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DarkHorizon

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Hey Folks - So I reached out to a bunch of DOs recently regarding shadowing opportunities. I have some clinical experience, but no shadowing and no DO experience or LOR. As you guys and gals know, opportunities are limited right now due to COVID. I got a response from one DO. They are a clinical professor and take several 3rd and 4th year students from a handful of med schools for rotations/experience. Understandably they are paid by the schools for this. Since I'd be taking away one of those spots, they are asking I pay a small(ish) fee. Approx $200 for the week of shadowing. They said I'd be able to get a LOR out of it, which is something I do need. Would you do it? Was planning on applying this cycle, but I think I will be moving back to next year.

where is this and who is this guy? This ispretty outrageous.
 
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DrStephennmnm

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where is this and who is this guy? This ispretty outrageous.
How? OP would be taking a spot from a medical student which the doctor would get paid X amount of dollars for... it's literally the same situation as taking someone's room for rent and having to pay the landlord for that room.... Kinda flabbergasted by everyone who's judging the doc.

If OP doesn't want to pay for shadowing (which I agree sucks), then fine, he can find another physician. But clearly OP doesn't have that option. So besides saying "wow OP, that sucks, but you need shadowing on your app...", I don't think people should be bashing the practice this badly
 
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FrkyBgStok

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How? OP would be taking a spot from a medical student which the doctor would get paid X amount of dollars for... it's literally the same situation as taking someone's room for rent and having to pay the landlord for that room.... Kinda flabbergasted by everyone who's judging the doc.

If OP doesn't want to pay for shadowing (which I agree sucks), then fine, he can find another physician. But clearly OP doesn't have that option. So besides saying "wow OP, that sucks, but you need shadowing on your app...", I don't think people should be bashing the practice this badly

as a premed, you don't understand the process and why this is super crappy. so let me enlighten you.

Nobody takes medical students for a week. In addition, medical students are scheduled for rotations months in advance. And for a pre-med to get preference over a medical student, the school would probably come down on them. Also, in my experience, I have never ever seen someone get paid from the schools in this manner. If you are faculty of the med school, you may get paid a salary, but I have never heard of a physician's money from a school being contingent on the presence of a medical student. the vast majority of the time, the physician gets CME for teaching. It is usually good CME and taking a few medical students per year can cover your CME for a 5 year board cycle. most people teach because of a desire and a duty, not because of money.

for a physician to say "you can shadow for $200 and you get a LOR" spits in the face of anyone along the teaching path who takes medical learners. I don't know how exactly the person is getting paid, but I would bet it isn't for each medical student that comes. so you are flabbergasted by us all judging the doctor but, as a doctor, I see it as this guy exploiting desperate pre-meds for the sole purpose of lining his own pockets. F*** that guy.
 
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DrStephennmnm

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as a premed, you don't understand the process and why this is super crappy. so let me enlighten you.

Nobody takes medical students for a week. In addition, medical students are scheduled for rotations months in advance. And for a pre-med to get preference over a medical student, the school would probably come down on them. Also, in my experience, I have never ever seen someone get paid from the schools in this manner. If you are faculty of the med school, you may get paid a salary, but I have never heard of a physician's money from a school being contingent on the presence of a medical student. the vast majority of the time, the physician gets CME for teaching. It is usually good CME and taking a few medical students per year can cover your CME for a 5 year board cycle. most people teach because of a desire and a duty, not because of money.

for a physician to say "you can shadow for $200 and you get a LOR" spits in the face of anyone along the teaching path who takes medical learners. I don't know how exactly the person is getting paid, but I would bet it isn't for each medical student that comes. so you are flabbergasted by us all judging the doctor but, as a doctor, I see it as this guy exploiting desperate pre-meds for the sole purpose of lining his own pockets. F*** that guy.
You should offer op to shadow you then
 
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DrStephennmnm

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Already offered and would gladly take anyone in my area. It’s too bad OP is located in another part of the country. It’s a privilege to mentor rising studs.
That genuinely makes me happy to hear, thank you. Unfortunately not all docs think that way, and I believe it's better to have a service and pay for it (which completely sucks don't get me wrong) than to not have it at all in that area. I'm not saying what the doctor is doing is necessarily right, but at the same time he's not forcing OP to shadow him either... So it's completely up to OP
 

scoopdaboop

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First of all never pay to shadow. Also, you really don't need shadowing experience for DO schools. I had several interviews and the only experience I had was being a scribe. I started scribing right after my MCAT during my gap year, and as I applied I accumulated more and more hours. I don't think schools really have a distinction between the two, even though in reality, there is a pretty big one.
 

Led man123

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Apr 16, 2020
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Thanks all, I’m just going to keep looking for other opportunities. I’m looking for shadowing more for the LOR opportunity than anything else. My volunteer gigs don’t have a ton of doctor contact and my scribing experience was over 5 years ago, so I’m not really comfortable getting the LOR from there. Without it the schools I can apply to are pretty limited.
 

scoopdaboop

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Thanks all, I’m just going to keep looking for other opportunities. I’m looking for shadowing more for the LOR opportunity than anything else. My volunteer gigs don’t have a ton of doctor contact and my scribing experience was over 5 years ago, so I’m not really comfortable getting the LOR from there. Without it the schools I can apply to are pretty limited.

Try to start scribing again... you'll get letters of rec pretty easily, and in the mean time if you're in a time crunch definetly start calling offices to shadow as well.
 

Isoval

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First of all never pay to shadow. Also, you really don't need shadowing experience for DO schools. I had several interviews and the only experience I had was being a scribe. I started scribing right after my MCAT during my gap year, and as I applied I accumulated more and more hours. I don't think schools really have a distinction between the two, even though in reality, there is a pretty big one.

I received 3 interviews of the 8 MD schools to which I applied and had no shadowing experience since high school.

This is the exception, not the rule, for both MD and DO schools. It should always be a recommendation to have shadowing experience.
 

scoopdaboop

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I received 3 interviews of the 8 MD schools to which I applied and had no shadowing experience since high school.

This is the exception, not the rule, for both MD and DO schools. It should always be a recommendation to have shadowing experience.
I think if you have experience working with physicians in some capacity then it makes up for lack of shadowing. For example, I don’t think being a CNA would qualify in place or shadowing.
 
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AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson

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That genuinely makes me happy to hear, thank you. Unfortunately not all docs think that way, and I believe it's better to have a service and pay for it (which completely sucks don't get me wrong) than to not have it at all in that area. I'm not saying what the doctor is doing is necessarily right, but at the same time he's not forcing OP to shadow him either... So it's completely up to OP

Having a service to pay for makes the problem of the medical path being expensive even worse. Its unacceptable to charge someone for shadowing + LOR, it's utter nonsense. And honestly since it's essentially paying for a LOR (by the wording OP gave) it seems just plain unethical. Not saying people dont do unethical things during this process... they sure do heh

People with physician families and/or money already get a leg up throughout this process, dont need to add another thing to that.
 
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D

deleted480308

Hey Folks - So I reached out to a bunch of DOs recently regarding shadowing opportunities. I have some clinical experience, but no shadowing and no DO experience or LOR. As you guys and gals know, opportunities are limited right now due to COVID. I got a response from one DO. They are a clinical professor and take several 3rd and 4th year students from a handful of med schools for rotations/experience. Understandably they are paid by the schools for this. Since I'd be taking away one of those spots, they are asking I pay a small(ish) fee. Approx $200 for the week of shadowing. They said I'd be able to get a LOR out of it, which is something I do need. Would you do it? Was planning on applying this cycle, but I think I will be moving back to next year.
Call a residency or a school for help connecting
 
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