Deciding where NOT to apply

[alacast]

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I've been eyeing my list of possible schools to apply to, and I've discovered a problem. It's huge. While the rule of thumb around here for a solid number of schools has been around 12, my list is 19*, and that's made up almost entirely of tier 1, USNews Top 25 schools.

I don't necessarily have a problem applying to all these places, even with secondary essays, because I enjoy writing and will probably get rejected by most of them before interview season, anyway. The problem is money. I was prepared to fork over $718 dollars for the primaries, but then I realized that secondaries have fees, too. Oh bugger. I'm really reticent to double or triple my bill. And if a sizable portion did want to interview me, that'd also be costly.

So how do I pare down this list of schools? I will readily admit that I'm particularly drawn to only a fraction of these schools. However, once you start adding in schools just to improve your odds, it's hard to stop I've already considered whether or not I would be happy living in various geographies, and whether I would be happy going to various schools if they were my only option.



*Part of the reason it got this large was from seeing a friend of mine apply last year. 41 MCAT, great GPA, maybe crummy personal statements, the guy who'd have written his LOR died. Applied to 16 schools, was interviewed at half, and accepted to 4 (one of which was his undergrad institution, so really 3). He inspired me to cast a wide net.

 

[InNotOf]

For what it's worth expense-wise, about 1/3 of schools reimburse your travel expenses. It also appears that most put you up, so at least you don't have to pay for lodging.

If you want any perspective, I'm applying to 22-24 schools, as 1) my stats aren't stellar, 2) I have good reasons to apply to each school, and 3) I've witnessed similar unfortunate admissions situations. I know one girl (MD only) who applied to 30 schools and was accepted to one...in April. I know another who had amazing MCAT/GPA (granted, she lacked the ECs) who applied to 15 and was admitted nowhere. She reapplied to 25-30 schools and got into two.

I'd rather spend some $$$ and be admitted the first time around.

Sorry, I'm not helping. 🙂 But it's stuff to consider.

 

[StIGMA]

Check MD apps for people with similar stats. Additionally, if you are in 2/3 or 3/3 of the 'excellents' in the stickied "what are my chances" thread, you will likely get accepted to more than one school even if you only apply to ~10 top 20 schools. I narrowed down my list (similar to yours, mostly top 25 US news) by crossing off schools based on location, which you stated you have already done. I nixed UCLA, pitt, U of Wash, UVa, CWRU, all texas schools ... but this is very personal. You do not really know a place until you have been there, so this is not the best method. In the end you are just looking to cut down low-yield (comparative chance of you interviewing or matriculating) programs. If you know your research interests, cut down schools based on this criteria (although this may not cut very many top 20 schools).

Other possible criteria... average length of the program (ie: blank program I was accepted to and declined actively discouraged MD/PhD's taking under 8 years), although you would have to find current students to get the directors opinion or otherwise obtain empirical evidence. Consider size of student body (if you dont want a very large MD/PhD program, which shouldn't really matter, dont apply to WashU/Upenn, if you dont want a smaller med school, dont apply to Stanford/Mayo) etc. & consider the atmosphere of the program, which may parallel the town, ie: New York city vs Nasheville - the student body adapts to the culture. Perhaps try saying in a mirror or to friends "I am an MD/PhD student at X." Could you see yourself in their program?

Advice during the interview season... do not go to your MD only interviews if you know you will go to one of your MD/PhD interviewed schools over the MD only program. This was a complete waste of money for me.

That was very jumbled. Hope something there was helpful.

 

[InNotOf]

Check MD apps for people with similar stats. Additionally, if you are in 2/3 or 3/3 of the 'excellents' in the stickied "what are my chances" thread, you will likely get accepted to more than one school even if you only apply to ~10 top 20 schools. I narrowed down my list (similar to yours, mostly top 25 US news) by crossing off schools based on location, which you stated you have already done. I nixed UCLA, pitt, U of Wash, UVa, CWRU, all texas schools ... but this is very personal. You do not really know a place until you have been there, so this is not the best method. In the end you are just looking to cut down low-yield (comparative chance of you interviewing or matriculating) programs. If you know your research interests, cut down schools based on this criteria (although this may not cut very many top 20 schools).

Other possible criteria... average length of the program (ie: blank program I was accepted to and declined actively discouraged MD/PhD's taking under 8 years), although you would have to find current students to get the directors opinion or otherwise obtain empirical evidence. Consider size of student body (if you dont want a very large MD/PhD program, which shouldn't really matter, dont apply to WashU/Upenn, if you dont want a smaller med school, dont apply to Stanford/Mayo) etc. & consider the atmosphere of the program, which may parallel the town, ie: New York city vs Nasheville - the student body adapts to the culture. Perhaps try saying in a mirror or to friends "I am an MD/PhD student at X." Could you see yourself in their program?

Advice during the interview season... do not go to your MD only interviews if you know you will go to one of your MD/PhD interviewed schools over the MD only program. This was a complete waste of money for me.

That was very jumbled. Hope something there was helpful.

By the same token, don't nix a particular program at this stage if based on geography, program size, etc, unless these are major dealbreakers. Better to have options!

 

[alacast]

Thanks, folks! This is helping gain some perspective.

One other mechanism by which I could throw out schools is whether the MD program acts as a "gatekeeper" to the MSTP. I think I make a much better MSTP candidate than an MD candidate, so my odds of getting into these gatekeeper schools is lower. Does anyone know which schools have the Med School act as a gatekeeper?


One comic, though annoying element of trying to narrow down schools by geography and research area is that a few schools which have excellent research in my field are 1. In geographic areas I'm lukewarm about 2. have MD gatekeepers. So I still feel that I should apply, but I wouldn't mind not getting in. 😀

 

[itsallthesame]

Do not build your application around case studies. Had that person who applied to 30 schools only applied to one, and it happened to be the one that admitted him/her... the story would have been totally different.

Only 4 top md/phd acceptances is not a failure in an admission cycle. It's awesome. If you really have time to go on that many more interviews/revisits (that 8/4)... what the heck are you doing with your year? Either you're doing something that won't be looked upon well or you're going to get fired.

You need to realistically asses a few things for yourself:
- What is the expected cost of applying to X programs?
- Are you so absolutely set on going to one of X programs that you'd risk taking a year off to reapply if you don't get in the first time?
-What are you going to be doing in the next year to make your application THAT much better?
- How willing are you to run up the credit card a bit for applications? Remember, most/many of us had to do this, it's part of the process.

Remember... applying broadly =/= applying to a ton of schools. You can apply broadly with 8-15 applications. 4 schools you'd kill to go to, 7 that you are about average stats wise, and 4 that, on paper you should be a lock for. Pick the top schools in each category as best you can by reading about them, checking out their research and thinking about location.

 

[orrghead16]

2. have MD gatekeepers.

Could you elaborate more on which ones? Or how you found out which programs are kept in check by MD-side?

I am in much the same place. I make a much better MSTP applicant rather than an MD. At MD, I would probably be average at best because of my lack of clinical stuff.

 

[alacast]

They're WUSTL and Chicago, both of which have MD gatekeepers, I think. Can anyone confirm/disconfirm this?

I totally hear you about the lack of clinical experience. I've managed to cram in ~40 hours of volunteering at a free clinic in the past month or two. It's actually been really enlightening! Don't just do volunteering/shadowing to fill a check box, kids!

 

[dmblue]

They're WUSTL and Chicago, both of which have MD gatekeepers, I think. Can anyone confirm/disconfirm this?

I totally hear you about the lack of clinical experience. I've managed to cram in ~40 hours of volunteering at a free clinic in the past month or two. It's actually been really enlightening! Don't just do volunteering/shadowing to fill a check box, kids!

WUSTL?? I don't think so.

If you don't get into the med school but get into the MSTP, the MSTP at WashU can override it because they have a ton of money.

U of C, i don't know.

 

[NiCad089]

WUSTL?? I don't think so.

If you don't get into the med school but get into the MSTP, the MSTP at WashU can override it because they have a ton of money.

U of C, i don't know.

Not true. I know someone who was accepted MSTP and rejected MD.

 

[not respect]

does that mean applying to wustl md/phd will not hurt your chances of md-only admission?

 

[dmblue]

Not true. I know someone who was accepted MSTP and rejected MD.

I said CAN, it's not gauranteed

this is what the director told me