deleted

[sloh]

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There is classic hedonic adaptation/treadmill, it's virtually impossible to fight it if you ever get used to the luxury. We deal with this by spending far far below our means. Economy flights exclusively, book a hotel 5 minutes from the beach rather than on the beach, drive a 40k car instead of a 80-120k car, costco napa wine, not winery napa wine. Spend 2 nights at the fancy resort and then stay somewhere at a modest price for the rest of the trip. Not afraid at all to spend on things that bring value (lawncare, cleaner, babysitting, exotic travel but on a reasonable budget) but pretend the rest of the money doesn't exist.

If we actually saved 20% and spent the rest, life would look a lot different than our childhoods but I don't think I would be any happier. Expect to be much happier having the flexibility to work/not work by mid 40's.

Such good ROI spends

 

[B52slinger]

Regards to savings, I will put a plug in for defined benefits plans. My accountant helped get me set up but if you are doing 1099 work +/- self employed private practice it makes a lot of sense. Depending on age you can tax defer a significant amount. It starts around 125k/year and goes up each year you age. If you can find work for your spouse within your business entity, they can also have their own defined benefits plan allowing you to save a huge amount of money pre-tax.

Is the 125k/year limit based on age and/or income? Could a 29 year old PGY-4 doing hardcore moonlighting making an extra 250k from 1099 work put in 125k/year pre-tax as well? And what if someone has both W2 and 1099 income (say 200k of each)?

 

[Merovinge]

Is the 125k/year limit based on age and/or income? Could a 29 year old PGY-4 doing hardcore moonlighting making an extra 250k from 1099 work put in 125k/year pre-tax as well? And what if someone has both W2 and 1099 income (say 200k of each)?

You are not going to want to do a defined benefit plan for a 1 year period of time, they have substantial costs/fees associated with them. This is not the thing to be doing PGY4 year of training, you need access to cash typically for house down payments, student loans, or just being a person. Also spending your time learning defined benefit plans is just not the best use of your time.

They can be a great option for some high income earners that are going to stay with a job/income level for a reasonable amount of time to have less money going out at the highest tax bracket.

 

[B52slinger]

You are not going to want to do a defined benefit plan for a 1 year period of time, they have substantial costs/fees associated with them. This is not the thing to be doing PGY4 year of training, you need access to cash typically for house down payments, student loans, or just being a person. Also spending your time learning defined benefit plans is just not the best use of your time.

They can be a great option for some high income earners that are going to stay with a job/income level for a reasonable amount of time to have less money going out at the highest tax bracket.

Let me ask a different question: say I'm a 30 year old attending starting long-term 1099 work which brings in 300k/year. Am I allowed to invest 125k/year pre-tax into this defined benefits account assuming 100k is more than enough for me to live off of in my low COL area?

 

[jbomba]

Is the 125k/year limit based on age and/or income? Could a 29 year old PGY-4 doing hardcore moonlighting making an extra 250k from 1099 work put in 125k/year pre-tax as well? And what if someone has both W2 and 1099 income (say 200k of each)?

Yeah basically what @Merovinge said. I hustled as a pgy4 and made probably 180k extra. But the steps going into setting this up was something I would have needed to have done PGY3 and I just wasn't ready to do it at that point. I wouldn't sweat about having this ready to go as a PGY4. Once you're getting into post residency work, definitely give it some thought though.

 

[jbomba]

Let me ask a different question: say I'm a 30 year old attending starting long-term 1099 work which brings in 300k/year. Am I allowed to invest 125k/year pre-tax into this defined benefits account assuming 100k is more than enough for me to live off of in my low COL area?

Don't quote me on this, but I believe you can only get on a defined benefits plan once you hit a certain age. I believe 30 is too young.

 

[Splenda88]

Our household income is <$300k/yr and we will probably save around $60-70k this year. We could probably double that fairly easily if we lived more inline with my lifestyle which is more like a resident, but my wife is a bit of a spendthrift. We just bought a house that's about 20 yo, ~4k sq ft, we've probably dropped about $20k in new furniture, lawn mower, swing set, etc, go out to eat/order out at least 3x per week, and have our kid doing several programs a week (tumbling, soccer, swimming, etc) along with private daycare. We haven't traveled much, but plan to once our jobs slow down a bit more and we get a few more things ironed out.

I could (fairly easily) find a job in our area that would boost our gross income to at least $500k+ and we could sock away $225-250k/yr and not change our lifestyle. We have what I consider an upper class lifestyle, but if we lived in a higher CoL area we definitely could not live like this and reasonably save for retirement.

Lol... My wife also likes to spend, so I let spend on small ticket items (eg., hotel stay when we are vacationing), but if it's buying a house or an expensive car etc..., I sometimes have to provide my input.

 

[finalpsychyear]

Well, you will need a portfolio of 5 mil which can be achieved in 15 yrs since psych docs can make bank right now if willing to put the hours.

A 5m liquid portfolio that continues to spit out 6 percent returns forever is good enough for me to try and get there someday.

 

[Splenda88]

Do You Make Enough to be Middle Class in These American Cities?

The middle class has long been considered the backbone of the American economy. But the American middle class is shrinking. The percentage of adults living in middle-income households in the United States fell by more than 10 percentage points over … Continue reading → The post What It Takes to...

www.yahoo.com

 

[hamstergang]

Do You Make Enough to be Middle Class in These American Cities?

The middle class has long been considered the backbone of the American economy. But the American middle class is shrinking. The percentage of adults living in middle-income households in the United States fell by more than 10 percentage points over … Continue reading → The post What It Takes to...

www.yahoo.com

The important part of this, imo, is how they defined the range of incomes that is middle class: "We relied on a variation of the Pew Research definition of middle-income households, which defines a middle class salary range by two-thirds to double the median U.S. salary."

 

[clausewitz2]

The important part of this, imo, is how they defined the range of incomes that is middle class: "We relied on a variation of the Pew Research definition of middle-income households, which defines a middle class salary range by two-thirds to double the median U.S. salary."

"Breaking News: People who Earn Substantially More Than Most People Have A Lot of Money"

 

[Stagg737]

Lol... My wife also likes to spend, so I let spend on small ticket items (eg., hotel stay when we are vacationing), but if it's buying a house or an expensive car etc..., I sometimes have to provide my input.

Yea, my wife has been restricted a bit more than that after a terrible life decision regarding where we lived dying *during* my M4 year (thankfully we did not die). She has a tendency to only see the good and completely ignore or downplay the negatives, so any large ticket items have to get my approval first, lol. She also likes to craft and became a plant mom during COVID. I didn’t realize how much someone could spend on houseplants before that…

A 5m liquid portfolio that continues to spit out 6 percent returns forever is good enough for me to try and get there someday.

Spending 120k/yr i feel is a pretty luxurious life for two people currently.

Depends where you’re at in life. If you’re young when you retire and are still paying off a mortgage or cars, funding kids’ college, etc that can put you close to 6 figures before you’re even spending on yourself. Post-empty nest status without a mortgage or major debts and I’d agree that 120k/yr would be quite nice. If someone wants to FIRE (or Fat FIRE) and has a family, 120k/yr may not be nearly enough. Especially if you live in a HCOL area.

 

[finalpsychyear]

Yea, my wife has been restricted a bit more than that after a terrible life decision regarding where we lived dying my M4 year. She has a tendency to only see the good and completely ignore or downplay the negatives, so any large ticket items have to get my approval first, lol. She also likes to craft and became a plant mom during COVID. I didn’t realize how much someone could spend on houseplants before that…


Depends where you’re at in life. If you’re young when you retire and are still paying off a mortgage or cars, funding kids’ college, etc that can put you close to 6 figures before you’re even spending on yourself. Post-empty nest status without a mortgage or major debts and I’d agree that 120k/yr would be quite nice. If someone wants to FIRE (or Fat FIRE) and has a family, 120k/yr may not be nearly enough. Especially if you live in a HCOL area.

Agree completely. Goal is to someday get that nest egg to spit out 300k yearly. That is maybe enough to do 2 kids, mortgage, kids college, and our exepenses in a HCOL area even. Simple math would just say double my 120k now to account for all those things and the extra 60k is wiggle room and this is for HCOL. LCOL its probably easily doable at 200k.

 

[Stagg737]

Agree completely. Goal is to someday get that nest egg to spit out 300k yearly. That is maybe enough to do 2 kids, mortgage, kids college, and our exepenses in a HCOL area even. Simple math would just say double my 120k now to account for all those things and the extra 60k is wiggle room and this is for HCOL. LCOL its probably easily doable at 200k.

That's quite a goal. To make that retirement last 30 years with inflation rate of 5% and returns of 6% you'd have to have about 8 mil saved up right now to be able to pull $300k in today's dollars annually. Doable if you're a workhorse and invest most of your income for the next 5-7 years, but would probably be pretty rough.

My goal is to be financially able to retire at 55 yo and withdraw $150k per year. Even if I "retire" I'm still going to be doing some kind of part time work or some hobby where I can make income and I will probably work into my 70's if I live that long. But saving like I'm going to retire at 55, makes sure I'm well ahead of where I'd need to be retiring 10 years later.

 

[jbomba]

That's quite a goal. To make that retirement last 30 years with inflation rate of 5% and returns of 6% you'd have to have about 8 mil saved up right now to be able to pull $300k in today's dollars annually. Doable if you're a workhorse and invest most of your income for the next 5-7 years, but would probably be pretty rough.

My goal is to be financially able to retire at 55 yo and withdraw $150k per year. Even if I "retire" I'm still going to be doing some kind of part time work or some hobby where I can make income and I will probably work into my 70's if I live that long. But saving like I'm going to retire at 55, makes sure I'm well ahead of where I'd need to be retiring 10 years later.

Inflation is less of an issue if you own your own home outright or have a mortgage. The factors that go into determining inflation rate is based on many factors but one of the biggest is housing costs. The actual experienced inflation rate would be less than 5% in that scenario.

 

[psychmd03]

Here's how much money it takes to be considered middle class in 20 major U.S. cities

There are countless definitions of "middle class." See which incomes qualify as middle class in the largest U.S. metros based on one calculation.

www.google.com

According to that article, income above $232k would still be upper class in SF.

Redirect Notice

This one give similar numbers

Are you in the American middle class? Find out with our income calculator

About half of U.S. adults (52%) lived in middle-income households in 2022, according to our new analysis of government data.

www.pewresearch.org

And this one

Redirect Notice

And this one

I didn't pick and choose. These are all the top results when googling "upper class income by city."

Most of those articles are about middle class which most are defying quite broadly. The COL adjustment seems arbitrary as I have seen other google article defining the poverty line in SF around 100k or "low income" So I am gonna go out on a limb and say $230k isnt gonna make you feel like you can multiple nice vacations (no business class for sure) nor would you be able to be going out for dinner frequently.

San Francisco: Where a six-figure salary is 'low income'

How earnings of more than $100,000 became too little for a family of four to get by on.

www.bbc.com

 

[Splenda88]

This article attempts to define "Rich vs. Wealthy." I guess all physicians are rich; some are wealthy. However, most should be wealthy by the age of ~45 if they were traditional medical student.

One needs to have a little over 1 mil $$$ net worth to be on the top 10%.

Rich vs Wealthy: Summarizing the Differences

What's the difference between rich vs wealthy and how to build wealth for your financial future.

ofdollarsanddata.com

 

[psychmd03]

I think I read somewhere that people at all income levels imagine that 30% more money would be what makes them happier. I'm curious for those trying to make 500k+, how that lifestyle compares to what their childhood was like.

Valid question. Hard comparison I lived in the middle of nowhere tiny town growing up now living in a city so hard to compare those lifestyles. My childhood was good but it wasn't expensive trips to Europe or Asia good. But still got some traveling in the US. Now I for sure like food a lot more than when I was in college or younger so I will spend way more there then I used to and I enjoy it. Travel a few times a year. Overall I do not think anyone that knows me would be able to guess my salary. I prefer to put a ton away (close to 60% of earned or more last year) into brokerage accounts, and real estate to build a nest egg as fast as possible to let it start to snowball early. I dont think 30% would make me happier it would just allow that nest egg to build even faster. Honestly at this point I would need a truly dumb amount to hit the next level of "fun" IE business or first class tickets a few times a year to Asia/Europe while staying at 5 star hotels knowing it wont even touch my bottom line.

 

[finalpsychyear]

That's quite a goal. To make that retirement last 30 years with inflation rate of 5% and returns of 6% you'd have to have about 8 mil saved up right now to be able to pull $300k in today's dollars annually. Doable if you're a workhorse and invest most of your income for the next 5-7 years, but would probably be pretty rough.

My goal is to be financially able to retire at 55 yo and withdraw $150k per year. Even if I "retire" I'm still going to be doing some kind of part time work or some hobby where I can make income and I will probably work into my 70's if I live that long. But saving like I'm going to retire at 55, makes sure I'm well ahead of where I'd need to be retiring 10 years later.

1 percent real returns? I think 5-6 percent real is more likely. I'll have more answers by the end of 2025 to see if we get a bull run going again. If not, i'll be working till 55.

 

[finalpsychyear]

Caveat is that I bought a few years ago, but my 3500+ sq ft is 0.6

I’m also in a suburb, not near the city center. It isn’t considered a cool place to live. Schools are rated very highly though.

My buying season has come to the end. There was only 1 house i truly missed out on but that was a fri showing saying no offers considered till sun night and waking up sat am to find out they had taken an offer anyways which was less than what i would have offered but the realtor told me to hold off till sunday. Luckily, I somehow ended up with an amazing rental which turns into month to month next year so now the option to build could be on the table. Lucky in that it's very rare to get a rental in the same neighborhood as that house i missed out on. I also got picked out of 10 applicants, apparently even one that was willing to pay over rent price jeesh...

Holy cow what a difference it is to live in a house with a first floor dedicated office room, deck, 3 car garage, having an unfinished basement with storage still a plus. I cannot believe how good it felt on my 11 hour telepsych day to work in an office with windows and light. I even took out the treadmill which had been gathering dust for 1 year and used it for an hour while blasting my music cause i have fricking 3300 sq feet and no one above or below me.

Not trying to brag but with my spouse potentially also working from home in the next year it is good to have SPACE coming from a 1400 sq foot condo. Another great thing is i am sitting so little with so much space to walk around which studies are showing is linked to overall health.

Bottom line: ESPECIALLY if you are working from home and even more if both spouses are, I would suggest 3000sq feet if you can afford to particularly outside of the west coast. This has only solidified that i plan to find something in the 4000sq ft plus range plus a finished basement (home gym) and thankfully i live in an area that this is still in the high 6 figures to get.

 

[psychemdoc]

My buying season has come to the end. There was only 1 house i truly missed out on but that was a fri showing saying no offers considered till sun night and waking up sat am to find out they had taken an offer anyways which was less than what i would have offered but the realtor told me to hold off till sunday. Luckily, I somehow ended up with an amazing rental which turns into month to month next year so now the option to build could be on the table. Lucky in that it's very rare to get a rental in the same neighborhood as that house i missed out on. I also got picked out of 10 applicants, one that was willing to pay over rent price..

Holy cow what a difference it is to live in a house with a first floor dedicated office room, deck, 3 car garage, having an unfinished basement with storage still a plus. I cannot believe how good it felt on my 11 hour telepsych day to work in an office with windows and light. I even took out the treadmill which had been gathering dust for 1 year and used it for an hour while blasting my music cause i have fricking 3300 sq feet and no one above or below me.

Not trying to brag but with my spouse potentially also working from home in the next year it is good to have SPACE coming from a 1400 sq foot condo. Another great thing is i am sitting so little with so much space to walk around which studies are showing is linked to overall health.

Bottom line: ESPECIALLY if you are working from home and even more if both spouses are, I would suggest 3000sq feet if you can afford to particularly outside of the west coast. This has only solidified that i plan to find something in the 4000sq ft plus range plus a finished basement (home gym) and thankfully i live in an area that this is still in the 6 figures to get albeit high.

Sorry to hear about the house hunting it’s a nightmare out there. At least you’re getting more time to try out the housing and seeing what you like and don’t like with this rental and all this space.

 

[Stagg737]

My buying season has come to the end. There was only 1 house i truly missed out on but that was a fri showing saying no offers considered till sun night and waking up sat am to find out they had taken an offer anyways which was less than what i would have offered but the realtor told me to hold off till sunday. Luckily, I somehow ended up with an amazing rental which turns into month to month next year so now the option to build could be on the table. Lucky in that it's very rare to get a rental in the same neighborhood as that house i missed out on. I also got picked out of 10 applicants, one that was willing to pay over rent price..

Holy cow what a difference it is to live in a house with a first floor dedicated office room, deck, 3 car garage, having an unfinished basement with storage still a plus. I cannot believe how good it felt on my 11 hour telepsych day to work in an office with windows and light. I even took out the treadmill which had been gathering dust for 1 year and used it for an hour while blasting my music cause i have fricking 3300 sq feet and no one above or below me.

Not trying to brag but with my spouse potentially also working from home in the next year it is good to have SPACE coming from a 1400 sq foot condo. Another great thing is i am sitting so little with so much space to walk around which studies are showing is linked to overall health.

Bottom line: ESPECIALLY if you are working from home and even more if both spouses are, I would suggest 3000sq feet if you can afford to particularly outside of the west coast. This has only solidified that i plan to find something in the 4000sq ft plus range plus a finished basement (home gym) and thankfully i live in an area that this is still in the 6 figures to get albeit high.

Congrats, sounds like it worked out well for now, enjoy it!

I know some people scoffed at needing 3k+ square feet, but once you're above that you really can do so much more with the space. Our ~1,100 square foot, finished basement is still empty right now, so we're making a little indoor mini golf course for our kid's upcoming birthday party and he loves to do tumbling stuff down there. Long-term I'd like to have an entertainment area down there with a pool table, bar, and a decent sized tv for game day (house came with some nice built-in speakers) and a separate area for a small home gym. The Layout is kind of unique (J-ish shaped with a flexible extra bedroom and walk-out to a back patio), so could even turn it into a small apartment/mother-in-law suite if we wanted to.

If you can get a bigger house at a reasonable price I agree that I 1000% would support it unless you're a hardcore minimalist.

 

[Merovinge]

Congrats, sounds like it worked out well for now, enjoy it!

I know some people scoffed at needing 3k+ square feet, but once you're above that you really can do so much more with the space. Our ~1,100 square foot, finished basement is still empty right now, so we're making a little indoor mini golf course for our kid's upcoming birthday party and he loves to do tumbling stuff down there. Long-term I'd like to have an entertainment area down there with a pool table, bar, and a decent sized tv for game day (house came with some nice built-in speakers) and a separate area for a small home gym. The Layout is kind of unique (J-ish shaped with a flexible extra bedroom and walk-out to a back patio), so could even turn it into a small apartment/mother-in-law suite if we wanted to.

If you can get a bigger house at a reasonable price I agree that I 1000% would support it unless you're a hardcore minimalist.

Absolutely, I think 3000's is great for my family of 3, could swing 4 on the higher end of 3000's and be quite comfortable. Basements are amazingly cheap per sq footage so parts of the country that have them let you really get a lot of space that is wonderful for older children to be away from you, gym, entertainment (bar, pool table, ping pong, home theater etc.), in-law area, etc.

I am about as frugal as they come but housing is the one area I think is absolutely worth the spend if it's within your means. The ROI is so much better emotionally and financially (as most of the time housing keeps up with inflation). You don't have to feel bad like buying a fancy car, boat, etc where the depreciation is huge, although if that's your thing, you do you.

 

[Splenda88]

Congrats, sounds like it worked out well for now, enjoy it!

I know some people scoffed at needing 3k+ square feet, but once you're above that you really can do so much more with the space. Our ~1,100 square foot, finished basement is still empty right now, so we're making a little indoor mini golf course for our kid's upcoming birthday party and he loves to do tumbling stuff down there. Long-term I'd like to have an entertainment area down there with a pool table, bar, and a decent sized tv for game day (house came with some nice built-in speakers) and a separate area for a small home gym. The Layout is kind of unique (J-ish shaped with a flexible extra bedroom and walk-out to a back patio), so could even turn it into a small apartment/mother-in-law suite if we wanted to.

If you can get a bigger house at a reasonable price I agree that I 1000% would support it unless you're a hardcore minimalist.

nice to be rich.. huh.

 

[Stagg737]

nice to be rich.. huh.

Eh, yes and no? Our household gross is about $300k and we could certainly afford a lot more where we're at. My house is ~4k sq ft and we paid well under $600k for it, current mortgage is a little over $3k/mo. Costs have skyrocketed in the past few years and in my city Realtor.com shows houses between 2,750-3250 sq ft less than 20 years old ranging from $350-500k other than a few expensive outliers. So yea, nice to be in the top 5% of households, but could still afford a house the size we're talking about if we made a lot less. No need to be "rich", but wealth and being "rich" is pretty relative.

 

[finalpsychyear]

nice to be rich.. huh.

Don't you earn close to 400k and have an investment property on top of a primary residence lol and live in a very rural place to top it off?

 

[finalpsychyear]

Absolutely, I think 3000's is great for my family of 3, could swing 4 on the higher end of 3000's and be quite comfortable. Basements are amazingly cheap per sq footage so parts of the country that have them let you really get a lot of space that is wonderful for older children to be away from you, gym, entertainment (bar, pool table, ping pong, home theater etc.), in-law area, etc.

I am about as frugal as they come but housing is the one area I think is absolutely worth the spend if it's within your means. The ROI is so much better emotionally and financially (as most of the time housing keeps up with inflation). You don't have to feel bad like buying a fancy car, boat, etc where the depreciation is huge, although if that's your thing, you do you.

I spend on travel/experiences, good food, cleaner, lawn person now and will on babysitter etc when those days arrive, workout stuff/supplements. Housing is ok to splurge on a little bit given it actually appreciates unlike most toys within reason.

 

[forchinet121]

nice to be rich.. huh.

Are you not a physician..? Lol

 

[Splenda88]

Don't you earn close to 400k and have an investment property on top of a primary residence lol and live in a very rural place to top it off?

Not too rural. It's a small city. I have two investment properties.

 

[Splenda88]

Are you not a physician..? Lol

I am... not sure why you ask.

 

[forchinet121]

I am... not sure why you ask.

Oh I asked because you said “must be nice to be rich” but if you’re a physician then you are also rich..

 

[doctalaughs]

Each person has to decide what’s important to them but I personally have a 4000 sq house (plus 1500 sq foot basement) 6 bd 5 ba and it’s the best money I’ve ever spent. I love not sharing walls and not being close enough to neighbors to be bothered if they are being loud. Enjoy having space to entertain, plenty of room for kids, really nice home gym (hated wasting time driving to the gym for the 4 machines I use) etc etc. most of all love having some land and privacy of the space (huge trees etc). Not to mention safe, gated/ security, great public schools, running paths, great community pool etc.

Also happy to spend on vacations (55k this year).

Not keen to spend on cars, shiny toys (watches/jewelry etc), boats/ 2nd homes etc.

Like I said, spend what makes you happy as long as you are also saving enough to realistically project and plan for your target retirement “number” (mine being 10M but plan to work to mid/late 50s rather than super-early retirement- I think I’d get bored earlier than that).

 

[finalpsychyear]

Each person has to decide what’s important to them but I personally have a 4000 sq house (plus 1500 sq foot basement) 6 bd 5 ba and it’s the best money I’ve ever spent. I love not sharing walls and not being close enough to neighbors to be bothered if they are being loud. Enjoy having space to entertain, plenty of room for kids, really nice home gym (hated wasting time driving to the gym for the 4 machines I use) etc etc. most of all love having some land and privacy of the space (huge trees etc). Not to mention safe, gated/ security, great public schools, running paths, great community pool etc.

Also happy to spend on vacations (55k this year).

Not keen to spend on cars, shiny toys (watches/jewelry etc), boats/ 2nd homes etc.

Like I said, spend what makes you happy as long as you are also saving enough to realistically project and plan for your target retirement “number” (mine being 10M but plan to work to mid/late 50s rather than super-early retirement- I think I’d get bored earlier than that).

Spot on. Plus you feel this way even with working outside the house mainly I am assuming. I can only imagine if you spent 50% or more of your clinical time working from home you may feel even stronger about this and just maybe even more space could be justified under that scenario if you had 3-4 kids in the house which you may. I am finding new benefits such as being able to go out on the deck/patio during the work day which i didn't have in my condo and damn I am literally moving so much more because there is space for me to roam without annoying my wife.

In 3 days of moving in, hands down especially for my scenario working 40 ish hours some weeks out of 60 from home its a no brainer to ultimately purchase a 4000-5000 sq ft plus a large finished basement. The amount of time I actually spend at home I probably utilize the house 2x as much as the average doc. I am very lucky that I can likely find this type of house over the next 12 mo and maintain a 1-1.5 mortgage ratio. No brainer decision now. Good to hear others enjoy and feel similarly.

 

[Merovinge]

Spot on. Plus you feel this way even with working outside the house mainly I am assuming. I can only imagine if you spent 50% or more of your clinical time working from home you may feel even stronger about this and just maybe even more space could be justified under that scenario if you had 3-4 kids in the house which you may. I am finding new benefits such as being able to go out on the deck/patio during the work day which i didn't have in my condo and damn I am literally moving so much more because there is space for me to roam without annoying my wife.

In 3 days of moving in, hands down especially for my scenario working 40 ish hours some weeks out of 60 from home its a no brainer to ultimately purchase a 4000-5000 sq ft plus a large finished basement. The amount of time I actually spend at home I probably utilize the house 2x as much as the average doc. I am very lucky that I can likely find this type of house over the next 12 mo and maintain a 1-1.5 mortgage ratio. No brainer decision now. Good to hear others enjoy and feel similarly.

Having just gotten back from vacation in California, this is definitely the tradeoff versus average to low cost of living places. If you live somewhere with lower CoL, I think housing is one of the absolute best places to spend the $$, especially as there is likely less to do then living in a large metropolis. In the suburbs where I live, there is not a lot to do at night so people seem to have decked out their homes to the nine as the places to be. It's weird being old enough that I find that desirable but for you youngins the day will come...

 

[B52slinger]

UPDATE: I am graduating residency this week and after lawyer review, I have signed a combination of job contracts that will have me earning a little over 700k my first year as a psychiatry attending. I will be seeing lots of patients each day, with minimal PTO, but will only be working 5 days/week. I can't wait to start!!!

These are relatively stable jobs, not locums or private practice, and I will be purchasing a $2-2.5M house in CA as my partner has a high-earning tech job here. Thanks everyone for participating in this thread!

 

[sloh]

UPDATE: I am graduating residency this week and after lawyer review, I have signed a combination of job contracts that will have me earning a little over 700k my first year as a psychiatry attending. I will be seeing lots of patients each day, with minimal PTO, but will only be working 5 days/week. I can't wait to start!!!

These are relatively stable jobs, not locums or private practice, and I will be purchasing a $2-2.5M house in CA as my partner has a high-earning tech job here. Thanks everyone for participating in this thread!

Hours?

 

[psychmd03]

Each person has to decide what’s important to them but I personally have a 4000 sq house (plus 1500 sq foot basement) 6 bd 5 ba and it’s the best money I’ve ever spent. I love not sharing walls and not being close enough to neighbors to be bothered if they are being loud. Enjoy having space to entertain, plenty of room for kids, really nice home gym (hated wasting time driving to the gym for the 4 machines I use) etc etc. most of all love having some land and privacy of the space (huge trees etc). Not to mention safe, gated/ security, great public schools, running paths, great community pool etc.

Also happy to spend on vacations (55k this year).

Not keen to spend on cars, shiny toys (watches/jewelry etc), boats/ 2nd homes etc.

Like I said, spend what makes you happy as long as you are also saving enough to realistically project and plan for your target retirement “number” (mine being 10M but plan to work to mid/late 50s rather than super-early retirement- I think I’d get bored earlier than that).

Fully agreed here. Find out what actually gives you happiness and is deeply satisfying. It is different for everyone. I probably spend close to 20K on dining out and socializing with friends. But I love the memories and experiences. I also love traveling and I am more than happy to spend to travel a few times a year both to see friends or to explore new places. I also am happy to spend more on fitness I have two memberships just to make sure I have one that is nice that I love and one for convenience when I need the easiest option. Those are my top three places I spend and easily makes up 80% of my spending for the year but those are the things that give me the most joy so I am happy to spend there

 

[Merovinge]

Fully agreed here. Find out what actually gives you happiness and is deeply satisfying. It is different for everyone. I probably spend close to 20K on dining out and socializing with friends. But I love the memories and experiences. I also love traveling and I am more than happy to spend to travel a few times a year both to see friends or to explore new places. I also am happy to spend more on fitness I have two memberships just to make sure I have one that is nice that I love and one for convenience when I need the easiest option. Those are my top three places I spend and easily makes up 80% of my spending for the year but those are the things that give me the most joy so I am happy to spend there

What is this nonsense, spending money on the things that are scientifically shown to give you the most happiness? Spend all your money on h**kers and blow like the rest of us!

 

[psychemdoc]

What is this nonsense, spending money on the things that are scientifically shown to give you the most happiness? Spend all your money on h**kers and blow like the rest of us!

Some people want to shame us for who we are. On this month of all months. I say never again!

 

[psychemdoc]

UPDATE: I am graduating residency this week and after lawyer review, I have signed a combination of job contracts that will have me earning a little over 700k my first year as a psychiatry attending. I will be seeing lots of patients each day, with minimal PTO, but will only be working 5 days/week. I can't wait to start!!!

These are relatively stable jobs, not locums or private practice, and I will be purchasing a $2-2.5M house in CA as my partner has a high-earning tech job here. Thanks everyone for participating in this thread!

Thank you for updating us! Helpful information for the community and others!

 

[forchinet121]

UPDATE: I am graduating residency this week and after lawyer review, I have signed a combination of job contracts that will have me earning a little over 700k my first year as a psychiatry attending. I will be seeing lots of patients each day, with minimal PTO, but will only be working 5 days/week. I can't wait to start!!!

These are relatively stable jobs, not locums or private practice, and I will be purchasing a $2-2.5M house in CA as my partner has a high-earning tech job here. Thanks everyone for participating in this thread!

Lol you can’t wait to start seeing a lot of patients every day with minimal PTO? That’s kind of funny

 

[Marasmus1]

What is that hype about buying big a*s house in CA ? I thought the reason people want to live in Cali is because of the amazing weather and city life not because of its great housing market.

 

[Merovinge]

What is that hype about buying big a*s house in CA ? I thought the reason people want to live in Cali is because of the amazing weather and city life not because of its great housing market.

I think you misunderstand. 2-2.5M in CA does not get you anything near a big house, that's more like a bit over starter home, 3500sq ft if you are lucky. Certainly not a stereotypic doctor mansion and nothing in the hills or Silicon Valley. Being able to afford a nice single family home out of training in the most desirable place in the entire world is certainly an accomplishment, which is what they are celebrating.

 

[clausewitz2]

I think you misunderstand. 2-2.5M in CA does not get you anything near a big house, that's more like a bit over starter home, 3500sq ft if you are lucky. Certainly not a stereotypic doctor mansion and nothing in the hills or Silicon Valley. Being able to afford a nice single family home out of training in the most desirable place in the entire world is certainly an accomplishment, which is what they are celebrating.

Manhattan and London would like to have a word with you.

 

[Merovinge]

Manhattan and London would like to have a word with you.

To each there own, but look at where all the wealthiest people across the whole earth own homes at. More in Cali than either NYC and London, although I like both of those cities.

 

[forchinet121]

To each there own, but look at where all the wealthiest people across the whole earth own homes at. More in Cali than either NYC and London, although I like both of those cities.

NYC has the most

 

[Merovinge]

NYC has the most

Not a RE specialist but that's not what I am seeing.

Where Do Most Celebrities Live? | PropertyClub

In the US, certain states are magnets for celebrities looking for a place to live. This article lists the top states where you're most likely to find famous people, from California to Utah.

propertyclub.nyc

The Top 20 Towns Celebrities Live in The U.S.

The life of a celebrity has always been an interesting topic. We are naturally curious about how they live and where they live. Many celebrities live

nimvo.com

Discover Hollywood Celebrity Homes | Action Tour Guide

If you’re trying to meet a famous person or even see where they live and play, check out this guide to the most renowned celebrity neighborhoods!

actiontourguide.com

 

[forchinet121]

Not a RE specialist but that's not what I am seeing.

Where Do Most Celebrities Live? | PropertyClub

In the US, certain states are magnets for celebrities looking for a place to live. This article lists the top states where you're most likely to find famous people, from California to Utah.

propertyclub.nyc

The Top 20 Towns Celebrities Live in The U.S.

The life of a celebrity has always been an interesting topic. We are naturally curious about how they live and where they live. Many celebrities live

nimvo.com

Discover Hollywood Celebrity Homes | Action Tour Guide

If you’re trying to meet a famous person or even see where they live and play, check out this guide to the most renowned celebrity neighborhoods!

actiontourguide.com

Why are you talking about celebrities we’re talking about wealthy I thought

 

[Splenda88]

Manhattan and London would like to have a word with you.

I have not been to London but Manhattan is nice though.

 

[Merovinge]

Why are you talking about celebrities we’re talking about wealthy I thought

You're right, I think more like someone gets mega wealth in *any other country*, where do they move. I don't think there is data on that but I would bet Cali>NYC. NYC has the most hugely rich people because they made their money as part of being in the NYC area.