"Delicate" Question

[txcharmer]

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After I graduated from college, I took a few advanced bio classes at my local college (in the same state where I graduated but in my hometown). I was burnt out and didn't do so well (2 Cs and 1D).

Anyway, I'm about to start getting my apps together and I wonder if I REALLY have to include this one semester from this one school. It's not included on my transcript from where I graduated. I just don't need these classes bringing down my GPA.

If I don't include it, do you think that the schools I'm applying to will be able to find out about it? Is there some national database where they can look me up?

Thanks - Charmer

 

[tinkerbelle]

i don't know if there is a national database or not, but if you don't include these grades and someone finds out, you risk losing your med school acceptance. And it's just plain old *dishonest*. Perhaps you can include them and give an explanation? Will it really bring your gpa down that much?

 

[efex101]

According to AMCAS policies you must report ALL classes taken period. Not doing this and medical schools later finding out is not something that you want to personally experience. Do not "fudge" put it down and move on.

 

[VFrank]

I would definitely put it down. Not only is it the right and honest thing to do, it will give you peace of mind. Do you really want to spend this whole application process AND the first couple years of medical school wondering if you're going to be discovered? I sure wouldn't. It's better to be honest up front and then you don't have to worry about keeping up your lie and/or getting "caught" later.

 

[txcharmer]

But once you're in, they surely don't go looking up things on you. They're gonna be too busy worrying about the next class trying to get in.

 

[runner1979]

But once you're in, they surely don't go looking up things on you. They're gonna be too busy worrying about the next class trying to get in.

Not putting the courses down is playing with fire. Include the courses. If there are consequences to including those courses, deal with them and move on. You are a future physician--have some integrity.

 

[bruinrab]

But once you're in, they surely don't go looking up things on you. They're gonna be too busy worrying about the next class trying to get in.

They may not actively look it up once you're in. But if the information happens to come their way, they'll still act on it. People have been kicked out of med school for pulling this type of crap. Not a risk I'd want to take.

Don't bother trying to hide it unless you like the idea of having it hanging over you for the rest of your life.

 

[stinkycheese]

They may not actively look it up once you're in. But if the information happens to come their way, they'll still act on it. People have been kicked out of med school for pulling this type of crap. Not a risk I'd want to take.

Don't bother trying to hide it unless you like the idea of having it hanging over you for the rest of your life.

Not only can you get kicked out, but even after you've graduated, your degree can be revoked. Hey, we all have stuff we'd like to hide. I had a C in a summer school course that I took in high school and I actually forgot about ever having taken it until the day before I submitted my AMCAS. Tempting not to put it in? Yes, for sure. But worth the risk and feelings of guilt? Not at all. Yes, it sucks when we have to pay for our poor decisions of the past, but if you haven't learned enough to move on, then you're not ready to apply anyway. 👎 I included all my courses and grades, and my GPA is not so hot, but I have two interviews already regardless. Just do the right thing.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I had a C in a summer school course that I took in high school and I actually forgot about ever having taken it until the day before I submitted my AMCAS.

i presume that was a college level course...?

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Definitely include everything The risk of getting caught is not worth the little bit it may effect your overall GPA.

As a physician would you just overlook prescribing the wrong dosage of a drug because it might effect your review? Do the right thing; this is a reflection of your integrity.

 

[txcharmer]

Hey, if it means the difference between getting in or not. . .I think anyone would be tempted.

Do you guys have any links to where guys have been kicked out of med school for lying? Does it really happen?

 

[Tiddly of Winks]

Hey, if it means the difference between getting in or not. . .I think anyone would be tempted.

I completely understand. Thinking something or feeling a certain way do NOT equal acting upon those thoughts or feelings.

Sorry I can't offer any info on that stuff. Maybe you should post in the med student forum (they'd have more experience, or know someone who knew someone...).

 

[Caesarsgrl]

put it down. they wont reject you outrigh for a few classes. The affect on your overall science GPA may suffer from this, but if you are otherwise qualified candidate you'll still get a secondary. The important thiing is to be prepared to talk about it in interviews

 

[Ypo.]

My advice is to kill all people who have ever seen you attending that school, and to burn down the whole school (or at least the records office). That way, you can rest easy in medical school, knowing you will never be caught, and that no one will ever know that your GPA is slightly less than perfect.

If you are not willing to go to these extreme measures, then just be honest to begin with, because believe me... Adcoms have ways of finding out- they are ALL-POWERFUL.

Fear the adcom.

 

[Taurus]

You are in a no-win situation. Leave it out and you may suffer consequences later. Put it in and you may not get accepted anywhere because it will drop your gpa so low -- this is a numbers game after all. Solution? Retake classes or take more advanced classes. Medical schools will overlook bad grades that happen during early college, but they will raise an eyebrow if it happens later on.

 

[UseUrHeadFred]

They'll kick out a med student for this. At any time. You could be a week from graduation, if they find out, you're finished. If you get kicked out, kiss your chances of getting into any other school in the U.S. (and a residency after that) goodbye.

Don't mess with academic dishonesty.

 

[ethanolabsolute]

I hear a lot of people talking about how u could get kicked out and ur degree could be revoked for not putting down 2 undergraduate classes on ur application. I don't see any evidence at all though. Can anyone back up these claims? I realize people are prolly gonna get a little pissed at me for posting this, but Im really curious about some of these claims. Revoking a medical because of 2 undergrad classes not being on an application seems just a bit harsh...

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I hear a lot of people talking about how u could get kicked out and ur degree could be revoked for not putting down 2 undergraduate classes on ur application. I don't see any evidence at all though. Can anyone back up these claims? I realize people are prolly gonna get a little pissed at me for posting this, but Im really curious about some of these claims. Revoking a medical because of 2 undergrad classes not being on an application seems just a bit harsh...

the point is, it's a reflection of your integrity. I couldn't find any proof of these claims, but i have definitely heard of it happening in undergrad for lying on your admission apps

 

[stinkycheese]

I hear a lot of people talking about how u could get kicked out and ur degree could be revoked for not putting down 2 undergraduate classes on ur application. I don't see any evidence at all though. Can anyone back up these claims? I realize people are prolly gonna get a little pissed at me for posting this, but Im really curious about some of these claims. Revoking a medical because of 2 undergrad classes not being on an application seems just a bit harsh...

I'm sure people make honest omissions/discrepancies all the time, and if they do not reasonably affect the integrity of the application or the GPA, then they will be forgiven. But it's pretty obvious that someone who took three courses AFTER college (therefore not really having time to "forget" about them) and did poorly in all of them, and then didn't report the courses, well, they were trying to cover something up, which is academic dishonesty. In case you hadn't gotten the memo, in academia, academic dishonesty is akin to high treason. Sure, you wiseasses out there are going to say, "they'll never find out, dude", and you may be right, but if you are wrong, then say a nice big "peace" to your medical career. It's the same as cheating on a test: you might not get caught, but that doesn't make it right, and if you are caught, see ya.

 

[randomlogik]

I remember hearing a story about a 4th year at my school that got kicked out right before graduation because he failed to mention that he had dropped out of dental school. Obviously this is a lot larger omission than a few post bac classes, but i think i would still add them. Apply with a clean conscience.

 

[medic170]

Its scary that someone with ethical standards this poor is probably going to be practicing medicine one day. Sure we all have been tempted, but it sounds like you are seriously considering doing this, and to do so would be completely immoral, unethical, and unbecoming of a future physician. 😕

 

[tastywithmilk]

If you are seriously considering doing this, the first thing you should do is make sure that there is not some form of national database. I believe there are a number of companies which offer such a service, I don't remember any of their names off hand but I read about them on this board somewhere.

Make sure you understand the consquenses totaly before you do something like this. Don't kid yourself, if you get caught the result will be severe. You will be kicked out and you will not be able to get into another medical school. You'll probably have trouble getting into any grad school with a academic dishonesty mark on your record.

Will they take back your medical degree? I don't know. I can say this though, they are going to set the penalty high enough as to discourage anyone from even thinking about doing it.

As people mentioned before, do you really want to worry about it for the next 4 years? Everytime you get a piece of mail from your school your mind will wonder, if only for a second, if this is it, if you've been caught.

I can't imagine any two courses screwing you up that bad that you can't fix them. You can always take a few more courses, retake those, etc to boost and fix your application.

 

[DieselPetrolGrl]

um i got a X for not mailing in a D from a summer school
i didnt even transfer it
dude do the X's hurt??? they put that D nice and big in the beginning - thanks to the choronolical order 🙁 🙁 🙁
i am just glad they didnt come shoot me down in my driveway or somthing

 

[DieselPetrolGrl]

dude i know i sound crazy but it was a junior college "fun" class
i decided i didnt want to do the camp like course and left bc the fee was non refundable
i wrote a email and got a responce saying since it was college level and i did register i had to disclose it and i can explain my circumstances to adcoms wth
bah i give up i cant go through amcas again so i wait for secondaries

 

[NubianPrincess]

Sure we all have been tempted, but it sounds like you are seriously considering doing this, and to do so would be completely immoral, unethical, and unbecoming of a future physician. 😕

I don't want to sound "high-horsey," but I have to agree. Just tell the truth. If you really believe that lying is the only way to get in, maybe you should do some more self-reflection. I say this because you speak as if this one semester can make the difference b/w acceptance and rejection.

 

[DieselPetrolGrl]

Sooo do those Xs against my D hurt???

I don't want to sound "high-horsey," but I have to agree. Just tell the truth. If you really believe that lying is the only way to get in, maybe you should do some more self-reflection. I say this because you speak as if this one semester can make the difference b/w acceptance and rejection.

 

[txcharmer]

i wrote a email and got a responce saying since it was college level and i did register i had to disclose it and i can explain my circumstances to adcoms wth bah i give up i cant go through amcas again so i wait for secondaries

So I guess they do have a way of finding out. You didn't include the class and they put an X for a grade. Interesting.

 

[DieselPetrolGrl]

they added the class in teh FIRST coulum PRECEDING my damn freshman yr...put a D for it..and a X..i am thinking maybe my undergrad ratted me out..how its not on my official!
but main Q i have:
will the Xs hurt
i dodnt even know why i got them on 2 classes in my soph year..bc i placed them out of order?
do they hurt?

 

[liverotcod]

they added the class in teh FIRST coulum PRECEDING my damn freshman yr...put a D for it..and a X..i am thinking maybe my undergrad ratted me out..how its not on my official!
but main Q i have:
will the Xs hurt
i dodnt even know why i got them on 2 classes in my soph year..bc i placed them out of order?
do they hurt?

I've got a bunch on my AMCAS as well, from where they moved some courses that I considered junior year into senior year. Whatever. I don't think it matters one bit, and as evidence I have now received 29 out of 30 secondaries, including a bunch that screen. The X just means that AAMC fixed something, it doesn't imply that you were cheating or lying.

Or perhaps the X marks the spot of the buried treasure?

 

[lattimer13]

After I graduated from college, I took a few advanced bio classes at my local college (in the same state where I graduated but in my hometown). I was burnt out and didn't do so well (2 Cs and 1D).

Anyway, I'm about to start getting my apps together and I wonder if I REALLY have to include this one semester from this one school. It's not included on my transcript from where I graduated. I just don't need these classes bringing down my GPA.

If I don't include it, do you think that the schools I'm applying to will be able to find out about it? Is there some national database where they can look me up?

Thanks - Charmer

DON'T ommit the classes. if you do, you might get caught, but you really don't want to start down this road now and continue in the future doing similar things...especially things that relate to patient care.

 

[mamaMD]

Suck it up and do it, I had too.

I took 2 classes over 12 years old (I am 30 now) and got two F's that are still carried on my cum GPA. It *totally* sucks I know but you don't want to risk it.

I had a friend who was in nursing school, worked her butt off to get accepted and everything and decided not to report 1 single F she made, about 3 months into the program they walked in, told her to leave because of that grade she didn't report....I would imagine if nursing programs looks around like that then medical schools will too.

Good luck 🙂

 

[stinkycheese]

they added the class in teh FIRST coulum PRECEDING my damn freshman yr...put a D for it..and a X..i am thinking maybe my undergrad ratted me out..how its not on my official!
but main Q i have:
will the Xs hurt
i dodnt even know why i got them on 2 classes in my soph year..bc i placed them out of order?
do they hurt?

So what you're saying is that you didn't report the class, but AMCAS found out about it, put it on your course listing, and got a verified transcript all by itself? Whoa... detective work on their part. You're lucky you didn't get investigated formally, I thought that was how they did things if there was a major omission. Well, let DPG's experience be a lesson to the OP...

 

[Code Brown]

So what you're saying is that you didn't report the class, but AMCAS found out about it, put it on your course listing, and got a verified transcript all by itself? Whoa... detective work on their part. You're lucky you didn't get investigated formally, I thought that was how they did things if there was a major omission. Well, let DPG's experience be a lesson to the OP...

There is no way they found out without looking at your transcript. Contrary to popular belief, there is no national database out there with your grades on it. These companies that offer the services can go to individual schools, but they need to go to each school individualy and so they need to go to specific schools that they are told to go to. Your undergrad transcripts include everything ever sent to your school (well, a CSU transcript will) including your high school GPA, SAT scores, any courses (even if they were not accepted for credit, AP, CLEP, DANTE, etc.). The reason that people get caught is that they tell someone about it, and that person tells the wrong person and bang, they get caught. Now I am not saying that you should go ahead and lie, but the fact of the matter is that many people get away with it and many will. It's not like not reporting a W from a single class you took at no-name community college 15 years ago is going to make a difference. And if they ever find out, they will probably not really care either about something so trivial. Cheating or outright lying is bad, but omitting some minor detail is not the end of the world. I think people need to relax. That said, a W from 15 years ago won't make a difference in you getting in either.

 

[medic170]

And if they ever find out, they will probably not really care either about something so trivial..

you honestly think academic dishonesty in any way is trivial? 🙄 Do you really believe that "many can and do get away with it" ? I weep for the future of the medical profession, liars and people who excuse the actions of them.

 

[Code Brown]

you honestly think academic dishonesty in any way is trivial? 🙄 Do you really believe that "many can and do get away with it" ? I weep for the future of the medical profession, liars and people who excuse the actions of them.

Let's get something straight here, not reporting a course you took a long time ago is not academic dishonesty. Cheating/Plagirism, this is academic dishonesty. What I'm talking about is leaving skeletons in the closet where they belong. Ever hear the old saying, "Let sleeping dogs lie." That's what this is all about. I'll give yo two scenarios:

1. You find out your doctor cheated on his board exams. Do you worry about his integrity and his ability to practice medicine? Yes you do.

2. You find out that before your doctor decided to enter the medical field, he was a kid who had no direction and so blew off one or two college courses. Fifteen years later, he changed his life around, went back to school, kicked butt, and applied to medical school. He failed to mention his screwing around days when he was young on his application. Do you worry about his integrity and his ability to practice medicine? No you don't.

3. You find out your physician has had his driver's license suspended for too many speeding tickets. Do you worry about his integrity and his ability to practice medicine? No you don't.

The fact of the matter is that medical schools need to judge you on who you are now, or have been for the past 5 or so years, not on something you were like twenty years ago and in my humble opinion, it's none of their damn business. However, that said, we all go through the process of spilling everything there is bad about our past and then having to excuse why we did it. I had to disclose some information that I wasn't too happy about. Like I said, sometimes you just need to let things go and not get too excited, especially if they are not important.

I have a feeling that this discussion will not really get anywhere.

 

[Code Brown]

Adding to my previous post, it's all about full/incomplete disclosure. When they ask you what you do for fun, are you going to put down that you play video games, go to the bar, etc? No, you'll be all prim and proper and say that you do X, Y and Z and omit the other stuff. Is this lying on your app? You bet it is.

 

[Damnit Jim!]

After I graduated from college, I took a few advanced bio classes at my local college (in the same state where I graduated but in my hometown). I was burnt out and didn't do so well (2 Cs and 1D).


Thanks - Charmer

You're burnt out on some bio classes and you want to apply to medical school? It sounds like medical school won't be a very pleasant experience. Not trying to be a-hole or anything, just wondering.

 

[medic170]

Let's get something straight here, not reporting a course you took a long time ago is not academic dishonesty. Cheating/Plagirism, this is academic dishonesty. What I'm talking about is leaving skeletons in the closet where they belong. Ever hear the old saying, "Let sleeping dogs lie." That's what this is all about. I'll give yo two scenarios:

1. You find out your doctor cheated on his board exams. Do you worry about his integrity and his ability to practice medicine? Yes you do.

2. You find out that before your doctor decided to enter the medical field, he was a kid who had no direction and so blew off one or two college courses. Fifteen years later, he changed his life around, went back to school, kicked butt, and applied to medical school. He failed to mention his screwing around days when he was young on his application. Do you worry about his integrity and his ability to practice medicine? No you don't.

3. You find out your physician has had his driver's license suspended for too many speeding tickets. Do you worry about his integrity and his ability to practice medicine? No you don't.

The fact of the matter is that medical schools need to judge you on who you are now, or have been for the past 5 or so years, not on something you were like twenty years ago and in my humble opinion, it's none of their damn business. However, that said, we all go through the process of spilling everything there is bad about our past and then having to excuse why we did it. I had to disclose some information that I wasn't too happy about. Like I said, sometimes you just need to let things go and not get too excited, especially if they are not important.

I have a feeling that this discussion will not really get anywhere.

Well, your scenerio 2 describes by experience pretty well. However, I disclosed all of my academic records.

I just do not understand your logic. AMCAS specifically says that you MUST disclose ALL academic records. If a person knowingly does NOT disclose all of their records because some are negative, its no worse than cheeting on an exam ethically speaking. I would absolutley question the integrity of a doctor who knowingly lied to hide some of his or her academic record in order to get into medical school, rather than taking responsibility for past poor decisions. I could hide part of my academic record too, from way back in 1997 when I was young and stupid. Instead of being dishonest, I went back to school, did a post bacc year to get my GPA up, and worked to pay for all of it. If failing to disclose academic records that are specifically requested in order to get an edge up is not academic dishonesty, I don't know what is. Hell, how about everybody just turn in the grades you want calculated and just hide all the rest of the bad ones, why take responsibility for anything.

OP, don't be that guy, take responsibility for everything you have done in your life, good and bad. tell the ADCOM how you learned and matured from the experience, that will get you a lot further than cheating.

 

[medic170]

Adding to my previous post, it's all about full/incomplete disclosure. When they ask you what you do for fun, are you going to put down that you play video games, go to the bar, etc? No, you'll be all prim and proper and say that you do X, Y and Z and omit the other stuff. Is this lying on your app? You bet it is.

They don't ask you to "Name EVERYTHING you EVER do for fun?" But they do ask you for transcripts from EVERY academic institution you EVER attended. That is the difference. Anyway, at my interviews, when they ask what I do for fun, I tell them the truth. If I played video games, I would tell them, and I do tell them that I sometimes go out to the bar with my wife and friends to relax. I think they truly want to hear honesty to get to know you, and they can read right through scripted answers.