deleted

[jbomba]

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I’m confused does this mean that you’ll spend 14k of your remaining 17k on a house? Then live off of 3k for everything else?

There is 31k a month. 14 goes towards a house. 17 is left over.

 

[forchinet121]

There is 31k a month. 14 goes towards a house. 17 is left over.

So no retirement?

 

[psychmd03]

When your income is $250k, there is a huge difference between a cost of $2 million and of $3 million. The median home price in the city of San Francisco itself is $1.3 million and $1.1 million in LA. I'm not saying either is cheap. I'm saying $3 million is too much to pay for a house in either for one physician income. If there are two physicians or some tech millionaire involved or an investment banker, then it might not be.

You should move if you can only pull 250 in SF or LA

 

[psychmd03]

I am still living in the same rental I moved into as an intern. Listen, I don't really need advice on how to manage money, I am plenty frugal and hopefully on the path to FIRE. I am not saying that newly minted attendings need to buy an expensive house - or any house - right away. Or that attendings at any stage in their career require an extravagant multi-million dollar home. I am simply responding to the comments stating that it is absolutely possible to buy a cheap house, and going for expensive ones is an unnecessary luxury. In some parts of the country it is not.

Someone renting for $1000 doesn't really likely have the knowledge of HCOL and VHCOL areas.

Just to contrast your point I pay 3x of your rent and moved there as a resident moonlighting. I paid my loans off under a year out of residency. And by year 5 out of residency, I will probably hit FI. I don't understand the people that glorify the idea of "living like a resident" as the way to do things. You can easily live much better and still hit FI relatively quickly.

 

[jbomba]

So no retirement?

As I mentioned in the original post, the 31k is after maxing out 401k. After paying for housing and having 17k left over, I'd imagine one could find a way to save another 5-7k a month without much trouble. So you'd be putting away 100+ a year. You also have an appreciating asset in a 2-3m house that you've got significant leverage in.

 

[Splenda88]

Cost is certainly one issue depending on geographics. Total floor space/square footage is another altogether and has to take into account your actual family size. I cant understand the want for abnormally large homes unless you have a large family?

Round here, you can get really high quality 5 bedroom 3 bath stuff with yard/land in a nice area and a possible country club membership to boot all for less than 1.2 mil or so.

I am always fascinated when I see a family of 4 has a 3000+ sqft home.

We are a family of 4 and our ~2000 sqft home of 4BR/2BA with a 420 sqft 2-car garage looks empty.

I wonder what do people furnish these big homes with.

I live in a LCOL area and I was approved to buy something for 1.2 mil based on my income etc... I purchased a new built for 280k. My mortgage payment is akin to a luxury car payment.

No one should buy a home that is more than twice of their income. Doing that is asking for trouble.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I am always fascinated when I see a family of 4 has a 3000+ sqft home.

We are a family of 4 and our ~2000 sqft home of 4BR/2BA with a 420 sqft 2-car garage looks empty.

I wonder what do people furnish these big homes with.

I live in a LCOL area and I was approved to buy something for 1.2 mil based on my income etc... I purchased a new built for 280k. My mortgage payment is akin to a luxury car payment.

No one should buy a home that is more than twice of their income. Doing that is asking for trouble.

Home gym, theatre room, hobby room, kids play area. I’m in a LCOL area, so I paid about the same as you for 3600 sq ft. If interest rates weren’t so low on it, I could have bought it in cash from 1 year of savings. If prices were much higher, I wouldn’t have purchased that big.

 

[caligas]

There is one place in my area that pays 700k for locums at 40 hours per week. How stable are these jobs long-term? Could someone work these jobs for say 2-3 years straight? Or would you be replaced within months forcing you to find a new job?

Would a physician working this job be able to purchase a $3 million house without losing sleep at night?

Why a $3 million house?

 

[finalpsychyear]

Someone renting for $1000 doesn't really likely have the knowledge of HCOL and VHCOL areas.

Just to contrast your point I pay 3x of your rent and moved there as a resident moonlighting. I paid my loans off under a year out of residency. And by year 5 out of residency, I will probably hit FI. I don't understand the people that glorify the idea of "living like a resident" as the way to do things. You can easily live much better and still hit FI relatively quickly.

Everyone has a different definition of FI. Most commonly its 25x for starters or 2.5m in liquid investments. If your trying to get there in 5 years vs 10 years also matters. Loans, kids and being in HCOL vs LCOL all obviously effect this.

If your on track to hit these type of numbers at the end of year 5 obviously market will play a pretty big role. Assuming your putting away 250k per year and getting 7%. You end up at 1.5m end of year 5 so maybe your goal is closer to this number for FI? Even then, this will require at least a 500k salary. Good for you if you are above this but it's definitely not anywhere normal for 99% to have that and to put away that much.

 

[sloh]

You should move if you can only pull 250 in SF or LA

QFT. 400-500k minimum

 

[finalpsychyear]

I am always fascinated when I see a family of 4 has a 3000+ sqft home.

We are a family of 4 and our ~2000 sqft home of 4BR/2BA with a 420 sqft 2-car garage looks empty.

I wonder what do people furnish these big homes with.

I live in a LCOL area and I was approved to buy something for 1.2 mil based on my income etc... I purchased a new built for 280k. My mortgage payment is akin to a luxury car payment.

No one should buy a home that is more than twice of their income. Doing that is asking for trouble.

Yeah. I had a 2000 sq foot condo all to myself at one point. Granted i work from home 40 ish hours and another 15 ish outside of home.
The place was a 3 level split. The ground floor was a workout room with weight and cardio and was a life saver during covid. Middle floor was the living, dining and kitchen. Normally where I would be watching shows/movies/entertaining. Upstairs was 2 bedrooms. One was a dedicated office and the other was a master where i spent after 8-9pm kicking back. When you work from home you need space to move around imo and I am fidgety. Right now since i am trying to get a house and living in a 1400 sq feet place it has not been the best since i have no workout area i workout 50% less and have a spouse who may also be working from home in the next few months.

My minimum is a 4k sq feet house plus a 1500 ish finished basement which I am on the hunt for now.

 

[B52slinger]

Well in my area ~60 hours/week of psych work will get you to 700k with fairly good patient care (2 "full-time" jobs for 350k each) so maintaining that income would not be too much of an issue even if I lost the locums job, I have multiple attendings making more than that amount and none of them work all that hard.... some of them are making greater than that amount working 40 hours/week but the patient care is not good at all.

Part of the reason locums is paying so much is that unscrupulous psychiatrists here can make 700k while working less than 40 hours/week here so there is no reason for them to risk working in a correctional setting for that income. We had an attending in intern year who residents are no longer allowed to work with because he was spending 2 minutes per patient to achieve this hourly rate (only let residents see 1-2 patients with him to prevent slowing down too much) and we were not learning ANYTHING from him other than how to maximize your W2....

Regardless, after reviewing the replies here I will probably hold off for at least a couple years on making such a purchase.

 

[Trismegistus4]

Anyone else disappointed this thread quickly became entirely about the cost of living in the coastal cities of California?

I realize the OP brought up buying an expensive house, but I thought that was just an example of something that would be risky unless the income he's talking about is stable over many years.

I personally find the nature of high-paying locums work a much more interesting topic for discussion than how much a house costs in LA or SF.

 

[Doctorows]

Someone renting for $1000 doesn't really likely have the knowledge of HCOL and VHCOL areas.

Just to contrast your point I pay 3x of your rent and moved there as a resident moonlighting. I paid my loans off under a year out of residency. And by year 5 out of residency, I will probably hit FI. I don't understand the people that glorify the idea of "living like a resident" as the way to do things. You can easily live much better and still hit FI relatively quickly.

Not sure if you meant to quote my post - I don't pay $1000 rent. I wish. Around here, a newer apartment complex in a safe area asks $6000 rent for a 1500 sqft 3br apartment. I choose to pay less because I don't want to shell out that much for a cookie cutter rental when I can save up and buy a place I actually like that's my own. I don't disagree with your post.

 

[Doctorows]

I am always fascinated when I see a family of 4 has a 3000+ sqft home.

We are a family of 4 and our ~2000 sqft home of 4BR/2BA with a 420 sqft 2-car garage looks empty.

I wonder what do people furnish these big homes with.

I live in a LCOL area and I was approved to buy something for 1.2 mil based on my income etc... I purchased a new built for 280k. My mortgage payment is akin to a luxury car payment.

No one should buy a home that is more than twice of their income. Doing that is asking for trouble.

I totally agree that people generally should aim for that, but unless you're working 3 full-time jobs or jail locums or whatnot, it is simply not possible in some areas. You cannot find a new built of that size around here for under a million, unless it's in a really bad or remote area. To buy your house here I'd have to pay at least 5 times what you paid, if not more.

 

[Monocles]

There is one place in my area that pays 700k for locums at 40 hours per week. How stable are these jobs long-term? Could someone work these jobs for say 2-3 years straight? Or would you be replaced within months forcing you to find a new job?

Would a physician working this job be able to purchase a $3 million house without losing sleep at night?

Yeah... oh my god don't do this lol. Even in the days of 2-3% interest rates, buying a $3 million home is signing up for lifetime indentured servitude. Assuming 6% average interest in today's market, you would be paying anywhere from $18-20k a MONTH to mortgage

The alternative strategy is to live within your means so you don't HAVE to take these lousy 700k jobs. Or, work your 700k job for one year, get your 450kish post tax, spend 100k of it comfortably and invest the remaining 350k.

 

[untapped]

Are you saying 400-500k minimum in California is needed for a single person?

 

[TexasPhysician]

Anyone else disappointed this thread quickly became entirely about the cost of living in the coastal cities of California?

I realize the OP brought up buying an expensive house, but I thought that was just an example of something that would be risky unless the income he's talking about is stable over many years.

I personally find the nature of high-paying locums work a much more interesting topic for discussion than how much a house costs in LA or SF.

Problem is that it is highly likely the OP will do a lot of traveling to maintain the higher paying options. That is tough to do and maintain a large household in another city.

 

[Splenda88]

Yeah. I had a 2000 sq foot condo all to myself at one point. Granted i work from home 40 ish hours and another 15 ish outside of home.
The place was a 3 level split. The ground floor was a workout room with weight and cardio and was a life saver during covid. Middle floor was the living, dining and kitchen. Normally where I would be watching shows/movies/entertaining. Upstairs was 2 bedrooms. One was a dedicated office and the other was a master where i spent after 8-9pm kicking back. When you work from home you need space to move around imo and I am fidgety. Right now since i am trying to get a house and living in a 1400 sq feet place it has not been the best since i have no workout area i workout 50% less and have a spouse who may also be working from home in the next few months.

My minimum is a 4k sq feet house plus a 1500 ish finished basement which I am on the hunt for now.

A 4000 sqft home is close to being a mansion; I don't see any reason why a single individual would need a house that big. I guess to each its own.

Don't do it; buy a 2500 sqft.

 

[reca]

If you mean top 15 by population (assuming you mean metro area), then I can only see Detroit fitting into that price range. If you mean top 15 just by city population, maybe Jacksonville, Indy, and Columbus would be on the list. If you mean top 15 by desirability than I think no cities fit that. 4-5k sq foot new construction is just not costing under a million in 2023 in even average cost of living areas, unless you are putting new construction into rough to average neighborhoods.

This doesn't detract from you point that living in cali makes it take longer to FIRE, but you can't be expecting 4500 sq ft new construction for under a million in even reasonably desirably cities in this day and age. A million dollar house does not mean what it used to.

Do you mean within the city limits? If so, yeah, but most people in the stage of life where they're buying a million dollar house are likely looking for more of a suburban location that's family friendly. And you can definitely get 4000-5000 sq ft new construction in Dallas and Houston metro for under a million. Also Tampa. Also Research Triangle. Also Phoenix. Also Chicago.

I'd consider all of those to be "reasonably desirable" cities.

 

[deleted87051]

If you mean top 15 by population (assuming you mean metro area), then I can only see Detroit fitting into that price range. If you mean top 15 just by city population, maybe Jacksonville, Indy, and Columbus would be on the list. If you mean top 15 by desirability than I think no cities fit that. 4-5k sq foot new construction is just not costing under a million in 2023 in even average cost of living areas, unless you are putting new construction into rough to average neighborhoods.

This doesn't detract from you point that living in cali makes it take longer to FIRE, but you can't be expecting 4500 sq ft new construction for under a million in even reasonably desirably cities in this day and age. A million dollar house does not mean what it used to.

$200/SF? Maybe in 1995.

 

[deleted87051]

A 4000 sqft home is close to being a mansion; I don't see any reason why a single individual would need a house that big. I guess to each its own.

Don't do it; buy a 2500 sqft.

Maybe they love big utility bills and maintenance hassles.

 

[deleted87051]

Depends on income. 2.5M house has a PITI of 14k/month in CA. With combined family income of 600k you should bring in about 31k a month after tax and after maxing out 401k. That leaves 17k a month for everything else.

As a psychiatrist in these HCOL places, making 450 a year shouldn't be difficult. A non-medical spouse in a major CA city should be making 150k in run of the mill middle manager roles (non tech). Seems quite doable honestly.

Now if you're single, working at Kaiser making your 350k a year...then yes, its a different story.

A 2.5mil house costs a LOT more than the PITI unless you are willing to let it become a hovel. You will be very house poor if you pay $2.5mil for a house on a $600k income.

 

[deleted87051]

Few things are more psychologically and financially stressful for a relatively upper middle-class family than being "house poor." I just don't get it.

Buy under your means. I'm not sure that advice will ever change? Unless you are a somewhat experienced flipper/renovator too, I guess?

We have a lot of married couples in our anesthesia group. Together they make about $1mil/yr. Most don’t spend more than $1.5mil on their first house. Some end up in $3-5mil homes but that’s after building equity and upgrading over the years.

 

[jbomba]

A 2.5mil house costs a LOT more than the PITI unless you are willing to let it become a hovel. You will be very house poor if you pay $2.5mil for a house on a $600k income.

Why would that be?

In California a lot of 2-2.5m are under 2k sq ft and on smaller pieces of property. What about these homes is generating significant expense above PITI vs say, a 600k 4500 sqft home on a big yard in the Midwest?

 

[deleted87051]

Why would that be?

In California a lot of 2-2.5m are under 2k sq ft and on smaller pieces of property. What about these homes is generating significant expense above PITI vs say, a 600k 4500 sqft home on a big yard in the Midwest?

Kitchen updates, bathroom updates, pool, deck, spa, pool repair, plumbing repairs, sewer repairs, landscaping, gardener, tree trimmer, retaining wall repair, drainage repair, trash, water, a lot of people are currently paying $1k+/mo for utilities unless they have solar in which case they paid $30k for solar. It’s endless and everything is more expensive in a 2.5mil house because they know it’s a 2.5mil house in an expensive neighborhood. A lot out the condo buildings in town have monthly maintenance fees of $2k and that seems like a bargain.

Not saying it’s different in the Midwest. Wherever you buy a house, you need be prepared to pay a lot more than PITI.

 

[jbomba]

Kitchen updates, bathroom updates, pool, deck, spa, pool repair, plumbing repairs, sewer repairs, landscaping, gardener, tree trimmer, retaining wall repair, drainage repair, trash, water, a lot of people are currently paying $1k+/mo for utilities unless they have solar in which case they paid $30k for solar. It’s endless and everything is more expensive in a 2.5mil house because they know it’s a 2.5mil house in an expensive neighborhood. A lot out the condo buildings in town have monthly maintenance fees of $2k and that seems like a bargain.

Not saying it’s different in the Midwest. Wherever you buy a house, you need be prepared to pay a lot more than PITI.

Not to be argumentative but I just don't get some of this. When I call a plumber I get rates on the phone, he doesn't arrive at my house and increase rates because my home appraisal is higher. Utilities may vary based on home size and general location but not by appraised value. Contractor rates for a bathroom remodel aren't necessarily more expensive when done in a 2.5m home vs a 1.5m home.

I agree there's more that goes into it than PITI, but that applies to any home. I feel like what you're saying is more applicable to large homes +/- large yards that require a lot of upkeep. There are plenty of yardless, 2.5m 1200sq ft beach cottages 2 blocks from the ocean in coastal CA cities. I just don't see upkeep on those being more than a 600k 4500 SQ ft home on half an acre in Oklahoma.

 

[deleted87051]

Not to be argumentative but I just don't get some of this. When I call a plumber I get rates on the phone, he doesn't arrive at my house and increase rates because my home appraisal is higher. Utilities may vary based on home size and general location but not by appraised value. Contractor rates for a bathroom remodel aren't necessarily more expensive when done in a 2.5m home vs a 1.5m home.

I agree there's more that goes into it than PITI, but that applies to any home. I feel like what you're saying is more applicable to large homes +/- large yards that require a lot of upkeep. There are plenty of yardless, 2.5m 1200sq ft beach cottages 2 blocks from the ocean in coastal CA cities. I just don't see upkeep on those being more than a 600k 4500 SQ ft home on half an acre in Oklahoma.

I live in southern California. Just to give you real examples, in the past month I paid $2500 for tree trimming/yard cleanup after our recent rains, $1700 for high pressure sewer flush, and $900 to replace a faulty circuit board on a high end built in microwave/oven combo (it would have cost 5-6k to replace it.). This was after receiving multiple bids for each item.

Beach cottages require tons of upkeep due to the salt and moisture.

 

[jbomba]

I'm from the south bay/PV myself. So I get the high costs associated with nice homes. I just don't see those costs being inherently tied to home price. Sounds like you've got some nice stuff inside of your house, I get why it would be expensive to fix. Simply living in socal will drive up costs for maintenance, independent of home price. I'm sure those huge 600k McMansions in Oklahoma have equally nice stuff which require expensive repairs.

I don't mean to beat the dead horse any further. We're kind of saying the same thing. Thanks for your perspective.

 

[MedMusic]

Anyone else disappointed this thread quickly became entirely about the cost of living in the coastal cities of California?

I realize the OP brought up buying an expensive house, but I thought that was just an example of something that would be risky unless the income he's talking about is stable over many years.

I personally find the nature of high-paying locums work a much more interesting topic for discussion than how much a house costs in LA or SF.

Agree, I am interested in learning more about this. I've heard of some crazy jobs out in Alaska paying similar rates. Does anybody have experience working these kind of jobs? I'd be interested in working intern hours for 6 months-2 years if it meant I could pay off my loans, save up for a house (in a LCOL area haha), and catch up on retirement.

 

[reca]

Agree, I am interested in learning more about this. I've heard of some crazy jobs out in Alaska paying similar rates. Does anybody have experience working these kind of jobs? I'd be interested in working intern hours for 6 months-2 years if it meant I could pay off my loans, save up for a house (in a LCOL area haha), and catch up on retirement.

CDCR always has openings for inpatient psychiatry that pay 335/hr in one of their undesirable locations. Not unheard of for people to take a 5 x 10s position for a year or two. Comes out to 800k a year. You just have to live close to Stockton or Vacaville for that year or two.

 

[psychmd03]

Everyone has a different definition of FI. Most commonly its 25x for starters or 2.5m in liquid investments. If your trying to get there in 5 years vs 10 years also matters. Loans, kids and being in HCOL vs LCOL all obviously effect this.

If your on track to hit these type of numbers at the end of year 5 obviously market will play a pretty big role. Assuming your putting away 250k per year and getting 7%. You end up at 1.5m end of year 5 so maybe your goal is closer to this number for FI? Even then, this will require at least a 500k salary. Good for you if you are above this but it's definitely not anywhere normal for 99% to have that and to put away that much.

For me I would be shooting closer to 4-5mil to feel comfortable. And then finally slow down my work a little right now most months I only take off 2-4 days total. And every 3rd or 4th month 4-6 days. So I will hit the FI goal of 2.5 this year and cruise past. As I type this if we count equity in rental ownership I probably am past it and will complete my third year out of residency this summer. I agree it is not normal and the work schedule is not luckily it fits my life I rarely work (notes and time in hospital) more than 6 hours. And I like staying buys and my SO is quite supportive. Not having kids also for sure makes this possible.

Not sure if you meant to quote my post - I don't pay $1000 rent. I wish. Around here, a newer apartment complex in a safe area asks $6000 rent for a 1500 sqft 3br apartment. I choose to pay less because I don't want to shell out that much for a cookie cutter rental when I can save up and buy a place I actually like that's my own. I don't disagree with your post.

Dang you are right. This why doing it from my phone while walking can be dangerous. That sounds like my area as well. I got very lucky with mine I am on the edge of a bad neighborhood but close to a fantastic one that I walk over to. My landlord sucks but also seems to not be smart because they missed market rent by almost a full $1000k. I have been looing to buy but buying in the end will cost more than 1k extra a month likely more so I would rather stash the extra intro a brokerage account or slowly increase my rental exposure.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Nobody forces anybody to live in California. Living there as a physician is a terrible choice as they are paid below median and have to pay extreme taxes and col. Same goes for the northeast in many cases

 

[finalpsychyear]

For me I would be shooting closer to 4-5mil to feel comfortable. And then finally slow down my work a little right now most months I only take off 2-4 days total. And every 3rd or 4th month 4-6 days. So I will hit the FI goal of 2.5 this year and cruise past. As I type this if we count equity in rental ownership I probably am past it and will complete my third year out of residency this summer. I agree it is not normal and the work schedule is not luckily it fits my life I rarely work (notes and time in hospital) more than 6 hours. And I like staying buys and my SO is quite supportive. Not having kids also for sure makes this possible.

Dang you are right. This why doing it from my phone while walking can be dangerous. That sounds like my area as well. I got very lucky with mine I am on the edge of a bad neighborhood but close to a fantastic one that I walk over to. My landlord sucks but also seems to not be smart because they missed market rent by almost a full $1000k. I have been looing to buy but buying in the end will cost more than 1k extra a month likely more so I would rather stash the extra intro a brokerage account or slowly increase my rental exposure.

What was your NW at time 0 which was july 2020 prior to starting as an attending ?
Average yearly spending in this time frame?
Avg returns in whatever you invest in this timeframe?

Regardless, hats off. Like if you have reached this primarily through grind then wow that is next level. Maybe you can do a post for White coat Investor. This may be some type of record unless you got a 10x by investing in spec assets. 4-5m is a no brainer by end of year 5 if you went from minimal NW to 2.5+ in 3 years.

 

[Splenda88]

2 scenario:

Assuming both psychiatrists start working at 30.

Psychiatrist 1:
Work 50 hrs/wk (5 days) as a psychiatrist for 7 yrs for a salary of 450k/yr and save/invest 200k for 7 yrs and then semi retire [work 22 hrs(3 days)/wk ..salary 200k/yr] at 37 and fully retire at 55. While working part time (38 yr old to 55), you still max out your 401/IRA/HSA etc...

Psychiatrist 2:
Work 35 hrs/wk (5 days) for 300k/yr until retire at 55 and while saving/investing 100k/yr for all these years


I am trying to do #1 now as a hospitalist. Trying to make more in my first 10 yrs while investing/saving the extra pay, and then cut back to part time

I am working 17-18 days/month right now instead of 15. Once I feel that I have a good nest egg, I will cut back to 8-9 days, which will still get me ~200k/yr

 

[psychmd03]

What was your NW at time 0 which was july 2020 prior to starting as an attending ?
Average yearly spending in this time frame?
Avg returns in whatever you invest in this timeframe?

Regardless, hats off. Like if you have reached this primarily through grind then wow that is next level. Maybe you can do a post for White coat Investor. This may be some type of record unless you got a 10x by investing in spec assets. 4-5m is a no brainer by end of year 5 if you went from minimal NW to 2.5+ in 3 years.

Good question not exactly sure. I can only truly say I started residency with 200k of loans. I started moonlighting 1/4 through 3rd year and heavily by 1/2 way through. 4th year was part covid so I actually over doubled my residency salary because there was nothing else to do so I worked. So that helped me get settled.
Average spending was not super low but low enough 30k first year and most of second year. By 4th year inc maybe 50% because I moved but income tripled basically.
Returns no idea about the market return since I basically have almost everything in total stock market index.

I dont think the article would get much traction. I work much more than most again 2-4 days total off (this counts weekends) during covid I went 5 months without a true off day. I still have a few times now where is 6 weeks between true off days. Few people want to do that nor have the flexibility in jobs to do it. I feel lucky I do. If I reverted to a more normal set up I would have to stretch to closer to 10 years maybe a bit more to hit the desired numbers. But my goal is to hustle hard and build the nest egg early. I do not want to count on health care not to rapidly shift and cause our ability to generate income to disappear or for where I work to get bought out by PE and have them close the department who knows?

 

[forchinet121]

What was your NW at time 0 which was july 2020 prior to starting as an attending ?
Average yearly spending in this time frame?
Avg returns in whatever you invest in this timeframe?

Regardless, hats off. Like if you have reached this primarily through grind then wow that is next level. Maybe you can do a post for White coat Investor. This may be some type of record unless you got a 10x by investing in spec assets. 4-5m is a no brainer by end of year 5 if you went from minimal NW to 2.5+ in 3 years.

He makes over 1M+ per year..that’s how he did it there’s no magic to it..how he made that much is a different conversation but posting on the WCI would be pointless

 

[finalpsychyear]

2 scenario:

Assuming both psychiatrists start working at 30.

Psychiatrist 1:
Work 50 hrs/wk (5 days) as a psychiatrist for 7 yrs for a salary of 450k/yr and save/invest 200k for 7 yrs and then semi retire [work 22 hrs(3 days)/wk ..salary 200k/yr] at 37 and fully retire at 55. While working part time (38 yr old to 55), you still max out your 401/IRA/HSA etc...

Psychiatrist 2:
Work 35 hrs/wk (5 days) for 300k/yr until retire at 55 and while saving/investing 100k/yr for all these years


I am trying to do #1 now as a hospitalist. Trying to make more in my first 10 yrs while investing/saving the extra pay, and then cut back to part time

I am working 17-18 days/month right now instead of 15. Once I feel that I have a good nest egg, I will cut back to 8-9 days, which will still get me ~200k/yr

Why not get there by 45 instead. Psych 3 maintains the psych 1 schedule and is done by 44-45 with a 5m NW. He may choose to work 1-2 day/wk for fun/purpose/stimulation/etc.

The 50 hours over time should become several hours of admin/med director/etc while maintaining similar pay. No wknds/nights/holidays needed imo.

 

[Splenda88]

Why not get there by 45 instead. Psych 3 maintains the psych 1 schedule and is done by 44-45 with a 5m NW. He may choose to work 1-2 day/wk for fun/purpose/stimulation/etc.

The 50 hours over time should become several hours of admin/med director/etc while maintaining similar pay. No wknds/nights/holidays needed imo.

That is also a good option; however, I believe one needs 2m plus a paid off home to live comfortable especially if you are still making 150k/yr..

 

[Merovinge]

Do you mean within the city limits? If so, yeah, but most people in the stage of life where they're buying a million dollar house are likely looking for more of a suburban location that's family friendly. And you can definitely get 4000-5000 sq ft new construction in Dallas and Houston metro for under a million. Also Tampa. Also Research Triangle. Also Phoenix. Also Chicago.

I'd consider all of those to be "reasonably desirable" cities.

I do consider all those cities reasonably desirable. I have personally looked into building in two of them, and in the neighborhoods where you would realistically want to live with top flight schools there is absolutely no way you are getting both the lots and construction of 4000-5000 sq foot for under a million. Lots I looked at were 300 to 500k just for the land. In some of the better neighborhoods in some of those cities you would be easily looking at 1.5 if not 2 million for a house that size.

I'm not sure the last time you looked into new construction but prices now are materially different than 2-3 years ago. I watch the zillow market where I live because I have a friend looking to move nearby me from a different suburb and several of the new construction houses increased in price by 200k without any other change to what you get for it in that time period (and those are the lots that didn't sell).

 

[sloh]

He makes over 1M+ per year..that’s how he did it there’s no magic to it..how he made that much is a different conversation but posting on the WCI would be pointless

Inpatient volume machine. Index funds. This is the way!

 

[Splenda88]

Why not get there by 45 instead. Psych 3 maintains the psych 1 schedule and is done by 44-45 with a 5m NW. He may choose to work 1-2 day/wk for fun/purpose/stimulation/etc.

The 50 hours over time should become several hours of admin/med director/etc while maintaining similar pay. No wknds/nights/holidays needed imo.

Sounds great. Is that your plan?

 

[jbomba]

That is also a good option; however, I believe one needs 2m plus a paid off home to live comfortable especially if you are still making 150k/yr..

This sounds like coast fire. Also my plan. Going to crush it and should bring in 750k for 4 years. NW will be around 1.5m. At that point, chill out and do 20 hrs a week for the next 12 years while saving 4k a month. Then go travel for a few years in low cost of living countries, let the nest egg grow while my expenses are minimal and come back to 5-6m in securities + equity built up in a rental home and my primary home. Should be looking at 8-9m.

Figure I'll be living on 320k/year + whatever social security gives me at the time.

 

[Splenda88]

This sounds like coast fire. Also my plan. Going to crush it and should bring in 750k for 4 years. NW will be around 1.5m. At that point, chill out and do 20 hrs a week for the next 12 years while saving 4k a month. Then go travel for a few years in low cost of living countries, let the nest egg grow while my expenses are minimal and come back to 5-6m in securities + equity built up in a rental home and my primary home. Should be looking at 8-9m.

Figure I'll be living on 320k/year + whatever social security gives me at the time.

I have been an attending for less than 2 years and I have already realized that medicine is a career that is more sustainable and enjoyable when one has the ability/choice to work part time.

750k as a psychiatrist! That is pretty good. You can definitely semi retire in 5 yrs if you pay off student loan. The good thing about medicine is that one can work part time in most specialties and still make 150k/yr, which is a good salary.

 

[B52slinger]

This sounds like coast fire. Also my plan. Going to crush it and should bring in 750k for 4 years. NW will be around 1.5m. At that point, chill out and do 20 hrs a week for the next 12 years while saving 4k a month. Then go travel for a few years in low cost of living countries, let the nest egg grow while my expenses are minimal and come back to 5-6m in securities + equity built up in a rental home and my primary home. Should be looking at 8-9m.

Figure I'll be living on 320k/year + whatever social security gives me at the time.

Great plan. Work hard for 750k/year during the most critical stage to invest then ride the compound growth into retirement.
Want to do the same. Sounds like you're pretty frugal considering 750k after tax in CA is ~415k. So "living like a resident" to get to 1.5M in 4 years

 

[jbomba]

Great plan. Work hard for 750k/year during the most critical stage to invest then ride the compound growth into retirement.
Want to do the same. Sounds like you're pretty frugal considering 750k after tax in CA is ~415k. So "living like a resident" to get to 1.5M in 4 years

Eh sort of. I had some savings from a pre medical school job which provides a boost to that number. But generally speaking I have a great accountant who set me up with an s corp, defined benefits plan which allows loads of pre tax savings. My effective tax rate is closer to 35 than 45%

I'm not extravagant but i don't think anyone would call me frugal.

 

[bGMx]

This sounds like coast fire. Also my plan. Going to crush it and should bring in 750k for 4 years. NW will be around 1.5m. At that point, chill out and do 20 hrs a week for the next 12 years while saving 4k a month. Then go travel for a few years in low cost of living countries, let the nest egg grow while my expenses are minimal and come back to 5-6m in securities + equity built up in a rental home and my primary home. Should be looking at 8-9m.

Figure I'll be living on 320k/year + whatever social security gives me at the time.

Do you plan on working while you are in a low cost of living country? I would find it hard to stop practicing entirely.

 

[jbomba]

Do you plan on working while you are in a low cost of living country? I would find it hard to stop practicing entirely.

Honestly probably not. But that's almost two decades away. Who knows what I'll feel like doing then assuming everything goes according to plan to that point.

 

[Splenda88]

Honestly probably not. But that's almost two decades away. Who knows what I'll feel like doing then assuming everything goes according to plan to that point.

I feel like 3 mil plus a paid off home is enough to retire in today market.

5 mil is FAT fire to me. 10 mil is celebrity's money where one can travel first class everywhere, and even charter flights w/in the US.

 

[finalpsychyear]

I feel like 3 mil plus a paid off home is enough to retire in today market.

5 mil is FAT fire to me. 10 mil is celebrity's money where one can travel first class everywhere, and even charter flights w/in the US.

Would be great to hit the 5m mark someday. This horrible interest rate environment may cause my future mortage to be in the 5-6k range which is a lot in the midwest. Median house price in my area for a 30 yr is about 4k/mo to put things in perspective.