Dental Residency for Foreign Students Primer

[stupidzbu]

I've been doing some very heavy research into this as my wife holds an Argentinian dental license and I didn't want to waste $360k on a IDP/AS program.

I decided to share this primer with the community.. But, before, things you should know:

IDP/AS Programs

1) Are cash cows for dental schools. App fees run around $200/school for just CAAPID and any other extra charges, not including interview fees (NOVA charges $3,000 for their interview)

2) Expect to pay around $1,000-$1,500 per interview (includes airfare, hotel, and possible interview charges)

3) You will get the lowest priority for patients and will be required to produce for the school as you are already a dentist. Priority usually goes towards dental students --> residents --> IDP

4) Most schools are going towards a 3 year IDP program and all charge $120,000 a year. Nova charges $35,000 a year but you have to take the foreign bench as part of the interview process.

5) F1/J1 visa holders can NOT get any kind of government financing (FAFSA/PERKINS) but MAY get private financing IF AND ONLY IF the school grants them access to a Social Security Number on their F1 application (not sure about j1). With that SSN, you will need a US citizen/resident to co-sign on the loan for you. So, unless you have family in the US, expect to pay 100% cash

Reasons to Specialize:

• You DO NOT need a US DDS/DMD to practice in the US.
• Minnesota is the only state in the USA that will grant international dentists a license to practice with no further education. This license is good for 3 years and has to be under the supervision of a US dentist.
• If you are going to invest $360,000 into an education, why get a DDS when you can specialize? Decide what specialty you would like to pursue and get as much experience as possible in that specialty either at school or in private practice. Keep excellent records

What you need:

• You need to submit your transcripts and diploma for a course-by-course evaluation by the ECE. They will then give you a GPA and accept or deny your dentistry license. If they accept it, you can apply to programs, if they deny it, good luck
• Official Dental school transcript translated into English and notarized. All documents require the official notarized seal (ink) and can not be photocopies. Get 1 for PASS and 3 extra copies.
• Official Dental License translated into English and notarized. All documents require the official notarized seal (ink) and can not be photocopies. Get 1 for PASS and 3 extra copies.
• Letters of Recommendation varies with each school, but 3-5 letters are average. Try your best to get them written in English as it will make your life that much easier. PASS will mail out the letters to all the schools for you.
• 2x2 Photos about 6-8 should suffice
• Take and pass NDB 1 & 2 (not required to get in, but will make your life easier)

While you are waiting for all of these materials, call each school and ask:

"Hello, I am a foreign trained dentist and I am planning on applying to your dental specialty programs. Does your school accept a foreign dentist that does not hold a US DDS/DMD and do they offer an ADA-CODA certified specialty certificate upon completion?"

You NEED a CODA certified specialty cert at the end of the program.
Some schools do NOT offer it so make sure before you waste money applying. That certificate will allow you to practice in the US.

Ok, so you ask, what about practicing? What is the point of paying all this money if you can't work?


Some State Rules:

All states require either WREB/NERB/CRDTS or some kind of regional exam to get licensed along with passing NBD 1/2 regardless of specialty.

Nevada: Will grant you a license in your specialty as long as you graduate from an ADA certified program and hold a license in another state.

California: Will grant you a general dentistry license as long as you have worked 5,000 hours over a 5 year period (residency counts for 2 years/2,000 hours) with a valid license in any state. You are then required to serve 2 years in an underserved community and be a full time dental school faculty for 2 years

Michigan: Will grant you a license to practice your specialty by completing any ADA approved specialty.

Massachusetts: Will grant any specialty a limited license to practice dentistry as a faculty at a dental school.

Here is the complete guide for you to reference other states.

Plan of action is simple. Get licensed in Michigan or Massachusetts then get your Nevada license and move to Las Vegas or Reno. Work a couple of years and head to California if you'd like.

Other States Summary from ADA documentation:

Requires two years of post-doctoral education: KY, LA, MD-pediatric dentistry only, MS, TN, TX


Accepts 12-month advanced education program (AEGD, GPR) in general dentistry: VA, WI


Accepts two years of pre-or post-doctoral education: IL, MI, OR, VA, WA, WI

All this information can change every year. You need to call the specific state you are thinking of applying to or consider moving to a different state that will license you and working there.

Once you are licensed and work for 5 years, most states will give you licensure by credentials unless their boards require a DDS/DMD degree from the US. Some do, some don't.

How to finance your education

• Cash. Most of you will not qualify for anything other than cold hard cash
• Get a social security number with your F1 visa. You will not get any kind of government aid, but you may qualify for private bank loans.
• Find a sucker and get married.

Hope this helps someone

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[stupidzbu]

And as an added bonus ... most specialty programs love foreign dentists because of their work ethics.

Your GPA/board scores hardly matter at all. All directors look for clinical experience and your letter of recommendation are the most important part of your application

 

[hammoudeh71]

I've been doing some very heavy research into this as my wife holds an Argentinian dental license and I didn't want to waste $360k on a IDP/AS program.

I decided to share this primer with the community.. But, before, things you should know:

IDP/AS Programs

1) Are cash cows for dental schools. App fees run around $200/school for just CAAPID and any other extra charges, not including interview fees (NOVA charges $3,000 for their interview)

2) Expect to pay around $1,000-$1,500 per interview (includes airfare, hotel, and possible interview charges)

3) You will get the lowest priority for patients and will be required to produce for the school as you are already a dentist. Priority usually goes towards dental students --> residents --> IDP

4) Most schools are going towards a 3 year IDP program and all charge $120,000 a year. Nova charges $35,000 a year but you have to take the foreign bench as part of the interview process.

5) F1/J1 visa holders can NOT get any kind of government financing (FAFSA/PERKINS) but MAY get private financing IF AND ONLY IF the school grants them access to a Social Security Number on their F1 application (not sure about j1). With that SSN, you will need a US citizen/resident to co-sign on the loan for you. So, unless you have family in the US, expect to pay 100% cash

Reasons to Specialize:

• You DO NOT need a US DDS/DMD to practice in the US.
• Minnesota is the only state in the USA that will grant international dentists a license to practice with no further education. This license is good for 3 years and has to be under the supervision of a US dentist.
• If you are going to invest $360,000 into an education, why get a DDS when you can specialize? Decide what specialty you would like to pursue and get as much experience as possible in that specialty either at school or in private practice. Keep excellent records

What you need:

• You need to submit your transcripts and diploma for a course-by-course evaluation by the ECE. They will then give you a GPA and accept or deny your dentistry license. If they accept it, you can apply to programs, if they deny it, good luck
• Official Dental school transcript translated into English and notarized. All documents require the official notarized seal (ink) and can not be photocopies. Get 1 for PASS and 3 extra copies.
• Official Dental License translated into English and notarized. All documents require the official notarized seal (ink) and can not be photocopies. Get 1 for PASS and 3 extra copies.
• Letters of Recommendation varies with each school, but 3-5 letters are average. Try your best to get them written in English as it will make your life that much easier. PASS will mail out the letters to all the schools for you.
• 2x2 Photos about 6-8 should suffice
• Take and pass NDB 1 & 2 (not required to get in, but will make your life easier)

While you are waiting for all of these materials, call each school and ask:

"Hello, I am a foreign trained dentist and I am planning on applying to your dental specialty programs. Does your school accept a foreign dentist that does not hold a US DDS/DMD and do they offer an ADA-CODA certified specialty certificate upon completion?"

You NEED a CODA certified specialty cert at the end of the program.
Some schools do NOT offer it so make sure before you waste money applying. That certificate will allow you to practice in the US.

Ok, so you ask, what about practicing? What is the point of paying all this money if you can't work?


Some State Rules:

All states require either WREB/NERB/CRDTS or some kind of regional exam to get licensed along with passing NBD 1/2 regardless of specialty.

Nevada: Will grant you a license in your specialty as long as you graduate from an ADA certified program and hold a license in another state.

California: Will grant you a general dentistry license as long as you have worked 5,000 hours over a 5 year period (residency counts for 2 years/2,000 hours) with a valid license in any state. You are then required to serve 2 years in an underserved community and be a full time dental school faculty for 2 years

Michigan: Will grant you a license to practice your specialty by completing any ADA approved specialty.

Massachusetts: Will grant any specialty a limited license to practice dentistry as a faculty at a dental school.

Here is the complete guide for you to reference other states.

Plan of action is simple. Get licensed in Michigan or Massachusetts then get your Nevada license and move to Las Vegas or Reno. Work a couple of years and head to California if you'd like.

Other States Summary from ADA documentation:

Requires two years of post-doctoral education: KY, LA, MD-pediatric dentistry only, MS, TN, TX


Accepts 12-month advanced education program (AEGD, GPR) in general dentistry: VA, WI


Accepts two years of pre-or post-doctoral education: IL, MI, OR, VA, WA, WI

All this information can change every year. You need to call the specific state you are thinking of applying to or consider moving to a different state that will license you and working there.

Once you are licensed and work for 5 years, most states will give you licensure by credentials unless their boards require a DDS/DMD degree from the US. Some do, some don't.

How to finance your education

• Cash. Most of you will not qualify for anything other than cold hard cash
• Get a social security number with your F1 visa. You will not get any kind of government aid, but you may qualify for private bank loans.
• Find a sucker and get married.

Hope this helps someone

I am pretty sure a lot of members on SDN will appreciate all the effort u took to introduce your experiences here for other people to benefit from. I believe the fact that you have it in you to lend such an informative helping hand is a great gesture from your side. However, i am gonna have to disagree with you on a few points, besides adding my own to create a clear picture for other readers.

1. A considerable part of your reasoning about how cost in-effective applying to IDP is a little bit subjective and exaggerated. The 360k you're talking about, the 3000 bench exam, and the 3 year program (as you claim that MOST of them have 3 years programs), are all just examples that are only confined to a couple of schools out of more than 25 schools that offer the program. Just like you mentioned that Nova has a 3000 bench test, you should mention that the 360k cost of attendance is only for NYU, cuz most of other schools have a COA of far less than that.

2. I had about 5 interviews for the IDP, i paid less than 2000 for all of them together (And i am giving a safety margin here). So i think 1000 - 1500 for each interview is little bit exaggerated.

3. I think that this patients' prioritizing thing is something u just added to ur post just to make ur case stronger. I dont think anyone here ever heard about that, i know 10 ppl who finished this program and neither of them ever complained of such a thing. As a matter of fact, most of them were the 1st to finish their clinical requirements.

4. Being able to finance your education or not, being a Citizen/PR or not, ability to take loans or not, are all mutual obstacles whether you're applying for IDP or specialty.

5. I dont think you have a clear understanding of the whole picture of the U.S educational system, and how IDP students are Cash Cows for dental schools. Just to let you know, regular students mostly pay between 60-100% the amount of money IDP students pay per year. You have to bear in mind that not only they pay close amounts in most schools, but they pay for 4 years instead of 2. Most of them graduate with loans on their shoulder heavier than those IDP students are burdened with. Not to mention that they have to go thru 7 or 8 years of schooling to achieve that (Some of them might go for master's before dental school just to strengthen their application). So you know what i get from all of this? we're damned lucky to be offered such a program.

6. If you plan to specialize in OMFS, Ortho, or Endo without having to go thru the 2 year DMD/DDS Schooling, then.. i speak on behalf of all SDNers. Good luck on that! But if u're a fan of Perio or Pedo, then thats a different story.

7. I have no idea where you found the fact that MOST u.s states will grant you a license based on credentials even if you dont have a dds/dmd. I think thats a fatal advice to give if you cant support it with official evidence.

8. If you think that after you finish a specialty, and within the VERY LIMITED number of states u may practice in, that you will be treated just like any other regular applicant with the same specialty, u're wrong! If you google job postings now for any dental specialty, u'll find that about 70 - 80% require a dds/dmd. So unless u plan to open your own practice when u graduate - thats an extra 500k loan for opening ur business - then good luck on ur career goals too.

9. You may use whatever resources you want, and try to find out the number of spots in the whole u.s that are offered for IDP applicants versus the number of spots foreign dentists do actually occupy in postgrad training. This should give you an idea about how competitive this process could be, specially if you have a determination for a certain specialty that you have passion for rather than just seeking a mere specialty. You may wanna ask everybody on SDN, and as far as they know, how many times they actually came across someone who got licensed in Minnesota or Massachusetts without additional schooling, and how if there is anyone, who actually went through that pathway u're suggesting about "Minnesota.. then Nevada..then California...then blah blah" and actually made a reality out of it.

I am not trying to create any hostility here, and all the hard wok u put in this post will be appreciated. But most of your points are either speculations or mere expressions of ur own opinion, just like most of my argument (I might be wrong, who knows).

Good luck to you, i wish u and ur wife all the best

 

[stupidzbu]

, you should mention that the 360k cost of attendance is only for NYU, cuz most of other schools have a COA of far less than that.

Umm... no. A lot of the IDP programs used to be 2 year programs, but most switched to 3 year programs. From what I've seen, tuition + kit expense + room & board is calculated at $120k/year ... maybe not ALL international programs charge that much, I can see the midwest being more affordable, but I will stick to the $360k price tag

2. I had about 5 interviews for the IDP, i paid less than 2000 for all of them together (And i am giving a safety margin here). So i think 1000 - 1500 for each interview is little bit exaggerated.

I am assuming travel around the country + hotel + possibly a car + any interview fee

3. I think that this patients' prioritizing thing is something u just added to ur post just to make ur case stronger. I dont think anyone here ever heard about that, i know 10 ppl who finished this program and neither of them ever complained of such a thing. As a matter of fact, most of them were the 1st to finish their clinical requirements.

I've seen it first hand and I've heard of the problem from directors. Private schools tend to be better than public schools dealing with this. your mileage may vary

5. I dont think you have a clear understanding of the whole picture of the U.S educational system

Who cares about undergrad and the US student debt burden? I can tell you that on the west coast, IDP programs charge for 2 years what most schools charge for 4. This is what you might not know. US students are given grants and scholarships.. All dental students get that. I graduated with $180k in debt (should have been $95k but the UC system took a dump my last 2 years) and the IDP students at my school had $240k 😎

7. I have no idea where you found the fact that MOST u.s states will grant you a license based on credentials even if you dont have a dds/dmd. I think thats a fatal advice to give if you cant support it with official evidence.

So you missed the link near the end of my post going directly to an ADA.org PDF that goes through every state's foreign dentist & licensing requirements?

Or did you even read the entire post?

8. If you google job postings now for any dental specialty, u'll find that about 70 - 80% require a dds/dmd.

Actually, no. You are required to have a dental license to practice in the state. No one cares if you have a DDS or DMD, they care if you have a license. The dental board of each state is in charge of figuring out if you are qualified to get licensed. Your employer will verify you have a license. I can 100% guarantee you will always find work if you hold a license

most of your points are either speculations or mere expressions of ur own opinion(I might be wrong, who knows).

I'm going to go ahead and say you are wrong.. 👍 Did you even bother to double check before you blurt out the accusation that everything is just 'my opinion' ??

First, you assume that anyone can just go ahead and apply for any specialty and get in. I never said that. One of my points made clear that you need experience and to document all your cases in a portfolio. Specialties are highly competitive but so are IDP programs.

Second, if you do not want to specialize, go to an IDP program. This is a path for people who know they want to dedicate themselves to a particular aspect of the profession and skip the useless IDP program. You will forever be locked into that specialty and will never be able to perform anything outside of the curriculum, even with CE training. Also, you will limit the states where you can live.

Third, anyone who specializes should have a passion for it. If they don't, chances are they won't get in.

Read the linked resource ... call up the dental boards and prove it to yourself that what I found out and have documented is 100% legit..

I think you may be more mad at the realization that you maybe didn't need to go through an IDP program 😉

 

[stupidzbu]

UAB

Average cost of just tuition: $68,275
Rent + all utilities: $1500/month = $18,000
Car + insurance = $500/month = $6,000
Food + misc expenses = $1000/month = $10,000

Total cost tuition + room & board = about $100k

UOP

COMBINED TOTAL Living & Academic Expenses average = $124,600

BU
Tuition average = $66,000
Rent + all utilities: $2000/month = $24,000
Food + misc expenses = $1500/month = $18,000

Total cost tuition + room & board = about $110k

UPenn
$103k averaged over the last two years when you include the $20k preparatory fee.

These are schools I picked at random. The only exception to this is NOVA that charges $35k/year ... everyone else is around $300-$360k

Why don't you go to the ADEA website for IDP/AS programs and check it out for yourself

Again, $120k/year for tuition, room + board, and all other expenses of, you know, living ...

You will probably pay the same (or sometimes much much less) for a specialty because the room & board + student kit costs are almost always there.

For instance, UAB Prosth is at $15k/year ... Augusta is at $18k/year

USC is at $70k/year ...

either way, if you are going to invest $300-$360k of your money, why not choose a state to live in that gives you a dental license ... and become a specialist?

You will love life better and make more money

 

[hammoudeh71]

Well excuse our ignorance, but can you explain to me and all other members here how most schools switched to 3 years program, and whats the percentage of those schools to the rest of them offering such program?. U know, a lot of ppl here were accepted or already enrolled in an IDP program, it would be a good idea for some of them to know that they might have been fooled in a 3 year program instead!

2nd, i never said u will not get a license in those few states if you dont have a dds/dmd, i said that you would be the last option for employers, and they all prefer a dds/dmd holder, either in family practices, corporate dentistry, or even academics.

Trust me i didnt miss the link, but i didnt have to read it cuz i did long time ago. And u know what, back then i personally contacted most of states' dental boards for this matter, so believe me i know what i am talking about, and i am not waiting for a post on SDN to make me realize i could have specialized without all that hassle!

In regards to what regular students pay nowadaways, u can visit the dental and predental on sdn, and u can visit dentaltown.com... you'll find real numbers there.

Just for the record, the idea of going into specialty without having to go for overwhelming schooling phase was the 1st thing to cross the minds of 90% of IDP applicants. i mean who would leave the chance not to waste more time and loads of money on schooling when they can take it the short way?? Well you know what, DOCUMENTED words of urs turned out to be just a far fetched fantasy. And this"bed of roses" SCENARIO of yours for ending up in california or whatever it is turned out to be too good to be true, at least for the most of it.I know ppl who spent years applying for residencies and never got lucky until they got accepted in IDP programs.. I know ppl who already finished GPR and residencies and now thinking about going back to school for dds.

I am not mad at anything, i am in this because i plan on doing OMFS where the sky is the limit, and thats my only way... unless there's a shorter way that the ADA has unofficially revealed to u that u might wanna share with us.

 

[stupidzbu]

Well excuse our ignorance, but can you explain to me and all other members here how most schools switched to 3

I'm sorry .. not our ignorance .. your ignorance.

Off the top of my head, NOVA used to be 2 years and is not a 3 year and so were a couple of other programs we had looked into, but I'm not going to bother and list them since you obviously have this enormous hostility towards anything i write.

you would be the last option for employers,

Your ignorance in the private sector is shining bright buddy. No one asks for your dental school diploma, they ask for your dental license. No employer cares about your diploma. That is the state board's job. And if you can't understand that, then I'm sorry.

or even academics.

Once you are ADA-CODA certified in a Specialty and can obtain a dental license in any state all states will recognize that license. Most will probably not give you a license to practice in private office, some may give you a limited license for faculty status, few will give you a strict license to practice what you learned in your specialty program.

Deal with the reality of it all. All rules change every year. I know, I worked in dental politics while I was a student.

you'll find real numbers there.

Buddy, tuitions don't change looking somewhere else. Everyone has to pay what is posted on the dental school's tuition guide. If someone decides to shack up in a $300/month apt, great for them. Most housing will run you triple that almost anywhere in the US. Do you not understand the idea of averaging?

Well you know what, DOCUMENTED words of urs turned out to be just a far fetched fantasy.

I have yet to see you point to anything outside of your misconstrued ignorance to show this far fetched fantasy

turned out to be too good to be true, at least for the most of it.

Forgive me. I didn't know that while studying dentistry you somehow managed to bend the freakin TIME SPACE CONTINUUM and come back to tell me how my 5 year plan went! Are you serious?

Do me a favor. Call the CA dental board and ask them this:
"If I do not have a US DDS/DMD and I specialize in a program and get a license in another state, will the state of CA give me a license under licensure by residency?"

They will tell you 1) Yes and 2) you need 5,000 hours of which the residency counts for 2000 and 3) your license will be given if you serve 2 years as full time faculty and 4) work for 2 years in an underserved clinic registered by the Cali board.

How about you call the NV board because they are less congested and ask:
"I am a foreign dentist with no US DDS/DMD. If I graduate from a CODA approved dental specialty and get a license to practice, will the state of nevada issue me a specialty license to work in Nevada?"

Better yet, call MA dental board and ask:
"Does your state grant foreign dentists with a US specialty cert a limited license to practice as a faculty member?"

Or you can try the Michigan board and ask:
"I hold a non-US DDS/DMD and will graduate from an ADA certified specialty program. Will your state grant me a license"

then come back and post your non-sense. Do you think I would have spent time and effort giving out this information if I hadn't checked and double checked, then triple checked?

I'm not some narcissistic know-it-all that claims to have all the answers. You are. I simply wrote a guide to cold hard facts I have found in the last 18 months to share with other interested potential IDP students.

Then you enter with this hostility and claim everything I wrote is make-believe. HAHA. You, my good sir, are a joke.

I know ppl who spent years applying for residencies and never got lucky

So does everyone else man.. so does everyone else. This decision is a very straightforward one. You will be highly limited to the areas where you can practice. If you are OK with that, then great. If you want freedom to move and do whatever you like in your clinic, then go to an IDP program. I never claimed anything other than that.

plan on doing OMFS where the sky is the limit, and thats my only way... unless there's a shorter way that the ADA has unofficially revealed to u that u might wanna share with us.

See, there is your pompous attitude again. Let me spell it out for you kid.

Not all programs accept foreign trained dentists with no DDS/DMD.You have to call each program at each school and figure out if they do. Chances of OMFS accepting non-US DDS/DMDs is very slim because it is already impossible to get into anyways.

I'm not going to do your research for you. I provided the tools, you do the work.

I should have known you were an OS guy ... your attitude oozes even through your words

 

[hammoudeh71]

The only information that your posts show for a fact is how your ID name speaks for itself.

 

[stupidzbu]

The only information that your posts show for a fact is how your ID name speaks for itself.

finally we agree on something...

it's pronounced "stupids be you"

 

[hammoudeh71]

finally we agree on something...

it's pronounced "stupids be you"

Ooops i am sorry i didnt happen to notice the extent of ppl's interest in ur post, i mean those "Thank you" and "u're the man" replies are so overwhelming, u must be so proud now.. oh god i wish i was as good as u r

Get a life

 

[DREDAY]

Ooops i am sorry i didnt happen to notice the extent of ppl's interest in ur post, i mean those "Thank you" and "u're the man" replies are so overwhelming, u must be so proud now.. oh god i wish i was as good as u r

Get a life

I don't understand your hostility towards the OP. In any case, I appreciate his post.

 

[hammoudeh71]

I don't understand your hostility towards the OP. In any case, I appreciate his post.

I did not have any intention of creating hostility. I was clear in my first post that this work of his was appreciated but had a lot of inaccuracies in addition to other dropped out information that were needed to complete the picture. The thread is subjective as the OP believes specializing is much better of a route by comparing the pros of specializing to the cons of idp, that's something I respect yet disagree with and since it's put in public everyone has the right to either approve or criticize.
Anyways I apologize if I had to use such a harsh sarcastic language, maybe after all such hostility had shed more light on both routes so that other ppl can even gain more informative benefits. Again, it's all good that comes out of good intentions, and i still appreciate the effort to start such a thread. No hard feelings everyone

 

[Ninety]

i really appreciate your work and input to SDN, so i am going to put a link to your thread in my signature for some time, so international students can benefit from it

 

[jamiahdent]

👍👍👍

I am pretty sure a lot of members on SDN will appreciate all the effort u took to introduce your experiences here for other people to benefit from. I believe the fact that you have it in you to lend such an informative helping hand is a great gesture from your side. However, i am gonna have to disagree with you on a few points, besides adding my own to create a clear picture for other readers.

1. A considerable part of your reasoning about how cost in-effective applying to IDP is a little bit subjective and exaggerated. The 360k you're talking about, the 3000 bench exam, and the 3 year program (as you claim that MOST of them have 3 years programs), are all just examples that are only confined to a couple of schools out of more than 25 schools that offer the program. Just like you mentioned that Nova has a 3000 bench test, you should mention that the 360k cost of attendance is only for NYU, cuz most of other schools have a COA of far less than that.

2. I had about 5 interviews for the IDP, i paid less than 2000 for all of them together (And i am giving a safety margin here). So i think 1000 - 1500 for each interview is little bit exaggerated.

3. I think that this patients' prioritizing thing is something u just added to ur post just to make ur case stronger. I dont think anyone here ever heard about that, i know 10 ppl who finished this program and neither of them ever complained of such a thing. As a matter of fact, most of them were the 1st to finish their clinical requirements.

4. Being able to finance your education or not, being a Citizen/PR or not, ability to take loans or not, are all mutual obstacles whether you're applying for IDP or specialty.

5. I dont think you have a clear understanding of the whole picture of the U.S educational system, and how IDP students are Cash Cows for dental schools. Just to let you know, regular students mostly pay between 60-100% the amount of money IDP students pay per year. You have to bear in mind that not only they pay close amounts in most schools, but they pay for 4 years instead of 2. Most of them graduate with loans on their shoulder heavier than those IDP students are burdened with. Not to mention that they have to go thru 7 or 8 years of schooling to achieve that (Some of them might go for master's before dental school just to strengthen their application). So you know what i get from all of this? we're damned lucky to be offered such a program.

6. If you plan to specialize in OMFS, Ortho, or Endo without having to go thru the 2 year DMD/DDS Schooling, then.. i speak on behalf of all SDNers. Good luck on that! But if u're a fan of Perio or Pedo, then thats a different story.

7. I have no idea where you found the fact that MOST u.s states will grant you a license based on credentials even if you dont have a dds/dmd. I think thats a fatal advice to give if you cant support it with official evidence.

8. If you think that after you finish a specialty, and within the VERY LIMITED number of states u may practice in, that you will be treated just like any other regular applicant with the same specialty, u're wrong! If you google job postings now for any dental specialty, u'll find that about 70 - 80% require a dds/dmd. So unless u plan to open your own practice when u graduate - thats an extra 500k loan for opening ur business - then good luck on ur career goals too.

9. You may use whatever resources you want, and try to find out the number of spots in the whole u.s that are offered for IDP applicants versus the number of spots foreign dentists do actually occupy in postgrad training. This should give you an idea about how competitive this process could be, specially if you have a determination for a certain specialty that you have passion for rather than just seeking a mere specialty. You may wanna ask everybody on SDN, and as far as they know, how many times they actually came across someone who got licensed in Minnesota or Massachusetts without additional schooling, and how if there is anyone, who actually went through that pathway u're suggesting about "Minnesota.. then Nevada..then California...then blah blah" and actually made a reality out of it.

I am not trying to create any hostility here, and all the hard wok u put in this post will be appreciated. But most of your points are either speculations or mere expressions of ur own opinion, just like most of my argument (I might be wrong, who knows).

Good luck to you, i wish u and ur wife all the best

 

[blissonearth]

thanks for the info....

 

[desperado22]

that was an awsome effort dude
i always wanted to clarify 2 myths regarding aegd
1) there are about 11-17 states which recognize ur aegd and once u pass a license exam u can practice in those states
2)is it true that even if u r allowed to practice in those states u r not allowed to have a private practice of ur own as u ll be working under someone or a gp practice or in a hospital or finally as an academic duty say an attending
pls clarify these myths and aso what do these ppl use in front of their dental offices under their name as they are not dds/dmd so is it dr x ..aegd??