Deciding on programs to apply to

[guitarguy23]

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So I am planning on applying to all of my regional programs, around 30-40. I wanted to look at picking a view more but the amount of information is pretty overwhelming. Anybody have any advice about how they are or did look for programs to apply to?

 

[DrZeke]

The average applicant when I applied in 2012, applied to ~60 programs.

 

[OPPforlife]

Applying to programs is a whacky business. Obviously the very competitive candidates can be choosy, but most of us apply broadly (broad region wise and reputation wise). That being said one of my classmates matched at a well known top 5 program and no joke this guy applied to ALL programs.


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[Rhexis]

I applied to ~ 30, interviewed at 10. Best way to figure out where to apply is to talk to residents about where they liked when they interviewed. You can search threads on here too, but sometimes people have ulterior motives when anonymously bashing programs or praising others. And, programs change over time, but reputations lag years behind. Just because you hear crappy things about a program doesn't mean it hasn't recently changed, and vice versa. Talk to people that already went through the interview process, it helps and most of us are willing to give our two cents.

 

[DrZeke]

I agree with Rhexis. One program that's good for someone may not be good for someone else. For example, I don't mind being pimped, but some people flip out. I personally feel it motivates me to work harder. Other people feel it's horrible and degrading. Some people freak out if they are up all night. Some people don't like medical hierarchy and separation between attendings and residents.

Basically everyone has their own idea of what works for them and what they can tolerate. So, listen to people but try and feel it out for yourself.

 

[docta9]

Everyone is nervous so they apply to a lot of programs but I think if you applying to only a bunch, say 30-40, you will be ok. 10 is way too few but I don't think applying to all helps. Programs can tell if you apply to all, especially the programs lower in the alphabet. If one has a stellar record, they can apply to good programs and average programs. If one's record is less than stellar, they can include some weaker programs to their list.

The reason I think that applying to all programs doesn't help is because if you apply to 70 programs, it's unlikely that you will be hated at all the programs except one. More likely, several program will like you.

When interviewing, the worse program will claim they are the best but the best programs don't make that claim. Actually, if one is cynical, most programs are in a race for worse program! There are so many programs with flaws, even the big name ones. It's just that some program have more flaws. The ideal training would be if ophthalmology were 4 years, not 3, and there was an exchange program where you went to another residency program for year 3.

 

[Descemetfolds]

Unless you have top, top credentials (and even then), I would apply to more programs. Only my 2 cents, but when applying to a competitive field like Ophtho where people with Step 1 scores of 250+ don't match every year, now's not the time to save money. Here's how I look at it. You've already spent upwards of $200,000 on medical school. Why be frugal when the outcome of the match will have great implications on the rest of your career? Again, just my opinion.

Also, when I applied, there were several regional programs that I expected to be interviewed at that interviewed me. There were also several regional programs that I thought would interview me that didn't. On the contrary, I also got interviews from regions that were completely random! I'm a New Yorker, and I never would have guessed places in Kansas, Arizona, Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, or Florida, would interview me.

 

[DrZeke]

Unless you have top, top credentials (and even then), I would apply to more programs. Only my 2 cents, but when applying to a competitive field like Ophtho where people with Step 1 scores of 250+ don't match every year, now's not the time to save money. Here's how I look at it. You've already spent upwards of $200,000 on medical school. Why be frugal when the outcome of the match will have great implications on the rest of your career? Again, just my opinion.

Also, when I applied, there were several regional programs that I expected to be interviewed at that interviewed me. There were also several regional programs that I thought would interview me that didn't. On the contrary, I also got interviews from regions that were completely random! I'm a New Yorker, and I never would have guessed places in Kansas, Arizona, Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, or Florida, would interview me.

Agree completely. I know people who applied to 30 programs and selected those places based on what they thought would happen. They had way fewer interviews than anticipated. They matched, but I thought they might have matched better had they broadened horizons a bit....

 

[Cornbread]

Agree with the above two posts. The competitive nature of the field has led to an inevitable "inflation" in the number of programs folks apply to each year. It's unfortunate, because a program will recieve a flood of applications from all over the country, many from applicants who just "checked a box" and have no sincere or vested interest in that particular program (myself included). These drown out the applications from folks with a sincere interest in that program. As I interviewed last year, I ran across numerous program directors who voiced their frustrations about sifting through hundreds of applications, not knowing who was highly interested vs. moderately interested. And of course, I had lots of conversations with applicants disgruntled with having to just fill the "quota" and apply to sixty spots, spending lots of $$. I honestly think the best fix to all this would be to limit every applicant to say, 30 programs. You would choose carefully.

That being said, that isn't the case. You just have to play the game. I suggest a minimum of sixty. If you think your application is a little weak, have a low threshold for jumping up to the 80 or 90 mark. I applied to 65 or so, and got 13 or 14 invites. I think I was an average to above average candidate.

How did I choose my 65?

1. After extensive online research + talking to my PD and residents, I first eliminated all programs that seemingly across the board had a bad rep. These were programs that maybe had consistently lost residents, were malignant, were on probation. SDNers and matchapplicants.com consistently didn't speek highly of some. I maybe crossed off 10 or so programs this way.

2. I eliminated programs in cities or regions my wife and I absolutely did not want to live.

3. I eliminated all two-resident programs.

That got me down to 65 or so.

Best of luck!

 

[docta9]

duplicate

 

[docta9]

I applied to programs in all regions of the country and got interviews in all regions. If I applied only to some regions, I think I would have also matched. It would be interesting if there were a study about how successful people who applied to 20-30 programs compared to 50-60 and 90-100 programs. My guess is that the 50-60 application applicants had the same match rate or even higher than 90-100 programs. I'm uncertain about the 20-30 application applicants because they may have special reasons why they did what they did (financial hardship, over-confidence, have extremely good targeting criteria, limited to one region but don't have a good reason to do so, limited to one region with a very good reason, etc.)

I know people who applied to 30 programs and selected those places based on what they thought would happen. They had way fewer interviews than anticipated. They matched, but I thought they might have matched better had they broadened horizons a bit....

These people didn't apply to their top choices then. I applied to all my top choices, about 3 bottom of the barrel programs and then my own medical school's program, which was low in my rank list. I interviewed at 2 bottom of the barrel programs and my own med school. If I ended up in one of the bottom of the barrel programs, I would have wondered, too, but didn't.

 

[Bronze Medal]

My experience (from talking to people) is that med students in southern medical schools (i.e. in texas, georgia, florida) tend to get the most diverse interview invites where as NE and Midwest applicants tend to get very regional invites.

Of course each applicant has a unique experience, but mine was different than you describe. I did not graduate from a Southern school. I applied all over the country and interviewed at multiple programs in each region. Speaking to other interviewees from my region, they were often surprised by the geographic diversity of their interview invites as well.

However, the Northeast and Midwest ARE rather densely packed with ophthalmology programs (as compared to say, the Rocky Mountains or the Pacific Northwest), so this may contribute to the phenomenon your describe.