Decisions -

[lilies05]

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If you got into a top "ranked" clinical phD program (California state school w/with a prominent POI) and into a lower "ranked" clinical phD program (small school in DC with a not-so-prominent POI) but know you'd be socially/personally MUCH happier at the lower ranked school - what should you do?

what if your goal is mostly clinical work (with some research)? - if your goals are primarily to be a clinician - does the name of the school/POI over your training matter?

please help ! 😱

 

[suerte]

I'm also interested in hearing people's thoughts on this!


Additionally, any thoughts about how to choose between the following---
a lower ranked school with a prominent POI vs. a higher ranked school with a brand new POI (but who seems to be up and coming, very productive, ambitious, TONS of grants, etc)

Both are fully funded clinical PhDs and the research match with the POIs is nearly equal (though with a slightly better match for the more prominent POI). By lower ranked, I mean lower internship match rates (70-80% on match day vs. 100%), newer and not as established, less of a national reputation, less respected, and slightly lower stipend.

My question is (& probably lilies05's question too): are we potentially hindering our future careers by not going to these prestigious schools?

 

[suerte]

If you got into a top "ranked" clinical phD program (California state school w/with a prominent POI) and into a lower "ranked" clinical phD program (small school in DC with a not-so-prominent POI) but know you'd be socially/personally MUCH happier at the lower ranked school - what should you do?

what if your goal is mostly clinical work (with some research)? - if your goals are primarily to be a clinician - does the name of the school/POI over your training matter?

please help ! 😱

Keep in mind that you'll probably be MUCH more productive and successful if you're happy! Both as a researcher and a clinician.
If you're not enjoying life at the top ranked school, you're not going to be accomplishing as much.

best of luck! 🙂

 

[Ollie123]

My thoughts can basically be summarized as "Go where you think you'll be the most productive". Academic pedigree matters, but productivity matters more. The bias towards "big name" schools mostly comes from the fact that it is easier to be productive when you are surrounded by large-scale grant-funded projects, faculty who do great work and can really tear your stuff apart, and other such opportunities. Someone graduating from Yale with 2 posters and zero publications is still hopeless on the job market.

 

[lilies05]

My question is (& probably lilies05's question too): are we potentially hindering our future careers by not going to these prestigious schools?

yes! and for me, as i think i will end up in clinical work, does it matter at all b/c publications/research productivity isn't important. but will people hiring me still think the #1 ranked school and famous POI is more appealing than a lesser known school?

 

[Aggieanthony]

but will people hiring me still think the #1 ranked school and famous POI is more appealing than a lesser known school?

This most likely will depend upon what "people" are hiring you, but I can't see how a NUMBER ONE ranked program with a famous POI could ever possibly hinder you, even if you needed an adjustment period being away from home or whatnot.

You truly owe it to yourself to attend the more well-known school. The beauty of human beings is that we are infinitely adaptable, and you will forever look back at your shot at being in the #1 ranked program and wonder, "How much better could my career have been if I'd gone to X school?"

Carefully examine why you'd be happier with the smaller, less prestigious school before you choose. Is it simply because you don't think prestige should/will matter?

Graduate school, particularly a Ph.D. program and even moreso a very good Ph.D. program requires sacrifice. This is true, most likely, of even your closer, smaller program. So why possibly cheapen your experience with deference only to familiarity, if that's the case?

I can see no clear reason, barring extinuating circumstances which tie you to your current geographic location, why you shouldn't choose the well-known school with the famous POI.

 

[cara susanna]

Which one did you like better? I'm assuming that you visited both. Yes, prestige is good, but you need to be happy--you're spending 5+ years of your life there.

 

[psykate09]

Be forewarned, this is coming from a girl who turned down Notre Dame for undergrad for a smaller private school, partially for money, but partially because the small private school felt better.

I think you have to ask yourself what is more important to you. Some people want to be frontrunning researchers in their field, while others want to run a community mental health center for little glory or pay. And I think you really have to listen to yourself; don't chose the more prestigious school just because other people expect you to. After turning down Notre Dame, I can honestly say I have no regrets going to a less "name brand" college, but I've never had name brand, prestige seeking aspirations.

If going to a school you feel less comfortable with is worth you having a potentially better publishing/research career, maybe its best to suck it up for 4 years and go there. It's up to you to decide, but maybe you are better off not asking other people's advice at this point. Because this is a decision you need to turn inward to find the answers for.

 

[helga]

Im in a somewhat similar situation but without the definite leaning towards clinical work-
in my situation the more research focused program with a prestigous poi is contrasted with a more balanced program with an amazing less prestigous but more available mentor

The more research focused program will be more demanding but I will graduate having worked with a leader in the field
I only spent 1 day at the research focused program while
I know I will definitey fit in socially at the more balanced program

If I'm still considering a research career is it crazy to pass up the opportunity to work with a super accomplished researcher in the field? Or is the more balanced program a better idea in case I become more clinically oriented?
I feel like I'm talking in circles! Ahh

 

[GoodyGood]

I am still in the application phase, so I don't have any first-hand experience, but I talked with some people at my last interview and their perspective made some sense. I would be glad to have some input from some people who have been through the process (e.g., post-docs or internships).

They said that if you go someplace that is less prestigous and/or with a less prestigous POI at which you will be happier and still receive top knotch clinical and research training, it won't matter so much as long as you then get a prestigous internship and/or post-doc position. I took this to mean that as long as you are publishing your ass off and logging tons of clinical hours, people are going to look at that when they are interviewing you for those internships and post-docs. After that, they will look at where and with whom you worked at internship/post-doc. After all, it is a training program. You are not expected to do ground-breaking work necessarily.

I hope I made sense, and I hope someone can comment as to the veracity of that idea.

 

[cara susanna]

Yeah, and you can look at internship match rates at each school, as well. That's a good factor to consider, IMO.

 

[psychnic]

Another factor to consider--a younger POI may have more time to spend nurturing your skills/career than an extremely well-known, busy researcher. Going to a prestigious university and being neglected or viewed as a cog in a research machine may not be more advantageous! Ultimately, though, you should go where you'll be happiest (professionally AND personally).

 

[dd123]

AggieAnthony wrote: You truly owe it to yourself to attend the more well-known school. The beauty of human beings is that we are infinitely adaptable, and you will forever look back at your shot at being in the #1 ranked program and wonder, "How much better could my career have been if I'd gone to X school?"

Another way to look at it:
You truly owe it to yourself to attend the more school where you'll be happiest. The beauty of human beings is our capacity to thrive when happy, and you will forever look back at your shot at being in a program that would have made you happier and wonder, "How much better could my career have been if I'd gone to X school?"

Just pointing out the implicit assumptions that may have been nested in AA's post.

 

[Aggieanthony]

AggieAnthony wrote: You truly owe it to yourself to attend the more well-known school. The beauty of human beings is that we are infinitely adaptable, and you will forever look back at your shot at being in the #1 ranked program and wonder, "How much better could my career have been if I'd gone to X school?"

Another way to look at it:
You truly owe it to yourself to attend the more school where you'll be happiest. The beauty of human beings is our capacity to thrive when happy, and you will forever look back at your shot at being in a program that would have made you happier and wonder, "How much better could my career have been if I'd gone to X school?"

Just pointing out the implicit assumptions that may have been nested in AA's post.

Your version is quite appropriate as well, =]


OP requested advice regarding a decision, and pulling from my anecdotal life experience (Both my own personal life experience and those of colleagues) and suggested a path.

I apologize for making my opinion seem like I was making an argument like this:

"Because prestige is important, not going to the most prestigious school will cause you regret later in your life."

The implicit assumption is that pursuing a decision is necessarily a cause for regret/genuflection in the future, while the stated assumption is that prestige is important, and therefore OP should pursue the more prestigious solution.

I definitely could've been much more careful in my wording of my opinion, no doubt, and I should've emphasized the anecdotal nature of it. It is my mistake to assume that everything on an internet message board is based on opinion rather than fact unless otherwise noted.

I wasn't aware I needed to write as if I was first-lining an article in the APA monthly, but I do acknowledge my error in presenting anecdotal experience/conjecture as an implicit assumption of what's important to the OP.

 

[Cosmo75]

My gut reaction is to go where you feel it is a better fit for you. If you think the smaller school will be best, then go for it. I agree to really evaluate why you prefer one over the other. Do a list of pros and cons for each school and see if your feeling sticks.

While prestige is important, I don't see going to the less prestigious school as shooting yourself in the foot. This is my personal opinion of course, as someone who chose a professional school PsyD over a PhD program. Grant it the PhD program wasn't Yale or anything, but I'd be in a lot less debt and wouldn't have to deal with the professional school bias that some people hold 🙂 I doubt, however, that I would be as well connected as I am for what I want to do if I went to the other school. I certainly wouldn't be as happy. Much of grad school is what you make of it. Having a prestigious program would lay a certain foundation for you, but as others have said it's what you do while you're in school that counts.