going back to the west coast for residency. My perspective is heavily EVMS-biased, but my classmates who did Gtown, Drexel etc are looking at the same story.

2. Everyone is in a rush to get done with school, which is especially true for me when I'm already out of school for two years. But, I have learned that patience is a virtue, though it is hard, I will apply after the completion of SMP, so my application will be the first that they see. As with your 2nd SMP year advice, what's the advantage of extending it at Tufts or EVMS for a year? Although there's no more tuition, I'm I still a free labor at the lab? If that's the case, I was thinking of living back home and finding a research position. I have been a lab manager/researcher close to 2 years now, I think I have a good chance of picking one up.

Well, now I'll have to muddy the waters a lot.

I would definitely go back home if you've got a gig waiting for you, particularly if you can get some pubs.

AND if you want to get ballsy and creative and such, you could consider doing a rigorous 2-year masters in a real science, with pubs, at a good west coast school, as an SMP alternative. Combine that with a much-improved MCAT, and imho your California app is in the running for a UC, moreso than a SMP year.

3. I know my MCAT needs improvement, so I do plan on taking it again, ideally before SMP starts. The big dark cloud over this is that I have already taken it 3 times.

Oof. In that case, I suggest that you might want to accept that your odds, even with an SMP, are heavily weighted towards DO, and skip the SMP entirely. I don't see an SMP getting you an MD acceptance on top of a 3.3 and a 3rd time 29.

Based on your response, I gather that in your opinion the two are about equal within their respective geographical region. So ultimately I should decide on whether I like to stay in New England or South Atlantic region?

No, Tufts is a national name, and EVMS is not. But I didn't realize until I lived on the east coast that Tufts is kind of the bastard redhead stepkid for people who have lived in Boston. But Tufts alums would say nuh-uh.

OK, my responses above have taken you on a bunch of paths, so let me sum up with my prioritization of what you should do:
Choice 1. Accept your DO fate, skip the SMP, apply DO this summer, probably land at a Nova or AZCOM (midlevel).
2. Accept your DO fate, but try a bit harder for Western and add an asset like a pub before you apply
3. Get into a rigorous masters program that will beat the snot out of you, get published, maybe take 3 years, then retake the MCAT, get the equivalent of a 32+, and try for a UC because now you're a player.
4. Go do the Peace Corps, then do #3. Now you're a boss.
5. Go ahead and do Tufts or EVMS, go ahead and take the MCAT a 4th time, you probably will anyway regardless of what I say, but don't tell your parents they'll only see you on holidays for the next 10 years.

Sorry to be less than encouraging or optimistic, but I have a bunch of classmates from California who just went through the match and had their west coast hopes dashed. And I'm pretty tired of SMPs selling themselves as GPA redemption and then claiming DO or Carib as success. And I'm on night float. So take it all with a grain of salt.

Best of luck to you.