Denied disability insurance - now what

[drlard]

I posted this in the General forum but would like to also post it here as I respect a lot of your opinions! I am a graduating resident and unfortunately have been denied disability insurance due to being perceived to be too high of risk. My employer will not provide a group policy. I have a history of short-term depression in college but have not had treatment and have not been on meds for 10 years. Also I have seen the doctor in the past for some back pain and other orthopedic complaints but have never required surgery or treatment other than NSAIDs. The underwriter cited these as the reasons for denying me. This is a HUGE deal for me as I am a single dad and if anything ever happens so that I cannot work, my family will be toast. What options do I have other than the obvious of being super frugal and saving as much as I can in an emergency/disability fund? Thanks.

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[deleted126335]

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[InGasWeTrust]

The other thing is instead of paying premiums take that and invest or partner to start a business. If you are successful, you will have your own stream of income without the headache of relying on disability.

Please note that disability, especially permanent disability is often very difficult to obtain when insured properly. A disturbingly large portion of people that need it often have to hire legal counsel and fight it out with the insurer, all this while your benefits are being denied.

I encourage you to think outside the box.

 

[Pilot Doc]

My employer will not provide a group policy. I

Then you need to change employers. Academics, Kaiser, VA and military come to mind.

 

[amyl]

The other thing is instead of paying premiums take that and invest or partner to start a business. If you are successful, you will have your own stream of income without the headache of relying on disability.

Please note that disability, especially permanent disability is often very difficult to obtain when insured properly. A disturbingly large portion of people that need it often have to hire legal counsel and fight it out with the insurer, all this while your benefits are being denied.

I encourage you to think outside the box.

i have to second this. a family med doc I know diversified in this way as reimbursment for fam med fell and he wasn't making what he wanted to. He bought the building where his offices were and rented the rest out...i think he also invested in a radiology service. A few years later he randomly herniated some cervical disks playing football in the yard with his son and lost fine control of one of his hands (he was a very procedures oriented fam doc, did culposcopies, sigmoidoscopies, minor office surgeries). he is still doing okay without the disability insurance.

 

[sallyjoe]

The other thing is instead of paying premiums take that and invest or partner to start a business. If you are successful, you will have your own stream of income without the headache of relying on disability.

Please note that disability, especially permanent disability is often very difficult to obtain when insured properly. A disturbingly large portion of people that need it often have to hire legal counsel and fight it out with the insurer, all this while your benefits are being denied.

I encourage you to think outside the box.

Disability insurance is all too often a false promise. Insurance companies when faced with writing a big check seldom do the right thing but usually send out their claims examiners, lawyers or in house doctors to deny the claim. The only true insurance is self insurance; when you become an attending continue to live like a resident, save as much as you can, create your own disability insurance policy.

I know of three doctors who were legitimately disabled and were initially denied coverage. They all needed to contact a lawyer to threaten to sue the Insurance Company and fight for a number of years before getting any payment on their disability claim.

I am suggesting that only paying for disability insurance is not enough, At the very least you need to save up enough money to fight the insurance company for two years until they decide to pay your claim.

 

[Pilot Doc]

The other thing is instead of paying premiums take that and invest or partner to start a business.

I encourage you to think outside the box.

Good concept ... bad idea. The whole idea of insurance is to mitgate a large but rare risk. Simply investing the premiums is not going to do the job over a useful time scale. What happens if you get disabled after 3 years and perhaps $20K of premiums diverted to a business - even assuming no downside risk on your investment?

For reasons having nothing to do with disability insurance, it's definitely wise to live well below your means and save aggressively, but to suggest that can make up for going bare is irresponsible.

The OP has two options
1) somehow find disability insurance, even if it requires switching employers
2) accept the devastating but rare risk of disability and attempt to mitigate it by saving aggressively. Let's say your income will average 250K over the next 5 years. If you pay 100K in takes, spend 50K and invest 100K, by 5 years you'll (roughly) have a nest egg that can spin off 50K/yr in perpetuity.

 

[Tenesma]

the odds of disability are higher than you think

live on a residents salary

save/invest as much as possible

invest in opportunities for other financial streams without requiring hardwork on your part (the easiest is owning/renting real estate)

 

[CanGas]

Drlard, check around. In medical school we were all offered personal disability insurance upon graduation with no-health questions asked by a company trying to lock us all in while we were young. Full coverage with own occupation so was not a crappy policy. One of my buddies who had broken his neck TWICE back country skiing and search and rescue was able to get insurance with this policy. Have not seen anything similar for residents but may exist. The key is get something that you can get locked in the be able to ramp up your coverage when income rises.

All you med students take note of this example. You are going to make some serious coin when you graduate so you should protect it. Get a cheap but good policy as an early med student. (I had $1000 per month coverage with own occupation, future income option, cost of living rider, health care rider (if you get HIV or Hep B or C) as a 2nd year med student and am able to increase it to $15,000 per month coverage with proof of income. It was only like $50 per month to lock me in to never having to answer health questions again. You don't want what happened to drlard to happen to you. Who knows, you might get a needle stick with something bad as a student or resident and that's the end of your insurability. You will never be healthier than when you are young. No disability insurance may mean you can't get a loan to start your capital heavy practice (ie. Optho, ect) as the bank wants some income guarantees. This plus a decent 20 year term life (convertible) insurance policy for some reasonable value (ie. $500k) is a cheap way to guarantee you basic coverage while you are insurable.

 

[militarymd]

The AMA offers an OK group policy that is own occ.

 

[joshmir]

hey mil-

have you/somebody you know taken a close look at the AMA-own occ? when I looked at it in '05, it wasn't really own-occ the way Berkshire and Standard were.

plus, the majority of claims are as follows:

1) mental/nervous (including stroke, depression, PTSD, random CMV stuff, benign tremor, pain, addiction, etc).......this is the most common reason physicians file disability, and many companies don't cover this in florida and NY, make sure you ask

2) low back

3) neck

best policies: Standard and Berkshire, followed by Met

I wish I could convince more of my friends/med students that they need to do this...if you ever visit a doctor for knee or foor pain, you'll never be covered for disablility for the whole leg....NEVER allow it to be written down on paper that you went to see a medical provider for insomnia, stress, depression, ADHD, etc, it'll follow you for the rest of your life....

 

[militarymd]

hey mil-

have you/somebody you know taken a close look at the AMA-own occ? when I looked at it in '05, it wasn't really own-occ the way Berkshire and Standard were.

plus, the majority of claims are as follows:

1) mental/nervous (including stroke, depression, PTSD, random CMV stuff, benign tremor, pain, addiction, etc).......this is the most common reason physicians file disability, and many companies don't cover this in florida and NY, make sure you ask

2) low back

3) neck

best policies: Standard and Berkshire, followed by Met

I wish I could convince more of my friends/med students that they need to do this...if you ever visit a doctor for knee or foor pain, you'll never be covered for disablility for the whole leg....NEVER allow it to be written down on paper that you went to see a medical provider for insomnia, stress, depression, ADHD, etc, it'll follow you for the rest of your life....

josh,

I had the AMA's policy in 1999 when I was active duty....it was pretty much the only policy that I could afford...and at that time, it was own-occ only for 5 years...as opposed to my current individual policy with Principal which carries it to age 65.

I had a Berkshire policy in between.

Individual polices cost a lot, but I believe that they are worth it.

For me, the excluded things didn't worry me...menal stuff, depression, etc...so it didn't bother me that they are not covered.

 

[joshmir]

"For me, the excluded things didn't worry me...menal stuff, depression, etc...so it didn't bother me that they are not covered. "

initially that's what I thought, but apparently "mental/nervous" covers a lot of ground beyond just psych stuff......folks should double check me on this to be sure though...