Dentist Anesthesiologist (DDS/DMD) earning/salary potential?

[thelazyvaca]

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[Teeth and Titanite]

I'm gonna say you should cross-post in Dental Residents and Practicing Dentists. Unless medical and dental co-residents kept in touch after residency and shared salary info, medical anesthesiologists are probably not gonna know what is possible in outpatient dental anesthesiology.

However, now that you brought up the difference in practice setting for the two types of anesthesiologists, I'm wondering if dental anesthesiologists are precluded from applying to hospital jobs. Hoping some anesthesiologists here can say if they have any dental anesthesiology attending coworkers!

 

[thelazyvaca]

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[IMGASMD]

I don’t know. But I want to play devils advocate a little and I am sure you’ve thought and been asked about this. After three years of anesthesia residency, are you really a dentist first and foremost? Don’t think you’d be practicing any dentistry during that time. Are you more competitive for a tight job market than say a pediatric anesthesiologist? Who will your employers be? Your fellow dentist who has much less trainings than you? How will you be compensated? I think dentists still have a leg up than other medical professionals because they can operate in cash for service model. I suppose you can do as a dental anesthesiologists (or any of the anesthesiologists who work in office based places….)

I certainly have my bias, but I do find your future practice more fascinating to me in a business intertwine with practice kinda way.

 

[DocVapor]

I do know of an old-timer dental anesthesiologist practicing entirely hospital-based general anesthesia, so the possibility of that is there.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I do know of an old-timer dental anesthesiologist practicing entirely hospital-based general anesthesia, so the possibility of that is there.

Some of the peds dentists in my area use this group for their IV sedations: https://www.ambanes.com/

 

[coffeebythelake]

I do know of an old-timer dental anesthesiologist practicing entirely hospital-based general anesthesia, so the possibility of that is there.

I doubt that would be a thing today except for those old times grandfathered in. Not to slam the training of dentists and dental anesthesiologists, but what you become competent in comes from training, knowledge, repetition and familiarity. Doesn't matter that "back in training" you observed / participated in a couple big trauma cases, critically ill emergencies, or whatever. When your typical dental patients are elective and mostly healthy, you've basically X'ed out a lot of what we do in the hospital ORs.

Cases I don't see a dental anesthesiologist ever doing or having adequate training in: cardiac, vascular, transplant, obstetrics, trauma, ICU, advanced airway management (not the routine DL, nasal intubation, etc), regional other than dental blocks, ultrasound guidance procedures, placing arterial or central lines, or PA catheters, anything involving blood management, any significant use of vasoactive drips, any emergencies in unstable patients, anyone with significant comorbidities for anything more than light sedation ASA 4 or 5s (or 6s). In other words, a vast majority of cases that physician anesthesiologists may deal with.

 

[NVO]

I don't want to downplay the training that DDS/DMD folks get but I will say its not just simplified to being the exact same "minus OB and cardiac". From the few programs I've seen during my interviews for Anesthesia that happen to have DA, the DDS/DMD residents are excluded from any call pool, excluded from the #-out system if it exists (i.e first out, second out, ...last out, etc), and some programs integrate dedicated dental clinic time into the week i.e every Th Fri so they're only in the ORs M-W. Clearly this is enough for non-hospital practice but I'm not sure if many would consider it equivocal and adequate for hospital medicine in today's day and age

 

[thelazyvaca]

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[thelazyvaca]

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[thelazyvaca]

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[GassYous]

If you want to be an anesthesiologist go to medical school

Sick of hearing this "basically the same thing" nonsense

That's how you get dead people with mouths on fire

 

[Hoya11]

Hey folks,

I am a dental student and wanted to seek some information regarding potential earnings of a dentist anesthesiologist. I understand this forum is mainly directed towards medicine, but now that dental anesthesia is an accredited specialty as of recently for us dental folk, there seems to be very few resources on the matter. I know that the nine residencies for DA's are in cahoots with the physician anesthesia residencies and the residents are often used interchangeably -- that hopefully allows me to hope that one of y'all might have some hearsay knowledge on earning potential for dentist anesthesiologists out in the wild.

I understand this question is a shot in the dark as the traditional setting for DA's are outside of a hospital and more so in an ambulatory/mobile setting within the dental world. However, with so little resources on the financials of the field I am only left with an intense interest, and knowledge of everything except for potential earnings. When put blankly into google, a value hovering around "~$200,000 annually" appears, however I have heard that value can be quite understating and not accurate. I have seen values all over the place, so I was just hoping for some real world values if possible!

Thanks for reading!

In my experience, dental anesthesiologists do mostly dental cases. Mostly sedation without an ET tube. Very simple anesthetics in a dental office.

My understanding is that they bill insurance just like regular anesthesiologists bill, and therefore do well. I think 300s is more accurate for annual salary. And keep in mind that's with no call.

Not a bad gig overall.

How are dental anesthesiologists viewed by us/others? That's a different question entirely.

To be honest I think most people think they are dental school drop outs and should be doing strictly dental cases. Beyond that I think you are definitely going to encounter some skepticism from the other people in the field.

 

[Teeth and Titanite]

If you want to be an anesthesiologist go to medical school

Sick of hearing this "basically the same thing" nonsense

That's how you get dead people with mouths on fire

Right, because an anesthesiology residency doesn't make you an anesthesiologist 🙄.

 

[coffeebythelake]

Right, because an anesthesiology residency doesn't make you an anesthesiologist 🙄.

If dental anesthesiologists take our board exams and have the exact same acgme requirements, call schedules, hours, case logs, case variety and complexity, then so be it. Otherwise it isn't the same. 🥱

Or would you like the Websters dictionary definition of what it means to be the "same"? Definition of SAME

 

[Teeth and Titanite]

If dental anesthesiologists take our board exams and have the exact same acgme requirements, call schedules, hours, case logs, then so be it. Otherwise it isn't the same.

I would agree with this. I don't mean to blindly defend dental anesthesiology either, I think its lame that clear info about the specialty isn't available to us dental students. For example, In this thread I'm seeing DA residents don't take call. In other threads, I've heard of DA residents who do take call. Info like this really shouldn't conflict. In any case, I thought the jump to patient deaths was overdramatic, especially when a DA's training is far ahead of a CRNA's.

 

[IMGASMD]

I would agree with this. I don't mean to blindly defend dental anesthesiology either, I think its lame that clear info about the specialty isn't available to us dental students. For example, In this thread I'm seeing DA residents don't take call. In other threads, I've heard of DA residents who do take call. Info like this really shouldn't conflict. In any case, I thought the jump to patient deaths was overdramatic, especially when a DA's training is far ahead of a CRNA's.

Neither groups get the “same” trainings as anesthesiologists, right? Are we going to have a debate on the word “same”? CRNA will/can come back and say they get cardiac and ob rotations. Dental anesthetist (?) Dentist anesthesiologists (?) may get more in sedation (?) trainings.

If there are only 30 of DA a year, I doubt there’s enough oversight to make the trainings standard.

 

[nimbus]

I always had the impression that dentist anesthesiologists working in dental offices have a cash business (check/MasterCard/visa) and make more money per hour and have better lifestyles than physician anesthesiologists taking care of hospital patients. We’ve had a few pediatric anesthesiologists leave to work in dental offices.

 

[narcotics999]

I always had the impression that dentist anesthesiologists working in dental offices have a cash business (check/MasterCard/visa) and make more money per hour and have better lifestyles than physician anesthesiologists taking care of hospital patients. We’ve had a few pediatric anesthesiologists leave to work in dental offices.

A lot of money per pt. However, it is not easy to get enough volume. They often work in multiple dental offices and travel quite a bit.

Don't expect the dental offices to have all the equipment. You may need to bring your own anesthesia machine and emergency cart.

 

[GassYous]

Right, because an anesthesiology residency doesn't make you an anesthesiologist 🙄.

Well one of us has actually finished medical school and anesthesiology residency while the other is in week 11 of dental school

 

[deleted126335]

If dental anesthesiologists take our board exams and have the exact same acgme requirements, call schedules, hours, case logs, case variety and complexity, then so be it. Otherwise it isn't the same. 🥱

Or would you like the Websters dictionary definition of what it means to be the "same"? Definition of SAME

The mid levels’ argument is that “A difference that makes no difference is no difference”.

 

[coffeebythelake]

The mid levels’ argument is that “A difference that makes no difference is no difference”.

And trust their half-assed wit to interpret statistical analysis for what is difference or not

 

[deleted126335]

Trust? Please see my signature.

 

[thelazyvaca]

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[thelazyvaca]

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[thelazyvaca]

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[coffeebythelake]

Thanks for the insight. I am surprised to hear that DA's are looked down upon. I was hoping they were looked at as an advanced clinician in the dental world. At any rate, I don't think I care much about how people view me as long as I feel rewarded.

Dental anesthesiologists have training that fits the role. It is certainly much safer to have a dedicated dental anesthesiologist than to have the operating dentist with the minimal training obtained during dental school to administer sedation themselves, to remain vigilant to depth of anesthesia, and to respond to emergencies.

In this specific dental office based environment, I imagine the ability for dental anesthesiologist to safely deliver the anesthetic would be not significantly different than a physician anesthesiologist.

However.. I would not expect a dental anesthesiologist to be as well knowledgeable about things outside their specific practice environment. That is an immutable truth.. And it would be disingenuous to say dental anesthesiology training is the same as a physician anesthesiologist training.

Not an issue of "looking down upon", simply defining the suitable roles..

 

[IMGASMD]

I am sorry if that is how I came across in the first post. I do love dentistry and anesthesiology, and love the idea of dental related mobile anesthesia. I do not want to be a hospital based anesthesiologist. I do however think you are downplaying and oversimplifying the field of dentistry and dental anesthesiology. It would not be an accredited specialty through the ADA if folks were not benefitting from the clinical presence. I am really sorry if my first post came across negative towards MD anesthesiologists -- it certainly was not my intention to compare the two different fields of dental anesthesiology and MD anesthesiology.

Your audience here is very different than probably what you were expecting. There are practicing anesthesiologists (20 year+), residents (who’ve already done with medical school), some are medical students who are applying or thinking of applying in anesthesia.
I suspect, you’d have to do more leg work and/or contacting more DA by yourself than asking in a speciality forum, who have very different career path than you will have.
Don’t know what year are you, don’t know what grades you have, don’t know how competitive DA actually is….. for dentists.

All that being said, don’t assume something being “accredited” then there “must” be a valid reason for it. As you go on in your career, you will see plenty of bu11sh1t, the only reason it exists is to benefit someone. (Usually ain’t you nor the patient.)

Good luck op.

 

[thelazyvaca]

Your audience here is very different than probably what you were expecting. There are practicing anesthesiologists (20 year+), residents (who’ve already done with medical school), some are medical students who are applying or thinking of applying in anesthesia.
I suspect, you’d have to do more leg work and/or contacting more DA by yourself than asking in a speciality forum, who have very different career path than you will have.
Don’t know what year are you, don’t know what grades you have, don’t know how competitive DA actually is….. for dentists.

All that being said, don’t assume something being “accredited” then there “must” be a valid reason for it. As you go on in your career, you will see plenty of bu11sh1t, the only reason it exists is to benefit someone. (Usually ain’t you nor the patient.)

Good luck op.

Thank ya for the kind words comrade. Hope all the best for you as well!

 

[thelazyvaca]

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[thelazyvaca]

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[IMGASMD]

I am also confused why folks would think they dropped out of dental school when it is a three year residency that comes after the completion of dental school.

Because we are not dentists.

Just like most people aren’t doctors they hear “I am Troy Notanurse from anesthesia.” They assume Troy is an medical doctor who specializes in anesthesia.

 

[Hoya11]

I am also confused why folks would think they dropped out of dental school when it is a three year residency that comes after the completion of dental school.

well because when you enter dental school, the intention is to become a dentist.

if you planned and wanted to do anesthesia, you would have gone to medical school.

so the fact that you went to dental school, then went into something that wasn't really related to dentistry, is a red flag and people think something bad happened. something didn't go according to plan...

the other options for specialization that come after dental school are different. you are still essentially in the specialty of dentistry, like oral surgery, endodontics, prosthodontics, etc... whereas with the DA route, you have left dentistry to be kind of like a CRNA. Not someone respected enough to do major anesthesia cases, but someone competent to do basic sedation. you spent the first 3 years talking about teeth.. then spent 3 years "kind of" doing an anesthesia residency.. so it leaves you with limited applicability to the real world, again not someones plan A

we had DAs train with us at my residency. The cases they got were basic. The training was less intense and less long. Compared to a CRNA I would say they were better and better quality people overall. But certainly not like a true anesthesia residency - again from what I saw...

 

[thelazyvaca]

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